Child Support - opinions please!

[kami2199]

I am friends with a woman whose ex is very active in their daughter's life. He pays child support on time as well as covers all health, dental and vision insurance and out of pocket expenses. He also purchases other things such as clothing for her to take home, all school supplies, etc.

He has recently taken on a second job so he can try to get ahead. This woman is now wanting child support out of both jobs and any other overtime he works. He has since remarried and has another daughter. She has not remarried and is currently single. What are your thoughts on this?

The child support she gets now seems fair enough, it's not a high paying job he has but definately not minimum wage either. I would say he makes decent money for the area we are in. This child is not special needs and is 9 years old. I firmly believe that an ex should step up to the plate and take care of his/her child as far as support is concerned, as he's done. But...the second job is him striving to get ahead just as many do. It's not like he is trying to skirt the issue of support altogether, just doesn't feel he should have to pay for a second job. I also know the ex pretty well and have heard both sides of the story.

Also, she demands that she see a copy of his tax returns every year....so he doesn't hide any extra income. His new wife's earnings are on there as well as all social security numbers. This apparently was put in the divorce decree as he didn't realize what a mess it could be later and just agreed to get the divorce over with. This goes straight to her every year by 4/15, not to her attorney. Thoughts on this? I'm at a loss as to what to say to her when she talks about this.

 

[marybet]

If he is doing all the things you say than I think the ex is just being vindictive. I would ask her why she is doing it, does she really need the extra money, or does she just want to punish her ex.

She should be glad that the ex is such a good father and not try to bleed him dry.

 

[LoraJ]

She should definitely be thankful that he is doing as much as he is.

If she tries to go to court and get more money due to his second job, it may backfire on her because I believe since he has a second child with his current wife, they would actually lower the child support payments. So the new job wouldn't make much of a difference.

 

[Toby'sFriend]

Well technically she is allowed to ask for a reconsideration of child support from the additional income. And technically, he is allowed to quit spending extra money on the school supplies and extra stuff he buys and it will probably all end up being about the same.

I think she needs to be careful. I've known of more than one parent who has said "hey, as long as we're going back to court anyway...I'm thinking that I don't see enough of my daughter and I'd like to ask for a 50/50 custody split."

and then she has gotten herself into a battle that she was never looking to enter.

 

[monarchsfan16]

I don't know the specifics but it sounds like he's going above and beyond what was called for. Good for him
However, the actual child support rate (not including insurance, expenses, and extras which it sounds like were probably set in the divorce decree as well) is based on income. It is a percentage of the income, based on how many children are being supported (here it's 25% for 1, 33% for 2, etc). So she is technically within her right to be looking for additional support, but child support should be adjusted annually based on declared income anyway, so she could just wait until the annual review. Of course there are people who have just a flat rate child support that never changes (my stepfather for example). So they skip the annual readjustment. But the majority of child support is a percentage of income

 

[FionaLovesShrek]

I don't understand why some women seem to go for the jugular on a man who is doing his part. My ex doesn't pay support or help me out with any of the things you say her ex is doing. She should consider herself blessed. But hey, it most definitely can backfire on her if she takes him to court for more. Judges see so many deadbeat dads, that he may be sympathetic towards a dad doing all the right things. Not to mention the new child support laws that make the court look at both parents earnings and decide the child support by that. Yep....she could end up worse in the deal

 

[barkley]

if she goes back to court to get the amount upped she may end up getting far less. depending on how old the child is/how long ago the support agreement was settled his out of pocket expenses for the child's insurance may have gone up (most people's have) and that along with whatever the current co-pays he's taken responsibility to cover have incresed it will be taken into consideration. the courts will also look at his current obligations re. his additional child (i'm assuming she was'nt born when the original support order was granted)-more kids usualy mean less support deemed (they are not going to financialy slight one child in favor of another).

another factor they make look at is the current age of the child and the implications re. it's impact on the mom working. sometimes child support is a bit higher when kids are younger and there is either going to have to be childcare or restrictive hours for the custodial parent to work. and-there may be extenuating circumstances that exist with his current wife/child that make his overall financial picture much less solvent than when he was single (that child/spouse may have medical issues that cause more out of pocket co-pays, some issue with the child that absolutly precludes new wife from working).

i think she needs to look at what she getting now by virtue of clothing, school supplies and all the extras he's not legaly obligated to do. those items can add up quickly if you have to pay for them out of pocket and they only increase as the child ages. she's almost benefiting from an unspoken cost of living adjustment to her child support by virtue of her ex paying for these items at current market value vs. her getting a set amount (from whenever the agreement was entered into) to cover them. as long as he's doing that, covering all the med expenses AND providing financial support-it's seems that he's being more than reasonable.

