Casey Anthony TRIAL thread #2

[chris1gill]

If he says at any point of time during the defense's case "if the shorts don't fit, you must acquit" I am going to buy a plane ticket to Orlando, hunt him down, and smack him. Who's willing to put me up for the night? I doubt if I can get a room thru DVC at this short of a notice.

I totally thought of that statement, if he says it I swear I'll lose my mind.

I will be I will be in Orlando throughout the Defense portion apparently, I'll put you up for a night!

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

I think Casey had possession up until it was towed. She likely was truthful with Baez on that, so they cannot use George having the car as his client didn't say that and he can't lie on behalf of his client if he knows it would be a lie. Casey didn't think that far ahead as she believed she would get away with it.

Baez was definitely trying to imply that Casey wasn't always in possession of the car and that George had a key. He's throwing George under the bus and saying that he was there that day when Caylee accidentally drowned, and all this evidence points to Caylee being in the car (which of course Baez is disputing), so it would seem that he'd want to put George in possession of the car, at least in the beginning. It's just that he's all over the place...fighting evidence, but then pointing the finger at George for the same evidence.

Defense to start case on Thursday

Wow, Mason is an A$$. Could have given the jury a day off but instead they will come in for a minor issue that could have been done Thurs am.

That, he is. I remember when Sonny Hostin on InSession said she liked his gentlemanly manner. ?? I can do without a "gentlemen" like that!

Lord, the defense really wants to play ugly. LDB stood to make sure that the minor evidence will be the only thing to do tomorrow as well as the defense argument for acquittal. She wanted to make sure that they could trust the defense and they don'tt pull any surprises and start their case tomorrow. Baez basically said, we don't need to tell you anything.. she answered "Yes you do"

All this after JP said the defense would start Thursday. Shows that no one trusts the defense. There is no love lost here.......

What a juvenile creep that man is.

It seems like Judge Perry was trying to HELP the defense by giving them that case and more or less telling them that is how they should handle Casey's calm demeanor.

Yeah, what's up with that? Is that to help avoid a mistrial, or a conviction overturned on appeal?

OK so now that they are about to rest their main case... who do you think was the prosecution's BEST witness?

The best? Dr G!!!! I've showed the video of Dr G and Mason to my DH, and then to my DS, and I was just while watching with them. She was awesome, and Mason was a weanie.

It really looks like the defense is trying to discredit everything. Those shorts aren't the right size, she wasn't in the car, she didn't decompose, that isn't her hair, that tree isn't a tree, the sky isn't really blue.....

Whatever they can to give the jury doubt!

No doubt the defense is all over the place - can't wait to see what bumbling fools they make out of themselves the next few days.

You know, funny enough I've never thought twice about what I would do if god forbid one of my kids did something bad, illegal. I'd turn them in myself. It's not that I would not still love them, however a crime is a crime and unfortunately if they put themselves in that position I would feel a moral obligation to report it... I feel bad for Cindy, terrible for her, but she didn't help fight this monster in the beginning and now this is what you've got.... it's terrible all the way around.

There was a woman profiled on 20/20 or 48 hours...one of those shows...who was a cop and turned her son in for murder. It was fascinating, and heartwrenching. I give her a ton of credit; I just cannot imagine.

Been lurking on this thread for awhile and wanted to weigh in on Bozo's questions about the shorts.

If he says at any point of time during the defense's case "if the shorts don't fit, you must acquit" I am going to buy a plane ticket to Orlando, hunt him down, and smack him. Who's willing to put me up for the night? I doubt if I can get a room thru DVC at this short of a notice.

Welcome to the thread! And I'm right there with you! That's the thought that came to my head, with all the whole "wrong size" issue.

My 3month old neice just passed away suddenly last month and my brother just had a memorial tattoo done of her footprints and name. It is on his shoulder, no necessarily easily seen, but a place where he wanted it. He didn't really want a tattoo that couldn't be covered for work or formal occassions.

Lots of to you and your family, woodkins.

 

[Belle0101]

Sorry for your family's loss woodkins.

I can't say with 100% certainty that Casey doesn't have a case for ineffective counsel but I strongly doubt that she does.

(Paraphrasing) The defendant needs to be able to prove that if their counsel were not ineffective the verdict would have been different.

As Judge Perry pointed out previously, Casey has 5 attorneys - Cheney Mason, Jose Baez, Dorothy Simms, Ann Finnell and the last one, I forget his / her name. I'm thinking it's the woman who is married to a death row inmate, maybe?

