Cheats, liars and other shysters!

[SimonV]

(Posted elsewhere and repeated here)

OK, the topic title may be a touch dramatic ( ) but we have recently come across yet another example of how some villa owners completely mis-represent their properties and try to make out they are 'close' to Disney when the opposite is usually the case. We're used to seeing villas in the Davenport/Clermont areas on Highway 27 (variously in Polk and Lake Counties) described as in 'Kissimmee' but a recent case that Susan has dealt with from our Itinerary Planning business really takes the biscuit (or should i say the cookie!).

Our planner client indicates they are staying at a villa in 'Lake Buena Vista.' Now that is immediately a red flag to us, as there are NO vacation villas in the LBV area. Yes, there are plenty of apartments and condo-hotels, but no vacation villas. This is still Orange County territory, and you simply won't find OC handing out building permits for short-term rentals (i.e. the vacation business). There ARE plenty of villa communities just south of Disney, in Kissimmee, south of the 192 (and which can justifiably say they are "10 minutes from Disney" - although that refers to being on Disney property, NOT getting to the theme parks), but the majority these days are all out on Highway 27, which is a pleasant and rapidly-developing area, with some lovely villas, but it is certainly not 'close to Disney.' From most communities out here, it is a 15-20 minute drive to reach Disney property, even with the new Western Entrance off the (toll) Highway 429.

But what has really got our blood boiling about these people who misrepresent the truth in this way (it is called lying in most cases), is this amazing claim to be in 'Lake Buena Vista.' The website is venere.com and we would urge people to steer clear of this like the plague, if this example is anything to go by. The villa they indicate as "just 10 minutes from International Drive and 15 from Disney World" (yeah, by Concorde!) is actually in the Sandy Ridge community, which we know well from friends who have two villas in the vicinity. It IS a pleasant place to be, and the villas ARE very nice, but it is approximately 10km from the Disney World boundary - not most people's definition of the word 'close.'

But the real kicker is the Lake Buena Vista claim (which this website also seems to do with ALL its properties in this area). This is blatantly and criminally false. Not only are the Sandy Ridge villas not in Orange County (where most of LBV lies), they are not even in Osceola County (Kissimmee)! They are actually in Polk County, south of Osceola.

We sincerely hope this kind of false representation gets shown up and known for what it is - a blatant and nasty attempt to trick the public. How would you feel if your villa '10 minutes from Disney' turned out to involve a near 30-minute drive each day (which can be especially trying late in the day, after a long visit to the parks and probably in the dark)? It is false, it is bogus and it deserves to be exposed.

So, the message is, for anyone looking to rent a vacation villa for their Orlando trip (which remains a great option for many families), look very closely at the location and always get verification, either from the owner or using the address and putting it in Mapquest.

This kind of thing really hacks us off (with apologies to the villa owners who provide genuine information about their homes).

 

[aaronandterri]

Thanks for the heads up, some of the more welk known dissers know there way around but any newbies will appreciate this x

 

[paulh]

wouldent it be nice if villa owners gave a true idea where they are,they should be made to give the distance to MK toll plaza gate then everone would know true distances
Paulh

 

[wicket2005]

Thanks Simon, for drawing our attention to this. I would certainly hate it if I was 30 minutes away instead of 10 minutes from Disney. It must be an absolute nightmare if your villa wasn't where you thought it was especially also when you could be even further away in heavy traffic situations.

I hate being 9 hours away.

 

[psharrock]

Hi Simon

Yes it is annoying, but I suppose you need to do your homework, as there is no overseeing body to check accuracy of claims.

Most villa owners seem to quote distance and times to getting into disney area and not to a park.

Although some times quoted must be done at 3am and not stoping at any red light.

There are very few communities at under 10 mins, but most villas advertised seem to quote this magical number.

Most owners on my community seem to quote 5 mins to Disney, but during the times when most guests would be travelling I would say that this is only vaguely possible if the two sets of traffic lights are green and there is no traffic on the 192.

Paul

 

[UKDEB]

Hey, you know how to go for the 'hook', doncha? That thread title would get even the most nonchalent amongst us grappling with the mouse. Ever thought of writing a book?

Matt thought it was a call to arms! Trouble is, he can't decide which to register for!

