Children's Hospital saying no to new hires who smoke

[eliza61]

For the same reason as they do everything else - economics. I'd imagine some actuary somewhere has run all the numbers and decisions are based on that. For example, it is apparently more costly to our company to provide supplemental health insurance (different in Canada than the US) to families with children and to have employees take parental leaves, than it is to have smokers on staff. Our insurance plan (chosen by the employer) pays for birth control but NOT for smoking cessation therapies.


...and that I could understand and respect but the will of government to take such measures here is practically non-existent. Tobacco taxes are a pretty solid source of revenue - currently over $7/per pack.

I think it's more than economics.

If you are obese, yes there is a cost associated with that but basically you are hurting yourself.
If you smoke, now your addiction also has the capability to hurt everyone else around you and.
If you come into my sons classroom smelling of smoke, you set off his asthma. If you're a nurse and you come in smelling of smoke and you work with someone who has upper respiratory weaknesses or issues, it could be a problem.

It's more than "actuaries". why is scientific proof so hard to believe in this country. Nicotine smoke has direct and vicious health effects on the people who DON'T smoke. smoke and the 7000 toxic chemicals get embedded in clothing, drapery, upholstery, carpeting. That's why hotel rooms charge out the wazoo for cleaning charges if you get caught smoking in a room.

We've had post here on the Dis where parents go into their hotel room and kids get violently ill only to find out the previous vacationer tried the old "I'll smoke on the balcony" trick thinking that the toxins don't get into the room.

I do agree economic controls the cigarette industry. any other substance that was this toxic would already be regulated.

 

[Planogirl]

I can understand why medical facilities would do this but I hope that it doesn't become commonplace at other employers. Smokers need to earn a living too.

I know, they should just quit. If only it was that easy in all cases.

 

[Donnainnj]

My guess is that the employers aren't allowing the gum and patches because that would make it harder if not impossible to test for smoking. A point I always think of when people compare smoking to obesity, you do not have to smoke to live, you do have to eat.

 

[aaarcher86]

My guess is that the employers aren't allowing the gum and patches because that would make it harder if not impossible to test for smoking. A point I always think of when people compare smoking to obesity, you do not have to smoke to live, you do have to eat.

Obese people aren't eating to live.

 

[Donnainnj]

Obese people aren't eating to live.

Not true. They are eating to live and also eating more for other reasons.

 

[aaarcher86]

Not true. They are eating to live and also eating more for other reasons.

Think you missed the point on that one.

 

[low-key]

wow the pendulum has swung way in the direction of the employer, dont let them get the smokers there coming for the rest of us one at a time

 

[Donnainnj]

Think you missed the point on that one.

Not at all. Just making sure my point was clear.

 

[pigletgirl]

I have absolutely seen bank tellers with multiple piercings and tattoos. If a make-up company's written policy was to not hire unattractive salespeople they would get in a heap of trouble. Same with a gym. Can you imagine a gym's advertisement for a receptionist stating "obese people may not apply" because it doesn't fit with their image?

It's called discrimination and it's illegal. Do people discriminate? Of course, that's why we have laws.

Of course it would never say, "Obese persons may not apply" however given the circumstance for the job, it's highly unlikely that someone who was obese would apply.

But in today's world, where diseases are like 90% caused by lifestyle, shouldn't there be a standard for healthcare personnel? It would be pretty hypocritical for the diabetes educator who was 400 lbs to tell someone else to loose weight. It seems harsh but the employer is doing what's best for their company. It's definitely not a race or gender issue. It's a lifestyle problem.

As for new hires, if they hire someone who is at risk, their chances of taking disability early on is somewhat high. They do not want that so they take other initiatives.

If you want to be a flight attendant you need to fall within very specific guidelines to be hired on. I don't think they're intending to discriminate against obese, short, or tall folks. They're doing what they need to do to find the right person for the job.

It's just what it is.

 

[luvsJack]

How long after smoking or using a patch or chewing the gum would a person test positive?

I smoke. Our campus is tobacco free. And for some of the points you all have made:

1. I do not cost our insurance more nor do I take more sick days. My coworker is diabetic. She has many more claims than I do and is sick more often. She also had both knees replaced and is obese which has caused other joint and nerve problems. And other employees in other departments have had as many or claims than she has had.

2. I do not take more breaks. I take 2 a day and lunch. Same as everyone else. I do have to leave campus but am not gone 10 minutes.

Now, with that said, the smell on clothing is an issue and I can understand that being an issue in a medical facility. The problem is that if their spouse or so smokes, they may very well still have the smell of smoke on them.

I don't disagree with the hiring policy. I just wonder how well it will actually have the results they are seeking.

 

[Happy Snowman]

How long after smoking or using a patch or chewing the gum would a person test positive?

I smoke. Our campus is tobacco free. And for some of the points you all have made:

1. I do not cost our insurance more nor do I take more sick days. My coworker is diabetic. She has many more claims than I do and is sick more often. She also had both knees replaced and is obese which has caused other joint and nerve problems. And other employees in other departments have had as many or claims than she has had.

2. I do not take more breaks. I take 2 a day and lunch. Same as everyone else. I do have to leave campus but am not gone 10 minutes.

