Camera on Credit

[AndrewWG]

I don't think that I would ever put anything more than $500 on credit. If it was more than that, I just couldn't justify the payments. I would rather just save up and get what I want when I could afford it. I would love to have a 100-400mm L lens and a Canon 5D, and I could have it delivered here tomorrow if I put it on credit, but I would regret it monthly when the bill arrived. That just isn't worth it to me. I have never looked into a small loan or anything because to me, it is still a bill that has to be paid, even though it may be a better option. I have enough bills already.

 

[MICKEY88]

I don't think that I would ever put anything more than $500 on credit. If it was more than that, I just couldn't justify the payments. I would rather just save up and get what I want when I could afford it. I would love to have a 100-400mm L lens and a Canon 5D, and I could have it delivered here tomorrow if I put it on credit, but I would regret it monthly when the bill arrived. That just isn't worth it to me. I have never looked into a small loan or anything because to me, it is still a bill that has to be paid, even though it may be a better option. I have enough bills already.

I guess I just see things differently,, I figure out how much I could put away each month to save up for a new camera, then I figure out how much I could borrow having that monthly payment, that way I have the camera right away, and as far as the fear of losing my job and not being able to make the payment.. again first there is the insurance to make the payment, plus I now have the camera that will become my source of income, I turn down weddings on a regular basis, if I ever lose my job I'll start saying yes for weddings..and other photo jobs thaat I now turn down..

 

[Groucho]

Hmm. This thread smells an awful lot like half the threads over on the DVC boards. People love to argue over whether or not it's OK to finance your DVC membership, with though who didn't finance usually sneering at those who did and implying that they're dolts who can't manage money. (Which I'm not trying to imply that anyone is doing here, least of all Mark.)

Everyone has a different answer. Some love to play the "millionaire next door" card, but the millionaire next door is usually a miserable tightwad who lives like a pauper. Then there's the ones who buy all the luxuries they could ever want then find their houses being foreclosed and debt crushing down on them. I like being somewhere inbetween the two (preferably closer to the millionaire but without the attitude. )

Obviously, everyone's opinion is going to be filtered through the prism of their own financial situation. I'd like to think that my own is pretty good - some debt but far from crushing, and I happy save money by doing things like eating PB&Js for lunch most days so that I can drive a nice car and spend a little on hobbies like photography. I also get 3% back on one card and 1% back on the other (Disney card), and that can easily offset (or be more than) the cost of interest.

A good friend of mine once said, "money spent on travel is never wasted", and I agree with that. For me, an integral part of travel is photography, and so between travel and having many great shots of my son, I feel that it's worth investing a little in photography, even if it means one more month before I'm out of debt. Still, I'm planning on slowing way down after the new camera, I've got enough lenses that it's getting harder and harder to justify more.

One thing I am very lucky about - the "boat gene" skipped me entirely. My father is really into boats and has a very nice one at the moment - and MAN, those things just dwarf my car hobbies in terms of the ability to churn through dough! Fortunately, I have zero interest in owning a boat; I have enough expensive interests already!

 

[collcass]

My answer is filtered by my own financial situation and my experience in the corporate world. In my previous life (meaning before kids ) I was a banker.
In my current life, I am a mother of four and married to a civil servant (a firefighter to be exact). I've been doing freelance design work for publications for several years, but it doesn't come close to meeting my previous income so we basically live off of one income.

I don't put anything on credit cards anymore. Well, I put enough on each year to keep them open but that is really it. That being said, ITA agree with

A good friend of mine once said, "money spent on travel is never wasted", and I agree with that. For me, an integral part of travel is photography, and so between travel and having many great shots of my son, I feel that it's worth investing a little in photography, even if it means one more month before I'm out of debt.

under the proper circumstances. For us, I realize that funding our vacation or new camera equipment (the DSLR that I so desperately want) using our CCs will only mean stress in the near future over paying the bill. Over the years, we all learn vey quickly how to whip out the plastic. Many don't think of how they are going to pay for it later. Right now, I'd rather be of the mindset "if I don't have it, I'm not spending it" just for my own sanity.

