Carded at Target

[bicker]

Actually, retailers are not prohibited by law from requiring proof of identity, or age, for anything. The only even remotely-applicable laws that place any remotely-applicable (federal) restrictions are those that prohibit discrimination on the basis of being a member of a protected class.

Consumers, of course, can refuse to patronize a retailer.

 

[kaytieeldr]

There is no way that a cashier would mistake any 40+ year old woman for a 20-year old girl. None. Zip.

Requiring ID from every customer avoids offending customers in a way that "ID required if you look under ___" does not. It's simple diplomacy, and cashiers don't have to make judgment calls.

 

[npmommie]

So basically you're mad because Target followed federal guidelines and you were inconvenienced?

Oh jeezz, look another person who feels they are entitled.

Just in case you did not know. Tobacco, tobacco products and alcohol are regulated items. Sellers are supposed to make sure they are not purchased by any one under 18 or 21 (depending on the item). If the person is in doubt they are legally required to ask for identification or verification of age.

Target is well within their rights to ask for ID.

Target has the right to make their own policy, but it is not a federal regulation for them to gather my information and scan it into their unprotected system.
and no I don't feel entitled. that was kind of rude when you don't know me at all.

I'm sure this has been answered (responding immediately after reading the post) but... because, to ensure that the cashiers comply with the regulations/rules, the cash registers are programmed to not allow the transaction to continue without the birth date.

As has been stated several times in this thread, ID is needed because, interestingly enough, people do lie about their ages. If you don't want your ID scanned, do as robinb plans - show your license in your wallet.

showing my license was not good enough in this instance, which i would have gone out to get it if it was. scanning it was required as has been mentioned several times already.

I can't understand why people get mad because some one does not allow them to BREAK RULES.

Op. here are the federal guidelines on sales of tobacco products.

Section 9. Minimum Age Sales - Under this Act, It shall be unlawful:
a. For any retailer or tobacco products to sell or distribute tobacco products to any minor;
b. For any person to purchase cigarettes or tobacco products from a minor;
c. For a minor to sell or buy cigarettes or any tobacco products; and
d. For a minor to smoke cigarettes or any other tobacco products.

It shall not be a defense for the person selling or distributing that he/she did not know or was aware of the real age of the minor. Neither shall it be a defense that he/she did not know nor had any reason to believe that the cigarette or any other tobacco product was for the consumption of the minor to whom it was sold.

Section 10. Sale of Tobacco Products Within School Perimeters - The sale or distribution of tobacco products is prohibited within one hundred (100) meters from any point of the perimeter of a school, public playground or other facility frequented particularly by minors.

Section 11. Signage - Point-of-Sale establishments offering, distributing or selling tobacco products to consumers, shall post the following statement in a clear and conspicuous manner: "SALE/DISTRIBUTION TO OUR PURCHASE BY MINORS OF TOBACCO PRODUCTS IS UNLAWFUL" or " IT IS LAWFUL FOR TOBACCO PRODUCTS TO BE SOLD/DISTRIBUTED TO OR PURCHASED BY PERSONS UNDER 18 YEARS OF AGE".

Section 12. Proof Of Age Verification - In case of doubt as to the age of the buyer, retailers shall verify, by means of any valid from of photographic identification containing the date of birth of the bearer, that no individual purchasing a tobacco is below eighteen (18) years of age.



Take your complaint up with the feds

that is all well and good but in your quote, it says right there, in case of doubt. which means they do NOT have to scan anything into a system. and trust me there is not a doubt an over 40 year old is 18. sorry nada zip.

No they are not required. I never said they were but they have the RIGHT to ask for id if they feel there is some ambiguity and obviously that particular taget felt the need to do so. As the regulations IF there is some doubt the retailer can ask for id and refuse the sale.

no they did not ask me because there was ambiguity in my age, please, i wish!! LOL. their system is set up to scan in a license, the mgr told me, they cannot just manually enter a birthday or hit a yes key.

