Child support wage reporting.

[ols386]

No one said "most". No one is trying to make the case that most deadbeat parents are victims - most are scum. But there are exceptions, and the way that judges tend to treat non-custodial parents can lead to disturbing results. They are not ATM machines. They are human beings, trying to live and love and build a future just like the custodial parents.

I agree. There are exceptions, and probably more than we are aware of.

The other thing about non-custodial parents not paying child support is that eventually it will/can catch-up with them. Law enforcement will issue warrants for their arrest, and their driver's licenses can be taken away, and if they eventually are entitled to receive a pension, that can be taken away, and the pension amount, or at least a portion of it, will be paid out to friend of the court or whomever.

 

[tasha99]

No one said "most". No one is trying to make the case that most deadbeat parents are victims - most are scum. But there are exceptions, and the way that judges tend to treat non-custodial parents can lead to disturbing results. They are not ATM machines. They are human beings, trying to live and love and build a future just like the custodial parents.

I'm sorry your friend was treated like an ATM machine, but it seems that for him, the price of being able to move out of his child's life was less than $1800 per month (since you say he does send something). I think he made a foolish choice because he'll never get those years back, and odds are, his kid will most likely always think he was abandoned.

Say the real child support should have been $800 per month. So the overage of $12,000 per year over 22 years is $264,000. That's a LOT of money--in my neck of the woods that's the average cost of a house, though I suspect it might not be in NJ. I think he should have made sacrifices elsewhere in his life since to me at least, a child is worth more than that. I suspect he enjoyed the "gotcha" moment when the mom realized she wouldn't get the child support, but I bet he ends up wishing he'd recognized what was truly valuable (that old phrase "knowing the cost of everything but the value of nothing" comes to mind about his choice).

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

I'm sorry your friend was treated like an ATM machine, but it seems that for him, the price of being able to move out of his child's life was less than $1800 per month (since you say he does send something). I think he made a foolish choice because he'll never get those years back, and odds are, his kid will most likely always think he was abandoned.

Say the real child support should have been $800 per month. So the overage of $12,000 per year over 22 years is $264,000. That's a LOT of money--in my neck of the woods that's the average cost of a house, though I suspect it might not be in NJ. I think he should have made sacrifices elsewhere in his life since to me at least, a child is worth more than that. I suspect he enjoyed the "gotcha" moment when the mom realized she wouldn't get the child support, but I bet he ends up wishing he'd recognized what was truly valuable (that old phrase "knowing the cost of everything but the value of nothing" comes to mind about his choice).

Let's say that he lost everything (he did) because the judge took so much, and he eventually gave up hope. Once you lose hope and fall into depression, you fail to care about yourself, your job, your family, your life - everything.

I have never felt despair, and I hope that I never do, because I saw the look in his eyes. For all I know, he may have killed himself.

Try looking at this from a different perspective.

 

[Carly_Roach]

I'm sorry your friend was treated like an ATM machine, but it seems that for him, the price of being able to move out of his child's life was less than $1800 per month (since you say he does send something). I think he made a foolish choice because he'll never get those years back, and odds are, his kid will most likely always think he was abandoned.

Say the real child support should have been $800 per month. So the overage of $12,000 per year over 22 years is $264,000. That's a LOT of money--in my neck of the woods that's the average cost of a house, though I suspect it might not be in NJ. I think he should have made sacrifices elsewhere in his life since to me at least, a child is worth more than that. I suspect he enjoyed the "gotcha" moment when the mom realized she wouldn't get the child support, but I bet he ends up wishing he'd recognized what was truly valuable (that old phrase "knowing the cost of everything but the value of nothing" comes to mind about his choice).

Based on what I was reading, the father in this case was used to working hard and sacrificing. It seems he worked hard and sacrificed in order to be able to buy a house for his family. He was repaid for that by having that hard work thrown back in his face and the extra money he'd earned was used as though it were his normal income rather than extra income earned for a goal the couple wanted to reach together.

Then when the marriage failed, he fought hard and sacrificed for over three years to be able to stay in his child's life AND be able to keep a roof over his own head. Unfortunately, he lost that battle and decided it was better to leave and live rather than slowly be starved by trying to shoulder an unbearable burden. I'm sure he will always regret not being able to interact with his children. But, in this case, it sounds like he was soundly beaten to death by the money/revenge hungry ex-wife.