There are many things in our lifetimes that are worth being in debt for. We just need to pick and choose the time and place very carefully.

Of course, I'd have no problem if santa whipped out the plastic to bring me my camera for my birthday

 

[SharonLowe]

We don't use debt/credit card for anything other than the mortgage (small) on our house. Yes, we have 2 credit cards and use them but they get paid off every time a bill comes in. We write a check when we buy a new car (only have 2 cars - one that hubby and I share (he rides the commuter rail to work) and the one we gave our son, now 22) and we don't do that very often.

If I want new camera equipment, I wait until I have sold enough stock images or portrait work to pay for it. Or, I ask for it for my birthday or Christmas. A better camera isn't going to necessarily make that much difference in people's photos; improving photo skills will.

I was heavily involved in discovering, reporting and then helping to fix the savings and loan crisis that occurred in the late 80s/early 90s. I am ticked off that no one seemed to learn from it and now we are facing a huge mortgage/debt crisis, not just sub-primes. This country and many of the people who live here are way too far in debt and now we are seeing those consequences.

 

[AndrewWG]

I guess I just see things differently,, I figure out how much I could put away each month to save up for a new camera, then I figure out how much I could borrow having that monthly payment, that way I have the camera right away, and as far as the fear of losing my job and not being able to make the payment.. again first there is the insurance to make the payment, plus I now have the camera that will become my source of income, I turn down weddings on a regular basis, if I ever lose my job I'll start saying yes for weddings..and other photo jobs thaat I now turn down..

Mickey88,

I am certainly not saying that how you do it is wrong. I don't think anyone's way is wrong. It depends on the situation. Being an amateur photographer (hoping to get better) and not having any way of making money from my images at this time, I personally don't see borrowing to pay for equipment as worth it to me. Now, if the camera and my images was a source of income to me, it would justify getting that new lens or camera body alot more in my mind. I just don't have that luxury at this point in my hobby unfortunately.

Also, the amount of money that I have poured into this house in the past year to fix it up has drastically changed my attitude towards debt. That could be greatly influencing my decision at this time as well.

 

[MICKEY88]

Mickey88,

I am certainly not saying that how you do it is wrong. I don't think anyone's way is wrong. It depends on the situation. Being an amateur photographer (hoping to get better) and not having any way of making money from my images at this time, I personally don't see borrowing to pay for equipment as worth it to me. Now, if the camera and my images was a source of income to me, it would justify getting that new lens or camera body alot more in my mind. I just don't have that luxury at this point in my hobby unfortunately.

Also, the amount of money that I have poured into this house in the past year to fix it up has drastically changed my attitude towards debt. That could be greatly influencing my decision at this time as well.

I guess another reason I didn't hesitate to get my digital camera by way of loan was doing the math on cost, shooting film I was averaging 100-200 per month for film and processing, I quickly slashed that cost by doing the loan{50 per month} and getting my digital.

I know a lot of people that spend more per month on cigarettes or beer..

photography is my anti-drug..

 

[MICKEY88]

. A better camera isn't going to necessarily make that much difference in people's photos; improving photo skills will.

.

while true to a point, better equipment/faster focusing, faster FPS. better lenses will make improvements and make a difference in any action photography

 

[cpbjgc]

Hmm. This thread smells an awful lot like half the threads over on the DVC boards. People love to argue over whether or not it's OK to finance your DVC membership, with though who didn't finance usually sneering at those who did and implying that they're dolts who can't manage money. (Which I'm not trying to imply that anyone is doing here, least of all Mark.)...

I always enjoy those threads on the DVC boards as a spectator. I've never understood why people feel the need to try and solicit the approval of anonymous DIS boarders to try and justify a large purchase they want to make using credit , but that's just me.

Hey, if you want real mileage on a question like this, try the budget board !

