Buying for trips with multiple adults

[kboo]

Have you considered 75 direct at a future resort, maybe Riviera or Poly Phase 2 (OK, I made that one up. That's what would tempt me)? We're not interested Aulani/CCV due to location, high annual dues, and the home resort window being not as important there. But a contract at a new resort with reasonable MF, full 50 years, purchasing December UY in November to get 2 years of points and pay only 1 month of dues... That shrinks the difference in purchase price and makes it more palatable

Thank you. I wanted an October UY and I have stayed at the GF the past few Decembers with another reservation coming up this December. This would definitely be the resort I would want to stay at for that time of year and if I happened to switch gears one year and do a late October trip. I would not want to use the VGF points on a different resort. I was looking at 100 points initially each way. 100 resale to get my feet wet and it seems like there are a few of these out there OR 100 direct since it is the minimum. Looks like there is still a lot to consider. I have been going back and forth for a few years so I guess a little more time won't hurt.

I feel like there are a decent # of 200 point VGF contracts as compared to 100 point contracts. Also, VGF direct, if you can even get it, it SO expensive. If you're really set on getting the direct points, I'd buy the 75 at a cheaper resort and use those as your "sleep around" points.

You can definitely get VGF for $150 or lower, you just have to be patient and keep watching. I got a 100 point add on recently for $150pp - rented the extra points I couldn't use, and my effective cost per point was $140. I also bought my big starter contract last fall at $135 pp (it was a different era then). But - I think there is another VGF >150 points that recently passed ROFR at or maybe even below $150? Don't just look at asking prices for VGF - they are being silly. Also, 100 points and smaller at VGF DO go at a premium, which I still find mystifying because rooms cost so much in points that you really need to be looking at a 200 point contract if you want to use it annually and have a cushion if all the standard studios are gone.

 

[PolyRob]

I feel like there are a decent # of 200 point VGF contracts as compared to 100 point contracts. Also, VGF direct, if you can even get it, it SO expensive. If you're really set on getting the direct points, I'd buy the 75 at a cheaper resort and use those as your "sleep around" points.

You can definitely get VGF for $150 or lower, you just have to be patient and keep watching. I got a 100 point add on recently for $150pp - rented the extra points I couldn't use, and my effective cost per point was $140. I also bought my big starter contract last fall at $135 pp (it was a different era then). But - I think there is another VGF >150 points that recently passed ROFR at or maybe even below $150? Don't just look at asking prices for VGF - they are being silly. Also, 100 points and smaller at VGF DO go at a premium, which I still find mystifying because rooms cost so much in points that you really need to be looking at a 200 point contract if you want to use it annually and have a cushion if all the standard studios are gone.

I was throwing around the idea of getting the 75 at another resort, but with the 1/18 increase they all seem so high direct now (kicking myself a little that I did not do it with the 25 minimum days and when VGF was 185 direct). In the spring I do frequent the Epcot resort area. I like Yacht/Beach, but was concerned with the 24 year expiration and if I were to sell it off after say 15 years (not saying I plan on it, but you never know). The difference would be $2,625 which is a decent amount, but compared to the whole contract's life it is not as significant.

I did make the mistake of looking at the asking price. The one website I chatted with said the seller would possibly only come down $2 since it was a "small" contract. I laughed considering it was listed at $185. The ROFR threads do show some passing at $145-$160 in the past few months around the same points size. Decisions decisions...

 

[Mumof4mice]

I was throwing around the idea of getting the 75 at another resort, but with the 1/18 increase they all seem so high direct now (kicking myself a little that I did not do it with the 25 minimum days and when VGF was 185 direct). In the spring I do frequent the Epcot resort area. I like Yacht/Beach, but was concerned with the 24 year expiration and if I were to sell it off after say 15 years (not saying I plan on it, but you never know). The difference would be $2,625 which is a decent amount, but compared to the whole contract's life it is not as significant.

I did make the mistake of looking at the asking price. The one website I chatted with said the seller would possibly only come down $2 since it was a "small" contract. I laughed considering it was listed at $185. The ROFR threads do show some passing at $145-$160 in the past few months around the same points size. Decisions decisions...

I think I know the site you're referring to. That's exactly what they told me too. I have had offers countered at $15 below asking there. But still more than what I was happy to pay.

I think kboo has a great suggestion in looking for a bigger contract (better cost pp) and adding on at some later point for resort hopping. I know even sleeping around using my $145 Poly points is going to hurt. Can't imagine trying to book Epcot resorts with $220 VGF points!

