catholics... what do you think about this...

[bellebud]

my kids (ds7 and dd9) go to a catholic school. DS7 had his first reconciliation yesterday. when i was standing outside the door waiting, I could hear a little (really the priests voice just because it's louder and lower). It was mostly mumbles, but I clearly heard "stupid" come from the priests mouth, and I *thought* it was "you're" stupid, but I wasn't sure about the "you're". so ds comes out, priest says what a nice little boy you have, and we're on our way home. In the car, ds says "mom, the priest called me stupid". I'm asking him in what way, he says "in a mean way". I'm trying to figure out exactly how, and I'm offering ds 'nicer' suggestions, like "did the priest say something like *it's stupid for you to fight w/ classmates" (that was one of ds's *sins* he *confessed*). DS cannot clearly remember, but says "no, he called me stupid, in a mean way".

Now, I know a 7yo child could certainly hear it a different way than the priest intended, so I'm considering asking father tomorrow morning at school. I would put it something like "can you explain to me the way you meant the word stupid, because all ds took away from his reconciliation is you think he's stupid, and I'm sure you didn't mean it that way. I'd like to be able to explain to him what you meant so he can better understand what reconciliation was about".

my background is I was brought up catholic, but not 'very' practicing. I made my communion, but our priest and catholic school teachers were so mean, I stopped going and my parents agreed (our priest was later found to have molested many, many boys, so that put more of a bad taste in my mouth). So all these years later, I'm sending my kids to catholic school. we mainly started there because dd had seizures when she was little and we wanted her in a small environment, and we ended up liking it and staying. I started to like church for the first time in my life, and I was happy w/ the values the school and church were instilling in my kids. This isn't an "old school" catholic school - no nuns teaching, they really concentrate on the "nice" parts of being catholic, not the dark, sinful, devil's gonna get you type thing that a lot of people tell me about who went to catholic school years ago. The priest is brand new to our church (1 month), and I'm thinking he might be "old school", but he really didn't seem that way during morning prayer/pledge every morning when he comes in to pray and talk w/ the children. He actually seemed very intune w/ the kids and really spoke right to them, not just over them (if you know what I mean). I'd guess he's in his 50's, so he's not young, but certainly not old.

anyway, just wondering what others think of this. My dh says "it's just another lesson for ds how we can't control what other's say", which I totally agree w/, but I hate to say to ds "who cares what father says, don't listen to him or believe what he says". But if I don't get any real answer to this, what else can I say to ds? I can't say "yep, father's right, you're stupid". And this is how ds is taking it. He now is afraid of father, and already didn't 'love' going to church, of course this is just adding to that. I was really hoping for a new outlook on church from when I grew up, but this is a turn down the wrong road for that to happen. and it's a shame, because it was slowly happening.

any thoughts?

 

[ruadisneyfan2]

I'm sorry I can't tell you what to do. I'm not Catholic but my dad's side of the family is and dh was brought up and went to Catholic schools. He pretty much got his a** beat everyday by slap or stick (or some other humiliation) and even at 50 is still emotionally scarred from it all. The day Santa visited his 1st grade classroom, his teacher made him stand in the trash can so this is what Santa saw. If he were a Dis-er he'd be writing 10 pgs now. Once the subject gets brought up, he goes on and on and on....
None of his siblings go at all and he's the oldest of 6 but his parents still do. He did not want our kids brought up Cath. He said he'd rather feed them to a pack of hungry wolves than have a Cath. priest instill "values" in our boys..
While the pope keeps apoligizing for priest molesting kids, dh wants to see them arrested and jailed like any other human would get for doing the same thing.

Oh my, I'm starting to sound like dh. I'll just leave it at that and let other people decide how to raise their kids.

I hope your ds gets a good explanation...

 

[Lesley Mahler]

As a Mom and a catholic who was turned off at a young age too and am now getting back into it with my DD through her catholic school and wonderful priest, I would talk to father. Like you, it was a priest that turned me away from practicing and now like you, I am back into it with my DD b/c we placed her in catholic school and of course, want to follow what they are teaching her. Our priest is wonderful with the kids and if he did anything that upset them, he would definatley want to know about it. I think what you plan on saying is perfect. You aren't blaming him, but at the same time you are getting your point across that he shouldn't be calling your child stupid, no matter how nicely he says it!! Good luck!