I think the problem here is that its a new thing for most people. Personally, I've never had to get anything yet that I've been carded for (meaning drug wise). People are caught off guard by it, especially since the last time they got "it" "it" was on the regular shelf, in the middle of the store, and it was a non-issue.
Personally, I wouldn't really mind someone looking at my licence or whatever, but it would bother me that they scan it. Why are they doing that? Where is that scan going? Is it just for the store your in, or is the government keeping track of how much tylanol I'm getting for the 5 year old?
What if I have 10 kids, and they all have a fever at once, and I need a lot of bottles. Is that a problem, and whos it a problem for (meaning why are the scanning my licence, and who/where is it going to)?
People are allowed to ask these questions, and even get annoyed when this stuff happens. Its all because its new to them, and they don't understand it.... As long as no one starts yelling at the cash register kid.

this is exactly my point. telling a birthdate, or having them just look at the birthdate is fine, but scanning it in in my opinion is not acceptable to me in this instance when it is not required by law.

There is no way that a cashier would mistake any 40+ year old woman for a 20-year old girl. None. Zip.

exactly.

Moot point. The store is well within it's right to ask any and every body for ID when selling federally regulated pharmaceuticals, fire arms, tobacoo or alcohol. Maybe the cashier was instructed by her supervisor to card every body. Maybe that is the stores overall policy.
Whatever. If you wish to purchase these items, you may be asked for ID, whether you are 4, 14, 44 or 94. You do have the right to politely refuse and move on.
Nowadays in most states, if you wish to buy cold or allegy medicine with decongestion in it you must produce a valid license or some other form of id and you are only allowed to purchase a specific quantity. Don't like it, speak to your representative. The store will comply with regulations.

Non vent.

Manhattans use cherries as garnish just like martinis typically use olives.

The cash register is set up the way it is to protect the store. It's as simple as this: If the system requires that everyone be carded, there is no way that someone will get through without being carded. This guarantees that no fines will be leveled against the store and takes one risk of having to fire a cashier off the table.

I'm guessing you misunderstood her post. She was fine with them checking her id, but there was no need to scan it.

Here a store called Winners, had a security breach and someone made off with alot of personal information. In the investigation, they found out that they never needed most of the stolen information, customers just willingly supplied it, ID like a drivers license.

Target is simply a store they have no expertise in storing private information, so they shouldn't store it.

exactly.
I would have gone out to get the id, but early in the conversation which was polite btw.....i learned that it had to be scanned.
when i said to the manager i can tell you my birthdate to put it in,she told me right then and there the license had to go into the register.


and yes i choose to take my business elsewhere.

and i don't think walmart, cvs, and rite aid ( all places where i have purchased this product) are breaking any law. you can't tell me a huge company like walmart would knowingly break a federal requirement regarding selling nicotine.
the register comes up with the question is customer 18, the clerk then has the option of asking for ID if there is doubt, like in the fed reg posted,and they then hit the yes or no key.
in my case they never in any of those other stores i mentioned have asked to see my id.
i do not look 18. there is no doubt, so there is no need to ask for ID. so they don't they just hit yes and we move on and complete the sale.

 

[sbell111]

You do agree about the cherries in manhattans thing, right?

 

[sbell111]

Target is simply a store they have no expertise in storing private information, so they shouldn't store it.

Objection. Assumes facts not in evidence.

I have no reason to believe that Target does not have professionals on staff who have a great deal of knowledge on this subject.

this is exactly my point. telling a birthdate, or having them just look at the birthdate is fine, but scanning it in in my opinion is not acceptable to me in this instance when it is not required by law.

I disagree. Requiring the cashier to scan the license protects the company from laziness and bad acts.

and i don't think walmart, cvs, and rite aid ( all places where i have purchased this product) are breaking any law. you can't tell me a huge company like walmart would knowingly break a federal requirement regarding selling nicotine.
the register comes up with the question is customer 18, the clerk then has the option of asking for ID if there is doubt, like in the fed reg posted,and they then hit the yes or no key.

Setting up the system to allow a cashier to merely hit 'yes or no' opens the store up to potential fines caused by the laziness or bad acts of a cashier.

Haven't we all shopped in a store and had the cashier swipe a random 'savings' card instead of asking for ours or to enter a random zip code instead of asking for ours? Laziness happens.

