Chapter 7 survival

[In a hurry]

I've done over a hundred thousand. I understand the concept. While I understand that this can be difficult, as I said, hospitals work with people. We saw it over and over both in the NICU, and the cancer center.

Yeah, it stinks, but our lives, our health, our responsility. My opinion.

 

[Fritochips4u]

I've done over a hundred thousand. I understand the concept. While I understand that this can be difficult, as I said, hospitals work with people. We saw it over and over both in the NICU, and the cancer center.

Yeah, it stinks, but our lives, our health, our responsility. My opinion.

Wow....so, I had hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills, was out of work due to being so sick, and single......and I was supposed to "work with" the hospital...WHAT, exactly, was I supposed to "work with"? I had no income coming in.

Had I had a job and no been puking my guts out everyday, I most definitely would've paid my bills, my responsibility.

 

[heartsy77]

YES! To an extent...I think welfare was designed for very SHORT TERM. Too many people are making it a lifestyle. It IS disgusting.

Got to add my two cents. Unemployment and welfare are 2 different things. In 1996 President Clinton signed the PWORA act; this put term limits on welfare recipients. You are only allowed to receive public assistance for 5 years in your whole lifetime. Although, at least here in NY, you can receive medicade and food stamps without any time limit and you are not mandated to work to receive either or both befits . My point is: you can't make it welfare; they give you hardly anything so people don't become reliant on it.
Unemployment is paid by employers and it limited to a certain number of weeks. A new bill was passed recently making the time you can receive unemployment longer due to the bad economy.
What people really should be concerned about is becoming disabled. Here in NY you are eligible for up to @170 week on NYS disability! Who could live on that? And everyone pays into disability @ $.6o cents a week ; and that is all you get! I am sitting here with a broken leg; thanking god I have managed to keep working. A $170 check weekly doesn't even cover my grocery bill! If I was uninsured for this broken leg I would at least be $10,000. in the hole; medical bills are expensive and most people filing bankruptcy have huge medical bills. Until the US adopts universal health care the trend will continue!
I myself have filed Bankruptcy back in 2001. I had medical bills, and cc debts. I am not proud I filed but I am no means ashamed because of it. Filling bankruptcy at that point in my life was the responsible thing to do and one of the smartest! Seven years later I have had car loans, cc, mortgages and never been 1 day , or a $ short on one payment. I also have paid dearly in intrest because of it, which was only right because I was a bad risk. My credit is now good and I don't feel bad about getting a fresh start! Everyone deserves a second chance. Op- good luck and I hope your filling is a positive milestone in your life!

 

[thomas998]

Are there a few scammers out there who run up their bills and then file again and again? Yes, I'm sure a small minority get away with that from time to time.

Actually, the way the system is set up you don't have people doing it multiple times that often.

You can't file for bankruptcy protection at a whim. If you filed this year you wouldn't be able to file again for 7 years.... its why companies are sometimes more willing to loan to someone that filed for bankruptcy than someone that just has bad credit. If its a short term loan like a car, they have more of a guarantee that the formerly bankrupt person will pay them back than they do of the person with horrible credit and no bankruptcy... the horrible credit person might file for bankruptcy while the other one can't.

 

[In a hurry]

I had medical bills, and cc debts. I am not proud I filed but I am no means ashamed because of it. Filling bankruptcy at that point in my life was the responsible thing to do and one of the smartest! Seven years later I have had car loans, cc, mortgages and never been 1 day , or a $ short on one payment. I also have paid dearly in intrest because of it, which was only right because I was a bad risk. My credit is now good and I don't feel bad about getting a fresh start! Everyone deserves a second chance. Op- good luck and I hope your filling is a positive milestone in your life!

The whole issue is that you SHOULD be ashamed. Credit purchases were made that you couldn't pay. What is mature and responsible about that? The people you owed money to were RIPPED off.

 

[heartsy77]

The whole issue is that you SHOULD be ashamed. Credit purchases were made that you couldn't pay. What is mature and responsible about that? The people you owed money to were RIPPED off.

Well you are entitled to your opinion and I really could care less what you think! I was 18 when I ran up credit card debt and yes I was technically an adult, but by no means responsible. If filling bankruptcy ONCE in my lifetime is worst thing I ever do than I can sleep at night!

 

[dvcgirl]

Actually, the way the system is set up you don't have people doing it multiple times that often.

