Can what you say online have real world consequences?

[sam_gordon]

a responsible adult HAS to think about who is going to be looking at those pictures and what they'll think/do about them. You can say it's criminalizing the victim, I can say it's protecting your child. It's just the way the world is. I have a relative who was abused as a child, having pornographic pictures taken and widely distributed. This person has spent many years in counseling, trying to deal with knowing the pics are out there and how they are being used, and panics every time a child porn circle is uncovered, worrying that the pictures will trace back to their current life. It's very awful to know what this person is going through, and every time I see people posting pics of their kids, innocently enough, I can't help but wonder who out there is using these pictures for not so innocent purposes.

So should a woman not wear a miniskirt because someone might look at her sexually? I'm assuming you feel no one should post any photos online. After all, you have no idea who is going to be looking at those pictures and what they'll think/do about them.

I'm sorry about your relative. But comparing what happened to her to a topless baby photo isn't even apples to oranges. It's apples to to elephants.

 

[leebee]

So should a woman not wear a miniskirt because someone might look at her sexually? I'm assuming you feel no one should post any photos online. After all, you have no idea who is going to be looking at those pictures and what they'll think/do about them.
I'm sorry about your relative. But comparing what happened to her to a topless baby photo isn't even apples to oranges. It's apples to to elephants.

Bad assumption; the whole reason I started my FB page was so I could share my pictures of my child with my friends, and I could see the pictures they wanted to share with me. However, the pictures are NOT public, and I only share them with people I trust- and I'd also ask DD if it was OK for me to share recital pictures, grad pictures, etc., with relatives and close friends before I'd send them. Now, we can get into the discussion of how do I know who I can trust, and in all honesty, I can't know for sure that the people I trust are actually trustworthy. That's a judgement I make, and a risk I take... but I also didn't just post DD's pictures randomly, publicly, on social media.

I think that adults can dress however they want, but we all know that people are going to make judgements on how you are dressed. If you don't care, it's no skin off my nose. You are an adult, it's your decision how you want to dress. I think that it's pathetic that some men view women strictly sexually, and do NOT believe in blaming the victim. It's unfortunately an ugly world out there, and I just hope that women- especially young women- keep that in mind. Regardless of YOUR intent, someone, somewhere, is going to twist what you like to wear into thinking "she's just asking for it." It's wrong, it's revolting, but it's reality.

I think it's different when there are kids involved. We never took naked baby pictures, baby bath pictures, etc., of DD. It's HER body, and she was too young to decide how she wanted to expose it. I find it incredibly disrespectful when parents post naked baby pictures- not your body, shouldn't be your decision to share pictures of it. But that's just me... go ahead and do the naked baby picture thing, if you think it's cute and OK. I just don't happen to agree.

 

[CarolAnn856]

No, sort of glad I brought the subject to th DIS and listened to objectively to what I felt what is wrong is in fact hurting a business. But I do still feel it should not be shared.

Thank you for coming back to answer. When participating in online discussions, I have often found myself changing my opinion or, at the very least, seeing a viewpoint I hadn't seen before. I respect that you disagree with the practice, and I really respect that you were willing to look at it from a different perspective.

 

[OhMari]

Thank you for coming back to answer. When participating in online discussions, I have often found myself changing my opinion or, at the very least, seeing a viewpoint I hadn't seen before. I respect that you disagree with the practice, and I really respect that you were willing to look at it from a different perspective.

Thanks.

 

[Westcoastwild]

I'm not saying she isn't allowed to have that opinion but that it's not one I personally would vocalize if I were in her shoes given her occupation.

I personally don't think it has anything to do with a person's level of sensitivity towards being offended or not. I wasn't offended but I was like "really!?" and to Pete's comment he said it wasn't that people were angry (I guess except 1 person lol) but that they were hurt and that was what really got to him. This is one where it just wasn't professional at all-regardless of being offended or hurt or neither.