 

[Bing Showei]

kicking myself a little that I did not do it with the 25 minimum days and when VGF was 185 direct

I wouldn’t spend too much time kicking yourself. I was on a waitlist for VGF direct points for a good six months and ended up settling on buying a small 25pt SSR before the price jump. By the time my waitlist came through for VGF, it would’ve meant having to buy 75 points at $220/pt to get any sort of benefits; a lot of APs before that makes financial sense.

 

[kboo]

I recognize I’m one of the ones who got in with 25 direct BLT points last year, but even at that rate, it’s going to take a while to “make back” the almost $4600 I spent on those points; I don’t know if spending $16k+ is worth it for the perks.

P.S. I got my $135pp VGF from that site when most of the other ones were asking 150-160 and up.

 

[PolyRob]

I think I know the site you're referring to. That's exactly what they told me too. I have had offers countered at $15 below asking there. But still more than what I was happy to pay.

I think kboo has a great suggestion in looking for a bigger contract (better cost pp) and adding on at some later point for resort hopping. I know even sleeping around using my $145 Poly points is going to hurt. Can't imagine trying to book Epcot resorts with $220 VGF points!

Agreed! I don't think I could ever be able to bring myself to stay outside of VGF with VGF points.

I wouldn’t spend too much time kicking yourself. I was on a waitlist for VGF direct points for a good six months and ended up settling on buying a small 25pt SSR before the price jump. By the time my waitlist came through for VGF, it would’ve meant having to buy 75 points at $220/pt to get any sort of benefits; a lot of APs before that makes financial sense.

Thanks, this makes me feel a little better knowing that is may not have worked out. Live and learn.

I recognize I’m one of the ones who got in with 25 direct BLT points last year, but even at that rate, it’s going to take a while to “make back” the almost $4600 I spent on those points; I don’t know if spending $16k+ is worth it for the perks.

P.S. I got my $135pp VGF from that site when most of the other ones were asking 150-160 and up.

I will try pricing contracts out estimating in the $145-$165 range compared to asking price of $170-$190. I see two out there in my desired UY. Do you think submitting an offer for $35 less per point than asking will just get laughed at?

 

[hlhlaw07]

Agreed! I don't think I could ever be able to bring myself to stay outside of VGF with VGF points.



Thanks, this makes me feel a little better knowing that is may not have worked out. Live and learn.



I will try pricing contracts out estimating in the $145-$165 range compared to asking price of $170-$190. I see two out there in my desired UY. Do you think submitting an offer for $35 less per point than asking will just get laughed at?

The broker is likely to admonish you about coming in so low, but just tell them that is your offer and please present it to the seller. I placed an offer for $148 on a contract listed at $171 and the broker told me there was no way the seller would accept and I might not get a counter offer. I said ok, I still want to offer $148. The seller accepted without a counter. So you, and the broker for that matter, never know.

 

[Dean]

Thank you. I wanted an October UY and I have stayed at the GF the past few Decembers with another reservation coming up this December. This would definitely be the resort I would want to stay at for that time of year and if I happened to switch gears one year and do a late October trip. I would not want to use the VGF points on a different resort. I was looking at 100 points initially each way. 100 resale to get my feet wet and it seems like there are a few of these out there OR 100 direct since it is the minimum. Looks like there is still a lot to consider. I have been going back and forth for a few years so I guess a little more time won't hurt.

It seems to me you might have to possibly make a choice between VGF and direct. Regardless, if you're set on VGF I'd buy that first depending on your second options because it'll be difficult to match up VGF than anything other than maybe Aulani subsidized or VGC. And if you're set on direct you might bite the bullet and see if you can get VGF direct and kill 2 birds with one stone (in addition to your bank account).

I recognize I’m one of the ones who got in with 25 direct BLT points last year, but even at that rate, it’s going to take a while to “make back” the almost $4600 I spent on those points; I don’t know if spending $16k+ is worth it for the perks.

P.S. I got my $135pp VGF from that site when most of the other ones were asking 150-160 and up.

You should probably only look at having to make up the difference between resale and retail, not the entire amount. You could always rent out every few years if you truly don't need the extra 25 pts.

 

[kboo]

You should probably only look at having to make up the difference between resale and retail, not the entire amount. You could always rent out every few years if you truly don't need the extra 25 pts.