You can't file for bankruptcy protection at a whim. If you filed this year you wouldn't be able to file again for 7 years.... its why companies are sometimes more willing to loan to someone that filed for bankruptcy than someone that just has bad credit. If its a short term loan like a car, they have more of a guarantee that the formerly bankrupt person will pay them back than they do of the person with horrible credit and no bankruptcy... the horrible credit person might file for bankruptcy while the other one can't.

Yes, I guess you're right. I don't know the what the rules/restrictions are with respect to multiple filings. I guess my point is that I do know people who have filed multiple times. I have an Aunt who filed twice when she was married to her previous husband.....he passed away, she remarried and her new husband is much more savvy with respect to finances, so she'll be okay.

The other two (one is family, one is not) have filed a few times in the course of their adult life. They are both still struggling bigtime.....

Wouldn't want to be either of them....that's for sure.

 

[In a hurry]

Well you are entitled to your opinion and I really could care less what you think! I was 18 when I ran up credit card debt and yes I was technically an adult, but by no means responsible. If filling bankruptcy ONCE in my lifetime is worst thing I ever do than I can sleep at night!

But what about the people who provided goods and services to you in good faith that they would be paid? Sometimes it isn't all about you. You basically stole from those people. And you justify it.

 

[heartsy77]

But what about the people who provided goods and services to you in good faith that they would be paid? Sometimes it isn't all about you. You basically stole from those people. And you justify it.

You can think whatever you like; I was trying tell the OP she wasn't the worst person in the world for filling BK. Apparently all you want to do is be negative and judge other people. She has the opportunity to give herself a clean slate; IMHO that does not make her or myself a thief. I really think it is sad that you feel the need sit on your high horse and make judgements about people and their situations you know nothing about! Get a life!

 

[loco4dis]

Got to add my two cents. Unemployment and welfare are 2 different things. In 1996 President Clinton signed the PWORA act; this put term limits on welfare recipients. You are only allowed to receive public assistance for 5 years in your whole lifetime. Although, at least here in NY, you can receive medicade and food stamps without any time limit and you are not mandated to work to receive either or both befits . My point is: you can't make it welfare; they give you hardly anything so people don't become reliant on it.
Unemployment is paid by employers and it limited to a certain number of weeks. A new bill was passed recently making the time you can receive unemployment longer due to the bad economy.
What people really should be concerned about is becoming disabled. Here in NY you are eligible for up to @170 week on NYS disability! Who could live on that? And everyone pays into disability @ $.6o cents a week ; and that is all you get! I am sitting here with a broken leg; thanking god I have managed to keep working. A $170 check weekly doesn't even cover my grocery bill! If I was uninsured for this broken leg I would at least be $10,000. in the hole; medical bills are expensive and most people filing bankruptcy have huge medical bills. Until the US adopts universal health care the trend will continue!
I myself have filed Bankruptcy back in 2001. I had medical bills, and cc debts. I am not proud I filed but I am no means ashamed because of it. Filling bankruptcy at that point in my life was the responsible thing to do and one of the smartest! Seven years later I have had car loans, cc, mortgages and never been 1 day , or a $ short on one payment. I also have paid dearly in intrest because of it, which was only right because I was a bad risk. My credit is now good and I don't feel bad about getting a fresh start! Everyone deserves a second chance. Op- good luck and I hope your filling is a positive milestone in your life!

OK, you filed BR 7 years ago — what you call a "smart" decision for which you carry no shame. And now you have credit cards, car loans, a mortgage, and two Disney vacations racked up with a 3rd coming up soon. The bills you walked away from 7 years ago — who's paying those? Now that you are on your feet, do you feel any responsibility whatsoever to go back and attempt to repay those businesses for the goods and services you fraudulently obtained from them? When you pay a couple thousand for a vacation, do you ever think that those funds should be going to your creditors? Now that you could be repaying your creditors but you aren't — and apparently never will despite your improved financial picture — do you feel ashamed of that, or is that a "smart" decision, too? Oh, and where do your creditors go to get a "fresh start" after people like you defraud them of their services? And just one more thing: filing bankruptcy isn't "the responsible thing to do," paying your bills — past and present — is.