Can't and don't want to are two different things but either way it's a judgement on someone that just doesn't sit well with me....and appearantly with enough people too. It's too much focus on what resort category you stay at=reflection of the persons disposable income.

Respectfully here, but I don't know how you can measure who would be the most offended much less if they were more likely or less likely to use a travel agency. I mean what are you implying by saying "the people who would be the most offended are the type of people who would use a travel agency"..what people are you referring to?

The people I know in RL who use travel agencies are not budget travelers. The people I know who would be extremely offended by that comment are the people who see themselves as have-nots. They would automatically see a travel agent as a rich person thing regardless of the actual cost. No intersection between the two groups.

Like I said- it would register but it wouldn't offend me because I don't associate hotel choice with income any more than I associate brand name clothing with income. My family stays at all different types of lodging- it depends on the trip and who is along more than budget.

I am kind of surprised she would say that, tbh, as I would have assumed she would have had clients from all different economic ranges who chose to stay at moderates or deluxes because it was a once in a lifetime trip. And I definitely agree it wasn't professional.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

The people I know in RL who use travel agencies are not budget travelers. The people I know who would be extremely offended by that comment are the people who see themselves as have-nots. They would automatically see a travel agent as a rich person thing regardless of the actual cost. No intersection between the two groups.

Uh...ok well then you hang out with some very interesting people. Methinks you sound very much like Teresa on that subject...

*No offense meant of course*

 

[Westcoastwild]

Uh...ok well then you hang out with some very interesting people. Methinks you sound very much like Teresa on that subject...

*No offense meant of course*

Not offended. Like I said, I don't think she's completely inaccurate. I don't think the people I know are atypical. Even on this forum, I bet it's more of stretch to stay on property at all for most people. The values aren't all that cheap!

Difference between her and me is that my livelihood isn't a dying breed. Not many people use travel agents at all anymore, so I don't think it was very smart to say anything that could be remotely construed as offensive in a podcast.

 

[Westcoastwild]

I am sorry but I am talking way into the future even if dh and I had all the money in the world we would still pick AOA over GF

So would I. I don't think GF is worth the money. I'm just saying that the people who feel like others are judging their finances based on their hotel choice probably can't. People put weird emphasis on hotel class. In theory, anyone can save and stay at a deluxe- it just means that money won't be going elsewhere.

Anyway- my point is that people put a weird emphasis on hotel class. The only people who are care about how the Jones family are travelling are the people who can't afford to keep up with the Joneses. Everyone else doesn't care about what people think of their hotel choice. The woman in question is a travel agent. She probably can't afford deluxe hotels at rack rate either!

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I don't think that the pictures should be reported, because the photographer or parents AREN'T posting them maliciously, and I don't think the OP is actually sexualizing infants, but a responsible adult HAS to think about who is going to be looking at those pictures and what they'll think/do about them. You can say it's criminalizing the victim, I can say it's protecting your child. It's just the way the world is. I have a relative who was abused as a child, having pornographic pictures taken and widely distributed. This person has spent many years in counseling, trying to deal with knowing the pics are out there and how they are being used, and panics every time a child porn circle is uncovered, worrying that the pictures will trace back to their current life. It's very awful to know what this person is going through, and every time I see people posting pics of their kids, innocently enough, I can't help but wonder who out there is using these pictures for not so innocent purposes.

Just to clarify, it wasn't the OP who brought that up.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Not offended. Like I said, I don't think she's completely inaccurate. I don't think the people I know are atypical. Even on this forum, I bet it's more of stretch to stay on property at all for most people. The values aren't all that cheap!

Difference between her and me is that my livelihood isn't a dying breed. Not many people use travel agents at all anymore, so I don't think it was very smart to say anything that could be remotely construed as offensive in a podcast.

What I'm getting at is you're just as focused as she is on people's finances and assumptions based on that. Regardless of your friends, surely you realize that people who use travel agents don't just think they are for the rich (I mean what is rich then?). How someone is coming up with ways to pay for their trip is their business.

