Charge for a lap child

[mickey2000]

Well, sure, but in Jersey you can't even pump your own gas...

 

[ruadisneyfan2]

Well, sure, but in Jersey you can't even pump your own gas...

Nor do we want to. That's a job for teenagers and illegal immigrants.

 

[localdriver]

I've never understood why seatbelts aren't required on school busses. Seems like a far greater risk than lap children on planes to me.

Not to add fuel to the debate or anything, but there was that plane crash a few years ago where the only survivor was a lap child. A young girl, age closer to 4...it took them awhile to figure out who it was because she was too old to be a lap child; I guess her parents fudged on her age, back in the days when airlines took your word for it.

Seatbelts in school bus is a "warm and fuzzy" political thing. Busses are heavy, cars are light in comparison. Seatbelts provide satisfied parents and weapons for the kids, and no real increase in occupant safety. Large mass versus small mass = Large mass wins. Statistics clearly indicate seatbelts are of little use on a bus. Seatbelts in a plane, however, prevent many injuries as a result of turbulence or a hard landing.

An outright crash provides G-forces beyond what the body can withstand, so the use of seatbelts in a plane are for that stated above, not a severe crash.

I remember the incident you mentioned. Pure Luck she didn't strike any hard objects during her personal flight out of the plane.

JMHO

 

[goofy4tink]

Seatbelts in school bus is a "warm and fuzzy" political thing. Busses are heavy, cars are light in comparison. Seatbelts provide satisfied parents and weapons for the kids, and no real increase in occupant safety. Large mass versus small mass = Large mass wins. Statistics clearly indicate seatbelts are of little use on a bus. Seatbelts in a plane, however, prevent many injuries as a result of turbulence or a hard landing.

An outright crash provides G-forces beyond what the body can withstand, so the use of seatbelts in a plane are for that stated above, not a severe crash.

I remember the incident you mentioned. Pure Luck she didn't strike any hard objects during her personal flight out of the plane.

JMHO

Have to agree. I know that we recently had a bus on fire incident in our state. The bus started smoking, the driver pulled over, and got all the kids out through the back exit door. Now, if there had been seat belts, I'm sure there would have been a longer exit time..kids get panicked easily and there could have been issues with that driver getting the kids out as quickly. About 45 seconds after they all got off the bus, the darn thing exploded!!!
Kids on buses are much safer than in cars. Buses are made to withstand hits. Sure, if the bus goes off the road and flips over, it's going to be an issue. But, that is not happening all that often. The kids are really much safer without seatbelts.
On a plane, they should be in their own seats if at all possible. Planes hit those air pockets and down they go.....they can drop a fair amount of feet safely but it's rough on those not seatbelted in!!! Passengers become ping pong balls in that cabin if not belted in.
If there were to be an emergency, the flight attendents would tell those parents with lap babies to put them on the floor, at their feet, and assume the position..head down, folded over your lap. Nope, I want my kid in the seat next to me.

 

[Zeebs]

Have to agree. I know that we recently had a bus on fire incident in our state. The bus started smoking, the driver pulled over, and got all the kids out through the back exit door. Now, if there had been seat belts, I'm sure there would have been a longer exit time..kids get panicked easily and there could have been issues with that driver getting the kids out as quickly. About 45 seconds after they all got off the bus, the darn thing exploded!!!
Kids on buses are much safer than in cars. Buses are made to withstand hits. Sure, if the bus goes off the road and flips over, it's going to be an issue. But, that is not happening all that often. The kids are really much safer without seatbelts.
On a plane, they should be in their own seats if at all possible. Planes hit those air pockets and down they go.....they can drop a fair amount of feet safely but it's rough on those not seatbelted in!!! Passengers become ping pong balls in that cabin if not belted in.
If there were to be an emergency, the flight attendents would tell those parents with lap babies to put them on the floor, at their feet, and assume the position..head down, folded over your lap. Nope, I want my kid in the seat next to me.

As a mother who will be travelling with a lap child. Should we get into a situation where we need to make an emergency landing and the attendents tell me to put my child on the floor, I would not be following advice, I will leave my child on my lap belted to me and assume the position of head down holding the seat in front of me. (not sure if I am travelling on different planes to you but unless you are in a bulk head seat and or extremely bendy you will not get your head down to you lap.) There will be space for my child between me and the assumed position and quite frankly I can't see the flight attendant standing around to argue the point with me.

