Can someone explain this to me (divorce related)

[Carly_Roach]

The whole situation is nuts and confusing. Honestly though, the only one I feel sorry for is the child.

More background:

Friend doesn’t want custody right now for a bunch of reasons (a-whole-nother post and vent lol)

Friend and Ex do not want the other to have custody.

It is my prayer that the child is removed from everyone's custody and placed as soon as possible into an adoptive family far away it's relatives. It seems that no one really wants the child, doesn't it?

That is a very good point. One point where I really do not understand her reasoning. I think it’s basically she doesn’t think she can take care of him, she really doesn’t want her ex to take him and so all that’s left are her parents. Plus, I think she keeps wishing and hoping that they will show her they love and respect her.

Therein lies the problem. She keeps doing things to try to win their love and respect, yet none of the things she does works. If this were my friend (and she wouldn't be - not with all the drama she surrounds herself with), I'd be telling her to grow up, get a real job, and take care of her responsiblities. Stop basing her happiness on the behavior of these other people.

I feel very sorry for this little boy because it sounds all the adults in this situation are a bunch of selfish, irresponsible people who need to grow up.

Amen.

 

[abdmom]

Short & simple. The man is NOT a "flight risk" and legally the way things stand he can get on a plane tomorrow with his child & go wherever he wants...tell your friend to get her head together and for God's sake put her childs needs first and that is ultimately the only decision that she has to make on her own not by anyone else

Unless he has sole legal custody, he CANNOT get on a plane tomorrow with his child and go wherever he wants. That would be child abduction if he leaves the country without the mom's permission. Your friend needs a lawyer asap.

 

[Luvchefmic]

Unless he has sole legal custody, he CANNOT get on a plane tomorrow with his child and go wherever he wants. That would be child abduction if he leaves the country without the mom's permission. Your friend needs a lawyer asap.

I respectfully disagree with you as since no parent has sole custody at the moment LEGALLY any parent can take any child anywhere and no law enforcement agency would intervene. Its not legally fitting the criteria of child abduction. It would be if you took your child for a trip out of state for example and your DH didn't want you to. Well you could & he could contact law and the FIRST thing they will ask is does he have SOLE legal custody and an injunction that prevents you from doing so. I don't profess to know much but I do have experience having worked for law enforcement agencies. The only way they would alert airports etc (and it was my job to put that over the nationwide LE and FBI computer systems) is if the father was wanted for something else. It happens all the time.

 

[Katie's Butterflies]

I'm sorry but this is all just too confusing for words.
He's a flight risk? Is he a criminal legally required to remain in the country?

Because otherwise that is not a "flight risk." That's a citizen of another country moving back home. They are allowed to do that you know.

But Betty Mahmoody (the mother who wrote the book and on whom the movie was based) wanted her daughter. If the OP gives up custody of her son, then whoever has custody is allowed to move the child wherever they feel like.

I don't understand the "flight risk" comment - isn't that when people are on bail (or some such). Why shouldn't he go home (to visit or to live)?

Yes, I'm not seeing the problem here. The mother does not want custody. The father is actually a citizen of another country. If he did want custody, and did want to go back home, then what would be the problem with that?

Short & simple. The man is NOT a "flight risk" and legally the way things stand he can get on a plane tomorrow with his child & go wherever he wants...tell your friend to get her head together and for God's sake put her childs needs first and that is ultimately the only decision that she has to make on her own not by anyone else

I had a nice long post all written up, but then I saw abdmom's post...

Unless he has sole legal custody, he CANNOT get on a plane tomorrow with his child and go wherever he wants. That would be child abduction if he leaves the country without the mom's permission. Your friend needs a lawyer asap.

Basically, the only way he could leave (with the child) is if he had sole physical AND legal custody. Right now, they both have legal custody. If he were to leave, he would be abducting their child.

And he's blackmailing her? How???????