 

[tnkr mom]

My son also celebrated reconcilliation yesterday and i would be LIVID if a priest called him "stupid", even using the word is negative and not what a child needs to hear during the first reconciliation process! Think about it they are scared already; the fear of the unknown and then he was knocked down by a priest for bearing his sins? I would be at the church already and I admire your patience in waiting until Monday. I feel the priest should with parents present, talk to your son about his words and lack of judgement in using it during the confessional. And kudos to your parenting skills for tying in the lack of judgement on the priests part.

 

[Atchley]

That a priest used the word "stupid" at all with your ds would make me mad. A priest is someone who should be more intelligent than to have to use such a demeaning word. Even if he meant that it was "stupid for him to fight with classmates" he could have found a much better way to get that point across to your son. He could have said that there are much better ways to express your anger or concerns with your classmates than to resort to arguing or fighting. I was raised catholic for many many years. I went so far as to make my confirmation and even had my two kids baptized in the catholic church. I am not a practicing catholic today. My kids have not made their first communion and we rarely ever go to church. I lost my faith in the catholic church many years ago. The fact that the priest, one of your DS teachers and mentors, said he was stupid about anything, is disturbing. You wouldn't want one of your childs teachers to say something like this to your child and he is no different.

Just my gut feeling here. No flames please. Please, Please keep a very close eye on this. A lot of bad people try to lower others self esteem in order to take advantage of them-in any way. Men do it with women they are abusing, parents demean their children, and worse. Again no flames. I just want your kids to be safe.

 

[Kallierollo]

I agree I would check on it. I went to Catholic school in the early 80's when there was still nuns teaching. Most are wonderful people who understand the purpose of their job. But, others get on the power trip and don't think kids will tell or the parents will do anything about it. Just the fact of the priest saying the word "stupid" to a 7 year old makes me wonder. The only logical thing that I could thing of for him saying that is if your son confessed to saying the word and he (priest) was just repeating it. Which I highly doubt since your son told you he said it in a mean way. Most kids at that age esp..in reconsiliation aren't going to lie. lol But other then that there is no excuse for it.

 

[Chereya]

You might want to avoid putting the priest on the spot and creating a situation where he might lie to you... After all, you HEARD the word stupid come out of his mouth although you did not hear the complete context. I would have a private chat with him and, without telling him you heard him say stupid, just mention that we don't use that word in our house and it was upsetting to your DS to have it used towards him. And that your DS feels that the father thinks he is stupid. That kind of lays out facts without any judgmental meanings behind it and puts the ball in the father's court as to how to respond.

At the least, I hope that he owns up to using inappropriate language with your DS and apologizes to him. If the father doesn't own up to saying stupid to your son, then I'd guess you have to figure out how you want to handle that for yourself and with your DS. Yes, we want our children to grow up feeling safe and secure in the trust we place with caretakers BUT you know that they can't always be trusted to have a child's best interests at heart. I know 7 may be kind of young, but it may be time to have that talk that even priests sin and lie sometimes and to always bring their concerns about other authority figures to you or DH.

Sorry that this is happening to you, best of luck in handling it and I hope it all works out.

 

[Amrita]

First of all my son will be making his first penance this week as well. Penance is supposed to be confidential. A parent is not supposed to be listening in.
If you have issues speak to the priest directly in a non accusatory manner.
My son also attends Catholic school. I attended Catholic school starting more than 25 years ago and the environment was nothing like other posters described. It was a tight nit family like atmosphere, and yes like any family there is structure and rules. I find it funny that people don't tend to like firmness or rules, yet my counterparts in public school, laissez faire environments didn't wind up as the ultimate achievers.
All this poster did was ask a question, and already lapsed Catholics are ready to jump all over Catholicism and priests in general.
As far as losing faith in the Catholic church, I find it very sad that people then find a reason to turn away from Jesus Christ in addition to the Church. This is very sad.

 

[Tam1067]

I'm a Catholic school product who now sends her kids to public school. DH (who went only to public schools) and the kids are at mass now while I'm at home doing this, so that'll show you my feelings about the Catholic church. I have many memories of mean priests and nuns from my Catholic school days, so I'm fairly confident your son is reporting the truth.

I do not believe confronting this priest will work. He will deny saying anything inappropriate, and he will make your child the goat. I'm sorry I can't help you more, but the priests I've known (that's many since my mom also worked at the church for many years so these priests were often at our house for holidays and such) will not admit to anything and will put you down for questioning their authority.

