Can Walmart make my son work Christmas Eve?

[NHdisneylover]

I think as soon as my son took a job at Walmart, I would have written him off as a Christmas attendee. Mine just got hired as a ski lift operator and I just told him, "well we're going to miss you this Christmas, stop by if you get a chance." I figure it will prompt him to think a little about future career decisions. Nothing wrong with working these types of jobs, but missing holidays (and weekends, etc.) is a part of it. If they don't like it, they can get cracking on that education so they have more freedom in future job choices. Crappy jobs are good for kids!

Many posters have asked, "Why can't DS try to switch shifts with someone else?" People are forgetting that probably DS has to work the Christmas eve evening shift is because they purposely give the lowest people on the totem pole and the seasonal employees the worst shifts.

Many other people want that nite off too. Christmas eve is special to many people. If Walmart gives seniority to workers, and many people requested Christmas eve off, those people would have been given priority. Even if DS had earlier tried to request that nite off, he probably wouldn't have gotten it.

Yep. It is remotely possible that asking before the schedule came out may have helped, but I find that doubtful. It is called paying your dues and most people work (literally) through it.

 

[eliza61]

I worked retail when I was a teen. EVERYONE worked Christmas Eve. But, we closed at 5 pm back then ("back in the day" ).

In my opinion, he should have anticipated that he would have to work, and should have talked to his supervisor weeks ago, before the schedule was made, about working earlier in the day so he could go to church with his family. I am sure, had he requested it, that they would have tried to make it work for him.

At this point, I'd say that it is too late, unless he can find someone to switch with him.

I worked retail (sears, macys and walmart) and when I worked the first thing they told us to not even think about asking for the last 5 days before Christmas off. It would have taken an act of god to get a day off.

 

[marcyinPA]

I worked retail (sears, macys and walmart) and when I worked the first thing they told us to not even think about asking for the last 5 days before Christmas off. It would have taken an act of god to get a day off.

Same here, but there were still shifts. We didn't work from open to close. The OP's son should have requested to work an earlier shift weeks (months) ago so he could attend his church service at "whatever time"....Employers don't like messing with people's religious obligations, so I would hope that they would have tried to make it work.

 

[bicker]

I don't think businesses really like messing with employees religious obligations, mostly for legal purposes.

As far as I know, there are no such purposes applicable in this situation.

 

[marcyinPA]

As far as I know, there are no such purposes applicable in this situation.

"Title VII requires an employer to reasonably accommodate the religious practices of an employee or prospective employee, unless doing so would create an undue hardship for the employer. Some reasonable religious accommodations that employers may be required to provide workers include leave for religious observances, time and/or place to pray, and ability to wear religious garb."

Wouldn't going to Christmas Eve services fall under this?

 

[ckay87]

Honestly, I think many teens or young adults are somewhat happy to have the excuse to skip out on the family Christmas (or part of it) anyway. It is just part of being that age where sometimes you want to see yourself as separate from the family (but the nicer kids do not want to TELL mom and dad that so it is much easier to have to work and blame the boss)

THAT is an excellent point! I know mine will be thrilled to hang out with the buddies at the ski resort rather than in church, or at home with the seven noisy little girl cousins!

 

[DawnM]

Believe it or not, I have worked as a TEACHER two Christmas Eves. I worked in year round schools and our track needed to fill in another day to fulfill state requirements. It was a half day and about 10% of the student population actually showed up, but we had to be there!

If those are his assigned hours, he needs to be there.

Dawn

 

[deegack]

"Title VII requires an employer to reasonably accommodate the religious practices of an employee or prospective employee, unless doing so would create an undue hardship for the employer. Some reasonable religious accommodations that employers may be required to provide workers include leave for religious observances, time and/or place to pray, and ability to wear religious garb."

Wouldn't going to Christmas Eve services fall under this?

Not necessarly especially if there were several services Christmas eve or Christmas day. If they were schedules in a way that they couldn't attend any of the services then there may be an argument. The purpose is to allow you to attend religious services not the one that is most convenient for you.

 

[Jennasis]

They sure can.

 

[ICF]

"Title VII requires an employer to reasonably accommodate the religious practices of an employee or prospective employee, unless doing so would create an undue hardship for the employer. Some reasonable religious accommodations that employers may be required to provide workers include leave for religious observances, time and/or place to pray, and ability to wear religious garb."

