Car seat on airplane? Thoughts?

[tlbwriter]

Originally quoted by tlbwriter:



As I had mentioned in my earlier post, the REAL issue here is the recent announcement by the FAA that they will not ban lap sit children on US carriers in leu of restraining them in an approved restraint in a seat because the FAA does not want to discourage air travel by families with small children.

And tlbwriter illustrated this very well. That is the REAL issue, more worthy of discussion than making global generalities and then claiming that you didn't.

And I already mentioned the airline I fly for.
Originally quoted by tlbwriter:


As far as I'm concerned, you can walk to your destination!

Hmmm... no attention to detail *and* can't take a joke. And refuses to answer simple questions. I thought only doctors thought they were God.

You know what? If you can show me where either I or NotUrsula said impacts were common, I'll admit you're right and I'll apologize. But I know you can't do it, because neither of us said that. And if you'd bother to read posts before you reply to them, you would have realized that. There were posts that said certain types of incidents are more common than others. I have asked you if you can deny this is true, and you have refused. Therefore, one can only assume that you know it IS true. (And, again, if you didn't know whether it was true or not, or if you said it was untrue for your airline, I would *choose* to walk to any destination rather than fly on your airline. )

Anyway, it is ridiculous that you have taken a perfectly good, informative thread and tried to twist it into a personal insult. Completely ridiculous.

 

[tlbwriter]

Last time we took our seat DD was 2 and we took our Britax...it was horribe. It took forever to buckle into the seat and we could not get it off. (The belt slipped behind the seat and the buckle was inside....it took my 13 year olds skinny arm stuck into the car seat to unbuckle the seat belt to get it out...it was HORRIBLE and took such a long time I thought we were going to miss our connection.

Sometimes you need to twist the belt so the buckle faces the other way when you install the seat. It's a pity more flight attendants aren't trained in this area and available to help

We always get her a seat but the last time we didnt use the car seat coming home just the belt. I think a booster would be a better choice.

You can't use a booster seat on an airplane. Boosters can only be used with a shoulder harness, which commercial aircraft do not have, and they are not approved by the FAA for use on airlines.

 

[NotUrsula]

As I had mentioned in my earlier post, the REAL issue here is the recent announcement by the FAA that they will not ban lap sit children on US carriers in leu of restraining them in an approved restraint in a seat because the FAA does not want to discourage air travel by families with small children.

Yes, I got that, which makes it surprising that you seemed so concerned with the semantics of what is and isn't an impact. I'll concede to your expertise on impacts -- so noted.

The thing is, your surprise at the FAA's reasoning is more shocking to me than the reasoning itself. Just as you pointed out, the regulation covering use of CRS' has existed in something very close to its current form for years. However, so has the argument that has prevented a ban on lap-children. I have read the very same arguments and the very same conclusion in FAA reports on the subject going back as far as 1986. I find your reaction quite surprising because you say that you have been a commercial pilot for a very long time; surely you realize that the airlines are the principal lobby influencing the FAA's decision not to require child restraints?

FA's and pilots support the use of CRS', physicians and representatives of the NTSB are for them, yet the FAA consistently declines to require them. They have been using this same argument since the days of the dual mandate, and that is the key to why they are using it; because it promotes flying. (BTW, there is a bill currently before the Aviation Subcommittee that would restore the FAA's dual mandate and put back the duty to promote aviation, HR2787.)

If the deciding factor was really about families choosing to fly instead of drive because of the cost of the add'l seat, then why have they not mandated the use of CRS' for children over 24 mos. but under 40 lbs., who already have to have their own ticket? I'll tell you why, because the airlines don't want to have to be the ones enforcing the rule and telling city dwellers who don't own cars that they will have to buy an approved CRS before Jr. can fly. Prior to the certification of the AMSAFE, the practicalities of requiring ticketed underweight children to be in a CRS would have required the airlines to provide a CRS to passengers who showed up without them, and as a group, US air carriers did not want to go to the expense of creating, maintaining, and stocking airworthy carseat-sized CRS devices. (BA and Virgin have done so, but only because they don't want hardshell toddler carseats on board at all, and UK law allows them to refuse passengers' using them. They only provide about 6 CRS' per aircraft, and only on long-haul flights.) The airlines' collective opinion on taking on this expense and responsibility may change now that the AMSAFE CAREs has been certified, but I'm not willing to bet the farm on it yet.