 

[cardaway]

It really sucks to be the guy in these cases, and sadly, in most cases they can go after a percentage of income rather than come up with a hard number based on the needs of the child(ren).

 

[MorganLeFey]

Lora, your comment bothered me....she should be "thankful" that he's doing what he's legally required to do?

I don't know what your friend's divorce agreement says, kami, or what state you live in...

but...

I'll give my answer from the persepctive of NY law.

the purpose of the law is to maintain a standard of living for the child commensurate with the incomes of both parents.

child support is calculated on the gross earnings of each parent. for one child, it's 17% of gross income. NO income is excluded, so that earnings from overtime and second jobs count in the calculations. the amount awarded for child support is mandatory until the parties' combined income exceeds $150,000 -- anything over $150,000, the court has the discretion to calculate a reasonable amount.

the court may order one parent to provide health insurance, if that parent is in a better position to do so.

I've seen agreements that require the noncustodial parent to pay for clothing and school supplies in addition to support.

most agreements I've seen require that the parties exchange tax returns so that each party knows what the other's income is for child support purposes. (I'd redact social security numbers and other personal information though).


I have a friend whose ex tried to get his support obligation lowered because he had a child with his second wife, and the court wasn't buying it, especially since the new wife was working for a living.

the standard is "best interests of the child" and you probably won't find a court -- at least around here -- that would assume it is in the child's best interest for the custodial parent to give up a % child support without a compelling reason.

now we move from what's legal to what's moral...

i.e., should she cut the guy a break and voluntarily allow him to exclude the extra funds from his support obligation... it depends.

 

[kami2199]

I know for one child here in IL it is 20%...at least that is what it was when they divorced.

A little more info - ex wife only worked 2 days a week while they were married. She had several credit cards that ex husband didn't know of until the divorce. Meanwhile, ex husband worked 2 40 hour jobs. He had Sunday and Wednesday nights off...that's it! He was ordered to pay all debts incurred in their marriage, including the cc's that he didn't know about...heck most of them were in his name from the sounds of it (according to him).

So...on top of this he was to pay insurance premiums, out of pocket expenses, debt, additional money to her in the amount of $20 per week (because he moved some of her stuff out to the garage when she moved out and she claimed it was ruined and wanted reimbursed - it was supposed to end after so many payments but didn't) and he takes the child out shopping for school supplies, etc. They go to garage sales and step mom buys clothes for the child to be taken home and worn at her house (nice, name brand only clothes mind you - mother disapproves because they are used).

He did however file chapter 7 with all the debt. She refused to file with him and then complained about how they started nagging her. I do not advocate bankruptcy but understand in some circumstances. I truly believe he was never going to be able to get out of all of this debt. When he went to buy a house (4 years after Chapter 7), I remember he told me he missed a few accounts (one being ex wife's eye doctor bills) and he had to pay for those before they would loan him money.

I am not great friends with the ex wife but we do keep in touch. I see the ex husband out occasionally. He doesn't rant and rave like she does about this though. I did ask him how things were going and said I had heard he's working a second job now - he must be so tired. He said yeah, but I may quit if I have to hand over another dime to her!

I just don't get it. It seems like this woman truly believes that she deserves whatever he has. I think she is pretty bitter that he is remarried, owns his own home, and quite frankly seems happy. I think this is where the real issue lies. It seems like she kind of laid off a little and didn't rant so much when she was in a relationship (which has now ended). By the way they have been separated since the child was 1, she will turn 10 in a few days.

 

[mickeyfan2]

If he is doing what you say he does than she is extremely greedy. He does as much as or more than any Dad that I know of in divorce situation. The tax return thing is extreme. I would change that if I were him.

 

[poohandwendy]

I think she is just being vindictive and that is probably what I would say to her.

 

[LoraJ]

Lora, your comment bothered me....she should be "thankful" that he's doing what he's legally required to do?

I meant she should be thankful that he isn't a deadbeat dad. He's going above and beyond. He's there for the child. Paying healthcare and buying clothes. He pays his support on time. She's going for the jugular when she should count her lucky stars.

 

[poohandwendy]

I meant she should be thankful that he isn't a deadbeat dad. He's going above and beyond. He's there for the child. Paying healthcare and buying clothes. He pays his support on time. She's going for the jugular when she should count her lucky stars.