Kirsten

 

[goofy4tink]

As a mother who will be travelling with a lap child. Should we get into a situation where we need to make an emergency landing and the attendents tell me to put my child on the floor, I would not be following advice, I will leave my child on my lap belted to me and assume the position of head down holding the seat in front of me. (not sure if I am travelling on different planes to you but unless you are in a bulk head seat and or extremely bendy you will not get your head down to you lap.) There will be space for my child between me and the assumed position and quite frankly I can't see the flight attendant standing around to argue the point with me.

Kirsten

That's fine...that's your choice. It's all about having, and making, choices. I hate it when someone makes a choice that works for them, but others come along and debate whether it is a good, or bad, choice. Not my call. I just want info out there in order for people to make informed choices.
I may not agree with your choice..but this is America, we don't shoot those we disagree with!!!! Me, I would not fly with my child in my lap. But that isn't a safely issue..it's a convenience issue. I'm way to selfish to have to give up doing my reading, eating, whatever, in order to keep my child on my lap!! Others have no problem with that. The other thing I have an issue with is someone buying tickets bases on certain parameters, and then the airline changes those parameters. If the OP had known, at the time she purchased tickets, that the airline was going to charge her $50 for her lap baby, she may very well have decided it was worth it to buy the baby it's own seat. Now...the fares have probably skyrocketed and there may be no seats available for that baby....the mom is stuck. That's not fair.

 

[Zeebs]

That's fine...that's your choice. It's all about having, and making, choices. I hate it when someone makes a choice that works for them, but others come along and debate whether it is a good, or bad, choice. Not my call. I just want info out there in order for people to make informed choices.
I may not agree with your choice..but this is America, we don't shoot those we disagree with!!!! well not in all the states anyway Me, I would not fly with my child in my lap. But that isn't a safely issue..it's a convenience issue. I'm way to selfish to have to give up doing my reading, eating, whatever, in order to keep my child on my lap!! Others have no problem with that. The other thing I have an issue with is someone buying tickets bases on certain parameters, and then the airline changes those parameters. If the OP had known, at the time she purchased tickets, that the airline was going to charge her $50 for her lap baby, she may very well have decided it was worth it to buy the baby it's own seat. Now...the fares have probably skyrocketed and there may be no seats available for that baby....the mom is stuck. That's not fair.

Totally agree, with the price increase and the other things mentioned. I would love to have the seat to myself and read, but with a small child I suspect that wouldn't be an option anyway own seat or not. I breastfeed I pretty much expect to do most of the trip with a small child attached to me. (been there done that on a trip from the UK to New Zealand it is a long time to have your b**bs out. But hey he was quiet)

This thread has been quite pleasant given the strong feelings many people have on it. I did a lot of research before making the decision to fly with the kids (seperately of course number 1 child now big enough for own seat) on my lap, yes it is cheaper however, if I felt the risk to them, myself and others was great I would just pay the price but from the information I have read I have more chance of willing the lotto than anything bad happening on a plane, (crashing or turbulance) so this will be a risk I will take.

Kirsten

 

[bicker]

That's fine...that's your choice. It's all about having, and making, choices. I hate it when someone makes a choice that works for them, but others come along and debate whether it is a good, or bad, choice. Not my call.

Please let me play devil's advocate for a second.

[devil's advocacy]

Very few choices we make out in public are truly a choice that affects only ourselves. Typically, the choices we make out in public affect the people around us. For example, some folks have potty mouths. I feel that that sort of thing should be kept to a bare minimum in public. Other people don't need to have to hear people speak like that, even though doing so is "a choice that works for them".

As mentioned before, where you put lap children in case of an emergency does affect how much danger that presents to others (and coincidentally, what is safest for everyone else is safest for the child, even though it isn't as emotionally comforting as holding the child). That's why I'm not quite so sanguine about this as you are.

[/devil's advocacy]

 

[jodifla]

As a mother who will be travelling with a lap child. Should we get into a situation where we need to make an emergency landing and the attendents tell me to put my child on the floor, I would not be following advice, I will leave my child on my lap belted to me and assume the position of head down holding the seat in front of me. (not sure if I am travelling on different planes to you but unless you are in a bulk head seat and or extremely bendy you will not get your head down to you lap.) There will be space for my child between me and the assumed position and quite frankly I can't see the flight attendant standing around to argue the point with me.