(To be fair to BA & Virgin, their position has some validity, as carseats sold in the UK are not designed for or tested with lap-belt only installation.)

 

[Nancyg56]

Wow! Touchy subject! We are flying in Jan with our 4 year old DGD. I had assumed that we could simply take her car seat with us. She is tiny for her age. I am going to ask DD to call airline we have chosen to make sure that the seat that is approved for the car will be accepted on the aircraft. I was not confused before reading this thread, but I sure am confused now.

 

[tlbwriter]

Wow! Touchy subject! We are flying in Jan with our 4 year old DGD. I had assumed that we could simply take her car seat with us. She is tiny for her age. I am going to ask DD to call airline we have chosen to make sure that the seat that is approved for the car will be accepted on the aircraft. I was not confused before reading this thread, but I sure am confused now.

Most carseats sold in the U.S. are approved for airplane use. The exceptions would be seats like booster seats without an internal harness, shield boosters (which no one should be using anyway, in a car *or* a plane), and specialty seats that are too large to fit between the armrests, such as the Britax Husky. So you're probably okay. But it's good to check.

 

[Nancyg56]

Most carseats sold in the U.S. are approved for airplane use. The exceptions would be seats like booster seats without an internal harness, shield boosters (which no one should be using anyway, in a car *or* a plane), and specialty seats that are too large to fit between the armrests, such as the Britax Husky. So you're probably okay. But it's good to check.

Thank you. Our seat is a 5 point harness, and I know that it can be secures with an ordinary seatbelt. I also know she purchesed an expensive on, but I am not the one who makes these purchases. My DGD and SIL take care of this. My children are all adults, and the seats that we used when they were little would never be acceptable today. It's a wonder that any kids raised in the 70's are still alive today. I would never use any of the seats, strollers, bouncers, etc. that I was happy with then.

 

[Captain Blue Sky]

Most carseats sold in the U.S. are approved for airplane use.

Not altogether true. There are many "carseats" that are not approved for FAA use and you can by them today. Cosco makes a model that isn't approved, so does GRACO. Agents are trained to locate the FAA certification sticker that MUST be present. Also, if you REMOVE the sticker, your seat is not longer certified and it can be denied a presence in the cabin. And this has happened on more than a couple of flights I have worked.

Separate and apart from that,

I find your reaction quite surprising because you say that you have been a commercial pilot for a very long time; surely you realize that the airlines are the principal lobby influencing the FAA's decision not to require child restraints?

Are you assuming that pilots support ALL airline management decisions??? If so, girl, YOU ARE WRONG! How simple and uninformed you must be to think that ALPA members and management converge in their opinions regarding this! The elementary wing is to your left, deary...

Hmmm... no attention to detail *and* can't take a joke. And refuses to answer simple questions. I thought only doctors thought they were God.

This is really not necessary. Where do you get this anger??? I certainly do not find your writing "funny" in fact I find it more insulting and flaming than anything else. it is how your words are interpreted that is the important point. And I think your words are insulting, in bad taste, and constitute a personal attack.

Furthermore, I have read the posts and I have offered my opinion. If you can't tolerate anyone else's perspective than find a different forum.

Now I know why there are IGNORE buttons on these posts. Let me switch it on for tlbwriter...

 

[justhat]

Wow, what a crazy turn this thread took. Not to take sides or anything, but Captain Blue Sky, tlbwriter did say "most carseats sold in the US are approved for airplane use", not "every carseat is approved for airplane use". I think you agree with her that "most" are since you listed only 2 that are not approved, so one can infer from that short list that many other carseats are approved. No need to be nitpicky, she was just trying to help another poster out.

 

[tlbwriter]

Not altogether true. There are many "carseats" that are not approved for FAA use and you can by them today.

Once again, the captain has a problem with reading comprehension, as I said "most." And "most" is absolutely true.

Originally Posted by tlbwriter
I find your reaction quite surprising because you say that you have been a commercial pilot for a very long time; surely you realize that the airlines are the principal lobby influencing the FAA's decision not to require child restraints?

