Census 2010

[franandaj]

I haven't opened ours either but even though they don't allow us to get married any more, me and DP slipped in during the blink in CA when it was legal! I'm so glad we did it, because we were going to wait until it was really legal. and then it wasn't. We had one heck of a party and I had a dress and tiara, all the guys wanted to borrow it! All the gals kept telling me what a femme I was and then I had to scoot my butt away before they grabbed it, but I digress, we are definitely putting MARRIED, and I wish I has ordered those queer stickers that I saw on Facebook last week!

 

[DVC~OKW~96]

My wife told me last night that the form had arrived at our house (in FL).

I'm in favor of us marking gender, and then wife for each of us.

I don't give a damn that we don't have "paper."

So is that some how illegal?

Off to check the links in the posts above this one.

 

[PghLybrt]

So is that some how illegal?

.

That is a good question.


I do consider myself unmarried so for me I guess the unmarried partner fit. I do not want to get married until it is legal across the US. In my mind I hope that i make others think about the fact that I am not married and can't do so. I guess I hope in my little way it helps foster change. Although tons of our friends call me the wifey......

Do not get me wrong. I think it is great for those who choose to get married and I am thrilled for them. This is just the road I am taking. I just wanted to make that clear, I reread what I wrote and it just did not come across the way I wanted. I guess that is my complaint about the boards! Sometimes it makes me look like an ***!

 

[itsmuggsie]

We received ours the other day, we don't concider ourselves married either, so I was going to check unmarried partner.

 

[janiebubble]

In the UK our census will ask how is person one related to person two

our choices are

husband/wife
same sex civil partner
partner

whilst everyone thinks you can marry over here ... it's clear it's not recognised as marriage ... it makes me so mad. I've been with my girlfriend for 7 years, not a lifetime I know but still I should have the right to call her my wife.

 

[hematite153]

whilst everyone thinks you can marry over here ... it's clear it's not recognised as marriage ... it makes me so mad. I've been with my girlfriend for 7 years, not a lifetime I know but still I should have the right to call her my wife.

I agree. The Courts here said that different does not make equal and I'm glad they did.

 

[PrincessYessenia]

My friend sent me a link to this site on facebook:
http://www.queerthecensus.org/site/c.jeJLIVOxEnH/b.5474287/k.9C4D/Queer_the_Census.htm

It's not perfect but it's a way to be seen.

I definitely ordered my sticker. Let's make this count!

 

[PghLybrt]

I definitely ordered my sticker. Let's make this count!

 

[jackskellingtonsgirl]

I filled ours out, but completely forgot to mail it. I ran across it yesterday when I was digging for the response card to a party I need to mail. Oops.

You would think the census folks could come up with a way to count accurately. Could they not put "Same sex couple in a state that doesn't recognize gay marriage"? Because at the end of the day, that's where a lot of couples are right now!

 

[BYC]

I have been reading this thread with interest, and I have some questions, if you don't mind. I am a conservative woman who is very outspokenly in favor of gay marriage. Actually, I believe a true conservative should be OK with it, for a couple of reasons. One, it doesn't cost the rest of the population anything, and two, most of us are looking for less government interference in our lives. I believe people have a right to be against it for whatever reason they have...religious, or whatever. But, I think this falls into the category of if you don't like it, don't do it. But no one has the right to stop others. That being said, can someone please explain exactly what labels a person a homophobe? Is a homophobe anyone that is against gay marriage? I see many people in this forum often talk about homophobic politicians. Is being against gay marriage what makes you call them that? If so, why does Obama get such a free ride? I never see him being called a homophobe, and he is against gay marriage. One reason I am interested in your responses is because I really believe that the conservatives (and I am mostly talking about fiscal conservatives) are missing the boat by not taking up the cause of the gay community. I know many gay conservatives, but it is not a majority, from my experience. Would more people lean towards conservatism if the gay marriage issue was taken out of the picture by federal legalization? Thank you for any responses.

