Candlelight Processional, for non-Christians?

[justKim]

I was pleasantly surprised by the rational discourse on this thread, right up until about post #22.
Christmas is a season I really enjoy for the decorations, music, and shining eyes of my children.
For the person(s) who instructed athiests to "think about it" ...we have!

free-think-er n. A person who forms opinions on the basis of reason; independently of tradition, authority, or established belief.

Is there a support group for atheists who really like Christmas? 'Cause I need to know.


And, in regards to post #22 ...nothing to see here, keep with the nice and friendly, just move along....

 

[erikthewise]

If you see a post that you find objectionable or offensive, what should you do?

I suggest there are only two good options.
(1) Ignore it.
(2) Report the post to a moderator.

Other options just don't work very well. The question raised by the OP is perfectly legitimate, but debate on religion or personal attacks are likely to get the thread locked and perhaps other sanctions as well.

 

[amandadaddy]

Robin - The whole point is that there are way too many people in this country who spend everyday just looking for something to be offended by. I didn't say that non-Christians should avoid WDW or live somewhere other than the U.S., I said that non-Christians who are easily offended by anything Christian would be more comfortable if they avoided WDW during Christmas and lived somewhere other than the U.S.

I completely support your right to believe or not believe anything that you choose so long as you respect my right to do the same. As for the comparison between the CP and the Christmas music and decor throughout WDW during that time of year, neither is any more or less overtly Christian than the other because they all celebrate the birth of Jesus, and any difference that you see is simply a reflection of your own biasis.

As for my test, I think it works! Based on the results, I wouldn't take you to the CP, you might have a reaction and lessen my enjoyment of the show. Why do you feel the need to be offended by someone wishing you well in the most sincere and solemn way they possibly could? I think that says more about you than it does anything else.

In the future you would do well not to assign your fears or predjudices to other people by putting words in their mouths or assigning beliefs to them that they have not expressed. Perhaps when someone prays for you you could appreciate the fact that they cared that much for you instead of belittleing the thought.

b.t.w. - my prayers are with you - sincerely.

What did Snowbunny think about? ....being tolerant?..... must have decided against it.

DW has suggested that anyone who thinks they might be offended by the CP avoid it at all costs!......which will leave more available seating for the rest of us!

Once again, stick with the test.....it looks like it works pretty good!

 

[GEM]

As for the comparison between the CP and the Christmas music and decor throughout WDW during that time of year, neither is any more or less overtly Christian than the other because they all celebrate the birth of Jesus, and any difference that you see is simply a reflection of your own biasis.

Come over and visit in December. My house will be filled to the rafters with Christmas trees, wrapped gifts, Christmas cookies, hot chocolate, jingle bells, stockings,tradtions, fond memories, and general holiday merriment - but I can tell you for a fact that none of it will be there because it celebrates the birth of Jesus. You might want to do a little research into the origins of many of our most cherished Christmas traditions and decorations.

By the way, we've booked the Candlelight Processional dinner package for December 23rd - and we can't wait! Any other non-believers attending are welcome to sit with us!

And, for what it's worth, I never get offended when somebody says they're praying for me. I don't think it does any good, but it certainly doesn't hurt - unless they're the kind who are all "lets pray about this now together" or something. Um, no thanks.

 

[amandadaddy]

Thanks for the invite GEM. Unfortunately we won't be at WDW during December so we'll have to pass.

I've actually done quite a bit of research into the origins of many of our Christmas traditions (including the ones that pre-date the traditional celebration of Christmas and have pagan origins ) and like I said, what they mean to each of us is based largely on our own belief systems. I don't see why that has to offend anyone.

Congratulations on the reservation for CP, if I were there at that time I'd be glad to sit next to you for it.

As for the prayer thing, I know what you mean. I'm not fond of people trying to dictate prayer or religious activity on their terms or as a way of governing others.

 

[GEM]

I've actually done quite a bit of research into the origins of many of our Christmas traditions (including the ones that pre-date the traditional celebration of Christmas and have pagan origins ) and like I said, what they mean to each of us is based largely on our own belief systems.

Ahh, but that's not what you said. You said

As for the comparison between the CP and the Christmas music and decor throughout WDW during that time of year, neither is any more or less overtly Christian than the other because they all celebrate the birth of Jesus, and any difference that you see is simply a reflection of your own biasis.

You do see the difference, don't you?

 

[Mariposa]

Um, yeah.. this had been going well.

And I'd like to throw my lot in with the couple of posters above who noted that there's a significant difference between being surrounded by general Christmas decorations (which, in fact, were often adopted from other cultural/religious beliefs due to a sense of tradition or just because the Christians felt like it) and being read the story of the birth of Christ. The decorations usually have little to no religious significance themselves except for their association with Christmas.. (Here I am thinking Christmas trees, Santa Clause, wreaths, mistletoe, etc.) Yes, there are angels thrown in some spots, I'm sure, but still... The bulk is not religious. However, there is no way to get around the fact that the reading of the account of Christ's birth from the Bible is religious. I mean, I'm not offended by it, but clearly it's meant to convey a sense of religious joy and weight.. However, if you can just enjoy the narrative and music, that's great. I'm just saying, there's a big difference between the two.

While I understand people getting upset about someone saying that as Christians they don't understand what it's like to be non-Christian in this country, this?