 

[Fritochips4u]

OK, you filed BR 7 years ago — what you call a "smart" decision for which you carry no shame. And now you have credit cards, car loans, a mortgage, and two Disney vacations racked up with a 3rd coming up soon. The bills you walked away from 7 years ago — who's paying those? Now that you are on your feet, do you feel any responsibility whatsoever to go back and attempt to repay those businesses for the goods and services you fraudulently obtained from them? When you pay a couple thousand for a vacation, do you ever think that those funds should be going to your creditors? Now that you could be repaying your creditors but you aren't — and apparently never will despite your improved financial picture — do you feel ashamed of that, or is that a "smart" decision, too? Oh, and where do your creditors go to get a "fresh start" after people like you defraud them of their services? And just one more thing: filing bankruptcy isn't "the responsible thing to do," paying your bills — past and present — is.

First of all, since she's been discharged she has no LEGAL obligation to repay her creditors from 7 years ago. She LEGALLY discharged her debts. She doesn't owe them anything anymore.

Second, how did she "fraudulently obtain" goods and services? I'm sure at the time, like so many that file bankruptcy, she didn't think she'd never pay her credit card bills. Like the creditor who extended the credit, they relied on good faith and *thought* they could pay their debt back.

Contrary to your opinion, filing bankruptcy CAN be a smart thing to do. If you have a home/job and can't make ends meet, creditors can garnish wages, put liens on your home...filing bankruptcy can protect people from the above. So, if one is in debt, can't pay their bills, filing IS a smart move for them to protect themselves.

 

[Piecey]

I'm really curious and the op doesn't really have to answer... but if her husband's 2nd job paid the bills what does his first job pay for? In our household our main jobs pay the bills and our military retirement paychecks go in savings and for the fun stuff.

My DH is pretty bad with money (grew up relatively poor, when he joined the military and poof "had" money, he blew it on STUPID stuff) and is now over $20k deep in student loan debt, on top of his VA benefits. It's the entitlement attitude that got him there. He grew up poor, went to war young and "fought" for what he's got so he's entitled to "blow it".

After we were married, I put him on a monthly budget (I take his GI bill and put it in an ING account to save in case we can't afford his student loan payments after we graduate, in this economy there is NO guarantee he will get a job!) and he is amazed at how much money he blew on things he didn't need, just because he knew the money was there, so why not?

This is the best thing I have ever done for him (and he IS on the ING account so he DOES have access to his money, so no one think I'm just taking it!)
Sorry, kinda went off on a tangent there.. the reason I quoted Tori is because DH receives military disability- while we're young (21, 26) our hope in the next few months is to buy a house and keep our mortgage at or below his disability. (Do-able in this WV market, sadly) to further ensure we will ALWAYS be able to have a home and make that payment.



OP, I feel for you. I don't personally know how you got there but agree with everyone else that you should rethink your vacation!

 

[heartsy77]

OK, you filed BR 7 years ago — what you call a "smart" decision for which you carry no shame. And now you have credit cards, car loans, a mortgage, and two Disney vacations racked up with a 3rd coming up soon. The bills you walked away from 7 years ago — who's paying those? Now that you are on your feet, do you feel any responsibility whatsoever to go back and attempt to repay those businesses for the goods and services you fraudulently obtained from them? When you pay a couple thousand for a vacation, do you ever think that those funds should be going to your creditors? Now that you could be repaying your creditors but you aren't — and apparently never will despite your improved financial picture — do you feel ashamed of that, or is that a "smart" decision, too? Oh, and where do your creditors go to get a "fresh start" after people like you defraud them of their services? And just one more thing: filing bankruptcy isn't "the responsible thing to do," paying your bills — past and present — is.

No nope GUILT here! As i said to other judgemental person; I did what I had to do get where I am today. Just because you don't agree with what I did doesn't mean it was wrong! Why gives you the right to judge others ? Why on earth would I pay creditors for debts that no longer exist? Yes we go to WDW a lot and so what do you care? No one pays my bills but DH and I. We are relaint on no one and pay WDW off before we go! It is because of people like you threads like this get shut down! Sorry I am not perfect like you! I have flaws because I am HUMAN!

 

[DiznEeyore]

Wow....so, I had hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills, was out of work due to being so sick, and single......and I was supposed to "work with" the hospital...WHAT, exactly, was I supposed to "work with"? I had no income coming in.

Had I had a job and no been puking my guts out everyday, I most definitely would've paid my bills, my responsibility.

That's the crux of the matter. When you're the sole wage earner and you're so sick that you can't physically work to bring money in, bankruptcy protection is just that: protection. No one should be forced to lose everything because of a random illness. IMHO, you're exactly the kind of situation that bankruptcy protection is for.

We've also had medical bills, but we were also able to work to pay them off. Thus, we didn't have to file bankruptcy. Our credit was stretched thin for a long time, but we eventually handled the bills because there were two of us and we were able to work. We weren't disabled at home.

