Children in opposite gender bathrooms

[Pookasaurus]

Question -
People keep pointing to Cel's (and others) safety concerns as being ridiculous and irrational......

But why do we have separate bathrooms anyway? Why is it such a big thing? Do you have separate gender bathrooms at home?

Common reasons cited ala various engines - safety of course. Because those big neanderthal men just aren't going to be to contain themselves while in proximity to our delicate exposed flowers as we're expelling the waste from our bodies.

Big one - Cleanliness - Because those big men are just disgusting, gross pigs who pee all over everything and mark their territories! Pee EVERYWHERE! The mens room is surely a cesspool of feces and pee and germs and all the disgustingness that is a man. ew!!!!! I mean us women are just so dainty and delicate when hovering above the seat splashing all over and refusing to wipe it up because - well duh - you weren't willing to touch the seat in the first place. Oh, and of course, women don't poop so I"m sure none of us have ever encountered a floater in the ladies.

In actuality - One of the main reasons they came into existence is actually efficiency - men don't want to have to wait in the long lines us ladies cause by taking much longer to tend to our business in addition to space issues - a mens room can be smaller given urinals.


Now don't get me wrong - I'm perfectly fine with the situation personally. The smell of urinal cakes makes me gag and more for primping and prep do I prefer the bathrooms separate. As far as my kids, I'll continue to evaluate a situation as it arises and do what is best for myself, my kids, and the general public less I be judged (impossible). I'm just trying to point how how positively ridiculous this has become.

For those claiming that boys going in the ladies room with mom is "limiting their personal freedom and growth" or failing to teach them "life skills" - what about when your girls encounter a unisex bathroom? Hope they're able to make it through the experience with minimal psychological trauma.
(note tongue and cheek - my issues here lie less in the topic and more in how crappy women are to each other and completely non-understanding and selfish mothers are to other mothers who may make different decisions for their families - it is disgusting).

As for the person who suggested waiting to use the handicap stall? I'd be careful on that one! I do recall a similar debate about non-handicap people using the handicap stall on these very boards! Almost as shameful as the act of peeing itself!

Moral of this story - you can't win against the keyboard warriors who have little to do than pick apart everyone else at disney (et al) for being bad bad people and enjoying their trips in a different way other than your own.
Bring on the hate!

 

[cattywampus]

Fact of the matter is that I'm going to do what I think is right for my child. I will be as respectful as I can of others feelings (as is always appropriate), but that does not include swaying me from the decision I believe is right for the safety of my child.

I couldn't give a rats behind about what someone else thinks about my parenting.

 

[cel_disney]

Where exactly did you grow up? Very few states actually have laws against that, most leave it to a general child neglect guideline, and 8 is typically totally fine to be a lone for a few minutes. (I wouldn't leave the 4 year old alone, obviously) If you grew up in MA (the location in your name box), rest assured you can indeed leave your 8 year old in the car to grab a pizza. http://www.mass.gov/courts/case-legal-res/law-lib/laws-by-subj/about/childabusefaq.html

Yes. I know the laws for my state AND the state that I grew up in and visit my parents frequently at. The laws there are not the same there as in MA. Similar to car seat laws, every state IS different.

 

[aaarcher86]