 

[DisneySuiteFreak]

I always enjoy those threads on the DVC boards as a spectator. I've never understood why people feel the need to try and solicit the approval of anonymous DIS boarders to try and justify a large purchase they want to make using credit , but that's just me.

I find that kind of funny too! Why would anyone ask people they don't know if they should spend money, especially on a big ticket item? Rather odd since the people on the boards aren't the ones having to pay back the money... Alot of people ask on other board threads about whether or not they should still go to Disney even though they may have just experienced a financial setback like loss of job. Why??? What do they expect people to say? More often than not they get flamed or rebuked. I think people need to prioritize their spending more. Everything in this country is marketing driven and most consumers don't even realize that they are being baited, that's why they have the 'keep up with the Jones' mentality.

Hey, if you want real mileage on a question like this, try the budget board !

I've seen some of those kinds of posts on the Budget board -- they're a real hoot! Free entertainment at least....

disclaimer: I have NAS, but it's my only hobby and I only buy what I can afford to pay off at once.

 

[Anewman]

While I have never financed a camera, I understand the need to do so for some and do not see it as an error and it might happen for me soon.

Now a computer I would never finance, they just depreciate too fast, by the time you make your first payment it is already obsolete. With Cameras they hold there value much better than most other electronics.

On anther note, I did finance 200 DVC points

 

[DVC Jen]

Hmm. This thread smells an awful lot like half the threads over on the DVC boards. People love to argue over whether or not it's OK to finance your DVC membership, with though who didn't finance usually sneering at those who did and implying that they're dolts who can't manage money. (Which I'm not trying to imply that anyone is doing here, least of all Mark.)

We financed DVC - I won't finance a camera - even though it is becoming more of a job/career for me than a hobby.

Everyone does have different priorities - and what is right for one is not for the next person.

 

[MarkBarbieri]

I can see why the DVC question provokes debate. It's an interesting one. On one hand, most people seem to feel that financing vacations is a bad idea. On the other hand, almost everything says that financing real estate is a good idea. Since a DVC purchase is sort of real estate use for vacationing, it can be argued in many different ways.

I guess in the end, I think it boils down to simple tradeoffs. When purchasing something the decision boils down to whether or not I would be better off with the money or the goods to be purchased. When you introduce credit to the equation, you've got to determine whether you'd be better off paying the extra money for financing and having the object now or be better off holding the money (and earning interest) while waiting until you can pay cash for the object.

For business objects, it's usually straightforward. Will spending X dollars earn me a sufficient return to justify the expense? Financing costs are just part of the equation. I guess it is the same in personal life except that the returns are usually non-monetary and harder to measure.

I personally eschew the use of credit because I'm a pretty impulsive and compulsive person. If I allowed myself the luxury of financing things, I could easily dig myself a deep hole. I've been following the advice a neighbor gave me as a teenager. He drew a graph (this was before Excel) showing how much money you would make if you saved and invested $250/month and how much money you would owe if you borrowed and invested $250/month. The difference was small at first, but as compounding started to snowball, the numbers became surprisingly large. I think it worked about to about $1.5 million after 40 years of 10% returns or charges.

Someone once had me read the "Millionaire Next Door" and I have to confess that I found it a bit baffling. As a respone to people constantly living on credit, it presented the examples of numerous people with millions of dollars in savings living like paupers. I couldn't understand why. My goal has always been to save enough to fund an active an interesting retirement. Eventually, I'd like to spend the money that I've been saving. The notion that I'll have millions saved and live on a meager income seems rather pointless.

OK, I'm rambling. I think it's all about tradeoffs. If I have any advice, it is to make a concious decision based on the total cost of whatever you want to buy, the financing charges, and the opportunity cost of not having the money anymore. Just remember, while you can finance almost anything in life, you cannot finance your retirement. If you hope to ever retire, you'll need to have accumulated the cash first.