There's a big difference between paying over time because you can still work and not being able to pay at all because you physically can't function due to an illness. I'm sorry certain posters apparently don't have the compassion to see that.

 

[Fizzgig]

Do you guys realize how ugly you're being to each other?

Strive for "respectfully disagree." Geesh.

 

[summerrluvv]

While i am sorry for your cancer, I also know that hospital bills can be paid over years. We did so with our preemie, and for my husbands colon cancer.

Allowing people to run from their problems, and make everything a-ok, doesn't usually teach responsible behavior. It doesn't work with small children, and considering the stats of people refiling fro bankruptcy, it doesn't work for adults, either.

People need to learn to stop buying when they are out of money. Kids are leaving college with student load debt and thousands of dollars on credit cards. Adults are charging vacations when they are living paycheck to paycheck. Not smart. As you and I both know, **** happens. And it usually is expensive.

Patting people on the back and saying sweet things is just plain stupid. That is giving positive reinforcement for negative behavior. Dumb.

Can you please post some concrete information as to where there are stats on so many repeat filers because I think you are just talking nonsense now.

 

[summerrluvv]

Actually, the way the system is set up you don't have people doing it multiple times that often.

You can't file for bankruptcy protection at a whim. If you filed this year you wouldn't be able to file again for 7 years.... its why companies are sometimes more willing to loan to someone that filed for bankruptcy than someone that just has bad credit. If its a short term loan like a car, they have more of a guarantee that the formerly bankrupt person will pay them back than they do of the person with horrible credit and no bankruptcy... the horrible credit person might file for bankruptcy while the other one can't.

It's 8 years from the date of filing. Our office has VERY FEW repeat filers and we are probably the largest firm in my area.

 

[summerrluvv]

But what about the people who provided goods and services to you in good faith that they would be paid? Sometimes it isn't all about you. You basically stole from those people. And you justify it.

Stealing is a crime punishable by law. BK is not a crime no matter what YOUR OPINION is on it.

I think in a perfect world a hospital would accept $5 a month for hundreds of thousands in medical bills, but that's not the way it works. They will accept a "reasonable" payment plan, and if you can't pay what they think is "reasonable" and you cannot afford, you are sued, your wages are garnished and your bank account is frozen in addition to a lien on your house (if you own one). It's pretty hard for someone to continue to provide food on the table, a roof over their family's head and transportation if a huge chunk of their income is taken. So that "hospital payment plan" stuff people are spewing, isn't always a reality if you have A LOT of medical bills.

 

[Fizzgig]

Can you please post some concrete information as to where there are stats on so many repeat filers because I think you are just talking nonsense now.

Google is your friend. Here's a case study showing 37% recidivism in the federal court system centered in Utah. "More than 8% of the sample can be abusing the system": http://www.csus.edu/indiv/a/andersenj/WR/research/2004/PDF/05a.pdf

In addition, additional rules were included in the 2005 bankruptcy reform to specifically address repeat filers. http://www.nclc.org/issues/bankruptcy/content/AutoStayRepeatFilings.pdf

Hope that helps the discussion.

ETA: Here's more districts, still with the 8% number for classified "repeat filers": http://new.stjohns.edu/media/3/dfed5458faec4735b8369578d12645d9.pdf

 

[nunzia]

That's interesting to know. Another board I frequent had posters advising one girl to take cash advances on her credit cards and use it to pay on her student loans, because the cash advances would be discharged and the student loans wouldn't. This way she would have less student loan debt as well as no CC's after the bankruptcy.

I was stunned, and posted that it sounded tantamount to stealing (I mean, they were telling her to take money that she had no intention of repaying!), and was snottily informed that financial gurus advise people to do this. They claimed Suze Orman has encouraged people to do this on many occasions!

Wow..it's distressing to hear this. I did know a couple who put everything on cards they had no intention of paying, who (contractor) built a house and ran off with the money without paying for materials (this was our friends home and they tried to attach it to get paid, but that failed). Then these folks claimed bankruptcy and managed to do very well. Trips, cars they had 'hidden', etc. They used every trick in the book and I hope all those holes have been closed.
However..for MOST people bankruptcy is an incredibly difficult and embarrassing decision that will haunt them for years. I'd hate to lump the system scammers in the same pot as those who just really had no choice. And believe me, you can be solid as heck and have savings and great credit and still be wiped out like an out of control freight train.