Seriously, though, the whole thing needs regulating, but I've no suggestions for how that might be achieved. I've taken a look at the website in question and I can't imagine they're doing anything their competitors aren't. The distances quoted to WDW and I-Drive are factually correct. Only those of us who know the area will be able to read between the lines and realise that they don't represent the time needed to travel to the heart of the action. I acknowledge that they do list all their villa rentals as being in Lake Buena Vista (which they show as comprising the whole of Walt Disney World and the surrounding area), but surely anyone who knows the true location of Lake Buena Vista isn't going to book one of their villas believing it to actually be there? What I'm trying to say in my usual clumsy way, is that I can't imagine anyone being duped by this. Either you know where things are in relation to one another and you're going to see through this, or you're in blissful ignorance. Whilst I'm not condoning what this particular company is doing - and it does stink - I don't think they're doing anything worse than anyone else trying to attract people to book their homes, including private individuals. If you own a property which truly is close to Disney, you're probably going to point out precisely how close yours is in relation to the others. For everyone else, you're almost trapped by this web of lies. I can see how even someone of the utmost integrity could get caught up in all this.

 

[psharrock]

Owners are trapped by everyone elses lies, its hard to be truthful, when knowing someone much further away are quoting lower times to disney. The users of this forum, and other disney related forums know the area, but I don't think you'll be surprised that there will be 1000's of people duped into thinking they are renting a villa close to disney, which in the long run will only harm the villa rental business.

We had friends ask us recently for views on two villas that they had found, that were both quoted as being 10 mins to Disney, one was on Emerald Island, which would be 10 mins away if not less, and the other was north on the 27, which by anyones imagination is going to be hard to get from there to Disney in 10 mins, but they had no idea where either villa was in relation to disney, so took the advertised time as being correct.

Yes there needs to be regulation, but its not going to happen anytime soon. Perhaps the rental websites should enforce the time to disney by using mapquest etc to either a fixed point or the lower of various points around disney (eg the four parks)

Paul

 

[DebIreland]

Wow! Great post. You're right - it really is reprehensible to trick Orlando tourists this way - I can imagine that sinking feeling of checking in to your villa believing it to be next to (or at least very near) Downtown Disney and realising you're miles and miles away from the action. You know, people could even book one of those and not have a car (or the ability to drive) believing they could take taxis or Disney DTD buses to the parks.

But isn't there some business bureau or other that I read about before that you can report this to? Perhaps they only deal with complaints after people have stayed somewhere but isn't there a way to complain this company for false representation on their website?

 

[mickg7dyd]

Hi,
I think this sort of thing has been going for years. Remember the pictures in the holiday brochure of Spanish hotels which actually hadn't been finished, or the "short walk to the beach" ploy. Also holiday firms quoting prices based on 4 people sharing etc etc And it's not just in the tourism industry. I think we've all seen those adverts in the newspapers and shop windows with offers in massive print with almost microscopic print alongside stating "from" or "up to". I suppose if a lawyer were to examine the "10 mins from Disney" claim he would conclude that we assume they mean by car..!!
It's very sad that companies have to use tactics which at best can be described as misleading instead of just being upfront with their customers. I went to a £1 shop in town today and they had signs up "stating every single item £1 unless otherwise marked" Talk about hedging your bets...!!

Mick.

 

[carolfoy]

Thanks for the heads up Simon, some of the big companies were taken to task about this a few years ago but I'm sure i could find some more 'exclusive' brochures on my shelves that are misleading on distances. I do find it funny that they all practically say 10 or 15 minutes to WDW when we all know it takes you 20 minutes inside the gates to get near a park

 

[SimonV]

I think the bottom line is to make people aware of what to look out for and how to check for it. Unfortunately, there are still plenty of newcomers who take the villa websites as gospel, and our client today was a case in point. He genuinely thinks he has booked somewhere 'near' Disney and can pop back in 10 minutes to be by his villa pool for a mid-afternoon break. We have had to sadly dispel that notion for him but, for every person we can help in this way, there are plenty of others who aren't so lucky, who don't find forums like this and who don't know what questions to ask. If villa owners would all at least post a genuine map of their location or at least put the distance in miles rather than their idea of 'minutes' it would help to give the industry a better name.

It's only when enough people are aware of it that the practice might stop. It's easy in forums like this to think that the majority of people are reasonably well-informed and use the forums regularly to help with their holiday choice, but that is certainly not the case. We still see plenty of people booking an Orlando holiday without the slightest real idea of what they are getting in to, and it is those people who are most vulnerable to scams like this.

Just because 'they all do it' certainly doesn't excuse such poor customer service, and certainly there is no regulatory body that looks in to things like this. We just have to spread the word and hope enough people listen......