If I were you, I would tell my son the priest is wrong. It's important for you to do that because priests are used to having a God-like authority, and they instill that authority when they are in the school. Your kids need to know that priests are not God, nor are they always right. I would tell my son to report to me anything else the priest says. I would ask my son about every conversation with this priest. And then if the problem is persistent, I would pull my kids from that school.

That might seem harsh, but you will not "win" the battle. If the priest is a problem, he will continue to be, and your choice is to deal with it or remove yourself and your children from that situation.

 

[BellesFavoriteBook]

I would do what Amrita suggested: speak to the priest quietly in a non accusing manner.

I also attended Catholic school K-12 and never had the problems that others described.

 

[ilandrazdsw]

I'm not Catholic, but I am a teacher and parent. It is NEVER ok for an adult to tell a child that they are stupid...and there are so many other more appropriate descriptive ways to explain children's behavior too. I would say something ot the priest...first saying about DS' feelings of what were said, let him respond, if he says it was never said let him know you also heard it from outside the door. It may just take him a little time to find his "tone" in a new congregation, so also let him know what you do like about him like that he speak to the kids not over them.

I read what the next poster wrote...that confession is private. I would then in that case definately let the priest know that he was able to be heard by someone outside, even if every word/s was/were not clear...he needs to check himself for privacy of the confession and patron. He may have the title/position of priest, but he is still a human man.

 

[RMulieri]

I am a Catholic by birth , and though you are upset,Try not to approach the priest with an accusatory manner. First ,the sacrament of reconciliation is a private and confidential one ,even though it is your son, you really should not be listening in.Second, Though I personally don't approve of the word "stupid" being used, you have no idea what the context was that it was used in.If it is troubling you I would request a meeting with the father and approach the subject respectfully, but realize you are putting him on the spot and may not like or be satisfied with his response.AS for some of the other comments, Former Catholics that have left the church have done so for personal reasons and may harbor feelings of judgement and resentment towards the church.That does not mean that all Nuns,and priests are corrupt, mean,child molesting individuals. I think that despite whatever personal objections/feelings one may have,the Catholic Church receives some pretty negative press that is not always deserved. I myself no longer practice for personal reasons, but don't feel the need to bash or be hateful of the church.

 

[ruadisneyfan2]

I find it funny that people don't tend to like firmness or rules, yet my counterparts in public school, laissez faire environments didn't wind up as the ultimate achievers.
All this poster did was ask a question, and already lapsed Catholics are ready to jump all over Catholicism and priests in general.
As far as losing faith in the Catholic church, I find it very sad that people then find a reason to turn away from Jesus Christ in addition to the Church. This is very sad.

Just to clarify if this was directed at me:
1. Our boys have been baptized but not in a Cath. church. This isn't about turning away from Jesus.
2. I went to public schools and outearn my dh by more than $25k per year so please don't generalize about pub school vs. Cath for achievement.
3. I find it strange that you use the word "lapsed Catholics" like somehow their judgement is impaired or failed. Perhaps they just decided to make their own adult decisions rather than what their parents made them do as a child.

I was just telling dh's story/opinion, not knocking anyone. It's not a happy story but just being honest.

 

[connie1042]

I would want to know how he used the word stupid. I went to Catholic schools for 1-8 grades. I would never put my kids through that. I will say I learned to be a neater person, and was taught higher standards, but I did not realize it till many years later. We had 3 children. They were raised Catholic, church, not school. Only one is still attending a Catholic church, and not very often. I always told them that they could do what ever they wanted. We gave them the base and they took it from there.

 

[ms_missy66]

I am Catholic and haven't read the other responses because these threads tend to make me mad. Anyway, I would wholeheartedly suggest you talk to the priest. You heard it and your son told you even when you gently tried to guide him into defining how the word "stupid" was meant. Sweetie, you should 100% not feel apologetic about trying to get an answer. I do believe you can do it in a non-accusatory way. However, I believe part of the Catholic church's issues are caused by no one making people own their words and actions. Ask the priest and listen to what he has to say. Assure him you'll be discussing this with your son so perhaps he'll be less likely to spin the situation into something it wasn't. Respectfully make him own it. He is a role to educate your son about the values of the religion and in the bigger picture, values in life. Stress that you are on the same team as him in this and this is why you felt the need to talk it out.

I think I would be nervous about this meeting, but it's not okay for the priest to belittle your son by calling him stupid or his actions stupid. Priests are very educated. He has a responsibility to choose better words.

Hopefully something I said helped. *hugs* Good luck!