This is what I don’t understand. She has said that her X has said (often repeated by her dad) that he has “information” about her and that he’ll “come forward” if she doesn’t do XYZ (including getting rid of the restraining order asap).
I’ve asked her if she knows what this “information “ is and she thinks it involves a picture of her holding a knife (in the kitchen) or an incident where she told him she wished she could kill him. (she never would, they were in a very heated argument while she was pregnant). In neither incident did anything happen (to him) and I don’t get what the “come forward” means as this isn’t a criminal trial, it’s a divorce case where everything is basically agreed on. But, he has her nervous because he keeps saying you’ll go to prison. She thinks he’s fabricated some stories and she’s positive her father would back them up…

 

[Katie's Butterflies]

I respectfully disagree with you as since no parent has sole custody at the moment LEGALLY any parent can take any child anywhere and no law enforcement agency would intervene. Its not legally fitting the criteria of child abduction. It would be if you took your child for a trip out of state for example and your DH didn't want you to. Well you could & he could contact law and the FIRST thing they will ask is does he have SOLE legal custody and an injunction that prevents you from doing so. I don't profess to know much but I do have experience having worked for law enforcement agencies. The only way they would alert airports etc (and it was my job to put that over the nationwide LE and FBI computer systems) is if the father was wanted for something else. It happens all the time.

Yes, neither has sole custody meaning they have joint custody meaning they have to agree on what happens to the child. Maybe it’s different in California, but in order to travel, a child either has to be with both parents or have a written/signed permission from the other parent unless the one traveling has sole custody.
An example, when I was 14, my grandma took my mom and I to Ireland. In order to go, my dad had to sign a form saying he was aware of the trip and he approved it. We also had to be back by a certain time.

 

[Katie's Butterflies]

It is my prayer that the child is removed from everyone's custody and placed as soon as possible into an adoptive family far away it's relatives. It seems that no one really wants the child, doesn't it?

I almost wish he would be placed into foster care until either one or both of his parents can get their acts together. They both love him, but neither one really wants to take care of him.

Therein lies the problem. She keeps doing things to try to win their love and respect, yet none of the things she does works. If this were my friend (and she wouldn't be - not with all the drama she surrounds herself with), I'd be telling her to grow up, get a real job, and take care of her responsiblities. Stop basing her happiness on the behavior of these other people.

Yes, I have quite a bit of friend drama with this one. Lol.

She is trying very hard to find a job, but in our area there are almost none. I think every business in a 30mi radius has her resume or an application from her.

I agree though she needs to depend on herself for happiness, and a good future.

Let your friend know that if she agrees for her parents to have custody, it's very unlikely she will EVER get her son back. Tell her it's time to put her big-girl panties on and be a grown woman. If she needs help, get her to see a counselor...and have her tell the counselor her sole purpose is to figure out how to care for her child and have him full-time in her custody. And she needs to get an attorney...now.

I will try this again. She keeps saying, “yes I will take care of him…in a couple of years…when he starts school” Maybe if I add that she might never get custody and have to go to her parents anytime she wants to see him which might mean getting on a plane to go to another country, she might start thinking.

Here is a simple technique- tell your friend that it's time for her to stop blaming all her problems on her parents. It's time to behave like an adult and make the responsible choices that go along with being one. She made a baby with a man and it's time to do the right thing for her child. She is no longer the center of her universe.

Oh believe me I am trying to do this. I keep telling her our actions have consequences, that he is her son and needs her to step up and be a mom. Honestly, I wish I still knew some single moms who could tell her that she can’t put off her son until he’s convenient, because that is what she seems to want to do.

So your friend's parents are on the side of the ex but she thinks it is a good idea to leave her child with them? What is going to stop them from letting the ex take the kid out of the country? Or for that matter, what is going to stop them from just giving custody to the ex once their rights have been established?

Unless your friend smartens up and gets a lawyer to stand up for her rights, and gets one ASAP, I'm almost 100% sure she will be seeing her son for the last time.

I feel very sorry for this little boy because it sounds all the adults in this situation are a bunch of selfish, irresponsible people who need to grow up.

I agree whole heartedly with all of this.

 

[RitaE]

It really depends on what country they are entering and also the citizenship(s) of the children. If the child is under the age of 15 and hasn't been issued a US Passport, then the Passport application would have to contain the signatures of both legal guardians. Then there are countries that will deny entrance to a minor without notarized permission of all the legal parents/guardians, and others that won't.

However -- that really doesn't make him a flight risk. It simply makes him a citizen of a foreign country who might return there. And given that he has already indicated that he will be relinquishing child custody to a third party, I would think the risk of his taking the child is pretty low. I mean, he isn't even trying to obtain custody to begin with - why would we think he is going to steal a child he doesn't seem to want?

To be honest this was never a situation for a free law clinic to begin with considering that both parents are relinquishing parental rights to their child. Given that your friend apparently signed the paperwork requesting a restraint order without a full comprehension in regards to what the consequences might be ... I'm especially concerned about her ability to make far reaching legal decisions regarding her rights to her child without having an attorney explaining the process and paperwork to her.