Now, with that said, the smell on clothing is an issue and I can understand that being an issue in a medical facility. The problem is that if their spouse or so smokes, they may very well still have the smell of smoke on them.

I don't disagree with the hiring policy. I just wonder how well it will actually have the results they are seeking.

Ask your HR department which class of workers is the most expensive....just because you do not go to the dr or take extra time doesn't mean smokers on the whole don't.

 

[Colleen27]

How long after smoking or using a patch or chewing the gum would a person test positive?

The only answer I've ever seen is "it depends" - on the testing method, on the duration of the habit, of how much the person uses. And ironically those who don't smoke but are exposed second-hand are less efficient about processing it out of their system. So while a smoker can take anywhere from 1 to 10 days for a clean test it can take up to 20 in "passive" (second-hand) smokers.

 

[pigletgirl]

How long after smoking or using a patch or chewing the gum would a person test positive?

I smoke. Our campus is tobacco free. And for some of the points you all have made:

1. I do not cost our insurance more nor do I take more sick days. My coworker is diabetic. She has many more claims than I do and is sick more often. She also had both knees replaced and is obese which has caused other joint and nerve problems. And other employees in other departments have had as many or claims than she has had.

2. I do not take more breaks. I take 2 a day and lunch. Same as everyone else. I do have to leave campus but am not gone 10 minutes.

Now, with that said, the smell on clothing is an issue and I can understand that being an issue in a medical facility. The problem is that if their spouse or so smokes, they may very well still have the smell of smoke on them.

I don't disagree with the hiring policy. I just wonder how well it will actually have the results they are seeking.

I know from the system that I'm talking it about is that it if someone is trying to apply for a position and they smoke they have a 6 month waiting period before applying again.

For the employees who were "grandfathered in" so to speak, have to take mandatory smoking cessation classes if they want to keep their job.

 

[ronandannette]

I know from the system that I'm talking it about is that it if someone is trying to apply for a position and they smoke they have a 6 month waiting period before applying again.

For the employees who were "grandfathered in" so to speak, have to take mandatory smoking cessation classes if they want to keep their job.

Take the classes or actually quit smoking? Is there a point at which they are terminated if they don't quit? Is the prohibition against nicotine replacement therapies also in place? I've quit before and could do it again if motivated but I'm not sure I'd even venture to try without nicotine replacement.

 

[BlovesC]

My issue (as a unit assistant manager) isn't the health issues, etc. It's the breaks the smokers take.

So tell them they can't have the breaks.

I don't know any smokers that can tolerate going 12+ hours without a cigarette. It sounds great in theory though.

Most sensible contributions to this thread, and everyone is ignoring them in favor of debating BMI.

 

[JoeA]

I have to assume they'll follow this through and stop hiring overweight people, too, while banning their current overweight employees from eating anything intended to help with weight loss? Perhaps Monday morning lipid panels are in order to see if anyone indulged in fatty foods over the weekend. Because... Health.

That was my first thought, too. We had a state senator that was going "nazi" on trying to shut everything smoking related down, including cigar stores.

She was very overweight and i sent a lot of stats on the effects of obesity and asked if she was really concerned for our health would tackle that problem with equal vigor. I got no response, of course.

 

[luvsJack]

Ask your HR department which class of workers is the most expensive....just because you do not go to the dr or take extra time doesn't mean smokers on the whole don't.

Our campus is not that big. I can name all the smokers. As a whole that isn't true, for our group of people. And obesity isn't necessarily more so either. That's just the one person, I didn't mean to suggest that.

 

[luvsJack]

I don't know any smokers that can tolerate going 12+ hours without a cigarette. It sounds great in theory though.

Most really can, its just what they get used to. We have instructors that smoke and have to go to clinicals with students. While at the hospital for 12 or more hours, they don't smoke. It can be a struggle to get used to but once you get used to it, not too much of an issue.

 

[ReneeA]

Most really can, its just what they get used to. We have instructors that smoke and have to go to clinicals with students. While at the hospital for 12 or more hours, they don't smoke. It can be a struggle to get used to but once you get used to it, not too much of an issue.

Why not quit then? Seriously, if it's really not a big deal to go a half of a day without ONE cigarette, why not save your money, time, and health and quit.

Oh yeah...because it really is an addictive substance and NOT that easy for the vast majority to go without it for 12-13 hours. Otherwise, it would be a piece of cake to quit...and we all know that is not the case.

 

[eliza61]

Most really can, its just what they get used to. We have instructors that smoke and have to go to clinicals with students. While at the hospital for 12 or more hours, they don't smoke. It can be a struggle to get used to but once you get used to it, not too much of an issue.

really? I wish that was the case at my site but I'm not in a hospital setting. every smoker here is outside at least every 2 hours lighting up. Heck I laugh when I go to the Phillies game, you see all the smokers penned up in the smoking area. Hundreds of them, they can't even make it through a baseball game.

How is it then that people become 2 pack a day smokers. No way are you going through 40 cigarettes in a short period of time?

My mom was a three pack a day smoker of lucky strikes (uggh no filter) when she had to stop in order to come around my kids it was brutal but I was not exposing my kids to those toxins. and even if she didn't smoke in the house, she would have to leave after a little more than an hour, then come back in the house reeking of smoke.