 

[Sillyminny40]

Talk to the priest. If it doesn't work, go to a different parish.

There are some great priests and some terrible ones. Any denomination has problems but the RC church is huge and they pop up more often.

 

[bellebud]

OP here... thanks for the responses so far!

so the way I said I was going to approach father monday morning - I didn't think it sounded accusatory. I thought it was as gentle as could be, and I won't do it in front of ds. I don't want to talk about it anymore w/ ds unless he brings it up.

If father doesn't give me an answer i'm happy w/, I'm going directly to the principal, then to the Sister who is really "in charge" of our school/church.

I didn't put this in my original post, but this DID send up red flags to me.

A few years ago our school started a program regarding child abuse. We had speakers come to the school a couple of times, and any parent who did any type of volunteering for the school had to do the program (watch a film and complete periodic question and answer articles via email). There were many rules talked about, like never be alone w/ a child in a room in the school, always keep doors open, and how to keep a look out for other adults trying to 'not' following these rules. Lots of talk about grooming and how to spot it, etc. I don't know what has happened to this program as of the last year, it just sort of disappeared.

anyway, when my dd did her reconciliation 2 years ago, the school/church RULE was they went in the room, but the door remained open. DS missed the regular reconciliation where it's a group thing, the teacher and parents are there, all the kids are there together. This was the regular church (Sat at 4pm every week) reconciliation, so ds was the only child there from our school. The other church members do the closed door thing. My ds was last in line, and the door has one of those long rectangular windows in it, and people were periodically walking by that door to go into the St. Joseph Room, so I was comfortable enough going along w/ the closed door thing. But I wasn't going to walk far away either and leave my ds7 in a room w/ a complete stranger. I was standing against the wall, not holding a glass or anything to the wall to listen, but I could hear and I wasn't going to walk away because of that. If it were someone else in there, I would have moved away a bit to give privacy, but again, this door was closed and I wasn't leaving my 7yo child in there and not be *right* there. So I do get the privacy thing w/ reconciliation.

as for my ds having any further conversations w/ father, it doesn't happen. the kids don't have interaction w/ the priests unless they're alter servers. father walks across the 'campus' a couple mornings a week to say prayer and pledge w/ the school (kids and parents who stay for this), then he leaves. The kids go to mass once a month w/ their teacher/class, and it's open to the public, so some of we parents go.

I'm really good for jumping ahead a few light years when things happen (i get it from my mom, and it annoys the heck out of me when she does it ), so I'm already picturing myself pulling the kids from school over this. I'm trying to reel myself back in from outer space right now. I appreciate all the responses - I'm 100% not ok w/ this, and I'm not nervous talking w/ father about it.

 

[Mkrop]

I am Catholic, went to 16 years of Catholic school, in two different states, and several different parishes, and I never experienced the horrible Catholic school experience before that people describe. I am always floored. My kids go to Catholic school now and no issues there either. I am 39.

I think this situation is also a generational thing. Some older folks use the word stupid like it is no big deal. and today we do not allow our kids to say it, we tell them it is a bad word. My SIL when she was in her 30s stopped speaking to my MIL bc my MIL said something that occurred was stupid, not my SIL was stupid. But all my SIL heard was that she was stupid. From reading your post, I am getting the impression that is how your DS interpreted what the priest said.

I would go and talk with the priest and tell him your DS was upset, I am sure that is was not his intention for your DS's First Penance. Give the guy the benefit of the doubt before you accuse him of saying it in a negative way. Dont get me wrong, the priest may be a jerk, they are out there just like in any profession, but dont assume anything until you talk with him.

 

[karen l]

I'm a practicing Catholic & my youngest DS attends Catholic school. I atttended 12 yrs of Catholic school & transferred my 3 children from public to Catholic and have no regrets. None of us ever had any problems with the schools, priests or personnel. Talk to the priest & see what he has to say before you make any decisions about your child's future. I hope everything work out for you.

 

[Erin1700]

Wow, I have a HUGE prob with my kids catholic teachings/first penance (next sat) but I wasnt sure there would be enough people on here to care to give advice about it! When I have time, I will post it!
Now, to the OP...I think maybe besides asking the priest, I would go next saturday to another parish at their regular confession time. I would tell your son to confess the exact same things again, this time to the different priest. I would hope and pray that this may be the wonderful experience you were hoping for for your son in the first place. You can show him how it was supposed to go and then maybe he will not have a complete turn off of going to confession.