Question - People keep pointing to Cel's (and others) safety concerns as being ridiculous and irrational...... But why do we have separate bathrooms anyway? Why is it such a big thing? Do you have separate gender bathrooms at home? Common reasons cited ala various engines - safety of course. Because those big neanderthal men just aren't going to be to contain themselves while in proximity to our delicate exposed flowers as we're expelling the waste from our bodies. Big one - Cleanliness - Because those big men are just disgusting, gross pigs who pee all over everything and mark their territories! Pee EVERYWHERE! The mens room is surely a cesspool of feces and pee and germs and all the disgustingness that is a man. ew!!!!! I mean us women are just so dainty and delicate when hovering above the seat splashing all over and refusing to wipe it up because - well duh - you weren't willing to touch the seat in the first place. Oh, and of course, women don't poop so I"m sure none of us have ever encountered a floater in the ladies. In actuality - One of the main reasons they came into existence is actually efficiency - men don't want to have to wait in the long lines us ladies cause by taking much longer to tend to our business in addition to space issues - a mens room can be smaller given urinals. Now don't get me wrong - I'm perfectly fine with the situation personally. The smell of urinal cakes makes me gag and more for primping and prep do I prefer the bathrooms separate. As far as my kids, I'll continue to evaluate a situation as it arises and do what is best for myself, my kids, and the general public less I be judged (impossible). I'm just trying to point how how positively ridiculous this has become. For those claiming that boys going in the ladies room with mom is "limiting their personal freedom and growth" or failing to teach them "life skills" - what about when your girls encounter a unisex bathroom? Hope they're able to make it through the experience with minimal psychological trauma. (note tongue and cheek - my issues here lie less in the topic and more in how crappy women are to each other and completely non-understanding and selfish mothers are to other mothers who may make different decisions for their families - it is disgusting). As for the person who suggested waiting to use the handicap stall? I'd be careful on that one! I do recall a similar debate about non-handicap people using the handicap stall on these very boards! Almost as shameful as the act of peeing itself! Moral of this story - you can't win against the keyboard warriors who have little to do than pick apart everyone else at disney (et al) for being bad bad people and enjoying their trips in a different way other than your own. Bring on the hate!

We don't have separate bathrooms at home - but we do have 3 - no need for an audience while anyone is in there. I don't really get the issue. Some things we do are private. Doesn't mean there's anything wrong or shameful with those things. Hell, even I'd be a but uncomfortable doing business with some strange man next to me.

At least here, I've never encountered a unisex bathroom other than the single toilet ones which would be a non issue anyway. If a unisex bathroom was all that was available, I'd explain it. My youngest would probably be uncomfortable but deal. My oldest being ASD would claim she didn't have to go, and hold it, which would end up in her peeing her pants or getting a bladder infection (both have happened). Where are all these unisex and gender shared bathrooms people keep mentioning?

I honestly can't even address anything else since it's all so far into left field. Complaining about the posts and then mocking and making fun of posters and their opinions. Not hypocritical at all.

 

[Gracie09]

We don't have separate bathrooms at home - but we do have 3 - no need for an audience while anyone is in there. I don't really get the issue. Some things we do are private. Doesn't mean there's anything wrong or shameful with those things. Hell, even I'd be a but uncomfortable doing business with some strange man next to me.

At least here, I've never encountered a unisex bathroom other than the single toilet ones which would be a non issue anyway. If a unisex bathroom was all that was available, I'd explain it. My youngest would probably be uncomfortable but deal. My oldest being ads would claim she didn't have to go, and hold it, which would end up in her peeing her pants or getting a bladder infection (both have happened). Where are all these unisex and gender shared bathrooms people keep mentioning?

I honestly can't even address anything else since it's all so far into left field. Complaining about the posts and then mocking and making fun of posters and their opinions. Not hypocritical at all.

Pretty much this, except instead of peeing herself or ending up with a bladder infection by foster daughter would have had a complete meltdown, including self harm for the fun of it, that if we were lucky would take hours for her to recover from but likely the rest of the day. We then would have to spend the next few days planning our days to avoid the offending bathroom and hoping she would use the other bathrooms, and maybe have an extra therapy session or two.

Please someone show be a picture of these wonderful unisex bathrooms with multiple stalls and urinals.

 

[maxiesmom]

I am an educator, and find this whole argument a bit over the top. Not that I am in favor of unisex restrooms personally, but they are becoming more common. At some point, can we accept we are all people with "private" parts. We all have to pee. We just don't look at someone else peeing, we respect their privacy. I think anyone who is offended by a little girl who might be watching them pee could go ahead and find a private restroom or stall themselves. Seriously peeps, who cares?