 

[Claire L]

I think one of the most apt phrases here is - 'Caveat emptor'.

But as you say Simon alot of people are ill informed or just do not realise the vastness of Orlando and WDW.

Someone I know of who is a 'travel agent' went to the southern part of the Dominican Republic in late May once and wondered why it rained so much, she stated it wasn't meant to rain, even though May is regarded as part of the rainy season! Just shows even thoses who are meant to know often don't!

Claire

 

[UKDEB]

I agree with you, Simon - really I do - but your last two paragraphs contradict one another. Until you can find a way to "spread the word" outside forums like these, you're fighting a losing battle.

 

[DebIreland]

Just shows even thoses who are meant to know often don't!

Absolutely. There was a thread on the Theme Parks board last year from a regular poster whose friend booked a Disney resort in Disney World through a travel agent. When the poster asked her friend what was it called, he said "something Beach". She asked "Caribbean Beach?" They said 'no'. 'Beach Club'? 'No'. Turns out it was Vero Beach Resort which they were assured by the 'expert' (travel agent) was bang in the centre of Disney World. Imagine the horror of that trip day in, day out. Awful but hilarious at the same time.

 

[wildwood]

I have to say that not all villa owners are lairs and cheats as you put it , I work very hard to provide people with correct information and make sure that all questions posed to me are answered truthfully so the public can make an informed choice . I agree that there are villa owners that will, write anything to get booking and I would advice any one booking a villa to phone the owners and talk to them personal , get exact address so you can search for location and go with your gut felling.

 

[psharrock]

If villa owners would all at least post a genuine map of their location or at least put the distance in miles rather than their idea of 'minutes' it would help to give the industry a better name.

Simon

Maps are great, if they are detailed enough and show the correct boundaries for disney, also distance can be confusing, as is it distance by road, or as the crow flies and then which part of disney are we supposed to be measuring to.

Eg My own villa is 3.4 miles to the AK toll plaza using the shortest route by road, but only 1.8 miles as the crow flies. However, most owners seems to show times/distances to entering Disneyworld (eg disney signs), so this would knock off .5 miles by road, and .1 miles by air.

Most people I have spoken to about their first trip think Disneyworld is a single place, and the park names they have heard of are just areas in this single place. They are amazed on being told just how big is it, and that its spread out.

I would never intentionally give incorrect information, as I feel this would be self defeating in the long run, as repeat business and word of mouth are key, but as you can see from the above, I could now easily quote 4 distances which would all be technically correct, and then there the other parks to consider.

Paul

 

[Disney owl]

Thanks for the info

 

[wideeyes]

My parents stayed in a villa last year and were told that they can get a bus from the villa to the parks, which they could not. They did not know about Orlando when they booked, they just went into a travel agents and booked the cheapest deal. It turns out that the TA meant Internatinal Drive when she told them they could get a bus, and thought all the villas were near here. Luckly my parents hired a car, just meant they had to drive the non drivers everywhere.

 

[Cochise]

I have to say that not all villa owners are lairs and cheats as you put it , I work very hard to provide people with correct information and make sure that all questions posed to me are answered truthfully so the public can make an informed choice . I agree that there are villa owners that will, write anything to get booking and I would advice any one booking a villa to phone the owners and talk to them personal , get exact address so you can search for location and go with your gut felling.

I think Simon made it perfectly clear he wasn't saying this wasn't "all" villa owners in any way shape or form.
1st para "example of how some villa owners "

he goes on to mention 1 case, 1 website

Finishing para "This kind of thing really hacks us off (with apologies to the villa owners who provide genuine information about their homes)."

Point proven

Travel companies are equally to blame on these and some of the "not to scale" maps they put in their brochures are totally hilarious in their accuracy-or is it deliberate?
It is very hard to spread the word to the newbie visitors unless they get to sites like this. When anyone asks me i tell them immediately to come to the DIS and get involved and "consider" looking for Simons book (i have never bought another guide so cant advise someone to buy elsewhere) our 2006 copy is on long term loan atm which means i know we have helped someone get the most out of their holiday (Sorry Simon for the loss of a sale )

 

[boff64]

Very interesting stuff,

Might be a good idea to post the link to the community map up on top of the page.

We've been before so know the geography but even booking this time it was good to know where some of the newer developments are. It was quite surprising that even some of the newer developments which we thought we knew about were soooo far away!!!