For the record, I finance one piece of photography gear - a Minolta film SLR back in the 1980s when I was just getting out of college. All the rest of my camera gear has been purchased on credit cards that are paid off at the end of each month. My personal goal is to be debt free by the end of this year.

 

[mabas9395]

I guess another reason I didn't hesitate to get my digital camera by way of loan was doing the math on cost, shooting film I was averaging 100-200 per month for film and processing, I quickly slashed that cost by doing the loan{50 per month} and getting my digital.

I know that some people have saved money by switching to digital and ditching the film and processing costs (and good for you if you are one). But when you add up the lenses, bags, and other accessories I've bought the past two years since I made the switch from dPnS to dSLR, my photography costs have skyrocketed. But now that I have my equipment list mostly filled, I hope to start reaping the financial benefits of digital shortly (until canon updates their 100-400mm IS L, or comes out with some amazing features on the 40d replacement, or until I decide to replace my 28-135).

 

[Groucho]

I was heavily involved in discovering, reporting and then helping to fix the savings and loan crisis that occurred in the late 80s/early 90s. I am ticked off that no one seemed to learn from it and now we are facing a huge mortgage/debt crisis, not just sub-primes. This country and many of the people who live here are way too far in debt and now we are seeing those consequences.

Here comes my soapbox. It certainly doesn't help that our government is the worst offender. We went from paying down the nat'l deficit 10 years ago to it ballooning to record levels now. And what better way to celebrate years of irresponsible spending than to spend billions handing out free money to most Americans? Or how about stopping foreclosures so that people who have spent too much on a house don't have to move out? Certainly, the government never scrimps on what it wants when it doesn't have the money to afford it. And the government gives us free money ($300 then, more now) when the chips are down and encourages us to spend it on fun stuff.

That's hardly good financial stewardship. And then there's the companies that overextend themself, often while chasing that all-important short-term stock boost, and end up bankrupt due to poor long-term planning.

And how about the celebrities who get some bucks and live like royalty? Look at Michael Jackson's situation. Or any of the many other washed-up celebrities who find themself in millions of dollars of debt.

It's not like the average American really has much in the way of good financial role models.

OK, I'm off my soapbox now.

Anewman: I actually financed my first IBM-compatible PC (after years using various Atari computers), and am glad I did, as I was pretty quickly able to use my PC skills to make a big career switch from underpaid car dealership parts dep't employee to proper PC support work for a high-end legal firm. All in all, in hindsight, that was a good idea to buy that PC even if I had to finance it. ($2,300 for a Pentium 90 with 8 megs of RAM and a 700 meg hard drive! Good grief! Now I have probably at least a dozen PCs lying around the house. )

 

[MarkBarbieri]

Now I have probably at least a dozen PCs lying around the house.

1) My PC
2) My Wife's PC
3) Kitchen computer/laptop
4) Kid's computer
5) Kid's laptop
6) Server (becoming kids other computer this weekend)
7) Downstairs HTPC
8) Upstairs HTPC

OK, so that's only 8 active computers. I have two NAS boxes, that are sort of like computers. I also have enough parts for at least two more laying about, if you want to count those. It seems amusing to think that we got on for several years after we got married with just one computer. Now we (including the kids) are outnumbered 2-to-1 by them and are considering adding more - car PC, picture frame computer, dedicated MAME computer.

Of all of those, only 4 are brand-name computers. One is an HP I got from the brother of a Comp USA exec and the other is an old Dell I got from retrobox. The laptops are a Compaq and a Gateway.

 

[Groucho]

I'm pretty similar... On pretty much 100% of the time:
My PC
Wife's PC
Web server (I run a site from my basement)
Backup/NAS
HTPC
DirecTivo (basically a small PC running Linux and fairly hacked, with a network connection, web, FTP, etc.)

Then there's the wife's Thinkpad that gets a ton of use, and my work laptop that gets occasional use. Our Xbox is primarily used for XBMC to play back videos, music, and photos from other PCs. The PS2 is also equipped with a network jack but not used as much. And my big laser printer sits on the network.

