CDC Level 4

[mmouse37]

I couldn't find direct numbers but much of their air traffic that I see in 2021 in the US is operated by American Airlines actually checking their website.

I never said other countries and international travel wouldn't require vaccines I think it will. I am talking specifically about the US and US companies and how it would apply to DCL out of US ports.

Oh I wasn't challenging you just posting that some travel vendors are requiring it. I think people may buck at required vaccinations....be it domestic or international.

MJ

 

[spiders]

I couldn't find direct numbers but much of their air traffic that I see in 2021 in the US is operated by American Airlines actually checking their website.

I never said other countries and international travel wouldn't require vaccines I think it will. I am talking specifically about the US and US companies and how it would apply to DCL out of US ports.

I would have said you were crazy back in March if you told me you thought there would be restrictions on interstate travel.

 

[sethschroeder]

I would have said you were crazy back in March if you told me you thought there would be restrictions on interstate travel.

There is a drastic difference between some minor restrictions for the vast majority of people or some travel restrictions on a fairly small amount of people to a distant location (NY to FL as example) compared to requirement to take one of a variety of vaccines that is new and has fairly significant side effects.

In addition the vaccines that are fairly accepted as a requirements are typically in the 5/10/15%+ range of mortality from what I have come across or have been around for generations at this point in some manner.

I feel like some people are oblivious that there is a portion of the US population who are 100% on board with restrictions regarding COVID, will even possibly take a vaccine, that in the end would absolutely be opposed to a required COVID19 vaccine.

The interstate travel restriction you bring up has impacted likely less than 1% of the US population and the restrictions were typically a quarantine X number of days not a requirement to take a vaccine or outright ban on travel (even Hawaii was a quarantine order at worst).

This coming from a fairly outspoken individual on the seriousness of COVID19 since January. So its not like I take it lightly.

 

[spiders]

There is a drastic difference between some minor restrictions for the vast majority of people or some travel restrictions on a fairly small amount of people to a distant location (NY to FL as example) compared to requirement to take one of a variety of vaccines that is new and has fairly significant side effects.

In addition the vaccines that are fairly accepted as a requirements are typically in the 5/10/15%+ range of mortality from what I have come across or have been around for generations at this point in some manner.

I feel like some people are oblivious that there is a portion of the US population who are 100% on board with restrictions regarding COVID, will even possibly take a vaccine, that in the end would absolutely be opposed to a required COVID19 vaccine.

The interstate travel restriction you bring up has impacted likely less than 1% of the US population and the restrictions were typically a quarantine X number of days not a requirement to take a vaccine or outright ban on travel (even Hawaii was a quarantine order at worst).

I am personally opposed to forcing anyone to take a vaccine. But I think our definitions of what “forced” means are significantly different. I have no problem with denying access for those who don’t want to comply with terms to receive service.

I also don’t think interstate travel restrictions are minor inconveniences when they want you to quarantine for 14 days.

 

[sethschroeder]

I am personally opposed to forcing anyone to take a vaccine. But I think our definitions of what “forced” means are significantly different. I have no problem with denying access for those who don’t want to comply with terms to receive service.

I also don’t think interstate travel restrictions are minor inconveniences when they want you to quarantine for 14 days.

The 14 day quarantine likely impacted less than 1% of people in the US. Minor impact. It might have impacted you directly but most people it did not impact. In addition lots of people are working remotely thus relieving the impact as well. Further these restrictions I doubt were being enforced like in other countries.

With the vaccine requirement my point has been that large corporations in the US are not going to require a vaccine to do business with you. Now they may make you jump through a ton of other hoops but there will be a way around a vaccine. The only way vaccine requirements become more central to any travel, entertainment, or business is based on government requirements. Easiest way for a CEO to lose their job is pushing a vaccine requirement when other companies are able to get by with other options for their customers.

 

[spiders]

The 14 day quarantine likely impacted less than 1% of people in the US. Minor impact. It might have impacted you directly but most people it did not impact. In addition lots of people are working remotely thus relieving the impact as well. Further these restrictions I doubt were being enforced like in other countries.

With the vaccine requirement my point has been that large corporations in the US are not going to require a vaccine to do business with you. Now they may make you jump through a ton of other hoops but there will be a way around a vaccine. The only way vaccine requirements become more central to any travel, entertainment, or business is based on government requirements. Easiest way for a CEO to lose their job is pushing a vaccine requirement when other companies are able to get by with other options for their customers.

I have not been impacted by the 14 day quarantines but I don’t see the relevance.

I think you are highly underestimating the people that will get a vaccine and where requirements to have one would increase their likelihood to do business there.

I don’t really know what other options are viable to begin the path to normalcy...especially with cruising. Negative tests don’t mean you’re safe and social distancing is not economically viable.