If I told you that I buy some of my clothes at Walmart and have a more than a few summer shirts that I bought for $1-$3 when they were on clearance would you assume that I can't afford X,Y, Z or that my income is low? Or if I somehow shop at fancier boutiques do you somehow assume that I have all the $$ in the world?

True that travel agents aren't as popular as they used to be (they used to basically be required for many things) but that's largely due to the internet and loosened restrictions on how you travel not due to those lowly poor folk who just stopped using them because they got this perception that it's only for the rich.

We do agree though that it was just not the right call to say something such that she did and to further push that in an apology rather than just apologize. And don't get me wrong I really like the Podcasters (though I'm still warming up to Charles lol) but I don't always agree with what they say.

 

[Westcoastwild]

What I'm getting at is you're just as focused as she is on people's finances and assumptions based on that. Regardless of your friends, surely you realize that people who use travel agents don't just think they are for the rich (I mean what is rich then?). How someone is coming up with ways to pay for their trip is their business.

If I told you that I buy some of my clothes at Walmart and have a more than a few summer shirts that I bought for $1-$3 when they were on clearance would you assume that I can't afford X,Y, Z or that my income is low? Or if I somehow shop at fancier boutiques do you somehow assume that I have all the $$ in the world?

True that travel agents aren't as popular as they used to be (they used to basically be required for many things) but that's largely due to the internet and loosened restrictions on how you travel not due to those lowly poor folk who just stopped using them because they got this perception that it's only for the rich.

We do agree though that it was just not the right call to say something such that she did and to further push that in an apology rather than just apologize. And don't get me wrong I really like the Podcasters (though I'm still warming up to Charles lol) but I don't always agree with what they say.

Hm. I'm not sure where we're crossing our wires, but no, I would not assume that just because you shop at Walmart, you're poor. Neither would I assume the opposite if you shopped at boutiques. I do both.

But I think the people who get offended that someone assumes they can't afford to shop at...say...Prada probably can't afford to shop at Prada. Otherwise they'd buy whatever they wanted and not care about what the salesman or whoever thinks. Or they wouldn't buy Prada because even if they had the money, they wouldn't be interested. Teresa is essentially a salesman. A travel agent will sell you whatever you want- it doesn't matter what they think.

I agree that the travel agent market has died down due to the internet. But I think these days, in response to that, it's more niche, and there are far fewer budget travelers using their services. And I could be wrong, but I think the podcast and its crew tends to market towards the high end travelers more. Maybe because it means more income for the agency or maybe just because it's more interesting to talk about the deluxe resorts than the all stars.

 

[NHdisneylover]

OK, I don't listen to the podcasts so I am basing this soley off of what is said in this thread about it, but it seems to me that the original podcast comment and the follow up apology are both in bad taste and also really stupid from a bussiness perspective in that it will probably run off any potential clinets who were looking at booking less than delux--who wants to deal with a condescending travel agent?

Personally---we used a travel agent for a number of years. It was when we were younger and had less experience with travel so felt the safety of her experience was worthwhile and wanted if not needed. Being younger we also had less money to spend than we do now. We might have been able to swing one week every other year at a deluxe resort back then, but instead spent 2-3 at a value and a week at on the cruise ship in an inside room. No, she didn't make a fortune off any one booking, but she got to know us and we her so that pretty soon she had to put very little work into a booking for us and she had 3-4 bookings a year. Later on we spent more time on ships, often booking a seperate room for the kids and sometimes a balcony for us and still booked through her, mostly beucase we had already built that relationship. When she retired we were comfortable enough with trvel and the ins and outs to feel like a new TA would be more trouble than it was worth (btu we would have kept our relationship with the one we were established with for many more years had she kept working).