Then there's the vidcap/guest room PC... two MAME PCs that are unfinished... and probably at least 8-10 PCs that are more or less complete and ready to use (labeled with the hardware inside and what OS they're running), and parts for more. It's rather ridiculous, I need to start pruning a little. I liked having a big collection so I'd be ready for the Dukematch at any point (Duke Nukem 3D multiplayer, for those who don't know what a Dukematch is), but we haven't had one in a while and I have no idea when we will again.

Last weekend, I redid my "network closet" (under the basement stairs), which was a total rat's nest of tangled cables. I put a hinged bracket on the wall to hold my patch panel and zip-tied network cables together and routed them cleanly, so my cable modem, wireless router, and two 8-port switches are actually clean and accessible. What a difference! Then there's the second wireless router in the living room, those cables need a cleaning... oh well, they're all hidden behind the TV. Anyway, it's ridiculous the number of network ports I'm using up. I ought to be ashamed of myself.

 

[DisneySuiteFreak]

Here comes my soapbox. It certainly doesn't help that our government is the worst offender. We went from paying down the nat'l deficit 10 years ago to it ballooning to record levels now. And what better way to celebrate years of irresponsible spending than to spend billions handing out free money to most Americans?

And this isn't really going to help our GDP because most of the goods we buy are made on foreign soil nowadays. Off the top of my head, I can't even think of one thing that I could go and spend my money on, that I would want to buy, that is made in the USA. People need to open their eyes. This is atemporary band aid that won't fix the root of the problem....

Or how about stopping foreclosures so that people who have spent too much on a house don't have to move out? Certainly, the government never scrimps on what it wants when it doesn't have the money to afford it. And the government gives us free money ($300 then, more now) when the chips are down and encourages us to spend it on fun stuff....
That's hardly good financial stewardship. And then there's the companies that overextend themself, often while chasing that all-important short-term stock boost, and end up bankrupt due to poor long-term planning....
It's not like the average American really has much in the way of good financial role models.
OK, I'm off my soapbox now.

Sadly, I agree with everything you wrote. Does anybody remember Enron? We have terrible role models and our govt is the worst of the worst offenders! It's not like when we're broke we can go write ourselves a blank check! The middle class is slowly being eroded...I often wonder what our country will be like for my son and his children if things don't change drastically, and soon... I feel so badly for all the people who live in states where manufacturing was a huge part of the economy and who have no jobs now. It's terrible...I have a friend who use to make $120k annually working in IT in California. His job was outsourced to a guy in India who gets paid $20k a year. When looking for work he's overqualified. People don't want to hire him because they think he'll leave as soon as something better comes along. The problem is...nothing better is coming along because this is happening all over our country and he's not the only overqualified person in that field whose job was outsourced. I don't think that was the original intention of the free trade agreements...At least I hope it wasn't. How much more money do these greedy corporations have to make until they're satisfied? Will we have to become the third world nations that China and India used to be before they're happy? I called Capital One the other day to report a lost credit card. The guy who answerd the phone requesting my SS # was in India. Like I'm going to want to give that info to someone on the other side of the world? I called Sprint Customer Sevice a few months ago. The lady that answered the phone was in Jamaica -- also requesting my SS#. What the heck is going on?

I feel so much better now that I've gotten that out of my system...

 

[alan]

I don't think that was the original intention of the free trade agreements...At least I hope it wasn't.

I don't want to get into too heavy a debate here; this board is about Disneyworld and photos after all, but... I rather think this was the intention of these free trade agreements.

Go back in history a few hundred years. Imagine yourself a poor farmer in Africa. If people told you about the amazing wealth in Europe or the USA you'd go wide-eyed in wonder but not be able to do anything about it.

Nowadays, with international communications and travel, people will much more easily hear about vast wealth in another country, and be in a much better position to do something about it. They'll either migrate en masse to the richer countries or they'll express their resentments of the differences through violent means... and 9/11 showed that you don't need massive resources to bring horrible levels of violence.