Do we not realize that kids sometimes cheat for their friends? Theater employees sometimes let their buds in for free. Restaurant employees give their friends free food. Cashiers fail to check their friend's licenses. Bad acts happen.

 

[npmommie]

You do agree about the cherries in manhattans thing, right?

LOL if you mean me, yes I agree!!

I served many a manhattan in my cocktail waitress days in college LOL

 

[robinb]

You do agree about the cherries in manhattans thing, right?

Here in Wisconsin we drink manhattans made from brandy. If you order it "sweet" you get cherries *and* a dash of cherry juice.

 

[mishasmom]

I can't believe that it doesn't bother people that stores want to SCAN your DL info into their computer. I have no problem showing my ID, but I don't want them scanning it. There is a lot more info on that magnetic strip than what is actually printed on your DL. We have no idea what info they are gathering, how they are securing it or what they are doing with it. And that info is NONE of their business. Assuming you also pay with a credit card and they scan your DL someone at that store now has a TON of info on you - easily enough to steal your identity or sell it to someone else. And we hear about that happening all the time. Or people hacking into computers and stealing it. This is just one more place where we'll be vulnerable.

I bought a lotto ticket at Circle K and she carded me and scanned my DL before I knew what was happening. I'm done shopping at Circle K now.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

.

and i don't think walmart, cvs, and rite aid ( all places where i have purchased this product) are breaking any law. you can't tell me a huge company like walmart would knowingly break a federal requirement regarding selling nicotine.
the register comes up with the question is customer 18, the clerk then has the option of asking for ID if there is doubt, like in the fed reg posted,and they then hit the yes or no key.
in my case they never in any of those other stores i mentioned have asked to see my id.
i do not look 18. there is no doubt, so there is no need to ask for ID. so they don't they just hit yes and we move on and complete the sale.

Perhaps they have an issue with fake licenses?

As for stating your birthdate--if you were carded, you were carded. So even if they didn't have to key or scan it into the system, I Would have never takne someone's "word" that their birthdate was when they said it was.

Not worth loss of job or jailtime.

So keying or not--I could see why you would have still had to supply the physical id.

If they have a policy to card everyone, you can have a policy to just not shop there.

But as it becomes more difficult to separate the liars from the truth tellers, this may become increasingly difficult for you.


It is probably cheaper for the store to decline a sale to you than to risk a $50,000 fine b/c suzie thought Freddy looked 18 but was only 14.

Put the blame where it belongs--all those kids with the fake id's.

I remember buying cigarettes for my mom as a kid with a note from her. This was back about 1982. Not sure if it was totally against the law or not--but it did get to a point where they had to stop. Evidently my mom's note wasn't a good enough vouch that I wasn't going to smoke the cigarettes.

I'm sure back then that many parents got their panties in a wad that they couldn't send junior to buy their smokes anymore. Such injustice.

But that's what happens when there are too many dishonest people. Makes the rules tighter for everyone and much less convenient.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I can't believe that it doesn't bother people that stores want to SCAN your DL info into their computer. I have no problem showing my ID, but I don't want them scanning it. There is a lot more info on that magnetic strip than what is actually printed on your DL. We have no idea what info they are gathering, how they are securing it or what they are doing with it. And that info is NONE of their business. Assuming you also pay with a credit card and they scan your DL someone at that store now has a TON of info on you - easily enough to steal your identity or sell it to someone else. And we hear about that happening all the time. Or people hacking into computers and stealing it. This is just one more place where we'll be vulnerable.

I bought a lotto ticket at Circle K and she carded me and scanned my DL before I knew what was happening. I'm done shopping at Circle K now.

True--but grocery stores have been taking DL numbers for years--before the advent of the debit card that has steered people from writing checks.

Now sure there is other information on your DL--so maybe it freaks people out that it is getting scanned and possibly stored--but the stores have been getting your information for more than a couple of decades now.

The more fraud committed-the tighter the rules.

 

[sbell111]

I can't believe that it doesn't bother people that stores want to SCAN your DL info into their computer. I have no problem showing my ID, but I don't want them scanning it. There is a lot more info on that magnetic strip than what is actually printed on your DL. We have no idea what info they are gathering, how they are securing it or what they are doing with it. And that info is NONE of their business. Assuming you also pay with a credit card and they scan your DL someone at that store now has a TON of info on you - easily enough to steal your identity or sell it to someone else. And we hear about that happening all the time. Or people hacking into computers and stealing it. This is just one more place where we'll be vulnerable.