We all have private parts but they are not all the same. I wouldn't be on board with unisex restrooms any more than I would be on board with unisex changing rooms. Well, I might be on boards if they would make each stall a solid wall top to bottom with no gaps at all. But I've seen very few restrooms like that. And then wouldn't the problem be you couldn't leave your child out of your stall, for fear some man would grab them? Many moms would then be forced to take all of their children into the stall with them, to keep them away from strange men.

I don't think men would be on board either, unisex restrooms would mean an end to urinals, so their waits would become much longer than what they have now.

 

[wilkeliza]

I've been to a few places that have unisex bathrooms here in NYC. It doesn't bother anyone. It isn't a place where lines tend to form so there was really no issue with being surrounded by "strange men". However, since it is a pub I would also suspect it isn't the type of place kids go either. I've also been to resteraunts here in NYC with unisex bathrooms due to space. In both cases the stall door went the full length and was more like the bathroom door you would have at home. Many of them also had sinks in the stall with them. When you can decided between 2 bathrooms for each sex or 6 unisex a lot of places here go with unisex now.

 

[Pookasaurus]

We don't have separate bathrooms at home - but we do have 3 - no need for an audience while anyone is in there. I don't really get the issue. Some things we do are private. Doesn't mean there's anything wrong or shameful with those things. Hell, even I'd be a but uncomfortable doing business with some strange man next to me.

At least here, I've never encountered a unisex bathroom other than the single toilet ones which would be a non issue anyway. If a unisex bathroom was all that was available, I'd explain it. My youngest would probably be uncomfortable but deal. My oldest being ASD would claim she didn't have to go, and hold it, which would end up in her peeing her pants or getting a bladder infection (both have happened). Where are all these unisex and gender shared bathrooms people keep mentioning?

I honestly can't even address anything else since it's all so far into left field. Complaining about the posts and then mocking and making fun of posters and their opinions. Not hypocritical at all.

While I am going around mapping the unisex bathrooms I encounter, could you also map the facilities that don't have stalls and would result in a "strange man next to you" while you potty? I actually have encountered a bathroom without stalls, but it was under construction and thus an anomaly

Also, perhaps you are not clear on the definition of hypocritical so I will help you:
adjective
1.
of the nature of hypocrisy, or pretense of having virtues, beliefs, principles, etc., that one does not actually possess:
"The parent who has a “do what I say and not what I do” attitude can appear hypocritical to a child."

My issue lies in Mothers belittling other mothers for different parenting styles or needs, which you have done. I have only addressed the issue of how awful that is, a belief I clearly do posses and I have yet to tell you or anyone else you are wrong for choosing not to take your boys (assuming you had one) into the ladies. Only one thing I posted, if taken out of context and if removing my disclaimer posted with it regarding it being a tongue and cheek comment to prove a point rather than judge, could even remotely be considered hypocritical and there are a few ifs that need to be considered to reach said conclusion.
Now, if I were to perhaps say that as a mother you are failing to teach your daughter "life skills" (your words, not mine) by sheltering her rather than coaching her through situations that instead result in embarrassment by publicly wetting herself or worse - jeopardizing her health by causing bladder infections - then maybe that could be considered hypocritical, but then I didn't do that

 

[mjkacmom]

completely non-understanding and selfish mothers are to other mothers who may make different decisions for their families - it is disgusting[/B]).

To me, the selfish mothers are those who put their own feelings of being uncomfortable with a situation (like letting 8 year old boys use the mens room) ahead of women and girls who might be made to feel uncomfortable in the restroom they are supposed to be in. Maybe not having daughters makes it harder to understand.

As for unisex bathrooms, they are rare. I've seen an article several times on Facebook, stating things that those outside our country can't understand (cheese in a can, saluting the flag every day in school, talking so loud...), and one of them is the fact that public restrooms here are so not private, with a lot of space between the door and sides. Which is true!

Dd18 lives in a unisex dorm - guys across the hall, guys, next door - and there are no unisex bathrooms.