 

[sethschroeder]

I have not been impacted by the 14 day quarantines but I don’t see the relevance.

I think you are highly underestimating the people that will get a vaccine and where requirements to have one would increase their likelihood to do business there.

I don’t really know what other options are viable to begin the path to normalcy...especially with cruising. Negative tests don’t mean you’re safe and social distancing is not economically viable.

A vaccine is not 100% and also does not mean you can't spread COVID19 as well.

Lets say they do 50% of cabins on the fantasy. Thats 625 cabins and likely 1875 total guests. A 90% effective rate leaves 187 passengers unprotected in addition the other 1700 passengers could be carriers meaning Disney would likely be required to have additional protocols likely testing in place before Bahamas would allow them to enter port.

 

[spiders]

A vaccine is not 100% and also does not mean you can't spread COVID19 as well.

Lets say they do 50% of cabins on the fantasy. Thats 625 cabins and likely 1875 total guests. A 90% effective rate leaves 187 passengers unprotected in addition the other 1700 passengers could be carriers meaning Disney would likely be required to have additional protocols likely testing in place before Bahamas would allow them to enter port.

A vaccine isn’t 100% but a 90% effective rate vaccine is better than no vaccine. And effectiveness is influenced heavily by the percentage that have taken it.

We’ll have to agree to disagree. I just personally think that while places like Disney World may or may not require it, I personally have zero doubts that all cruise lines will require it. I am booked for next November. Maybe I am in the minority but I’d say there is a 99% chance I’ll go if a vaccine is required and a 50/50 chance if it isn’t depending on how things look at PIF.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

A vaccine is not 100% and also does not mean you can't spread COVID19 as well.

Lets say they do 50% of cabins on the fantasy. Thats 625 cabins and likely 1875 total guests. A 90% effective rate leaves 187 passengers unprotected in addition the other 1700 passengers could be carriers

No, it doesn't work like that. If you have been vaccinated, it prevents the virus from "connecting" to your cells and injecting the required mRNA sequence to manufacture more viruses. In short, if you have been vaccinated using the current vaccines that are in consideration by the FDA (and it 'takes'), you can not be a carrier. If everyone on the ship has been vaccinated, the maximum number of people that could be carriers would only be 187.

The only way those 187 would be all be carriers is if 5 days before the cruise they got together in a mass infection orgy and coughed all over each other for a few hours.

FAR, FAR, FAR more likely would be 1-2 of those people MIGHT be carriers. In an absolute worst case scenario, if a number of them got together in a DVC party or something on the first day, they might spread it to another 4 people. By the end of the cruise, those 4 might have been contagious, and if they have a going away party, might be able to infect another 2-4 people. So by the time everyone gets home you might have 6-8 people IF YOU WERE VERY, VERY UNLUCKY. Far more likely might be 1-2 people getting infected

The exposure to the Bahamas would still be the 1-2 + maybe 1-2 more. If you add a rapid test on top of this prior to boarding, those chances drop significantly more.

 

[gotomu212]

The only way those 187 would be all be carriers is if 5 days before the cruise they got together in a mass infection orgy and coughed all over each other for a few hours.

This description made me laugh, and seems to describe what some idiots here are doing. Can we bob for apples at this infection party?

 

[TiggerBouncy]

This description made me laugh, and seems to describe what some idiots here are doing. Can we bob for apples at this infection party?

IKR? I couldn't believe what I was reading when a few months back some nuts were holding "COVID parties".

I guess this would be similar, but a targeted audience of a few sick people and the rest of the people on the cruise. You would still have a very difficult time getting all the people who's vaccine didn't take. It's like "quantum vaccination". You can't tell who is vulnerable until you measure their vulnerability, and then they are no longer vulnerable.

To be honest with you, I don't think bobbing for apples is gonna infect a lot of people. Water doesn't carry the virus particularly effectively. But, I mean... I'm not one to stand in the way of such a noble tradition such as bobbing for applies, so I'm not going to say you can't.

Anyway you cut it, the math is not in your favor to infect the boat for a vaccine that's over about 75% efficacy. But hey, I mean.... we all have to have a goal in life. Some people's goal might be to try to get more than 10 covid people together on a ship after the vaccine.

It's not MY goal, but we all gotta have a dream.

 

[cmph]

Over 7 days in length are what was canceled until November 2021. I don't know how far in advance the 7 days and shorter cruises are canceled.

The only thing I've seen is that they have stopped selling those cruises, not that they have canceled them for people who've already booked, and it had to include a US port. It's a bit of semantics (ceasing sales vs canceling outright), which I find curious but was maybe just how the article I read worded it. I have an 8-day (Norway) scheduled on Royal in July '21, rescheduled from Caribbean March 2020, and I wish it would just be canceled by Royal now so I didn't have it on my mind at all!