I bought a lotto ticket at Circle K and she carded me and scanned my DL before I knew what was happening. I'm done shopping at Circle K now.

What information do you believe is on this mag strip?

I did a quick search and found that California licenses use the following format:

There will be a magnetic stripe on the back with three tracks encoded on it.
The middle track will be encoded in the same format as your credit cards,
and will therefore be readable with ordinary commercial readers. This track
will only contain 40 bytes of information, and will only contain the name,
driver's license number, and expiration date. The other two tracks will be
in a format that is incompatible with current commercial readers, and will
contain the rest of the information that is printed on the front: birth
date, eye color, hair color, height, weight etc.

According to wiki, this is the data on the three tracks:

The data stored on magnetic stripes on American driver's licenses is specified by the American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators (AAMVA). Not all states use a magnetic stripe on their driver's licenses. For a list of those that do, see the AAMVA list of US License Technology. The AAMVA site also contains a list of the Canadian jurisdictions that use magnetic stripes on their driver's licenses.

The following data is stored on track 1:

• Start Sentinel - one character (generally '%')
• State or Province - two characters
• City - variable length (seems to max out at 13 characters)
• Field Separator - one character (generally '^') (absent if city reaches max length)
• Last Name - variable length
• Field Separator - one character (generally '$')
• First Name - variable length
• Field Separator - one character (generally '$')
• Middle Name - variable length
• Field Separator - one character (generally '^')
• Home Address (house number and street) - variable length
• Field Separator - one character (generally '^')
• Unknown (spaces on mine) - variable length
• End Sentinel - one character (generally '?')

The following data is stored on track 2:

• ISO Issuer Identifier Number (IIN) - 6 digits
• Drivers License / Identification Number - 8 digits
• Field Separator — generally '='
• Expiration Date (YYMM) - 4 digits
• Birth date (YYYYMMDD) - 8 digits
• DL/ID# overflow

The following data is stored on track 3:

• Template V#
• Security V#
• Postal Code
• Class
• Restrictions
• Endorsements
• Sex
• Height
• Weight
• Hair Color
• Eye Color
• ID#
• Reserved Space
• Error Correction
• Security

Given this, I'm not prepared to get upset by the card being scanned. After all, the only info that they would get is DL#, expiration date, and birth date.

 

[merryweather20]

Objection. Assumes facts not in evidence.

I have no reason to believe that Target does not have professionals on staff who have a great deal of knowledge on this subject.

Oops! On you. The facts were in my original post. Not to mention you just backed them up. You're assuming they have professionals on staff to deal with it. You didn't bother to check at all.

 

[Free4Life11]

Nyquil, or the store brand? It's got enough alcohol in it that, yes, the stores require (or should) proof of age before they can sell it to you.

Cough supressant.

I've never been carded when buying rubbing alcohol.

 

[sbell111]

Oops! On you. The facts were in my original post. Not to mention you just backed them up. You're assuming they have professionals on staff to deal with it. You didn't bother to check at all.

Here are your previous posts:

Are you kidding here? So I can shop with my Mom when I'm 5, but not when I'm 18?

When my Mom was alive I'd regularly go shopping with her and my grandmother in the states and she might pick up a case of beer for my Dad. Really, you think I should have to stay home? And what age do I have to stop grocery shopping with the family 10, 11, is 12 to old?

You miss read her post. The cashier would have allowed a Mom with a 5 year-old to purchase liquor, but wanted to card a teen-to-twenty.

The subsequent responder said this was fine because the 5 year-old wouldn't be drinking liquor but the teen might.

That doesn't make sense they are both children with Mom.

I'm guessing you misunderstood her post. She was fine with them checking her id, but there was no need to scan it.

Here a store called Winners, had a security breach and someone made off with alot of personal information. In the investigation, they found out that they never needed most of the stolen information, customers just willingly supplied it, ID like a drivers license.

Target is simply a store they have no expertise in storing private information, so they shouldn't store it.

