Canon mirrorless

I would be very hesitant to buy a camera withou an EVF. It drives me nuts to use a point and shoot out in the sun. I feel like I just can't see what's in my shot like I do with my DSLR. I certainly can't make out details. But maybe that's my rapidly aging eyes. I love my EVF!

yeah great point. I guess I'd need my reading glasses on all the time when shooting instead of flipping them down every once in a while to check/adjust settings.

I guess they decided to go for the smartphone/p&s market a little more by not including it and adding a touch screen.

Other than that...it seems like it does everything the Rebel line does and it said it that review IQ is to be identical to the T4i.
 
The EVF is the part you put your eye to when taking a photo right?

Why is that so important to so many?

Before I got my T2i I only owned p&s cameras and I don't think I used the viewfinder once.....

For me it's about stabilization and fatigue. I can get away with a much slower shutter speed using a viewfinder than I can holding the camera out to shoot with an LCD screen. And my arms get tired when I'm holding them out all day. This is a smaller, lighter camera so that counteracts that some, but if you start attaching EF or EF-S lenses to it that sucker is gonna get heavy real quick.
 
For me it's about stabilization and fatigue. I can get away with a much slower shutter speed using a viewfinder than I can holding the camera out to shoot with an LCD screen. And my arms get tired when I'm holding them out all day. This is a smaller, lighter camera so that counteracts that some, but if you start attaching EF or EF-S lenses to it that sucker is gonna get heavy real quick.

I definitely also concur on the stabilization issue. My hands are unsteady enough. I can't even imagine holding my camera steady out away from me.
 

A little confused with this talk of OVF/EVF and whether this camera has an EVF.

I always thought EVF = Electronic Viewfinder wheras OVF = Optical Viewfinder.

Anyway, I think all of the mirrorless cameras have EVFs, some additionally have optional OVFs, and some now have built in OVFs in addition to the EVFs.

But for the Canon mirrorless, it does have an EVF.

Not to prolong the confusion :scratchin but here's what dpreview has to say about what they call the "rear screen" (which to me is the EVF - someone correct me if I'm wrong, lol):

The EOS M features a compact, magnesium-alloy body, and will be available in four colours - black, white, silver and red. It has no built-in flash, but instead a hot shoe on the top plate, and in many markets (although not the US) it will come bundled with the new AAA-powered Speedlite 90EX unit. There's neither a built-in viewfinder, nor connector for an external unit - composition is solely using the camera's rear screen (which is fixed, rather than articulated).

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-m
 
A little confused with this talk of OVF/EVF and whether this camera has an EVF.

I always thought EVF = Electronic Viewfinder wheras OVF = Optical Viewfinder.

Anyway, I think all of the mirrorless cameras have EVFs, some additionally have optional OVFs, and some now have built in OVFs in addition to the EVFs.

But for the Canon mirrorless, it does have an EVF.

Not to prolong the confusion :scratchin but here's what dpreview has to say about what they call the "rear screen" (which to me is the EVF - someone correct me if I'm wrong, lol):



http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-m

my understanding is LCD is the rear screen and EVF is basically a copy of that projected somehow into that small viewfinder you can put your eye to (as opposed to OVF which is reflected by mirror...i.e. not electrically projected).

now someone correct me if I'M wrong! :lmao:
 
Wait! Wait! This clears it up!

Mirrorless interchangeable-lens camera

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Mirrorless interchangeable-lens camera (MILC) is a popular class of digital system cameras. Unlike a compact digital camera, a MILC is equipped with an interchangeable lens mount and unlike a digital single-lens reflex camera, a MILC does not have a mirror-based optical viewfinder.

Various alternative names exist – see terminology – including: Compact System Camera (CSC), Mirrorless System Camera (MSC), Digital Single Lens Mirrorless (DSLM), Digital Interchangeable-Lens System camera, and - finally - Electronic Viewfinder with Interchangeable Lens (EVIL); this latter term not applying to cameras with an optical viewfinder.

As of 2012 there were at least six MILC camera systems available from seven manufacturers. In chronological order (by their introduction) and referring to the adopted lens-mount type, they are: Epson R-D1 using Leica M mount in 2004; Leica itself in 2006; Micro Four Thirds mount for Olympus and Panasonic MILCs; NX mount for Samsung MILCs; Sony E-mount for Sony MILCs; Nikon 1 mount, for Nikon MILCs; Pentax Q mount for Pentax small-sensor MILC (Pentax Q); K-mount for both Pentax DSLRs and Pentax large-sensor MILC, X-mount for Fujifilm MILCs.

Drawbacks

MILCs share many of the limitations of both compact cameras and DSLRs. These include:

No TTL optical viewfinder

The lack of through-the-lens optical viewfinder (TTL OVF) is a defining feature of MILCs, and also found on compact cameras – a TTL optical viewfinder requires an optical path from taking lens to viewfinder, hence an SLR design.

MILCs primarily use a rear LCD display for arm-level shooting, but some also feature an electronic viewfinder (EVF) for eye-level shooting, or an optical viewfinder that is not TTL (as in a rangefinder), which hence suffers from parallax, particularly at short distances.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirrorless_interchangeable-lens_camera
:rotfl2:

I have a PEN which has no built in optical viewfinder and I haven't bothered to get the optional one. It does take some getting used to as I'm accustomed to looking in the eye piece of my dSLR, but it's not a dealbreaker. You can't always see the screen too well so sometimes it's a cross-your-fingers-and-hope-for-the-best type thing. This would be more of an issue if it was my primary camera, but since it's not, it's fine.

The Canon looks like a nice camera.