 

[DVC~OKW~96]

Hello, and thank you for caring enough to ask!

For me (and please? I'm speaking only for myself not the greater population of lesbians)...

Homophobia is a little more involved than being anti-gay marriage. Sometimes, someone speaks out against same gendered marriage, but is really covering for their complete intolerance for anything lesbian or gay.

Why wouldn't someone want to allow two adults to marry? No one is advocating that those adults get married in a religion that doesn't want them. Go ahead and try to marry in a Roman Catholic church if you are not RC, or willing to convert, or be willing to raise your children as RC? That's an excuse and those who use that excuse (that all religions will be forced to perform marriages) to me are deliberately fear mongering. There is no truth to it.

Homophobia consists of those people who are intolerant and don't care who knows it, like the man who passed me (and my Rainbow Mickey and HRC stickers) on 75 and flipped me off while driving beside me for several miles... that's homophobia too.

Homophobia is demonstrated by those people who refuse to accept that two men can have as loving and honorable marriage/relationship as a man and a woman. Homophobia is cutesy sometimes too. Two men are disgusting, but can we watch you two women? Yes, that is real. Yes, those sorts of questions do get asked.

Homophobia is any level of feeling that someone is less than another solely because of who and what they are (within this context). We call it other things when it's race or gender based, don't we?

Intolerance for accepting that my life is as valid and imporant as your's. That my long term relationship with the woman I call my wife is as valid and important, and beautiful as is any opposite gendered relationship.

I'm sure there are others here who will be more profound, more succinct, more thorough, but these are some of my thoughts on the topic.

Again, thank you! I truly appreciate your asking.

Take care now and don't hesitate for one second to ask for clarification of anything I've written.

 

[BYC]

Thank you for your very nice and thoughtful response. But, it does not answer the question about why the gay community and their supporters have not labeled Obama as a homophobe, or as an enemy of the gay movement for the right to marry. Why does he get the free ride? Why is his anti-gay marriage opinion different than another politician who may be against gay marriage, and is called homophobic because of it?

 

[franandaj]

Thank you for your very nice and thoughtful response. But, it does not answer the question about why the gay community and their supporters have not labeled Obama as a homophobe, or as an enemy of the gay movement for the right to marry. Why does he get the free ride? Why is his anti-gay marriage opinion different than another politician who may be against gay marriage, and is called homophobic because of it?

Just as DVC~OKW~96 said, I can't speak for the entire gay community, just myself, but I think it takes more than just being against Gay Marriage for one to be labeled a homophobe. Arnold Schwarzenegger is also against Gay Marriage and no one is calling him a homophobe either.

I thought about this question as I ran my errands today, so I hope I can give you a composed response. Here are some of the situations that I would label as definitely homophobic. At the Pride Parades there are a group of people who stand with police guards (presumably to protect them from us ) holding big hateful signs, about what god thinks about gays. They carry bull horns and say hateful and ridiculous things as the parade passes by them. These people make it a point to attend every event within a 150 mile radius of So Cal. They are clearly homophobic. Then there are also the people you encounter perhaps on an airplane whose kids are constantly kicking your seat, and when you politely ask if they could have their child refrain from such behavior, they mutter under their breath, "God *&^%med Dykes."

As far as politicians go, there are those that draft anti-gay legislation, or constantly promote family values, and make it clear that a family contains a man and a woman as the heads of household, with no other options. They might also align themselves with members of the clergy who have outspoken views against LGBT people. There are any number of things that a person can do that makes people label them as a homophobe, but simply being against gay marriage is not enough, IMO.

Obama has done some very respectable things for the Gay community. I am a band musician, and our international band organization LGBA (Lesbian and Gay Bands Association) played seated in concert as dignitaries marched past for both of Clinton's inaugurations. George Bush declined our application for both of his terms. However Obama actually invitied the LGBA Band to be part of his inaugural Parade! Of course they were at the end and ABC had stopped coverage by the time they came up, but C-Span showed them. That was a very proud moment for about 200 musicians from around the country. He also declared June (I think it was) National Pride month, that was a pretty bold move as well. While he does not support all the LGBT wishes, he has done a lot more than any other President in history.