Please show me where one of your posts addressed whether or not Target had professionals to handle data security? Remember, you were the one asserting that they did not. The onus is on you to show that this assertion is correct.

 

[Free4Life11]

Please show me where one of your posts addressed whether or not Target had professionals to handle data security? Remember, you were the one asserting that they did not. The onus is on you to show that this assertion is correct.

Good grief, this is a message board not a court room. She doesn't want to swipe her damn drivers license to purchase something at Target. Get over it!

 

[sbell111]

Good grief, this is a message board not a court room. She doesn't want to swipe her damn drivers license to purchase something at Target. Get over it!

I think that everyone will agree that if she doesn't wish to swipe her ID that she is welcome to shop somewhere that doesn't require it. However, that doesn't change the fact that she aught not make statements unless she knows them to be true. For all we know, Target has an entire department full of data security professionals. After all, most companies now have such professionals on staff. It's somewhat surprising that Winners did not. Of course, that was two years ago.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Cough supressant.

I've never been carded when buying rubbing alcohol.

Good point - thanks!

 

[Papa Deuce]

When I was 46 I was carded for buying cough medicine at CVS. When I asked why I was told that people can use it to make methamphetimine... So, that was cool, I guess, that they asked.

BTW, I know of a small grocery store that won't sell pure vanilla extract to kids.... drink enough and you can get very drunk on it.

 

[sunnydoozer]

Here are your previous posts:



Please show me where one of your posts addressed whether or not Target had professionals to handle data security? Remember, you were the one asserting that they did not. The onus is on you to show that this assertion is correct.

You quoted her post where the Winners stores were violated.

If you want to assume everyone will keep your data safe, you go ahead and swipe your card wherever you like. I enjoyed your post where you listed off the information on a drivers license, it was way more than needed to apply for credit in your name, but it didn't bother you.

Target is a store much like any other. What you see is what you get. You can certainly assume they have Mission Impossible style security if you want

After the authorities investigated Winners they got a hefty fine for keeping the ID's on file and for storing credit card information longer than required. I'll take the advice of the authorities and only give out my drivers license to those that need the information

 

[bumbershoot]

I'm OK being carded. I'm sad that I haven't been carded in a couple years...sigh.

I've read repeatedly that asking for ID along with a credit card (not for age-dependent purchases, but for knowing you are who your card says you are) absolutely violates the agreements made with the credit card companies. Now...I don't mind it, personally...but they (cashiers and the management telling them to do it) aren't going along with what they (the business) signed...

Basically, this means that it is illegal for my straight-A, grad class president, sports-playing 17-year old brother to drive an inebriated friend home from a party at 2:00am. Someone always ruins things for the good people...

Your brother couldn't drive home anyway from that party. And what's he doing at a party until 2am? Fact is, he's a newbie driver and he shouldn't be driving then at all, let ALONE with the ridiculous distraction of a drunk person. Talk about unsafe! Thank that law, it's saving your brother. Tell your brother to come home earlier, or just stay over. Same with his friend.

Requiring ID from every customer avoids offending customers in a way that "ID required if you look under ___" does not. It's simple diplomacy, and cashiers don't have to make judgment calls.

I agree. When working at a bar I hated asking for ID from people I thought might be too young, so I started doing it with everyone. Made it much easier on me.


OH, and we can't buy liquor at grocery stores here, only liquor stores, but those liquor stores state clearly that you can't be in there if you're a minor...unless you're with a 21+ adult. So I could take my 5 year old in, and in 15 years I could take him in as a 20 year old, no problems (unless they change things).

I've always taken the laws here to mean that a minor can't *touch* the booze. I even keep my 5 year old's hands off of beer when buying it. I haven't taken him into a liquor store (well, hmm, maybe as a baby), but if I did it would be a "hands at your sides" experience, and not just b/c of all the glass bottles.

When I was 21/22 and workign at that bar, I was at a party and needed to go to the liquor store. Some questionable party guests made me take them (oh they were annoying) and insisted on coming in even though they weren't buying anything, and when I went through the checkout I went through ALONE and left that store. When they came out, yep, they'd been carded and they were underage. Grr. College town party...