 

[Gracie09]

I've been to a few places that have unisex bathrooms here in NYC. It doesn't bother anyone. It isn't a place where lines tend to form so there was really no issue with being surrounded by "strange men". However, since it is a pub I would also suspect it isn't the type of place kids go either. I've also been to resteraunts here in NYC with unisex bathrooms due to space. In both cases the stall door went the full length and was more like the bathroom door you would have at home. Many of them also had sinks in the stall with them. When you can decided between 2 bathrooms for each sex or 6 unisex a lot of places here go with unisex now.

I think those would be one person bathrooms that people are talking about as the usual unisex bathroom. The Starbucks near me has two bathrooms. Separate rooms with a locking door and a sink. There isn't even a divider for the toilet and the sink. Its its own room so to speak. Its not row of stalls and urinals with people waiting outside.

 

[Pookasaurus]

And my point is that it is not that cut and dry. And why is the woman in the ladies room's feelings more important than the other woman - the mother of the boy? It is not "illegal" for an 8 year old boy at Disney to use a ladies room with his mother. It is not against park policy. Another poster stated that speaking with Disney they said that under 10 is fine with them, though that cannot be confirmed. I could not find any policy either way.

And what about a single (or unattended) mother with a special needs boy? Who cannot sit unattended on a bench in a theme park for 10-15 minutes alone? Should that mother and son not be allowed to go to Disney? Or forced to wet himself or herself (depending who has to go) in the event the "companion" bathroom is not easily accessible?

Furthermore, I have never seen anyone on the "I take my boy to the bathroom" side call those on the other Hovering, helicopter parent, failing to teach life skills, limiting growth, development, peeping tom, etc. or whatever the equivalent on the other side of the spectrum. Never mind the consistently belittling others for their fears and concerns.

For the record - I very much prefer to NOT take my 7yo in the ladies. Its a judgement call when the situation arises. And luckily I have my husband with me at Disney so the chances of you encountering him there is slim to none. Doesn't mean I wouldn't do it if necessary though.

Okay I've had enough of the dump debate so I'll just leave you all with this - I'd suggest it so you don't offend or make any one uncomfortable with the act we, as ladies, do not do:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKLnhuzh9uY

and I share that in good spirit.

Until we meet in the bathroom, perhaps you'll meet my son, too....

 

[wilkeliza]

I think those would be one person bathrooms that people are talking about as the usual unisex bathroom. The Starbucks near me has two bathrooms. Separate rooms with a locking door and a sink. There isn't even a divider for the toilet and the sink. Its its own room so to speak. Its not row of stalls and urinals with people waiting outside.

I have never seen a unisex bathroom where urinals are out in the open to be used. It is hard to explain the ones I've been to because some just have individual stalls (no urinals) but the sinks are out in the open so men and women wash their hands next to each other but no one knows what anyone is doing in the stalls because the doors are solid.

The other ones also had like sitting areas and even sinks so that people who might need to freshen up (wash hands before meal etc) didn't have to wait for a stall.

 

[aaarcher86]

While I am going around mapping the unisex bathrooms I encounter, could you also map the facilities that don't have stalls and would result in a "strange man next to you" while you potty? I actually have encountered a bathroom without stalls, but it was under construction and thus an anomaly Also, perhaps you are not clear on the definition of hypocritical so I will help you: adjective 1. of the nature of hypocrisy, or pretense of having virtues, beliefs, principles, etc., that one does not actually possess: "The parent who has a “do what I say and not what I do” attitude can appear hypocritical to a child." My issue lies in Mothers belittling other mothers for different parenting styles or needs, which you have done. I have only addressed the issue of how awful that is, a belief I clearly do posses and I have yet to tell you or anyone else you are wrong for choosing not to take your boys (assuming you had one) into the ladies. Only one thing I posted, if taken out of context and if removing my disclaimer posted with it regarding it being a tongue and cheek comment to prove a point rather than judge, could even remotely be considered hypocritical and there are a few ifs that need to be considered to reach said conclusion. Now, if I were to perhaps say that as a mother you are failing to teach your daughter "life skills" (your words, not mine) by sheltering her rather than coaching her through situations that instead result in embarrassment by publicly wetting herself or worse - jeopardizing her health by causing bladder infections - then maybe that could be considered hypocritical, but then I didn't do that

Uh, sure. A man in the stall next to me - so basically every bathroom. I thought that was obvious (I guess to any rational person) since I haven't encountered a bathroom without stalls where I could play party cake with my neighbor. It's really that hard to mention where you've encountered all these unisex bathrooms? Someone a post or two did so pretty easily in one or two sentences.