One thing that we take in perspective is that in 1978 our band was just forming and one year around that time, the band marched in the Hollywood Christmas Parade. They quarrantined our band to keep "those people" away from the high school kids who were marching in the parade. For those who were there then, they look back on that and think almost in disbelief because next month our band is giving a concert at a High School in Hollywood. Not only are we being hosted by that school's Gay / Straight Alliance, but their band will be performing the final number of the concert with us, sitting onstage in and amongst our band.

Things have changed a lot over the years, but we can't expect it to happen overnight. Those who have been around know that just because people don't agree with all your views they are not the enemy. This is just my opinion as to why Obama is not called a homophobe, he has done some great things for the community even if he won't help us get everything we want.

 

[DVC~OKW~96]

Thank you for your very nice and thoughtful response. But, it does not answer the question about why the gay community and their supporters have not labeled Obama as a homophobe, or as an enemy of the gay movement for the right to marry. Why does he get the free ride? Why is his anti-gay marriage opinion different than another politician who may be against gay marriage, and is called homophobic because of it?

Hmmmm, is this a true request for opinions or simply a quest to bash President Obama?

Is he perfect? Of course not. Will he repeal DADT? One can only hope.

Why is it so important to you to have him named a homophobe when other politicians are much more obvious in their intolerance.

Also, I did tell you that I spoke only for myself so asking me a question about the gay community as a whole is disingenuous, eh?

Oh well. If you truly want our opinions, you are welcome to them. If you only wanted language to use against a president, then I feel as though I've wasted my words and the time it took to post them.

 

[DVC~OKW~96]

Obama has done some very respectable things for the Gay community. I am a band musician, and our international band organization LGBA (Lesbian and Gay Bands Association) played seated in concert as dignitaries marched past for both of Clinton's inaugurations. George Bush declined our application for both of his terms. However Obama actually invitied the LGBA Band to be part of his inaugural Parade! Of course they were at the end and ABC had stopped coverage by the time they came up, but C-Span showed them. That was a very proud moment for about 200 musicians from around the country. He also declared June (I think it was) National Pride month, that was a pretty bold move as well. While he does not support all the LGBT wishes, he has done a lot more than any other President in history.

That can be a type of homophobia too, the ABC nonsense of cutting off the band. It was a great moment in history to have this band marching in an inaugural parade!

Bush, in refusing the application shows his homophobia. President Obama went one step further than President Clinton. It's too bad the television stations had to try and reduce the significance of the LGBA Band's participation.

I have no data to support this, solely my own opinion, but I believe President Obama would do more if there weren't so many other issues he has to face. The anti-Obama (and therefore, anti-American) factions go out of their way to keep him distracted. That can be seen as a very effective means of preventing the lesbian and gay community from moving forward with obtaining the same civil liberties as other Americans have.

Don't want this to slide too far down the slippery slope of DIS forbidden politics so I'll stop here...

 

[BYC]

That can be a type of homophobia too, the ABC nonsense of cutting off the band. It was a great moment in history to have this band marching in an inaugural parade!

Bush, in refusing the application shows his homophobia. President Obama went one step further than President Clinton. It's too bad the television stations had to try and reduce the significance of the LGBA Band's participation.

I have no data to support this, solely my own opinion, but I believe President Obama would do more if there weren't so many other issues he has to face. The anti-Obama (and therefore, anti-American) factions go out of their way to keep him distracted. That can be seen as a very effective means of preventing the lesbian and gay community from moving forward with obtaining the same civil liberties as other Americans have.

Don't want this to slide too far down the slippery slope of DIS forbidden politics so I'll stop here...

I'll send you a private message so I don't risk breaking any rules.

 

[DVC~OKW~96]

I appreciate your honesty.