Jose has already had 1 client claim ineffective counsel and it was not accepted. That's not the actual legal word but basically he, the inmate, didn't have proof enough to be convincing.

We all may think Jose is a clown, I would never hire him, although I would strongly suggest him to anyone I didn't like. Look what he's got to work with.

Early on he and Casey were doing media tours and speaking as if Caylee really were just missing. I think he thought about the noteriety, the money, got caught in Casey's web, or something, and took her on as a client. He couldn't back out, like a number of attorneys did. I wonder if at some point he regretted taking her as a client, even if just for a second?

I just love how the media gets things wrong. I just heard on the news that the state rested and the defense will start their case tomorrow, Wednesday, morning.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

Sorry for your family's loss woodkins.

I can't say with 100% certainty that Casey doesn't have a case for ineffective counsel but I strongly doubt that she does.

(Paraphrasing) The defendant needs to be able to prove that if their counsel were not ineffective the verdict would have been different.

As Judge Perry pointed out previously, Casey has 5 attorneys - Cheney Mason, Jose Baez, Dorothy Simms, Ann Finnell and the last one, I forget his / her name. I'm thinking it's the woman who is married to a death row inmate, maybe?

Jose has already had 1 client claim ineffective counsel and it was not accepted. That's not the actual legal word but basically he, the inmate, didn't have proof enough to be convincing.

We all may think Jose is a clown, I would never hire him, although I would strongly suggest him to anyone I didn't like. Look what he's got to work with.

Early on he and Casey were doing media tours and speaking as if Caylee really were just missing. I think he thought about the noteriety, the money, got caught in Casey's web, or something, and took her on as a client. He couldn't back out, like a number of attorneys did. I wonder if at some point he regretted taking her as a client, even if just for a second?

I just love how the media gets things wrong. I just heard on the news that the state rested and the defense will start their case tomorrow, Wednesday, morning.

That's what I heard basically about ineffective counsel too, so I hope that (or anything else) doesn't lead to a conviction being overturned or a mistrial.

Maybe I should get some of his business cards to pass out to a few uh, "friends" of mine.

I don't think Baez regrets for a second getting involved in this case. He's like the obnoxious little kid we all know...the one who craves attention so much that any attention, even negative attention, works for him. Oh, I despise that man!

Maybe the media should be watching us rather than us watching the media so they can get their facts straight!

 

[Conservative Hippie]

Since I have personal knowledge of toddler clothes, thought I'd work this out for anyone worried about the size of the shorts...

Circo size chart:
24 month - 26.5-28 lbs, 33-35.5 inches (shorts in question were 24m Circo brand)
2T - 26.5-28 lbs, 33-35.5 inches
3T - 28.5-32 lbs, 36-38.5 inches

Carters size chart:
24 month - 27.5-30 lbs, 32.5–34 inches
2T - 29-31 lbs, 34.5-36.5 inches
3T - 31-34 lbs, 36.5-38.5 inches

So you can see that child clothing sizes (like adult sizes) are not uniform. A child might wear a different size in tops as in bottoms as well. So Cindy saying that Caylee wore a size 3T in the summer of 2008 doesn't really mean anything. Caylee would turn 3 at the end of the summer, so I'm sure Cindy would have bought her 3T clothing to grow into.

When my DD was 2 years, she was 25.5 lbs and 34" and at 3 years she was 29 lbs and 36.5". Assuming Caylee is roughly the same size (she looks like it from photos), she could easily wear a pair of 24m shorts at 18 months and the same pair of shorts a year later at 2 1/2. Cindy would not have bought Caylee a pair of 18m shorts for the summer of 2007, when she would turn 2 at the end of the summer, since you typically want clothes a child can grow into and wear for a while.

 

[Aisling]

Early on he and Casey were doing media tours and speaking as if Caylee really were just missing.

I wonder if Baez really thought Caylee was alive/just missing when he was hired.

 

[CurlyGirl]

She told the tattoo guy she would bring Caylee in for her next appt!

Was the "next appointment" the one after she got the Bella Vita tattoo?

If she told the tattoo guy she'd bring Caylee in for her next appt., and it was during or after getting the Bella Vita tattoo, then there is NO WAY that tattoo is a memorial tattoo!!

And, if that's the case, I hope someone brings up the fact that the tattoo cannot be a memorial tattoo if Casey made it appear to the tattoo guy that her child was still alive. Especially since the defense admits that Casey knew Caylee was dead on June 16 and she got the Bella Vita tattoo on July 2.