So my much shorter answer is, quit obsessing over his attorney and make sure your friend obtains her own.

 

[Scurvy]

I had a nice long post all written up, but then I saw abdmom's post...


Basically, the only way he could leave (with the child) is if he had sole physical AND legal custody. Right now, they both have legal custody. If he were to leave, he would be abducting their child.



This is what I don’t understand. She has said that her X has said (often repeated by her dad) that he has “information” about her and that he’ll “come forward” if she doesn’t do XYZ (including getting rid of the restraining order asap).
I’ve asked her if she knows what this “information “ is and she thinks it involves a picture of her holding a knife (in the kitchen) or an incident where she told him she wished she could kill him. (she never would, they were in a very heated argument while she was pregnant). In neither incident did anything happen (to him) and I don’t get what the “come forward” means as this isn’t a criminal trial, it’s a divorce case where everything is basically agreed on. But, he has her nervous because he keeps saying you’ll go to prison. She thinks he’s fabricated some stories and she’s positive her father would back them up…

That might be true now, but as I mentioned in my post, you said the mother does not want custody. The father might want it, at some point. If he were to get it, he could take the child wherever he wanted to after that. If the grandparents end up with custody (which I understand from the previous posts appears to be what is happening) and they want to let the father take the child somewhere, he still can regardless of whether he himself has custody and regardless of how the mother feels about it. I don't understand why that's a bad thing. The child loves the father, the grandparents who apparently will have custody trust the father . . . the only person who seems to object to the father taking the child somewhere is apparently the mother, and she doesn't want custody. Based on all that, I don't see why it would be a problem if the father does eventually take the child to his home country. If the mother doesn't have custody, it doesn't matter what she thinks. And frankly, if she thinks it would be dangerous for the child to go with the father and she's not trying to get custody to prevent that then she isn't a very good parent anyway.

Her story about the "information" he has sounds extremely sketchy. I'd be taking all her stories with an entire shaker of salt at this point. Everyone holds knives at some time in their lives. Unless she's holding one to somebody's throat there's nothing incriminating about a picture of her holding one. Plenty of people say they're going to kill someone when they are angry, and the fact that she may have said something like that would never matter unless she was literally threatening to kill him in front of witnesses. It sounds to me like your friend either actually did do something wrong that she thinks could result in prison time or she's got some sort of mental problems. Either way, since she doesn't want custody it's all a moot point. Her wishes about the child won't matter at all if she doesn't have custody.

 

[Nancyg56]

They both love him, but neither one really wants to take care of him.

This is the problem. All the other stuff is just that..............stuff. None would be valid if either one of those two selfish self-centered individuals actually accepted the responsibility of having a child. I understand that your friend has issues that are the result of her upbringing but that is no excuse for dumping her child into her parents hands. The same two people who she blames for her situation. I cannot speak for her husband, I have no use for men who are not willing to honor a commitment to their wife or child.

Bottom line- neither one wants to grow up and care for the child they created and who now is going to bear the brunt of their immaturity. I do not beklieve that either one deservesd this child and quite honestly if she was my friend the conversation that we would have would not be a pleasant one. I would not be discussing the soont to be ex need for an attorney, that would be the last worry my friend would hear from me. She would be hearing what I thought of this decision to abandon her baby and how this decision was going to affect our friendship. Her character would be the discussion and her need to stand up, get an attorney and take care of her own responsibilities and stop relying on her parents to care for her child.

 

[Luvchefmic]

Do your friend the biggest favor you can ...tell her to get a lawyer...doesn't matter what any of us "know" or think we "know" if she does not then the only decision you really have to make is whether to continue being her friend...that type of person will end up sucking the life energy out of everyone around her

God Bless that child and really that's all that matters here

 

[bettymae1121]

Your friend was raised being told she was worthless, likey got more of that from her not-so DH, and still gets it from her parents. So I can see why she's having doubts thinking she can raise her DS on her own. Self confidence isn't a switch, you can't just flip it on when it's needed.

It sounds like she's from a culture that puts very little value on girls/women and therefore even parents will favor a son in law over their own daughter, even if there is emotional abuse going on (because the parents won't recognize it as abuse, it's just a husband asserting is "rights" over his wfie). Those of us born and raised in a Western culture are going to have a hard time understanding that, which is why I think some of the posts ragging on the OP's friend have been a bit harsh. Trying growing up in a culture like that and then see how strong you are!