I agree and I also agree with those who say she should be careful of the can of worms she may be opening by going for the jugular. If she continues to turn this into a war, she may very well end up right smack dab in the middle of one.

 

[Toby'sFriend]

Lora, your comment bothered me....she should be "thankful" that he's doing what he's legally required to do?

he's doing more than he is legally required to do if he's buying clothes and supplies for the child in addition to the monies he sends to the Mother that is meant to cover those very same needs.

 

[Luv'sTink]

She should be thankful that he pays what he is suppose to pay.

There are thousands of children getting little to nothing twords their support, I get $39.65 a month and I have a part time job.(no state assistance) I have no idea why the Prosecuting Attorney Office in my county is not required more, but to be honest they seem to be working harder for him than for DS. (they don't return phone calls or letters)

 

[kellyg403]

Hmmm...it sounds like she is looking for the free ride still. He sounds like a good dad and unfortunately is getting raked for it. My ex is really good about his child support and purchasing extras when the kids need it. But I do work also to help provide what they need. Extras usually aren't part of the child support for me. I was under the impression that both parents were responsible for making sure the child's standard of living stayed the same. Not one.

Here in NC, my brother is given a credit for the children that he has with his second wife. His ex takes him to court every year for more $$ for things like golf lessons etc. for their son. This year, her child support was reduced because he adopted his new wife's son and they are expecting their own. Because he is military his older ds gets an ID so the child support was also lowered as he was originally paying for a health insurance policy since military medicine was not acceptable to the new wife.

Hope that he is able to find an attorney to speak to that will help him resolve some of these issues.

Kelly

 

[mrsv98]

I will tell you a funny story about "opening can o' worms".

My Dsis divorced her slimy ex and wanted out quickly so she took a pretty low deal so she and DNeph could move to CO. Deadbeat was always late, went months without contacting his son, always excuses....you know th drill. A couple of years ago, slimy ex's new wife calls and starts reaming DSis about "all the money we send you" and "you should be grateful" yadda yadda yadda. Now, I believe DSis just asked where a check was that was months late.

Take in mind that slimy ex has done nothing he is supposed to in terms of medical insurance, life insurance, school money, etc. So DSis became rather enflamed with this accusatory phone call.

Ah-ha says DSis, the slime ball is cheating again and saying the money he spends on chickie is going to son. DSis now really pissed. Calls lawyer, who gleefully rubs hands together and gets the ball rolling. After 18 months of court time, slimy ex now has to pony up way more than before, plus all the back stuff he let slide (10s of k) and pay all DSis's court and legal fees.

Be grateful what you have (if it is fair) and leave the can o' worms alone!

 

[MorganLeFey]

he's doing more than he is legally required to do if he's buying clothes and supplies for the child in addition to the monies he sends to the Mother that is meant to cover those very same needs.

and I repeat...we don't know what their agreement/judgment says.

I represented a father in family court once...his judgment required him to pay support, pay for health care AND buy the children new clothes and school supplies every september. the mother had two other children besides his, and she was on welfare. frankly I thought she was a deadbeat and was milking the system...but nothing could be done. we couldn't open up the judgment, couldn't force the mother to find a job...and if he didn't pay what was due and owing, the state of New York would have come down hard on him..... (ultimately she moved to florida to escape a welfare fraud charge...and because she was hiding from the state, she stopped collecting child support from him.)



if the mother is sitting at home living off the child support, well, yeah, as a matter of morality, she should cut the guy a break and not go after additional support. and yeah, if they guy is buying "extras" for the kids that he's not mandated to buy, she could "lose" that if he's forced to pay additional support from his overtime and second job...why would he voluntarily buy these things if he has to paymore support (unless she won't buy them and the kids will go without....) frankly I don't think a court would lower her child support based on the fact that he's got another child to support -- though she might not get the increase she desires.

but...kimi...I don't know you, so I may be off base...but why does it sound to me like you (and not your "friend") is the second wife?

 

[lindakmonty]

Every state is different. Here in Ohio child support has many factors. Him having a child w/his current wife has no factor in his child support, only children he has to pay child support out for. They take what/who is paying for any babysitting/daycare, and any insurance. My ex is taking me back right now trying to get his child support lowered... Here you have to have a 30% pay change to have it re-evaluated, or every 3 years, or if you have major changes to your insurance... several reasons you can go back for a review...My ex is the opposite and doesn't want to pay for ANYTHING... I understand where you're coming from...the guy is just trying to get ahead... and takes care of his family.