 

[CurlyGirl]

Jayne Weintraub (who I CAN'T STAND) is on HLN Issues with Jane Velez-Mitchell show and actually said that the tattoo is a form of commemorating her daughters' life. She then went on to say that the trial will end in a mistrial because it is obvious that the jury has talked about the trial and evidence amongst themselves since they asked to see the heart shaped sticker evidence again. Where was it mentioned that the jury asked to see evidence as a collective group or possibly just one of them????

When "the jury" asks to see something, it doesn't mean everyone wants to see it. It can mean a single juror, but they use the term "the jury" as opposed to "juror nmber 9". I don't know why. Maybe to not single one person out?

When I was a juror, if one person asked for a break, the judge would say "The jury needs a break." Well, not everyone needed the break. Maybe one or two jurors did but he used the term "the jury". I think a lot of these reporters are making assumptions that it was the entire jury and not just one or two people.

 

[CurlyGirl]

The defense is so desperate, it really is like throwing anything and everything at the wall and seeing what sticks.

My DD is 4 1/2 and is so thin she can still wear shorts that are 24 months, 2T, 3T and 4T, pants on the other hand she can pull up to her waist but they are "floods" so she doesn't wear them. At any given time I have 3 different sizes of clothes from several seasons becuase she also likes to have old stuff to wear around the house when she paints, colors etc.

And each company sizes differently, too. A pair of 2T Carters shorts might be bigger or smaller than a pair of 2T Circo shorts from Target. Sometimes you can look at two pairs of shorts in the same size from the same company and one pair might be a bit smaller than another pair.

I have often bought clothing a size up or down depending on how it was cut.

 

[Conservative Hippie]

When "the jury" asks to see something, it doesn't mean everyone wants to see it. It can mean a single juror, but they use the term "the jury" as opposed to "juror nmber 9". I don't know why. Maybe to not single one person out?

When I was a juror, if one person asked for a break, the judge would say "The jury needs a break." Well, not everyone needed the break. Maybe one or two jurors did but he used the term "the jury". I think a lot of these reporters are making assumptions that it was the entire jury and not just one or two people.

I thought about that as well (though I've never served on a jury). I was reading the tweets as the sticker was being passed around and some of the jurors seemed to glance and pass it on, while others were inspecting it more closely.

 

[Dee77]

When "the jury" asks to see something, it doesn't mean everyone wants to see it. It can mean a single juror, but they use the term "the jury" as opposed to "juror nmber 9". I don't know why. Maybe to not single one person out?

When I was a juror, if one person asked for a break, the judge would say "The jury needs a break." Well, not everyone needed the break. Maybe one or two jurors did but he used the term "the jury". I think a lot of these reporters are making assumptions that it was the entire jury and not just one or two people.

Believe me, I understand that it could have been any one member of the jury that asked for the evidence, what I was shocked about was that a Florida Attorney like Jayne Weintraub actually made such a generalized statement like she did, that it "clearly shows that the jury has been discussing the case amongst themselves and therefore it could lead to a mistrial" etc and then she has the nerve to blow up at Mike Brooks (a law enforcement analyst, not an attorney) about speculating on the show..

 

[Conservative Hippie]

NG is talking about the shorts size again. Was Caylee potty trained? If so, shorts that were too small for her at one point may once again have fit when she was out of diapers.

Very good point. "Month" sizes usually have a little more room than "T" sizes to adjust for a diaper.

I had also wondered if potty training could have been something that set Casey off. If you have potty trained you know it's a 24 hour job for sometimes several weeks. 2 1/2 is about the right age as well to be potty training or have just finished. Casey could have been irritated at the potty training demands and decided Caylee wasn't a cute accessory anymore (along with being able to talk and disprove her lies). Or Casey could have been jealous of the extra attention Cindy was giving Caylee while potty training - I'm sure Cindy did most of the the work regardless.

 

[hellokitty86]

Good thing they only showed her left shoulder in that pic cause the pic showing her entire back is NOT attractive.

I know! and I'm guessing the jail doesn't pay for many visits to the dermatologist.

$65 for the tat

she over paid for it since it's crappy

Defense to start case on Thursday

Wow, Mason is an A$$. Could have given the jury a day off but instead they will come in for a minor issue that could have been done Thurs am.

If I said what I thought about that man I would be banned!