That said, she really does needs to pull herself up, figure out what she REALLY wants (which my reading between the lines of your posts is that she actually DOES want her son...she's just scared to do it alone) and then figure out the best way to do that. I think she needs a counselor AND a lawyer, and she needs them yesterday. I know you've said you've tried talking to her, all I can say is keep trying. Don't just tell her the dry facts, either. Do your best to boost her self confidence, the better she feels about herself the stronger she'll be in dealing with her family and ex. Keep talking, keep emailing/texting/instand messaging her as much as you can. I think she needs a friend more than evern, because she sure as heck isn't getting any support from her family.

Once she signs over custody, or loses custody in a divorce, the odds of getting it back are almost ZERO. If she has any hope of keeping her son, she needs to act now.

 

[Katie's Butterflies]

Your friend was raised being told she was worthless, likey got more of that from her not-so DH, and still gets it from her parents. So I can see why she's having doubts thinking she can raise her DS on her own. Self confidence isn't a switch, you can't just flip it on when it's needed.

It sounds like she's from a culture that puts very little value on girls/women and therefore even parents will favor a son in law over their own daughter, even if there is emotional abuse going on (because the parents won't recognize it as abuse, it's just a husband asserting is "rights" over his wfie). Those of us born and raised in a Western culture are going to have a hard time understanding that, which is why I think some of the posts ragging on the OP's friend have been a bit harsh. Trying growing up in a culture like that and then see how strong you are!

That said, she really does needs to pull herself up, figure out what she REALLY wants (which my reading between the lines of your posts is that she actually DOES want her son...she's just scared to do it alone) and then figure out the best way to do that. I think she needs a counselor AND a lawyer, and she needs them yesterday. I know you've said you've tried talking to her, all I can say is keep trying. Don't just tell her the dry facts, either. Do your best to boost her self confidence, the better she feels about herself the stronger she'll be in dealing with her family and ex. Keep talking, keep emailing/texting/instand messaging her as much as you can. I think she needs a friend more than evern, because she sure as heck isn't getting any support from her family.

Once she signs over custody, or loses custody in a divorce, the odds of getting it back are almost ZERO. If she has any hope of keeping her son, she needs to act now.

Thank you for your post. This is exactly what she is going through. I am basically the only one who tells her she is not worthless, not evil, not a horrible person, and that she does deserve to live.
I agree she definitely needs to see a counselor. She was but she no longer has insurance (and she used up the free sessions given by a state agency) so she really can’t afford it. (though she really really really needs it!) She also can’t afford her anti-anxiety meds which of course is not helping things.

I will definitely tell her that if she does not get custody now, she probably never will.

Do your friend the biggest favor you can ...tell her to get a lawyer...doesn't matter what any of us "know" or think we "know" if she does not then the only decision you really have to make is whether to continue being her friend...that type of person will end up sucking the life energy out of everyone around her

I’ve already gotten the phone # and office address of several for her. I’m going to try and give them to her today.

God Bless that child and really that's all that matters here

Scurvy- Oh believe me, I know. She doesn’t want to take care of her son now, but says she will later. I keep trying to tell her it doesn’t work like that.

Also, the grandparents don’t really want their SIL to have custody either. However, they do think he is a better parent/person than their daughter. They were actually quite upset when he and his parents mentioned to them that the child’s father wanted to abduct him to another country.

As to the “information” she is scared of her husband and father. So, she takes any threats they say seriously whether they make ANY sense or not. Believe me, I know way too much about this situation and can usually tell when she is lying or jumping to conclusions.

She called me terrified when and told me verbatim what her father had said. I probed and she told me in hushed tones about the two incidences. I tried using logic to point out that they mean nothing, but my words fall on deaf ears as her imagination runs wild.

Nancyg56-I am not trying to use her past situation as an excuse for her behavior. I believe that past experiences may explain behavior but they don’t excuse it. I do appreciate your opinion. I agree, this sweet child is suffering and will continue to do so

RitaE- The child is a US citizen only, no passport.
The problem is that the father of the child has threatened (many times) in front of witnesses that he was going to take their son back to his home country so that she would never see him again. His parents have said the same thing. These conversations were not always during arguments. The guy’s parents told my friends parents this quite calmly. They had it all planned out. My friend’s dad told her and told her to make sure her son NEVER went anywhere alone with the inlaws or her then husband.