Kirsten

People trot this out, but it's SIMPLY NOT TRUE! It USED to be the advice....it isn't anymore. They will not make you put the baby on the floor.

 

[jodifla]

Please let me play devil's advocate for a second.

[devil's advocacy]

Very few choices we make out in public are truly a choice that affects only ourselves. Typically, the choices we make out in public affect the people around us. For example, some folks have potty mouths. I feel that that sort of thing should be kept to a bare minimum in public. Other people don't need to have to hear people speak like that, even though doing so is "a choice that works for them".

As mentioned before, where you put lap children in case of an emergency does affect how much danger that presents to others (and coincidentally, what is safest for everyone else is safest for the child, even though it isn't as emotionally comforting as holding the child). That's why I'm not quite so sanguine about this as you are.

[/devil's advocacy]

There's a ton of unsecured stuff on a plane. People's DVD players, IPODS, purses, etc. etc.

And they're all going to go flying in the event of a crash.

 

[bicker]

Yes, that's true, Jodi. Not much hope for safety in a crash.

 

[cbrfan]

Why do I keep picturing Flat Stanley??

 

[bavaria]

There's a ton of unsecured stuff on a plane. People's DVD players, IPODS, purses, etc. etc.

And they're all going to go flying in the event of a crash.

True, but passengers are also told to secure all of those items in a bin or under the seat when there is any indication of trouble. (I was on a flight 2 weeks ago where we were over the pole, at 39,000 feet, and there was an alarming announcement in German to secure everything and to immediately close all window shades)

I have never heard the window shade announcement, but they said that it was due to extremely high, unusual winds. Believe me, everyone battened down the hatches and held on for a very very very bumpy ride.

I have also been in aborted landings, emergency landings, had pieces of the plane fall off, etc. In all of those cases the FAs ensured that things were secured, either by calling out or using the PA or checking if they had time.

I can shove my purse under the seat in front of me and chances are that it will stay there in the case of a very rough landing or aborted landing.

 

[Zeebs]

I can shove my purse under the seat in front of me and chances are that it will stay there in the case of a very rough landing or aborted landing.

Excellent that is where I can shove Seth..... Do you think I can do it for the whole flight and not just incase of emergency.

Am kidding by the way incase my odd humour doesn't come across via the written word.

Kirsten

 

[CarolA]

As a mother who will be travelling with a lap child. Should we get into a situation where we need to make an emergency landing and the attendents tell me to put my child on the floor, I would not be following advice, I will leave my child on my lap belted to me and assume the position of head down holding the seat in front of me. (not sure if I am travelling on different planes to you but unless you are in a bulk head seat and or extremely bendy you will not get your head down to you lap.) There will be space for my child between me and the assumed position and quite frankly I can't see the flight attendant standing around to argue the point with me.

Kirsten

Oh I can!!!

I have READ stories from parents who like you thought they would "do whatever they wanted" The FA's literally TAKE the child, put it where they want and SHOVE you down and if you move they are BACK on you. They do NOT sit until the FINAL seconds and you aren't going to have time to "regroup" There is NOTHING NICE about an FA in an emergency landing nor should there be. At that point they take on the role of a drill sargent at basic training...... It's there way or ELSE. There job is to ensure the safety of the MAJORITY of the passengers....

One of the MAJOR advocates for childern in a seat is a FA who was on the Souix City Flight that had to land in a field years ago. Thanks to EXCELLENT flying by the expenienced capitan a large number of the passengers and crew got off alive. But she SAW what was happening to unsecured children on her flight in the landing. (It was in a corn field!) I figure she speaks with the voice of expeirence..... Folks on here saying "I can hold junior" speak with "hope"? The Souix City crash had one child die and three with injuries when they FLEW out of thier parents arms.....

Here's an article with additional information!

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-08-03-childseat-usat_x.htm
It's your choice and I don't care what you decide, but I don't buy the "I do it because it's safer" It's not..

 

[Zeebs]

Oh I can!!!

I have READ stories from parents who like you thought they would "do whatever they wanted" The FA's literally TAKE the child, put it where they want and SHOVE you down and if you move they are BACK on you. They do NOT sit until the FINAL seconds and you aren't going to have time to "regroup" There is NOTHING NICE about an FA in an emergency landing nor should there be. At that point they take on the role of a drill sargent at basic training...... It's there way or ELSE. There job is to ensure the safety of the MAJORITY of the passengers....