I love Judge Perry!! He just cracks me up. I would love to know what he really thinks about Casey's defense attorneys .

He's hilarious!

i'm actually ok with no court tomorrow - have to go back downtown for another scan and long conversation with dr's about Nicole.

i wanna see the defence start their case

Good luck at your appointment tomorrow.

I would never hire him, although I would strongly suggest him to anyone I didn't like.

Funniest thing I've read in a long time!!

 

[Iheartdis]

I remember back on June 16, 2008 Casey tried to make a bunch of phone calls to Cindy. Does anyone know if Casey tried to call her father multiple times too? My theory on this case is that Casey was giving Caylee chloroform so she could go out and party. However, I don't think that's how Caylee died. If you look at all of Casey's lies, alot of them are PARTIALLY true. I think Caylee did drown in the pool but not by accident. I believe Casey and Caylee came back to the house after George had left for the day. I think Casey drowned her and then tried to call her mom and dad to tell them that Caylee drowned accidentally (trying to set up her story) but when she couldn't get through to her mom or dad she panicked and removed her from the pool and set her by the playhouse (could be the reason why the dogs smelled the decomposition) and tried to figure out what to do next. Here's where I get confused as to what she did with the body though. Perhaps this is when she put her in the trunk of the car. But then I'm not sure why she would borrow the shovel the next day from the neighbor. I think she used the duct tape to try and make it look like she was kidnapped and murdered. Now if she was trying to call George the same way she was trying to call Cindy and couldn't get through to him then that would prove George had no idea what happened. I wish I had phone records. I don't know if this theory makes sense to anyone else. Thoughts?

 

[CurlyGirl]

I remember back on June 16, 2008 Casey tried to make a bunch of phone calls to Cindy. Does anyone know if Casey tried to call her father multiple times too? My theory on this case is that Casey was giving Caylee chloroform so she could go out and party. However, I don't think that's how Caylee died. If you look at all of Casey's lies, alot of them are PARTIALLY true. I think Caylee did drown in the pool but not by accident. I believe Casey and Caylee came back to the house after George had left for the day. I think Casey drowned her and then tried to call her mom to tell her that Caylee drowned accidentally (trying to set up her story) but when she couldn't get through to her panicked and removed her from the pool and set her by the playhouse (could be the reason why the dogs smelled the decomposition) and tried to figure out what to do next. Here's where I get confused as to what she did with the body though. Perhaps this is when she put her in the trunk of the car. But then I'm not sure why she would borrow the shovel the next day from the neighbor. I think she used the duct tape to try and make it look like she was kidnapped and murdered. Now if she was trying to call George the same way she was trying to call Cindy and couldn't get through to him then that would prove George had no idea what happened. I wish I had phone records. I don't know if this theory makes sense to anyone else. Thoughts?

I agree with this scenario with the exception of the drowning part. I don't think that Caylee drowned ... accidental or otherwise. I think it was combination of too much Xanax or too much chloroform (or both). I think that the duct tape was post-mortem in an attempt to make her death look like a kidnap/murder to cover up what really happened.

I'd be willing to believe that the other explanation could be that Casey duct taped her mouth after drugging/chloroforming her to keep her quiet when she woke up. I'd be willing to go with the duct tape covered her nose as well as her mouth and she might've suffocated if not already dead from Xanax and/or chloroform scenario.

However, my gut feeling goes with Casey was dead from overdose when the duct tape was put on her mouth. To me, drowning seems like something that was thrown out there with hopes it would stick.

Would there be chlorine residue in the bones if she drowned? And am I to understand that the ME did not test for chlorine?

If the victim were a drowning victim and that could prove your case that cause of death was drowning (over drugs, chloroform and duct tape), why wouldn't you test for chlorine?

So the question begs to be asked ... were the bones tested before or after the whole "drowning" story came to light? Because, wouldn't it be in the defense's best interest to have the bones tested for chlorine in order to say "this was an accidental drowning and not death due to duct tape and drugs"? Isn't it better to have proof positive that this was a drowning? That way, it's more "believable" that the drowning was accidental, that Casey panicked, blah blah blah??? I mean, I'd think it's more difficult to prove whether or not the drowning was accidental.

ETA that, even if Casey did drown Caylee on purpose, she STILL could've called 911 in a panic stating that she found her kid floating in the pool and they need to send an ambulance over. If she would've called 911 and reported an accidental drowning, she would be in far less trouble than she is in now. My guess is that they would've done an autopsy, found pool water in the lungs, and closed it as an accident. This is what leads me to believe there was no drowning (accidental or otherwise). If you were going to kill someone, especially a toddler who probably wouldn't put up much of a struggle, I think faking an accidental drowning might be the best way to do it!