 

[RitaE]

RitaE- The child is a US citizen only, no passport.
The problem is that the father of the child has threatened (many times) in front of witnesses that he was going to take their son back to his home country so that she would never see him again. His parents have said the same thing. These conversations were not always during arguments. The guy’s parents told my friends parents this quite calmly. They had it all planned out. My friend’s dad told her and told her to make sure her son NEVER went anywhere alone with the inlaws or her then husband.

But now the friend's Dad is telling her that he's on her husband's side and your friend is scared that her parents will give the child away to the foreign Grandparents? And to be honest, when it comes down to a rooting match between a group of people who say they want a child, versus a Mother who thinks she might maybe want a child when he's older and wouldn't quite be so much work ... I'm thinking the choice is pretty obvious.

I think it is time for your friend to quit playing the woe is me victim and wallowing in all the mean things everybody has told her and grow up. Get her life together and be responsible.

 

[Katie's Butterflies]

[/B]

But now the friend's Dad is telling her that he's on her husband's side and your friend is scared that her parents will give the child away to the foreign Grandparents? And to be honest, when it comes down to a rooting match between a group of people who say they want a child, versus a Mother who thinks she might maybe want a child when he's older and wouldn't quite be so much work ... I'm thinking the choice is pretty obvious.

I think it is time for your friend to quit playing the woe is me victim and wallowing in all the mean things everybody has told her and grow up. Get her life together and be responsible.

The reality is though, I don’t think the maternal grandparents want custody exactly. I think they are taking care of the child because he is family and the child’s father can’t and the child’s mother believes she can’t/won't take care of the child.

My friend’s family are all in agreement that it would be bad to have the in-laws take the child as they aren’t exactly the healthiest of families (they are a lot worse than my friend’s family). At times, the ex even agrees his parents shouldn’t have the child because he and most of his siblings tried to get away from them as quickly as possible too when growing up. (physically and emotionally abusive household) Other times, he wants to go home to his family and bring the child with him.

Notice: in this culture, men do not take care of young children, women do. So, if he does get custody, he’d most likely hand the child off to his mother/sister-in-law etc.

It’s not an easy situation. There is no single group that has the combo of wants to + can take care of the child. It’s all either or.

 

[Luvchefmic]

From what you're telling us seems like Child Protective Services needs to step into this mess.

As far as the friend or her soon to be ex I am so sick of people crying about the tough way they were raised and forever falling back on it when they don't act responsibly. If every "victim" of bad parenting couldn't rise above it we would all be running around with AK-47's ...oh whoa is me...I wasn't treated right....

 

[Katie's Butterflies]

From what you're telling us seems like Child Protective Services needs to step into this mess.

I don’t think they’d do anything since there is no physical, sexual abuse or provable neglect…

However, as I said earlier, I do think that child should be put into foster care at least temporarily.

I don’t know who else to contact though.

As far as the friend or her soon to be ex I am so sick of people crying about the tough way they were raised and forever falling back on it when they don't act responsibly. If every "victim" of bad parenting couldn't rise above it we would all be running around with AK-47's ...oh whoa is me...I wasn't treated right....

I hate to say it but the imagery of this part of your post made me . I agree though, past experiences explain, but do not excuse, current behavior. They are a part of your history but they don’t have to completely define who you are.

 

[RitaE]

Notice: in this culture, men do not take care of young children, women do. So, if he does get custody, he’d most likely hand the child off to his mother/sister-in-law etc.

Which is the exact same thing she is doing - giving the child to her parents to raise. All of these "well this person is emotionally abusive and that person is from a culture that doesn't value women" does absolutely nothing except make her look even more like a terrible person. Not only is she refusing to take responsibility for the child she created, she's allowing the child to go into what she claims is the source of all her own personality deficits because she just can't summon up the "confidence" needed to be a parent. Gimme a break. The time to think about THAT is before you let your egg meet Mr. Sperm.

I'm sorry, this is off track. I have extremely little sympathy for people who get themselves pregnant and then refuse to honor their obligations to what they created.

If it were my friend, I personally wouldn't stand by her. I'd say "one way or another take care of your kid or we are through."

 

[cm8]

OP, since you are such a great friend and knows what the deal is, why haven't you told her that you and everyone else would be happy to provide her with Character witness at her trial? I know her son may not be your responsibility, but is there a reason you haven't volunteer to assist her with him ( I am assuming that you haven't since you have not mentioned it in your posts) till she can do it alone?