One of the MAJOR advocates for childern in a seat is a FA who was on the Souix City Flight that had to land in a field years ago. Thanks to EXCELLENT flying by the expenienced capitan a large number of the passengers and crew got off alive. But she SAW what was happening to unsecured children on her flight in the landing. (It was in a corn field!) I figure she speaks with the voice of expeirence..... Folks on here saying "I can hold junior" speak with "hope"? The Souix City crash had one child die and three with injuries when they FLEW out of thier parents arms.....

Here's an article with additional information!

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-08-03-childseat-usat_x.htm
It's your choice and I don't care what you decide, but I don't buy the "I do it because it's safer" It's not..

Firstly I never ever said it was safer I said that the risk, upon reading a lot of information on it was so minimal that for me I would rather have baby sat on my lap.

Also as we fly international we get supplied with a lap belt, which I believe the FAA doesn't allow as they could cause more harm that good should an accident occur. Clearly they know their stuff seeing that their old policy was to put the children on the floor. !!!!!!!!

The lapbelt during turbulance is effective in stopping the child from flying around.

Kirsten

 

[NotUrsula]

Just FYI, the old "brace position" for infants [on the floor] wasn't intended to protect the child -- it was intended to protect everyone else FROM the child, in case said child went flying toward a bulkhead like a guided missile.

The new brace position (sideways on adult's lap, facing back, with adult's body curved around the child as far as possible) *is* intended to protect the child. However, any time you have a soft little child between you and a steel-framed seat, if you shift forward at all that child is going to become a human airbag to some degree. As far as belly belts, the FAA banned them decades ago because it was found that wearing them in turbulence sometimes caused ruptured spleens in infants. AFAIK, lap-carrying is 6 of one and a half-dozen of another in turbulence; it's a Hobson's choice between possible internal injuries from a belly belt or broken bones and contusions from hitting the bulkhead and seat frames.

I'm a carseat user on planes, and the honest truth is that my primary reason for using a carseat is to keep the baby contained and out of trouble while we do things like eat and sleep. Added safety is a very nice bonus, but not my primary motivation.

No one with any sense is claiming that a carseat will save a child's life on a plane in a falling-out-of-the-sky scenario. The benefit of carseats on planes is primarily to prevent injuries, not to prevent death. Most of the kinds of incidents that can cause a child [or an adult] to get hurt on a plane happen not in the air, but on or near the ground.

 

[kaytieeldr]

There job is to ensure the safety of the MAJORITY of the passengers....

This cannot be stressed nearly enough, or too often! The PRIMARY purpose of Flight Attendants is and always has been PASSENGER SAFETY. Thanks for the reminder, Carol!

 

[inkkognito]

Oh I can!!!

I have READ stories from parents who like you thought they would "do whatever they wanted" The FA's literally TAKE the child, put it where they want and SHOVE you down and if you move they are BACK on you. They do NOT sit until the FINAL seconds and you aren't going to have time to "regroup" There is NOTHING NICE about an FA in an emergency landing nor should there be. At that point they take on the role of a drill sargent at basic training...... It's there way or ELSE. There job is to ensure the safety of the MAJORITY of the passengers....

One of the MAJOR advocates for childern in a seat is a FA who was on the Souix City Flight that had to land in a field years ago. Thanks to EXCELLENT flying by the expenienced capitan a large number of the passengers and crew got off alive. But she SAW what was happening to unsecured children on her flight in the landing. (It was in a corn field!) I figure she speaks with the voice of expeirence..... Folks on here saying "I can hold junior" speak with "hope"? The Souix City crash had one child die and three with injuries when they FLEW out of thier parents arms....

Amen to that! People who have never been in an emergency situation think they can imagine it, but they really can't. Thank God I've never been in one myself, but I talked to plenty of FAs when we were flying weekly and heard some first-hand stories of things that amazed me. A crash is bad enough, but some of the turbulence tales made me wonder why any person would choose to risk their child's safety...and by taking a kid on as a lap baby, you are indeed making a choice. Just wouldn't be worth it to me, and every person I know who works in aviation and who I've discussed this topic with says they would NEVER EVER bring their baby on as a lap child (most look at me like I'm nuts for even suggesting it).

 

[zurgswife]

They talk about it in cars and it is the same for planes the velocity of the child or object is X's the speed the vehicle is traveling. There is absolutely no way you could hold a child during a emergency land that had any kind of force involved. If you want to try you can but admit that you are putting the life of your child at risk.