I didnt say this. You snipped this from someone else's post. Perhaps *you* are the one who needs the elementary wring, as you are still having problems with reading comprehension.

This is really not necessary. Where do you get this anger??? I certainly do not find your writing "funny" in fact I find it more insulting and flaming than anything else. it is how your words are interpreted that is the important point. And I think your words are insulting, in bad taste, and constitute a personal attack.

Yes, I've noticed you found certain words insulting. It saddens me that if you had bothered to read those words, you would find that they do not say what you assumed they said at all.

Oh well. Since the captain is ignoring me, perhaps someone else can tell him I told him to lighten up, read more carefully, get his panties out of their wad, and have a nice day.

 

[NotUrsula]

"Are you assuming that pilots support ALL airline management decisions??? If so, girl, YOU ARE WRONG! How simple and uninformed you must be to think that ALPA members and management converge in their opinions regarding this! The elementary wing is to your left, deary..."

Sigh. No, I'm not assuming that at all; I am fully aware that there is often a great deal of conflict between airline management and airline workers' unions, and/or conflicting opinions the part of individual employees. You are human, after all, just like the rest of us.

I wasn't surprised that you disagreed with the FAA position; I know that most pilots disagree with it, and even said so in the post you are referring to. I was surprised that you appeared to be reacting to the "drive vs. fly" argument as if it were the first time you had heard it. As the airlines are the principal proponents of the argument, and since you have worked in the airline industry for many years by your own account, I would have thought that the "drive-vs.-fly" argument would be very old news to you by now.

(Edited to correct the formatting of the original quote.)

 

[NotUrsula]

Just in case some folks reading this might be confused by all these mentions of the FAA sticker on carseats, I wanted to remind everyone that though the presence of the sticker (actually 2 labels) in question is mandated by the FAA, the FAA is not actually mentioned in the wording on it. The wording is set by US Federal law, and this is it:

(14 CFR 121.311)
(B) Seats manufactured to U.S. standards on or after February 26, 1985,
must bear two labels:
(1) ‘‘This child restraint system conforms to all applicable Federal motor
vehicle safety standards’’; and
(2) ‘‘THIS RESTRAINT IS CERTIFIED FOR USE IN MOTOR VEHICLES AND AIRCRAFT’’ in red lettering

The labels should be found on the outside of the seat's shell, but the placement may vary a bit by seat model and mfr. Of course, if your seat was not purchased in the US, it probably won't have these particular labels. There is provision for acceptance of carseats from outside the US, as long as they have the appropriate labels for their point of origin. If this applies in your case, I recommend that you read the full text of the regulation to find out how to determine if your seat qualifies.

 

[Captain Blue Sky]

You did say that, tlbwriter, as I snipped it from your posting. You went back and edited out your flipant remark.

It amazes me how far some people can go to perpetuate their "know-it-all" sense of self...

HA-HA!

 

[tlbwriter]

You did say that, tlbwriter, as I snipped it from your posting. You went back and edited out your flipant remark.

Nope, sorry, wasn't me. If you're subscribed to this thread, each post in its original form would have been e-mailed to you, and you could go back and see that the remark in question was not posted by me. It probably came from NotUrsula, since she is the one who was talking about FAA regs, and I see she has edited one of her posts. [/quote]

It amazes me how far some people can go to perpetuate their "know-it-all" sense of self...

Yeah, me too. And I noticed you haven't figured out how to ignore me. Having problems?

 

[Captain Blue Sky]

Ignore works great!

 

[NotUrsula]

Blue Sky, I said it, and if you look, it's still there. (I did edit that post, but I didn't remove that sentence.) I even replied to your comment on it.

 

[D L and K's Mom]

TBLWriter Thank you so much for the info. I am glad you told me you cant use booster seats....I thought I was so smart... The attendant was very nice but she could not get the buckle undone either....thank you again for the help. I hope we do fly your airlines(I didnt see where you wrote which it was).....we mainly use DELTA but due to some HUGE problems with them (Well really there COMAIR connection) transporting DS (special needs) I think we will be looking elsewhere......Thanks again.