What really matters is if you're comfortable using it and you like the pictures you take with it.
 
Or simply put:
OVF = Optical eye viewer (you're looking through glass at the real scene)
EVF = Electrical eyel viewer (same as the OVF, but it's a little LCD you put your eye up to.)
LCD = usually refers to the big monitor on the back of your camera. :)
 
EVF is really needed when shooting in bright sunlight. The LCD just gets washed out. Another thing is no tilting LCD for waste level shooting. I find I use waste level shooting all the time on my Nex 7.

-2 for Canon
 
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-m/

At $799 I will pass for now. If it was around 600 maybe.

$799 for the camera with a 22mm prime lens. Another $299 for the 18-55 kit lens! And of course another new battery to boost sales of those profitable items. A Rebel is a *much* better deal and it already comes with a flash (which costs another $199 for the EOS-M).
This camera appears to be way overpriced for it's market, I expect to see lowered prices soon.
 
$799 for the camera with a 22mm prime lens. Another $299 for the 18-55 kit lens! And of course another new battery to boost sales of those profitable items. A Rebel is a *much* better deal and it already comes with a flash (which costs another $199 for the EOS-M).
This camera appears to be way overpriced for it's market, I expect to see lowered prices soon.

I love these debates on dpreview. :) there's gear that's "a good deal" and then there's the gear you actually want. :). people blasted us Sigma owners because there were better deals out there. But Sigma had the exact gear I wanted, and delivered the IQ I needed.

They're fine in the $699-$799 range for now. It won't kill them. but I do agree it seems a bit high given a good chunk of their buyers will be the same target group as the Rebel series.
 
$799 when you can get into a Panasonic mirrorless for less than $400 will stop a lot of new buyers.
 
$799 when you can get into a Panasonic mirrorless for less than $400 will stop a lot of new buyers.

But if I'm going for the "gear I want" I'll get the aps-c over m4/3. :)

But the $400 Panasonic isn't that tempting anyways, when I can pick up a Olympus E-PL1 with kit lens for $250 now. :)
 
But the $400 Panasonic isn't that tempting anyways, when I can pick up a Olympus E-PL1 with kit lens for $250 now.
Rumor is that a couple of new PENs are coming out soon, perhaps with the new (? Sony) sensor seen in the Oly OM-D E-M5.
 
But if I'm going for the "gear I want" I'll get the aps-c over m4/3. :)

But the $400 Panasonic isn't that tempting anyways, when I can pick up a Olympus E-PL1 with kit lens for $250 now. :)

I didn't realize the Oly's had dropped that low. Hmmm.... I have a refund coming from my grants. Wonder if I could pass one off as supplies for class...
 
$799 when you can get into a Panasonic mirrorless for less than $400 will stop a lot of new buyers.

There are a few caveats to that though. Remember, we're talking average consumers, not photo enthusiasts.

I've seen hundreds of threads here in this forum, and similar in many others, where someone says they want to buy a camera, and should they get a Canon or Nikon? Simply put, many folks don't even know what brands of camera exist - they only know they've seen or heard of the names Canon or Nikon. So all the others (Panny, Oly, Sony, Pentax, Ricoh, Samsung, etc) are at a disadvantage already, and Canon and Nikon have a big advantage naturally, even if their products are inferior.

Also, Canon has massive presence in big box stores, average consumer stores, etc...whereas you can go to a lot of big box stores and not even see an Olympus, Panasonic, or Sony model on the shelf. Again, advantage to Canon regardless of how good or bad the product is.

Then you've got the rare consumer who actually does know another brand of camera, and asks whether to buy the Panny/Oly/Sony/Pentax/etc or the Canon, and the usual comment that inevitably is offered up by someone, "All the pros use Canon, just look at all the white lenses at the sports game". Again, the product doesn't matter - the name has built in cache, and honestly they could stick the name Canon on the front of a Barbie kids cam and outsell most other brands.

You can't underestimate Canon's success with this camera, regardless of how inferior it may be to much of the mirrorless competition. They are a big name, with instant recognition, and assumed respect. They've sold plenty of very average entry-level DSLRs that often are outspecced and undercut price-wise by competing DSLRs, but the Canon name on the front sold the product. I expect the mirrorless market may be the same, and having it look (and even function to a degree) much like an Ixus may end up paying dividends in bringing over lots of P&S consumers looking for better performance and not knowing such alternatives have existed already for 4-5 years from other brands. Sure, they're not winning over many of their DSLR loyalists, but very likely they don't really want to...DSLRs remain profitable for them, and if the first salvo of this EOS-M is successful with the P&S converters, they can release a second more advanced mirrorless body that has better functionality and features to play to their DSLR crowd as a second body option - those totally devoted to the Canon brand who never considered any other mirrorless camera as an option.
 
Again, the product doesn't matter - the name has built in cache, and honestly they could stick the name Canon on the front of a Barbie kids cam and outsell most other brands.

;) I think you may be correct there!
 
Something about Canon's mirrorless screams niche (photo enthusiast). You don't see too many consumer cameras without a built in flash. Are they counting on accessory sales or taking a chance?
 
I didn't realize the Oly's had dropped that low. Hmmm.... I have a refund coming from my grants. Wonder if I could pass one off as supplies for class...

I've always made the argument that just because a newer camera comes out, it doesn't mean the older model "stops" taking great pictures. :)

So if the features I need are there, I'll go for an older model. Heck, I'd still have my Canon 300D (original Rebel) today if it wasn't for shutter failure.

Bu the Olympus PEN E-PL1 has been popping up a lot in my "discount electronics" emails for $250 with the kit. Very tempting...
 


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