Originally posted by WillyJ
Yep Kendra, Jefferson and Franklin were Deists. . and so were George Washington and Thomas Paine. . and John Adams and John Quincy Adams were Unitarians. . .
Defintions:
Unitarianism: Holds to the unity of God by denying the Trinity, the deity of Jesus, and the deity of the Holy Spirit. Unitarians teach the unity of God and hold to a common system of believing as you will about God, salvation, sin, etc. They often profess to have no dogma. Unitarians also hold to the universal redemption of all mankind.
Deism: The belief in a God based on natural religion only. It is concerned with those truths which humans can discover through a process of reasoning, independent of any divine revelation through scripture or personal revelation.
Some Deists hold the belief that the universe was created by a God who then made no further intervention in its affairs. .
Some quotes:
"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit." -Thomas Paine
"I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth." -Thomas Jefferson
"This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religions in it." -John Adams
"The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion" - John Adams, Treaty of Tripoli.
"I wish it (Christianity) were more productive of good works ... I mean real good works ... not holy-day keeping, sermon-hearing ... or making long prayers, filled with flatteries and compliments despised by wise men, and much less capable of pleasing the Deity." - Benjamin Franklin
I'm a Christian and proud of it. . but to say our nation was founded on strictly "Christian values" is just not true. .
I concede your point, but I have specified Judeo-Christian values. However, there were many other influences. One of which, and perhaps most importantly, was the philosophy of the Masons, which is based upon Deism.
I could give you an entire list of those influences, including Greek and Roman political philosophy, philosophers of the French enlightenment, English Common Law, and ever the Iroquois Confederation. The list is great.
Yes, we don't need a leader who has a basis in religion. The president has to understand democratic principles, the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, and have a firm background in history. A firm background in Judeo-Christian philosophy is also helpful.
While I appreciate your obvious understanding of American History, your use of Thomas Paine as a Founding Father is almost like giving Benedict Arnold similar credit. I'm sure you're aware that Thomas Paine, after the Revolution, became a confirmed Monarchist and resettled back to London. Your use of John Adams is much appreciated (the Alien/Sedition Acts notwithstanding), as he was perhaps the key Founding Father.
The failure of Jefferson and the fallacy of direct democracy (popular sovereignty) is another proof of Adams wisdom and foresight. The vision that Adams laid out in his correspondence with Jefferson illustrates his deep understanding of the need for checks and balances. There ought to be a huge Adams memorial in Washington directly opposite the Jefferson Memorial so that these old friends could glare at eachother in perpetuity.
Please reference your Adams quote. Adams was a profoundly religious man and the statement that you attribute to him, while he may have said it, is unfamiliar to me. Adams' father was a minister. Adams, himself, trained for the ministry before he decided to become a lawyer. Your Adams quote does not change the fact that Adams was a deeply religious man. While one doesn't have to have a belief in God to be a good American leader, an understanding and an appreciation for the morality and ethics as taught by Judeo Christian tradition certainly allows one to appreciate better the ideals of democracy, freedom, and equality.
Edited to add: Regarding the Adams/Tripoli quote: You are right this isn't a "Christian country" . But, the people who founded it were deeply religious men, in general, and the majority of the population were and are Christians. So this is not a "Christian country" the way an Islamic country is an "Islamic country". The foundations of it, though, are built upon Christianity.
Another (of many) example(s) of the tolerance police not showing any!