I have absolutely given my opinion on teaching life skills, however, I don't think I've done so in a belittling manner such as yourself. If the particular poster I asked a question to directly was offended, they're welcome to say so and I'll apologize. It's been back a d forth, but civil for the most part, IMO. You're complaining about belittling WHILE doing the same thing.

However, to stop you from showing any additional ignorance, ASD is autism spectrum disorder. I'll assume you didn't know that when you mention coaching my oldest through situations, because some that did would know that autism doesn't work that way.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Here is one of the articles about the incident at Logan Airport that I keep referencing that caused us to rethink our family policy. Some articles speak more about the interaction with him and the woman in the bathroom but this one covers more about what he did to the man outside. Its unclear how many times the man had done this before falling.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/11/2...iling-at-logan-airport-restroom-then-attacks/

I could care less about some crazy person watching us - thats really the least of my worries. Its the physical beating that I dont believe my kids could deal with alone.

And what do all of you who are so worried about this do when a transgendered person uses the rest room? Do they also need to share a stall with their mom because they may not look the part? It sounds like those young girls that keep getting referenced here need to be warned.

Clearly there is no pleasing everyone, so we will continue with our current approach until we have a family strategy to help our 8 year old in an environment like the one above. Where I grew up, I cant even leave him in the car while dropping off my daughter at daycare or while picking up pizza or getting cash without being arrested if caught. Its nonsensical for my 4 year old to be in the stall alone next to me and my 8 year old to come into the stall with me because of his gender.

And yet - this is an adult male in the ceiling of a womens' restroom. Nothing about anybody peeping on or attacking the male children of whom so many of you appear so overprotective.

 

[aaarcher86]

And my point is that it is not that cut and dry. And why is the woman in the ladies room's feelings more important than the other woman - the mother of the boy? It is not "illegal" for an 8 year old boy at Disney to use a ladies room with his mother. It is not against park policy. Another poster stated that speaking with Disney they said that under 10 is fine with them, though that cannot be confirmed. I could not find any policy either way. And what about a single (or unattended) mother with a special needs boy? Who cannot sit unattended on a bench in a theme park for 10-15 minutes alone? Should that mother and son not be allowed to go to Disney? Or forced to wet himself or herself (depending who has to go) in the event the "companion" bathroom is not easily accessible? Furthermore, I have never seen anyone on the "I take my boy to the bathroom" side call those on the other Hovering, helicopter parent, failing to teach life skills, limiting growth, development, peeping tom, etc. or whatever the equivalent on the other side of the spectrum. Never mind the consistently belittling others for their fears and concerns. For the record - I very much prefer to NOT take my 7yo in the ladies. Its a judgement call when the situation arises. And luckily I have my husband with me at Disney so the chances of you encountering him there is slim to none. Doesn't mean I wouldn't do it if necessary though. Okay I've had enough of the dump debate so I'll just leave you all with this - I'd suggest it so you don't offend or make any one uncomfortable with the act we, as ladies, do not do: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKLnhuzh9uY and I share that in good spirit. Until we meet in the bathroom, perhaps you'll meet my son, too....

I was the one who stated that and it's not a listed policy. I emailed guest relations after a mother of a special needs boy had done the same and received the same response. I just wanted to confirm, because that actually shocked me. They suggested the companion restrooms, which are there for that very reason. I personally think a special needs child isn't comparable (not that you'd know, since you compared mine to the norm). You're welcome to email them yourself to inquire if you're curious. The fact Disney would need to post the policy on a website for an age limit on going in the opposite gender bathroom makes me weep for humanity. Some things just shouldn't have to be laid out. I'd like to think the ladies trying to shove a 10 year old into the women's restroom are few and far between.