If she is being threatened by s2bxh, and her father is passing the messages, then HE is also violating her restraining order and should be held in contempt. All of them sound like they are bullying her and she had better get it together. I am in no position to say what she "needs" to do, but as a parent, she needs to do what is best for HER CHILD and awarding custody to her parents is not a great . She should at least inform the courts that her father is an accomplice and she does not feel safe with her child in that environment.

If what has truly been written here taken place, then there is no way on God's green earth that they are and will be deemed fit to care for the child. She may have had a knife after him ( and from what it seems may be good reasons) she should be easily able to explain what that issue was about and how it lead to what her life is like today. Her child needs someone that is going to assist him in life not hurt him and from what you have posted it seems as if NO ONE really has his best interest at heart. He seems to be nothing more than a PAWN and that is really sad.

She needs to be a better advocate for herself and her son. Set an example not become a statistic.

 

[Katie's Butterflies]

OP, since you are such a great friend and knows what the deal is, why haven't you told her that you and everyone else would be happy to provide her with Character witness at her trial? I know her son may not be your responsibility, but is there a reason you haven't volunteer to assist her with him ( I am assuming that you haven't since you have not mentioned it in your posts) till she can do it alone?

Um, I’m sure this is going to sound quite stupid but what is a character witness in a divorce trial? I know what a character witness is in a regular trial, but I don’t see how saying she is a good person will help her accomplish anything as she is not fighting for custody.

Also, I have volunteered to help her with the child (for free), on many occasions.I have also offered to go (and have gone) with her as a mother’s helper to the store etc. She has been invited to receive subsidized daycare and I have said more than once that I would be happy to be the care provider as she doesn’t trust babysitters/daycares. (thank you parents)Plus, I’d get paid. lol
However, she just won’t accept any help. (Although she has told me again and again that I am the only one she’d trust with her son, so I don’t think it’s me)

If she is being threatened by s2bxh, and her father is passing the messages, then HE is also violating her restraining order and should be held in contempt. All of them sound like they are bullying her and she had better get it together. I am in no position to say what she "needs" to do, but as a parent, she needs to do what is best for HER CHILD and awarding custody to her parents is not a great . She should at least inform the courts that her father is an accomplice and she does not feel safe with her child in that environment.

I keep trying to tell her that they are “bullying her,” but she doesn’t believe me. I point out that they are saying do this or we’ll do that but she denies they are doing anything wrong. Instead, she questions herself. They’ve got her right where they want her mentally.

If what has truly been written here taken place, then there is no way on God's green earth that they are and will be deemed fit to care for the child. She may have had a knife after him ( and from what it seems may be good reasons) she should be easily able to explain what that issue was about and how it lead to what her life is like today. Her child needs someone that is going to assist him in life not hurt him and from what you have posted it seems as if NO ONE really has his best interest at heart. He seems to be nothing more than a PAWN and that is really sad.

She needs to be a better advocate for herself and her son. Set an example not become a statistic.

The problem is she won’t say a word against her father. She’ll say a lot of things against her x but she thinks she needs her parents, so she won’t do anything to offend them/make them look bad.

This is why I fear the grandparents will get custody and I really believe that they shouldn’t. However, I don’t know if there is anything I can do. My friend has basically shut off her ears in regards to her child’s custody. She’s made up her mind and won’t change it easily. She’s also now decided against a lawyer.

I am really worried that this case is hopeless and that that sweet child will suffer so much because of it. I just don’t know how to help anymore.

Which is the exact same thing she is doing - giving the child to her parents to raise. All of these "well this person is emotionally abusive and that person is from a culture that doesn't value women" does absolutely nothing except make her look even more like a terrible person. Not only is she refusing to take responsibility for the child she created, she's allowing the child to go into what she claims is the source of all her own personality deficits because she just can't summon up the "confidence" needed to be a parent. Gimme a break. The time to think about THAT is before you let your egg meet Mr. Sperm.

I'm sorry, this is off track. I have extremely little sympathy for people who get themselves pregnant and then refuse to honor their obligations to what they created.

If it were my friend, I personally wouldn't stand by her. I'd say "one way or another take care of your kid or we are through."

Thank you for your opinion. I agree that she is allowing her son to be raised in the same environment she has blamed her problems on, which is very frustrating as it only hurts her child. I understand your views and I respect them.