It seems to be a case of do one thing, die this way. Do another thing, die that way. Walk away and you'll live - but you can never see your children ever again. A terrible situation to be in, sure. A great reason to never trust another woman or ever think of marrying again as well.

Which might explain why the single people with no children now outnumber the marrieds with children in the US. And that number grows every year.

 

[Carly_Roach]

Let's say that he lost everything (he did) because the judge took so much, and he eventually gave up hope. Once you lose hope and fall into depression, you fail to care about yourself, your job, your family, your life - everything.

I have never felt despair, and I hope that I never do, because I saw the look in his eyes. For all I know, he may have killed himself.

Try looking at this from a different perspective.

I'm not sure that's possible here.

 

[cheermom1]

Disneybamma and carly roach there is no use arguing with people who already have their mind made up. Especially if they have never been in that situation. they can't see the other side of the coin.

I have been on both sides of this, I was a single mom for 10 years with no CS what so ever! I still don't get anything. Now he is in prison and hasn't seen his kids since they were babies. Now I'm married and my poor dh has tried everything he can to stay afloat b/c his ex wants and wants and wants. She even tells the kids that their dad doesn't care b/c he doesn't pay what she wants him to. Not to mention all the other crap she has put him trough not just money either. There is a lot that goes into a decision that a father would walk away and not one that is sudden it takes a long time for that to happen. Pretty much the guy can't even keep a roof over his own head let alone when he has the kids he has no place to take them b/c all his money goes to the ex. So he then feels he has nothing to offer his kids when he has them.

I know I will get blasted for this like you 2 did but like I said you can't reason with someone that doesn't want to be reasoned with much like most of the mothers that these dads walk away from. Which is why they walked.

 

[mrodgers]

I know I will get blasted for this like you 2 did but like I said you can't reason with someone that doesn't want to be reasoned with much like most of the mothers that these dads walk away from. Which is why they walked.

Won't get blasted by me. I see plenty of folks at work who are forced to live at close to 40 years old with their parents because of child support.

Around here, not only does the guy pay child support, but he is also the one who has to pay for the medical benefits, school clothes, extra-curricular after school stuff, just about everything extra.

The 40% of 54,000 being $1800. That would be 40% before taxes. Take the $54k and figure out 70% take home pay from that. Now we are looking at $3150/month. Subtract the child support, the guy is left with $1350. If it takes $1800/month to house, feed, and keep warm a child, how is the guy suppose to house, feed, and keep warm himself on only $1350, along with subtracting the school clothes, doctor visits, after school activities and all the other extras from that $1350 and where exactly does that leave the dad? The answer is, it leaves him homeless.

 

[cheermom1]

Won't get blasted by me. I see plenty of folks at work who are forced to live at close to 40 years old with their parents because of child support.

Around here, not only does the guy pay child support, but he is also the one who has to pay for the medical benefits, school clothes, extra-curricular after school stuff, just about everything extra.

The 40% of 54,000 being $1800. That would be 40% before taxes. Take the $54k and figure out 70% take home pay from that. Now we are looking at $3150/month. Subtract the child support, the guy is left with $1350. If it takes $1800/month to house, feed, and keep warm a child, how is the guy suppose to house, feed, and keep warm himself on only $1350, along with subtracting the school clothes, doctor visits, after school activities and all the other extras from that $1350 and where exactly does that leave the dad? The answer is, it leaves him homeless.

Exactly! If it wasn't for my income dh would be living with his mom b/c he couldn't afford a 1 bedroom let alone 2 or 3 that he needs for his 3 kids. I bring home way more than he does. That doesn't even include food for his house or clothes or anything to entertain them either as the bm refuses to let the kids take even clothes to their dads.

 

[deegack]

Won't get blasted by me. I see plenty of folks at work who are forced to live at close to 40 years old with their parents because of child support.

Around here, not only does the guy pay child support, but he is also the one who has to pay for the medical benefits, school clothes, extra-curricular after school stuff, just about everything extra.