And, yes, I do think it is negatively judgemental and condescending to state that people staying at a budget resort cannot afford otherwise. I hoenstly haven't even seen that in my experience---often they are simply people who budget for thigns other than travel, or for LOTS of travel. Just as often, someone at a high end resort is on a "once in a lifetime" trip or travels more rarely or is putting the trip on a credit card, etc. For someone whose JOB it is to book trips for people to be making asumptions about their income and broadcasting those out, based soley on where the people choose to spend money to sleep on vacation is rude.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Ok so this seems very relevant to the discussion.

I am in the midst of watching the DIS Unplugged WDW edition vlog that was posted yesterday. In the episode Teresa apologizes for a comment she made last week on the episode.

I'm fairly certain the comment she was referring to was related to a discussion on discounts and whatnot in regards to what is going on with WDW and attendance, etc and she had said in an offhand way about the Value resorts (and I want to say she more was referring to the All-Stars) "those people don't have money..they're saving their money for something else"..I'm not positive, even after rewatching that part of last week's episode, but it sounded like she was comparing to the Bay Lake Tower.

I don't see this opinion much anymore, but maybe about 10 years ago on the DIS there was a group of people who looked down on the "unwashed masses" who booked value.

I don't know any of the details of this comment, though because I haven't listened to the DIS Unplugged podcast since Pete complained about a gift of sugar free candy a listener sent. That goes back 4 or 5 years, I think. I am also not a fan of video podcasts.

 

[Westcoastwild]

OK, I don't listen to the podcasts so I am basing this soley off of what is said in this thread about it, but it seems to me that the original podcast comment and the follow up apology are both in bad taste and also really stupid from a bussiness perspective in that it will probably run off any potential clinets who were looking at booking less than delux--who wants to deal with a condescending travel agent?

Personally---we used a travel agent for a number of years. It was when we were younger and had less experience with travel so felt the safety of her experience was worthwhile and wanted if not needed. Being younger we also had less money to spend than we do now. We might have been able to swing one week every other year at a deluxe resort back then, but instead spent 2-3 at a value and a week at on the cruise ship in an inside room. No, she didn't make a fortune off any one booking, but she got to know us and we her so that pretty soon she had to put very little work into a booking for us and she had 3-4 bookings a year. Later on we spent more time on ships, often booking a seperate room for the kids and sometimes a balcony for us and still booked through her, mostly beucase we had already built that relationship. When she retired we were comfortable enough with trvel and the ins and outs to feel like a new TA would be more trouble than it was worth (btu we would have kept our relationship with the one we were established with for many more years had she kept working).

And, yes, I do think it is negatively judgemental and condescending to state that people staying at a budget resort cannot afford otherwise. I hoenstly haven't even seen that in my experience---often they are simply people who budget for thigns other than travel, or for LOTS of travel. Just as often, someone at a high end resort is on a "once in a lifetime" trip or travels more rarely or is putting the trip on a credit card, etc. For someone whose JOB it is to book trips for people to be making asumptions about their income and broadcasting those out, based soley on where the people choose to spend money to sleep on vacation is rude.

Thanks for your perspective. You didn't read guidebooks, though? I've generally found them to be more useful than travel agents. Except for food, but I rely on forums for that.

I haven't watched the podcast either. Doesn't sound like the apology made it any better.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I don't see this opinion much anymore, but maybe about 10 years ago on the DIS there was a group of people who looked down on the "unwashed masses" who booked value.

I don't know any of the details of this comment, though because I haven't listened to the DIS Unplugged podcast since Pete complained about a gift of sugar free candy a listener sent. That goes back 4 or 5 years, I think. I am also not a fan of video podcasts.

I think it ebbs and flows as far as the opinions. I think most people have the sorta "hey whatever works best for your traveling party" and whatnot but I do still see it every now and then on threads.