You appear to be new here. I'd search these threads. They pop up probably once every few months and there's plenty of mud slinging from both sides. Plenty. But this thread, pretty civil.

 

[kreckl]

Why the nastiness here? Wow. Everyone is just making a personal choice about what they feel is best for their child. Is it really that big of a deal?

 

[Pookasaurus]

Le sigh - to assume makes an... well then you know how that goes.

ASD, no idea what that meant before you mentioned it. It surely never came up during my education in which I graduated with honors and distinction with a major in, oh what was it - ah yes, psychology. And surely it didn't come up in the multiple IEP meetings I attend nor was it ever mentioned during the FBA I just finished filling out a BASC-2 for or the SPM I am turning in tomorrow. By now, assuming you actually know what those acronyms stand for - you are realizing you made a very, very, false assumption. Two actually. The first about where I was coming from in my stance on this thread which wasn't personal, and the 2nd a very personal assumption about myself, and my kids. As for your 2nd post - Clearly I do know.

Take this as a very valuable life lesson. A new "life skill" to be learned - judgments and assumptions based on a very small picture that is presented to you - words on a message board, a seemingly healthy boy in the ladies room, a very tall child in a stroller - get you little further than sitting there with your foot in your mouth.

As for the "You appear to be new here" - that matters how? And a simple post search would see my initial postings being made in 2010. Just because I have a low post count and don't spend my days racking up the number to feel almighty doesn't mean I haven't been around.

And with all the evils in the world - children starving, two dead in Sydney, beheadings, war - it is a boy under 10 using the washroom with his mom in Disney World that causes you to "weep for humanity"? Really?

As for unisex bathrooms - Various bars, restaurants, etc. Bathrooms at gas stations with stalls both locally and in my travels from Chicago to Orlando, local amusement park, concert, theater, and the fair off the top of my head.

I have now been called a mother who failed to teach my child life skills, ignorant, irrational, newbie, and a hypocrite. How many things have I called you? Have I pointed out your hypocrisy, yes. Called you a hypocrite, no.
Any other names you want to call me? Go at it. I'm sure it will make you feel better about yourself and you clearly need that more than me.

Stick a fork in me...

 

[maxiesmom]

Why the nastiness here? Wow. Everyone is just making a personal choice about what they feel is best for their child. Is it really that big of a deal?

It is when that personal choice has a negative effect on others. Plus there is a way for that personal choice to be adjusted so that it doesn't have a negative effect on others, yet that solution is scoffed at. Apparently the only ones that are supposed to make adjustments are the ones without young male children.

 

[DopeyDame]

How many little girls are in the men's restrooms? How many preteen girls are in the mens rooms? I'm asking seriously - not being snarky.

Certainly there are times when dads are traveling with their 8, 9, and 10 year daughters. Do they bring the girls into the mens room with them? How do the girls react? How do the men react? If they don't do that, why are the girls somehow safer waiting outside for dad or going to the restroom by themselves than the boys of that age? Why is it that this only comes up with boys in womens rooms?

My DD is 2. My Dh has occasionally brought her into the mens room. I can't begin to imagine that he or she would feel comfortable doing that when she's 8.

 

[cel_disney]

It is when that personal choice has a negative effect on others. Plus there is a way for that personal choice to be adjusted so that it doesn't have a negative effect on others, yet that solution is scoffed at. Apparently the only ones that are supposed to make adjustments are the ones without young male children.

Every child deserves a safe, clean, and private stall when they need to use the bathroom facilities if they are physically able to use the stall on their own.

Whether the boy is in the stall with a parent or his own stall, apparently the pre-teen girls will be mortified anyway since he is in the restroom facility, so there is no need to change the behavior that will now inconvenience the girls and the boy (and his mother) by making him share a stall with his adult female supervision (parent, grandparent, whomever).

See the forest thru the trees people - 142 kids were shot yesterday...safety is a concern here to stay.