The 40% of 54,000 being $1800. That would be 40% before taxes. Take the $54k and figure out 70% take home pay from that. Now we are looking at $3150/month. Subtract the child support, the guy is left with $1350. If it takes $1800/month to house, feed, and keep warm a child, how is the guy suppose to house, feed, and keep warm himself on only $1350, along with subtracting the school clothes, doctor visits, after school activities and all the other extras from that $1350 and where exactly does that leave the dad? The answer is, it leaves him homeless.

Except the guy has choices. He can get a roommate. He can pick up extra shifts or a second job. Heck, he made the choice to have sex that created the child. The only one getting hurt by the father not paying the child support is the child.

 

[Pakey]

Disneybamma and carly roach there is no use arguing with people who already have their mind made up. Especially if they have never been in that situation. they can't see the other side of the coin.

I have been on both sides of this, I was a single mom for 10 years with no CS what so ever! I still don't get anything. Now he is in prison and hasn't seen his kids since they were babies. Now I'm married and my poor dh has tried everything he can to stay afloat b/c his ex wants and wants and wants. She even tells the kids that their dad doesn't care b/c he doesn't pay what she wants him to. Not to mention all the other crap she has put him trough not just money either. There is a lot that goes into a decision that a father would walk away and not one that is sudden it takes a long time for that to happen. Pretty much the guy can't even keep a roof over his own head let alone when he has the kids he has no place to take them b/c all his money goes to the ex. So he then feels he has nothing to offer his kids when he has them.

I know I will get blasted for this like you 2 did but like I said you can't reason with someone that doesn't want to be reasoned with much like most of the mothers that these dads walk away from. Which is why they walked.

I didn't blast at all. I've also seen both sides. My ex husband, who could easily afford child support, never paid it once to me in the 15 years our minor child was in my sole custody. I never pursued it because I didn't need the money but I can certainly question his moral decision to let a child grow up thinking he was unloved because he didn't want to pay $50 a month in support. On the other side, my current husband had 2 children from his first marriage and we split all costs 50-50 with his first wife even for things I did not feel were required (I won't even go into the monthly meetings where all receipts were tallied and costs were divided equally--very entertaining to watch).

I've known far more non-custodial parents who walked away because they wanted a new life unburdened by the responsibility of parenthood than I've known those "forced" to walk away because they had no choice due to unreasonable child support. I'm not saying those cases don't exist, I'm positive they do. Perhaps if the courts didn't have to deal with so many deadbeats who choose to be deadbeats, they would have time to look at the cases where support should be modified. I'm sure it is very hard to find a sympathetic judge considering the majority of what they hear is the opposite.

 

[cheermom1]

Except the guy has choices. He can get a roommate. He can pick up extra shifts or a second job. Heck, he made the choice to have sex that created the child. The only one getting hurt by the father not paying the child support is the child.

But see you are forgetting that the father needs a certain amount of rooms for each kid. Then there is the fact that most mothers would fit tooth and nail if their kid is exposed to a stranger they don't know. plus all the unknowns when it comes to room mates such as is that room mate parting a lot and the problem that could happen with one. there are so many things that the mom could come back and take the dad to court over with a room mate. Especially if that room mate is a female. Which could be a possibility if that was all he could find. I am saying this as a mom as well b/c I wouldn't want my kids around someone that I barely knew and he barely knew just for a room mate.

Yes he chose to have a kid with the mom but she chose to have a kid with him too. It take 2 the last time I checked. Plus if you are looking out for the best of the kids then the same can be said about the mom, she can be reasonable when it comes to CS so that the dad can live and provide for the kids while he has them.

 

[mamacatnv]

I am the payroll person here at my office. A little over 25% of my staff have a support garnishment in place.
Here is what irks me:

When they come into my office to complain and ask me how they are supposed to provide for their new children or their new girlfriend or new wife or husband because of their support order.

When they get a raise and ask me not to report it

When they work in the field and make Prevailing Wages and ask me not to report it.
(Mind you, I don't report anything randomly but I do complete annual wage questionaires accurately)

I know there are lots of horror stories out there, I also know that life is not fair but children are innocent and if you have them then you darn well better figure out how to provide for them to the best of your ability. If your "ex" is so evil and wicked, fight for custody, fathers do win.

 

[ols386]

Disneybamma and carly roach there is no use arguing with people who already have their mind made up. Especially if they have never been in that situation. they can't see the other side of the coin.