I think we've answered as best we can. He's not a homophobe, although he has clearly stated he believes marriage to be between one man and one woman. I could go on for a bit about how I believe that was an expedient, politically motivated remark, but meh ... you know?

I think if the opposition to gay marriage were to simply let it go, and get over it, recognize that people are people and do they REALLY care? (I mean seriously, heterosexuals can marry as many times as they please, engage in all sorts of extramarital affairs, divorce, remarry... blah, blah, blah, and that's fine??? ) Why does anyone care at all what two consenting adults do?

Against your religion? Don't do it. Easy peasy. Some religions find it immoral to allow women out of the house unless they are covered head to toe. I don't believe that, so I don't follow that... and I wouldn't be expected to join that religion.

Same thing.

So, yes. If the opposition were able to just get past the gay marriage intolerance, they could really have a strong potential to see a strengthening in their ranks...

As for me? I'll work for re-election.

 

[tig82174]

I kind of hesitate to throw my opinion into the fray here....but I guess it's worth saying: I don't believe that homophobia is necessarily a black and white phenomenon. It is not a switch that is either turned on or off...or a binary value of either 0 or 1. Homophobia, like many social ills and forms of bigotry, exists on a spectrum---I don't necessarily think that everyone either IS a homophobe or is NOT----I think that people have varying degrees of homophobic views, beliefs and/or behaviors. Some people are very homophobic and some people are less homophobic.

My parents are a very good example----my father is a retired military officer and a full time southern baptist minister. He and my mother have been married for over 40 years and have very deeply held religious and political beliefs that are in STARK contrast to my own as an atheist queer man. All that said, however, my hubby and I have a great relationship with my parents. We have grown to a place of mutual respect. We love them dearly and they love us dearly. We even vacation with them at WDW frequently and they share our hotel room or villa. In our day to day lives, they are loving and supportive of me and of him (my hubby) and of us. HOWEVER, they do not support our equal rights. They voice and enact their opinions, although always in a loving & respectful and never in a vicious way, through the political process at every election. They actively vote for politicians who oppose our civil rights in our home state. They have said that even though they would love any child my partner and I might choose to have or adopt one day, that in their hearts they don't believe we should be "allowed" to have children. My father is on the school board in our hometown and has openly expressed opposition to a GSA (Gay-Straight-Alliance) being formed in their district. You see----while my parents and I have come to a place of peace in our relationship...and I truly believe that my parents have come a long, long way (possibly even farther than I could have expected when I came out over 15 years ago) in their relationship with me and my partner....they still fall victim to their own homophobia frequently---ESPECIALLY when it comes to the issues and rights of LGBT people to whom they aren't related. Are my parents the awful kind of people who would protest at pride parades and say degrading things to and about LGBT people? No, they are not. Do I believe that my parents are homophobic? Yes, I do----at least some of the time.

So, in response to the original question: Isn't Obama homophobic? Yes, on some issues, I believe he is. Why does he get a free pass? From me he does not. I actually DO believe that Obama has allowed homophobia to inform some of who he is as a man and a politician. Is he the MOST homophobic politician? Not by a long shot. Did I support him as President despite his views on marriage? Yes, I do, because he was (and is) the best option available. Do I wish & hope on a daily basis that one day he will wake up and realize the homophobia of his position? Absolutely.



Now...on the ACTUAL topic of this thread....we sent in our completed census today with the big beautiful pink sticker attached to the back of the envelope wiht a big black checkmark next to the word "GAY"

 

[franandaj]

I finally filled mine out today, and have yet to drop it in the mail. I wish I'd ordered one of those pink stickers, but I did put my DP as person 1, myself as person 2, and that I was "husband or wife" of person 1.

I probably confused them even more thoroughly because we own the apartment building that we live in and I put that we live at a secondary residence part of the year, becuase we alternate sleeping between two apartments in the building so that we can spend time with all of our cats (one has her own apartment because she doesn't get along with the rest). How's that for confusing!

 

[DVC~OKW~96]

Tig, that is absolutely right. It is best described as a spectrum, not an all or nothing...