 

[richmond282]

I agree with this scenario with the exception of the drowning part. I don't think that Caylee drowned ... accidental or otherwise.

Would there be chlorine residue in the bones if she drowned? And am I to understand that the ME did not test for chlorine?

If the victim were a drowning victim and that could prove your case that cause of death was drowning (over drugs, chloroform and duct tape), why wouldn't you test for chlorine?

So the question begs to be asked ... were the bones tested before or after the whole "drowning" story came to light? Because, wouldn't it be in the defense's best interest to have the bones tested for chlorine in order to say "this was an accidental drowning and not death due to duct tape and drugs"? Isn't it better to have proof positive that this was a drowning? That way, it's more "believable" that the drowning was accidental, that Casey panicked, blah blah blah??? I mean, I'd think it's more difficult to prove whether or not the drowning was accidental.

From what I have read, the Anthony's pool did not have chlorine in it, but instead they used bacquasil (or however you spell it.) I'm unclear as to why bones would have chlorine in them anyway? I think this has already been discussed. I'm sure someone else will correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Belle0101]

(August 2008) Article wherein the State of Florida is reported to have offered some form of immunity to Casey. Baez didn't have much to say about it really.

http://www.wftv.com/news/17090663/detail.html

He refers to Caylee as "missing".

 

[Seahunt]

Re the clothes, I thought it was strange that Cindy said she had never seen that shirt - really? With Caylee living at her house, I would have bet Cindy knew every piece of clothing Caylee had. I'd like to know where and when Casey got that shirt then? Makes me think of Casey's comment "They haven't even found her clothes yet" (in the Mclaughlin post below)....

And hmmm, well not exactly the same wording, but this is from one of Casey's postings:

BTW if you haven't seen some of Casey's icons, this photobucket link shows some of them copied over from her myspace accounts, etc.

I started to count the number she had with hearts on them, but gave up at 25

http://s611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/CaseyAnthonyIcons/

Wonder if prosecution will call the guy from Equisearch who bailed Casey out of jail as a witness?

Tim Miller is the good guy from Equusearch, but he didn't bail Casey out of jail. He brought his team and many volunteers and searched for Caylee. Cindy "fired" him right after he told her he felt that Caylee might be deceased, and Cindy would not accept that, she wanted to believe the kidnapping story. And since we now know that Casey knew that Caylee was deceased the whole time Equusearch was there searching, I feel strongly that Equusearch should be reimbursed when Casey gets her $$$ from book, movie deals, etc.

It was Leonard Padilla the bondsman/bounty hunter from California who bailed Casey out. He also had one of his female investigators stay in the home with Casey when she was released. Her name was Tracy McLaughlin and:

she told the investigators that Casey was critical of other people looking for Caylee. When the subject came up Casey remarked, “They haven’t even found the clothes she was wearing.” Leonard Padilla says that statement has convinced him that Casey knows exactly where those clothes are and where her daughter is. Padilla says, “Everything’s a game to her. That statement, they haven’t even found the clothes yet, leads us to believe the clothing were somewhere but not in the proximity of the body.”

http://justice4caylee.forumotion.net/t1208-who-s-who-in-the-anthony-case

I would love to hear what Ms. McLaughlin saw in the house!

 

[Belle0101]

(August 2008) Article wherein the pool theory is reported on.

http://www.wftv.com/news/17136493/detail.html

A quote by Lee from the article:

Lee was asked if he thought his sister was being truthful.

"To the best of her ability right now, I do," he said.

Call me crazy, but that's kind of a strange answer.

 

[CurlyGirl]

From what I have read, the Anthony's pool did not have chlorine in it, but instead they used bacquasil (or however you spell it.) I'm unclear as to why bones would have chlorine in them anyway? I think this has already been discussed. I'm sure someone else will correct me if I'm wrong.

If Xanax is a chemical and can be found in the bones, couldn't other traces of chemicals (ie: chlorine) be found in the bones? Chlorine is a chemical and wouldn't it be absorbed into the bones if a body full of it is left to decompose?

And, since the Anthony family used Bacquasil, can bones be tested for traces of that since it's a chemical as well? Would it absorb into the bones?

I'm just wondering if bones were/could've been traced for any pool chemicals to establish drowning?