I have been on both sides of this, I was a single mom for 10 years with no CS what so ever! I still don't get anything. Now he is in prison and hasn't seen his kids since they were babies. Now I'm married and my poor dh has tried everything he can to stay afloat b/c his ex wants and wants and wants. She even tells the kids that their dad doesn't care b/c he doesn't pay what she wants him to. Not to mention all the other crap she has put him trough not just money either. There is a lot that goes into a decision that a father would walk away and not one that is sudden it takes a long time for that to happen. Pretty much the guy can't even keep a roof over his own head let alone when he has the kids he has no place to take them b/c all his money goes to the ex. So he then feels he has nothing to offer his kids when he has them.

I know I will get blasted for this like you 2 did but like I said you can't reason with someone that doesn't want to be reasoned with much like most of the mothers that these dads walk away from. Which is why they walked.

No blasting from me. That bolded statement says a lot about the character of the mom. For any parent, a mom or a dad, to tell their children that their dad (or mom) doesn't care, is only hurting the child, by saying that. They might think that they are making the other parent look bad (and maybe they are), and maybe they are saying it as a form of revenge against the other parent, but to tell a child things like that is a form of emotional abuse.

 

[jen0610]

Except the guy has choices. He can get a roommate. He can pick up extra shifts or a second job. Heck, he made the choice to have sex that created the child. The only one getting hurt by the father not paying the child support is the child.

And I couldn't agree more, but than again - SO CAN THE MOM.

I am sorry, but this doesn't fly with me in any way shape or form.

Yes, the dad can get a room mate, but then again mom can. Or dad can move back in with family, but then again mom can as well.

The dead horse beating of he chose to have sex that created the child, is just that a beating of a dead horse. Show me one happily married couple that doesn't engage in sex - for fun or with the intent of creating a family. It is a part of the marriage relationship.

But, when THEY have kids and THEIR marriage falls apart, it is not THE SOLE responsibility of dad to provide for the kids, it's BOTH OF THEIRS.

Yes, one parent is going to be paying the other support, but it should not be to the point where that parent can't even pay for THEIR own basic needs.

Yes, I know there are thousands of deadbeat parents out there - and that door does swing both ways. BUT not all of them are. When there are ridged rules with no room for case by case exceptions, I can see where some of these parents choose to walk away.

The guy I asked about - he is losing it. Mentally and emotionally he is losing it. The ex is a blood sucking vamp. Like I said, his support was up to $310.00 per week. Plus he has to cover the kids with medical, dental and vision insurance on top of that. WHICH SHE NEVER USES, but because it's in the original decree and the judges wouldn't address, he has to pay. And how do I know she never uses it - we get a print out each year showing what our insurances paid out for the previous year. He has shown us his, there are zero claims against any of them. He also has to cover the costs before the deductable is met. She sends him copies of the dr bills and he has to send her a check. He has to pay for half the cost for any of their activities. And this is all on top of the $310.00 he is paying a week in child support.

And forget about visitation. She lives 6 hours away, in another state. Both kids are in multipule activities that they have to be at on the weekends. If he wants to see the kids, he has to drive to her town, pay for a motel room, eat out all weekend and pay to go see his kids in their activites, then pay for anything he may want to do with his kids. And since he has a boy and a girl, mom demands and it is written into the visitation agreement, that he has to make sure they stay where each kid can have their own seperate sleeping areas.

The guy I work with LOVES his kids. But the ex has such an enflated image of herself - she married beneth her station in life - that it seems like she is doing everything she can to drive dad away, so she can forget she was ever married to him. And by the way, her new hubby is the DR she use to work for. It is never enough for her. And sadly, the DD is becoming a carbon copy of her mom. She doesn't even call her dad dad, she calls him by his first name.

 

[cheermom1]

No blasting from me. That bolded statement says a lot about the character of the mom. For any parent, a mom or a dad, to tell their children that their dad (or mom) doesn't care, is only hurting the child, by saying that. They might think that they are making the other parent look bad (and maybe they are), and maybe they are saying it as a form of revenge against the other parent, but to tell a child things like that is a form of emotional abuse.