Wouldn't going to Christmas Eve services fall under this?

At best, it would only apply if the church in question had only 1 Christmas service. Many (if not most) churches would have something Christmas Eve, a midnight service and at least one service on Christmas day. So, I dont think that making him work and missing one of potentially 3 to 5 options would cause an employer to give him the day off.

I'm shocked that a teen who's worked for 2 months at Walmart (and his parents) would REALLY expect that he would be able to get off on that day. It's a wal-mart on Christmas Eve and he's likely low man on the totem pole...of course he's going to have to work. It should have more of surprise if he actually got the day off.

 

[Hannathy]

I think as soon as my son took a job at Walmart, I would have written him off as a Christmas attendee. Mine just got hired as a ski lift operator and I just told him, "well we're going to miss you this Christmas, stop by if you get a chance." I figure it will prompt him to think a little about future career decisions. Nothing wrong with working these types of jobs, but missing holidays (and weekends, etc.) is a part of it. If they don't like it, they can get cracking on that education so they have more freedom in future job choices. Crappy jobs are good for kids!

uhhhh it isn't just the "crappy" jobs that work Christmas eve and Christmas. and I'm not even counting the expected human service jobs(police, fire, nursing, doctors, etc) My DH is a senior engineer and he will be working Christmas eve and Christmas. This is when a lot of industry does shut downs for big maintenance or installation jobs. So even with an education and a non"crappy" job you can still find yourself working holidays.

Oh and he also worked from 530 AM until 7:30 PM Thanksgiving day.

 

[MM27]

I worked in retail all through high school and college and I don't remember ever having off on Christmas Eve. Both places I worked, TJMaxx and Old Navy, closed by 5 or 6 though. Minors can't work over a certain number of hours and can't stay past a certain time, but there are no restrictions on working Christmas Eve.

If your child still wants a job after the holidays, I would suck it up and work. Places start laying off when the holiday rush is over and if I were a manager, I would start with those that left the company in a bind during the busy season.

 

[marcyinPA]

Not necessarly especially if there were several services Christmas eve or Christmas day. If they were schedules in a way that they couldn't attend any of the services then there may be an argument. The purpose is to allow you to attend religious services not the one that is most convenient for you.

Ok, right...I get that. But what I was trying to say was that the OP's son should have talked to his supervisor before the schedule was made, and asked to be scheduled so he could attend the "whatever" service at church. Maybe his church only has one service? IDK, but I'm sure if he had worked on it months ago, they would have tried to accommodate him. They don't want the family going around saying that they discriminated against his religion. They are smarter than that!

I believe he has to work it...EVERYONE works it. That's the industry...you work retail, you work holidays. But he should have anticipated it, and talked to his supervisor a long time ago. Too late when the schedule comes out!

 

[allison443]

"Title VII requires an employer to reasonably accommodate the religious practices of an employee or prospective employee, unless doing so would create an undue hardship for the employer. Some reasonable religious accommodations that employers may be required to provide workers include leave for religious observances, time and/or place to pray, and ability to wear religious garb."

Wouldn't going to Christmas Eve services fall under this?

I don't think that is the only service available...it's just the one the OP's family prefers to attend.

As kids get older things can't always stay the same, older kids have jobs, school, boyfriends/girlfriends, eventually in-laws...

OP does your son need the job? Unless he is prepared to lose the job I don't think he should call out that day. He might get fired (from what others have said) and that could affect his ability to get another job (not always easy for a high school student.)

What time is the Mass and is Walmart open late on Christmas Eve? I know my church has a 5 pm, 7 pm and midnight. If your kids are all older maybe you could start a new tradition of going to midnight mass together. (If you are referring to services other than mass, I apologize).

 

[descovy]

"Title VII requires an employer to reasonably accommodate the religious practices of an employee or prospective employee, unless doing so would create an undue hardship for the employer. Some reasonable religious accommodations that employers may be required to provide workers include leave for religious observances, time and/or place to pray, and ability to wear religious garb."

Wouldn't going to Christmas Eve services fall under this?