However, if any expression of Christianity is a problem for you, you should probably avoid WDW entirely during the Christmas season. Oh yeah,and stay away from the Christmas shop in Liberty Square at MK, they have Christian stuff there year-round.....and I'm not certain, but there might be some Christian stuff around the HM (crosses, angels and such) .........come to think of it, there's alot of Christian stuff at WDW year round. It might not be the Ideal vacation spot for non-Christians who are easily offended by anything Christian in nature. Actually,.....there's alot of that sort of stuff throughout our nation......Churches all over the place (did you know that they get tax breaks from federal, state and local governments!), cities named after Saints and Angels and Biblical figures, a legal system based on the Ten Commandments, Bibles in court rooms, oaths sworn to God for all sorts of reasons all over the place, day care centers, elementary and secondary schools, even major universitys that are Christian in nature. You know, on second thought, maybe the United States isn't a good place for Non-Christians who are easily offended by anything Christain to live.

... was uncalled for, IMHO.

This country was at least in part founded by people who left their homeland because they wanted freedom in their religious faith. Some were remarkably tolerant and accepting. Some had to leave their homeland because they were so closed minded and intolerant that they couldn't get along with anyone else and needed more space to be anti-social and judgmental. I like to believe I'm descended from the first group, ya know?

 

[antkim]

"I'm not looking for a morals debates, just an idea of how comfortable non-Christians are with watching this show. (Please be respectful and don't flame anyone!) "





Looks like whether Christian or Atheist there is ALWAYS room for debate.

Out of respect for the OP would it have been too much to honor her wish for no debates???

I have been to the CP...it is beautiful. Not sure it meant as much to me as it does to those that live their lives "worshipping" the scripture.(that was not meant to be offensive!) I think that if I were a deeply religious person it would have a whole different meaning. I guess the only way I can really explain it is.....compare it to the old "you either believe in the magic or you don't" People that don't "get" Disney still visit and enjoy themselves....they just don't sob at the sight of the castle like I do! People that are not of the Christian faith can most certainly enjoy WDW and the CP..they just don't have the same "spiritual experience".

It's worth trying.

Kim

 

[AMANDASMOM]

GEM - The point is that the decorations, the music and all of that are there at WDW because it's Christmas, not because of the winter harvest or anyother non-christian origin that they may have. The undenieable purpose of displaying them at that time is the celebration of Christmas and it's traditions.

I admit my first post was a bit of a flame job, but I was just trying to point out that anyone who would find the CP offensive could probably find something to offend them in anything. And implying that members of a particular group are somehow inferior to you because they hold a different belief system than you is biggotry and predjudice in the purest since.

Like I said in response to the OP - Christians and non-Christians alike will have varrying opinions on the offensiveness or lack thereof of the CP. I still think it's a good guide; if someone would be offended by another person praying for them, there's a good chance that they would be offended by the CP. .....and that would be too bad, 'cause it's a wonderful show.




Amandadaddy

 

[Synonymous]

GEM - The point is that the decorations, the music and all of that are there at WDW because it's Christmas, not because of the winter harvest or anyother non-christian origin that they may have. The undenieable purpose of displaying them at that time is the celebration of Christmas and it's traditions.

Guess that depends on your point of view. Since the winter solstice has ALWAYS been a time of holiday celebrations, since before anyone ever thought of Jesus Christ, and since the vast majority of the symbols displayed at this time, including at WDW, are undeniably NON-christian, can we really say that this celebration is "not because of the winter harvest or any other non-christian origin?" It was the christians who moved their holiday to match the pagans' celebrations, not the other way around.

I admit my first post was a bit of a flame job, but I was just trying to point out that anyone who would find the CP offensive could probably find something to offend them in anything. And implying that members of a particular group are somehow inferior to you because they hold a different belief system than you is biggotry and predjudice in the purest since.

And you weren't saying that people whose religious beliefs would be offended by your religious celebration are somehow inferior to you? What was that I remember reading about "maybe they shouldn't be in this country?"

 

[Sorcerer Figment]

I've never seen this event, so I need your opinions. Would this show be too 'in your face' or pushy for non-Christians (i.e. Jews, Athiests, whatever)? I'm not looking for a morals debates, just an idea of how comfortable non-Christians are with watching this show. (Please be respectful and don't flame anyone!) Thanks!

As the OP, allow me to reclaim this thread. I can understand not reading every response, but doesn't one usually read the original post? All I asked for was opinions on the comfort level for those not in the majority at a specific event.

And guess what, you guys came through for me. But then things went a little astray. I don't agree with everyone's opinion, or their use of logic (or lack thereof.) But it is not my, nor anyone else's, job to attack another's position. (Thanks to most of you for keeping the cross-talk civil.)

So now that the original question has been answered, I think this has really stopped being a useful travel planning thread. So moderators, could we please get this thread locked?

Thanks again, everyone! Love you all!

 

[DVCconvert]

Would this show be too 'in your face' or pushy for non-Christians (i.e. Jews, Athiests, whatever)? I'm not looking for a morals debates

When in doubt--skip it!

 

[DVCconvert]

So moderators, could we please get this thread locked?

If this happened--at least on 25% of the threads posted--the 'DIS" would be a much happier place.......Unless of course there was some screening process to threads being proposed to BE posted.

 

[robinb]

I admit my first post was a bit of a flame job, but I was just trying to point out that anyone who would find the CP offensive could probably find something to offend them in anything. And implying that members of a particular group are somehow inferior to you because they hold a different belief system than you is biggotry and predjudice in the purest since.

I just want to point out something about the post that you felt you needed to flame. I never implied that Christians were inferior. I said what I mean and mean what I say. I said that many Christians don't understand. You "processed" that as something that I never said or meant: that Christians are inferior or stupid. That is not the case. You posts have been caustic and sarcastic in general and full of personal insults towards me.

 

[SnackyStacky]

Closed at the request of the OP.