You are right, she even tells them that she by law doesn't have to let their dad see them b/c he owes her money (he doesn't and never has, he makes sure he is always up to date on everything). I could go on all day about all the things that my dh's ex has said and done to the him and the kids not even including me and my kids. However as I said before it is not all about the money why a lot of these dads make the decision to walk away, it is all the things the ex does and says that add up and it does take a long time for that to happen. I'm not saying I think they have made the right decision but I can understand it.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

An interesting piece if you want some insight into the "deadbeat dad" epidemic: link...

An excerpt:

(Summary: 62% of custodial mothers do not receive child support. However, of that number, three-fourths of them simply do not want child support, have not asked for it, have accepted other financial arrangements instead of child support, or the father does not have the money. Only 11% of those custodial mothers who do not receive child support, is because of "deadbeat dads".)

The "deadbeat dad" craze has allowed the blame of several social ills, from poverty to welfare costs to social pathology, to be placed squarely in the laps of fathers. When we view government data that 6.2 million single mothers do not receive child support, we cringe in disbelief, and wonder how those dads could be so heartless to their children. How can those fathers just walk away from their responsibilities?

Or, perhaps there is another story to be told? Examining the data closer reveals a much different picture of why things are the way they are. It suggests that the severe draconian measures placed to enforce child support are no more than knee-jerk reactions which are oppressing a whole class of people to punish a few. When the reasons for custodial mothers not receiving child support, or not even having a child support order to begin with, are examined, it becomes clear that "deadbeat dads" are a rarity, and the current policies in place will never work.

 

[cheermom1]

I am the payroll person here at my office. A little over 25% of my staff have a support garnishment in place.
Here is what irks me:

When they come into my office to complain and ask me how they are supposed to provide for their new children or their new girlfriend or new wife or husband because of their support order.

When they get a raise and ask me not to report it

When they work in the field and make Prevailing Wages and ask me not to report it.
(Mind you, I don't report anything randomly but I do complete annual wage questionaires accurately)

I know there are lots of horror stories out there, I also know that life is not fair but children are innocent and if you have them then you darn well better figure out how to provide for them to the best of your ability. If your "ex" is so evil and wicked, fight for custody, fathers do win.

I agree with everything you said. those guys are just wrong for asking that of you. It would irk me too. Like I said my ex hasn't paid a dime for his kids and all he was ordered to pay was $51 a week.

 

[deegack]

I never said the support of the child was solely up to the father. Nope never did. I have engaged in sex with my husband not intended to create a child. Guess what we used this wonderful thing called birth control. If we really are concerned, we would even double up on the birth control.

As for visitation and roommates, no one said visitation has to be overnight. A day at the park, zoo, etc. Pick the child up for breakfast, spend the day with him or her. I have a friend whose ex-husband actually does his visitation in hotels because he lives in a studio apartment. Ideal, no, but he sees his kids.

You don't know why the mother doesn't use the health insurance. Maybe she also carries insurance on the children and that pays the bills.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

... If your "ex" is so evil and wicked, fight for custody, fathers do win.

Yep - they do - but the fight isn't fair and the deck is stacked against them - just as the child support laws are draconian and ill conceived, so are the child custody laws. When facing divorce, every father that I know fought for custody. Only one won, and that was because the mother had been reported to child protective services for beating the children multiple times (the cause of the divorce). The rest all lost. Child custody laws are sexist and women would march in the streets if the shoe were on the other foot.

 

[cheermom1]

I never said the support of the child was solely up to the father. Nope never did. I have engaged in sex with my husband not intended to create a child. Guess what we used this wonderful thing called birth control. If we really are concerned, we would even double up on the birth control.

As for visitation and roommates, no one said visitation has to be overnight. A day at the park, zoo, etc. Pick the child up for breakfast, spend the day with him or her. I have a friend whose ex-husband actually does his visitation in hotels because he lives in a studio apartment. Ideal, no, but he sees his kids.

You don't know why the mother doesn't use the health insurance. Maybe she also carries insurance on the children and that pays the bills.

That is so not fair to the father on so many levels!!! Why would you even expect the father to not have over nights? Would you not have your kids for over nights? If not why expect the father? He is the child parent just as much as the mother. You expect the father to forfeit his rights to over nights just so you can have more of his income??