Probably not. For example, I work at Target, I cannot ask for Sundays off. Well, I can ask for "Sunday June 2" off, but I can't ask that I never work Sundays. I have to be "available" on Sundays.

I can go to church before work, after work. If you are comitted to church, you will find a way. For a low-on-the-totem-pole employee (non management) it is rare to have a shift over 8 hours (no one wants to pay overtime) So that leaves 16 hours to find a time to get to church.

My church has xmas eve services at 4pm, 7pm, 10pm. And Christmas Day at 9am. If for some reason I can't make any of those 4 options, I am free to visit another church.

And again, the employee can request (ahead of time) a specific shift. So no, you don't need a whole day off to attend one hour of church, but ask to work 6am-2pm or something like that (before the schedule is created)

Sorry, at Target it is an instant "No" to new hires who don't want to work Sundays. I myself have heard HR say "find a job at Hobby Lobby or Chik-fil-a."

 

[NMAmy]

You know, if NO ONE shopped, dined out, went to the movies on Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, Thanksgiving, this wouldn't be a problem. Stores and restaurants would close, or work with a thin skeleton crew, because no one would want to be there.

But as long as people want to take their family to eat at IHOP on the way to Grandma's, folks aren't done shopping on Christmas Eve (why does Dec 25 sneak up on us every year??) even shop and eat out on Christmas Day, there will be mothers, fathers, sons and daughters missing out on family traditions.

When I was young and poor and working retail to get through college, I LOVED working holidays and racking in that doubletime. My parents adjusted the holiday meals to fit with my schedule--since my mom was a dispatcher for a police department, it was nothing we hadn't worked around before.

PLENTY of other people besides those working retail have to work on holidays. My ex was a cop--we just had Christmas and Thanksgiving and NYE and Easter on a different day. And, often on those holidays, to keep my kid entertained, I'd take her out to a movie and out to dinner or breakfast. I don't feel guilty about that at all. If a person is that upset about working on a holiday, then they need to find a different type of job.

 

[cepmom]

uhhhh it isn't just the "crappy" jobs that work Christmas eve and Christmas. and I'm not even counting the expected human service jobs(police, fire, nursing, doctors, etc) My DH is a senior engineer and he will be working Christmas eve and Christmas. This is when a lot of industry does shut downs for big maintenance or installation jobs. So even with an education and a non"crappy" job you can still find yourself working holidays.

Oh and he also worked from 530 AM until 7:30 PM Thanksgiving day.

..DH is an engineer also, his job is subject to his customers' shutdown schedules. No days off for him...if someone calls with a problem or a shutdown scheduled for Thanksgiving, Christmas Eve, Christmas etc, he goes to work.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Not necessarly especially if there were several services Christmas eve or Christmas day. If they were schedules in a way that they couldn't attend any of the services then there may be an argument. The purpose is to allow you to attend religious services not the one that is most convenient for you.

This. Even then (if your church truly only had the one service that qualified) you would probably have to prove that you always attend services (like very single Sunday) to have any chance at all of winning a lawsuit.

 

[bicker]

"Title VII requires an employer to reasonably accommodate the religious practices of an employee or prospective employee, unless doing so would create an undue hardship for the employer. Some reasonable religious accommodations that employers may be required to provide workers include leave for religious observances, time and/or place to pray, and ability to wear religious garb."

Wouldn't going to Christmas Eve services fall under this?

No, because there is no Christian precept that requires attendance at that specific service, as opposed to perhaps the Midnight Mass, or services on Christmas day.

Contrast this with the Jewish observance of the Sabbath, where there is an explicit precept precluding working during that time period.

Remember, to invoke the law, you cannot inject your own personal preference into the situation (even to the extent of choosing one XXXeran church versus a different XXXeran church). It must be the principles of the religion itself that are contravened.

 

[RayaniFoxmur]

Nature of the beast unfortunately! Retail, food, and travel all pretty much work whenever they're told to during this season. In fact next week both my husband and myself work 6 days and we won't see each other at all on Christmas Day. It happens!

If there's anything I've learned it's that it's just another day. You can always celebrate a holiday on a day you have off and if you miss a church service or a family meal there's always going to be another one next year. Working is much more important right now.

There will be other holidays. Working one Christmas Eve isn't the end of the world.