That's an interesting tidbit about Pete thought

 

[FlightlessDuck]

That's an interesting tidbit about Pete thought

I actually complained about it on the DisUnplugged forum and was told it was a joke. I didn't find it funny. Whatever.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Thanks for your perspective. You didn't read guidebooks, though? I've generally found them to be more useful than travel agents. Except for food, but I rely on forums for that.

I haven't watched the podcast either. Doesn't sound like the apology made it any better.

I read guide books. I am not sure why you would think I didn't?

Yes, now that we travel and I know what to expect I find that travel agents aren't really particularly useful (excepting that if we were on, say, a cruise ending early or at the wrong port, etc we could call that person and put them on handling sorting out getitng us home early, etc instead of having to do that ourselves--though even then i think we'd be happier booking our own arrangements). In fact, I find them more trouble than they are worth.
but when we were new to traveling, and a week at WDW represented what felt like a lot of money ot us, then I worried there was more i was missing and a professional could be best trusted to not mess things up.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

OK, I don't listen to the podcasts so I am basing this soley off of what is said in this thread about it, but it seems to me that the original podcast comment and the follow up apology are both in bad taste and also really stupid from a bussiness perspective in that it will probably run off any potential clinets who were looking at booking less than delux--who wants to deal with a condescending travel agent?

Personally---we used a travel agent for a number of years. It was when we were younger and had less experience with travel so felt the safety of her experience was worthwhile and wanted if not needed. Being younger we also had less money to spend than we do now. We might have been able to swing one week every other year at a deluxe resort back then, but instead spent 2-3 at a value and a week at on the cruise ship in an inside room. No, she didn't make a fortune off any one booking, but she got to know us and we her so that pretty soon she had to put very little work into a booking for us and she had 3-4 bookings a year. Later on we spent more time on ships, often booking a seperate room for the kids and sometimes a balcony for us and still booked through her, mostly beucase we had already built that relationship. When she retired we were comfortable enough with trvel and the ins and outs to feel like a new TA would be more trouble than it was worth (btu we would have kept our relationship with the one we were established with for many more years had she kept working).

And, yes, I do think it is negatively judgemental and condescending to state that people staying at a budget resort cannot afford otherwise. I hoenstly haven't even seen that in my experience---often they are simply people who budget for thigns other than travel, or for LOTS of travel. Just as often, someone at a high end resort is on a "once in a lifetime" trip or travels more rarely or is putting the trip on a credit card, etc. For someone whose JOB it is to book trips for people to be making asumptions about their income and broadcasting those out, based soley on where the people choose to spend money to sleep on vacation is rude.

Don't get me wrong here I don't want to vilify Teresa. I generally like her and she is known to be a more blunt but it still doesn't mean that I didn't think it was appropriate for her to say what she said. I would have easily forgotten if it she had just apologized and yada yada yada...it was the second comment that almost seemed worst to me than her original comment. And then as I was watching her and Pete talk I was immediately thinking of this thread.

*So in a nutshell don't get a bad impression of them just based on my comment because really they are great people..it's just you know in this case what you say on a Vlog watched by thousands of people and audio feed listened to by thousands of people can have real world consequences (though I really don't know if it actually did on the travel agency side-it's entirely possible it wasn't even a blip on the radar but still).

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I actually complained about it on the DisUnplugged forum and was told it was a joke. I didn't find it funny. Whatever.

Yeahh sometimes it's like you know what you and your buddies say to each other when it's just you and them is different than what you say when you're in front of other people.

 

[tinkerbellandeeyor]

I don't see this opinion much anymore, but maybe about 10 years ago on the DIS there was a group of people who looked down on the "unwashed masses" who booked value.

I don't know any of the details of this comment, though because I haven't listened to the DIS Unplugged podcast since Pete complained about a gift of sugar free candy a listener sent. That goes back 4 or 5 years, I think. I am also not a fan of video podcasts.

You know I find that comet laughable if mods and deluxes offwred counter service the way values do I would reconsider

Oh wait back in the day comtemery (sp) offered counter service right?