So world-wide levels of income have to become more level. And yes, that may well mean that the "rich" west loses out for a while as the rest of the world catches up.

That's a negative way to look at it. Turn it around, and look at the positives:

The Far East has an incredible vibrance, enthusiasm for work and ability to innovate. People there are ddoing a fantastic job of coming up with new innovations and new inventions. My six year old CRT television is perfectly good, but I want an LCD panel because it's better (higher-definition, at least). So by bringing in a larger workforce to the job ofbringing new ideas to life, we can increase the overall size of the world's economy, and the number of people involved in it, and living standards throughout the world.

That's why I believe the world free trade is a Good Thing, even though it is fickle and will probably do bad things to me personally. Over the course of a generation or three, I believe that the differences between peoples throughout the world will be reduced, and with that the risks of an economically-inspired world war will similarly be reduced.

Religious nutcases may well start a war of their own, but that's not something I can do anything about...

regards,
/alan

PS I was in Taiwan last year and was talking to someone there who was saying that they were very worried because all their manufacturing jobs seemed to be moving to China, and how would they find jobs for the workers? Sound familiar?

 

[DisneySuiteFreak]

So world-wide levels of income have to become more level. And yes, that may well mean that the "rich" west loses out for a while as the rest of the world catches up.That's a negative way to look at it. Turn it around, and look at the positives:The Far East has an incredible vibrance, enthusiasm for work and ability to innovate. ...

Remember back in the old days when you didn't have to think about buying an extended warrantee because things were Built To Last? Nowadays, they are built to break down. I can't tell you the number of name brand things (that are not made in the USA) I have bought that broke down and quit working just after the 90 manufacturer warrantee. I now buy extended warrantees on most things out of necessity/fear of getting stuck with a $400 widget that doesn't work. Sad.

That's why I believe the world free trade is a Good Thing, even though it is fickle and will probably do bad things to me personally. Over the course of a generation or three, I believe that the differences between peoples throughout the world will be reduced, and with that the risks of an economically-inspired world war will similarly be reduced.
PS I was in Taiwan last year and was talking to someone there who was saying that they were very worried because all their manufacturing jobs seemed to be moving to China, and how would they find jobs for the workers? Sound familiar?

Sadly, yes, it does sound familiar. And the Taiwanese and Chinese have long standing resentments, so it doesn't surprise me that one would squeeze out the other given the opportunity.
May I suggest you take a couple of hours to see the inspired by true events movie called Bordertown? There's a reason why they want to come here, and a reason why mainstream media brushes it under the rug to pursue entertainment news instead of real news.
I'm sorry, but I really believe that it's all about corporate greed. I'm not even a left wing liberal, although I may sound like one to some at this moment. (My DH and I own our own Corp.)
I was just in China last July. The working conditions there are atrocious. The pay is horrible over there for workers. (As it is in Mexico.) I didn't see any average citizens getting rich making pennies a day. There are a lot of beggars on the streets of Beijing. The govt there is kicking people out of their homes they've lived in for generations to make room for businesses, manufacturing, the Olympics, you name it. It's sad. They have no rights, no say in the process. They still use Leaded Gas; burn coal for fuel. It's horrible. Our Consumer Product Safety commisioner sounded like she was a walking billboard for the Chinese manufacturers the other day on the news. They are supposed to protect us from dangers like Lead in our kids toys. That's their job. Instead they were on the defensive defending the Chinese manufacturers. Smelled like a payoff to me...Most corporations go there to manufacture goods to save money. Sorry to get so far off the original topic...But really, I highly recommend the movie Bordertown if you haven't seen it.

Back to the topic at hand: if people want to buy stuff on credit that's up to them. They're the ones who have to pay it back. I just thought it was funny about the DVC thread and people who ask strangers if they should spend money when they've just had a financial setback.