Yes, you are right. Although this is also how Disney math works: We originally thought we'd go once a year, and alternate years in a studio and a 1BR (with 2 kids). By that calculation and based on when we expected to go (late summer), 150 points give or take would have been enough at BLT. Most of the resale contracts we saw at the time were either 160 or 200 point contracts. The 200-pointers were at a noticeable discount to the 160-pointers, but either would have done fine, and if we'd gotten a 200 pointer we would have "planned" to rent out any extra points. At the time of purchase, based on what our anticipated travel needs were, we really didn't "need" a 25 point add on if we bought a 160 point contract. (And a 100 point contract + a 25 point add-on wasn't *quite* enough, and smaller contracts were harder to find)

So instead, I looked at how much a 25 point contract would cost, and thought about how that would be an added cushion that might allow us to get into 1br more often, or add an extra day to our stay, but would it be worth it if the only real perk of value was the gold APs. (Then they came out with the PAP+ for the price of gold, which just pushed me over the edge.)

Now, with 185 points, it's starting to look like 1BR more often, or possibly even annually for less than a week. And then it turns into a slight regret that we should have bought more points resale when prices were lower, which then led to ... VGF points. And now my VGF points outnumber BLT points by a lot, but the point costs at BLT are more reasonable, so now... I am waiting for BLT prices to come down and then I will make a pitch for another add on, because DH has also now decided that we cannot be in anything smaller than a 1BR at BLT (and I tend to agree...)

Disney math. Or rather, Disney accounting.

ETA: and we are going far more often than once a year now....

 

[kboo]

I will try pricing contracts out estimating in the $145-$165 range compared to asking price of $170-$190. I see two out there in my desired UY. Do you think submitting an offer for $35 less per point than asking will just get laughed at?

So what if they do? Somewhere on this board is a thread about lowball offers. I am in the second tier of lowballers. I would consider @Jerry5788, @Bing Showei and @TexasChick123 lowballers to aspire to... lol.

The broker is likely to admonish you about coming in so low, but just tell them that is your offer and please present it to the seller. I placed an offer for $148 on a contract listed at $171 and the broker told me there was no way the seller would accept and I might not get a counter offer. I said ok, I still want to offer $148. The seller accepted without a counter. So you, and the broker for that matter, never know.

Wow! I saw your contract on the ROFR thread and I was wondering how you got there. Rock on!!

 

[Bing Showei]

So what if they do? Somewhere on this board is a thread about lowball offers. I am in the second tier of lowballers. I would consider @Jerry5788, @Bing Showei and @TexasChick123 lowballers to aspire to... lol.

Here's a post by Mumof4mice (who I would certainly add to the shameless group of bargain hunters) that started a conversation around lowballing.

I will try pricing contracts out estimating in the $145-$165 range compared to asking price of $170-$190. I see two out there in my desired UY. Do you think submitting an offer for $35 less per point than asking will just get laughed at?

I'm with kboo on this one. It shouldn't matter what they think of your offer as long as it's an offer that represents what you are truly willing to pay. This does require a little bit of reflection on what you value though.

I'm of the belief that you should pay what you think something is worth. If that $170 contract is EXACTLY what you need and are looking for on the contract, is negotiating that additional $5/pt worth it when you factor in the what you'll likely spend on over your ownership of that contract (total buy-in cost, ADs, meals, tickets/APs, etc.)? On a 200 point contract is saving $1,000.00 worth missing the perfect contract? Maybe yes, maybe no. But your offer should reflect how you value that contract.

Sometimes, it's worth haggling because the contract is not perfect. Other times, you may be happier just paying it instead of spending all this time going back and forth with brokers and sellers and constantly visiting sites. Or maybe you do enjoy the chase. In which case, have at it.

 

[PolyRob]

So what if they do? Somewhere on this board is a thread about lowball offers. I am in the second tier of lowballers. I would consider @Jerry5788, @Bing Showei and @TexasChick123 lowballers to aspire to... lol.

Wow! I saw your contract on the ROFR thread and I was wondering how you got there. Rock on!!

Here's a post by Mumof4mice (who I would certainly add to the shameless group of bargain hunters) that started a conversation around lowballing.

I'm with kboo on this one. It shouldn't matter what they think of your offer as long as it's an offer that represents what you are truly willing to pay. This does require a little bit of reflection on what you value though.

I'm of the belief that you should pay what you think something is worth. If that $170 contract is EXACTLY what you need and are looking for on the contract, is negotiating that additional $5/pt worth it when you factor in the what you'll likely spend on over your ownership of that contract (total buy-in cost, ADs, meals, tickets/APs, etc.)? On a 200 point contract is saving $1,000.00 worth missing the perfect contract? Maybe yes, maybe no. But your offer should reflect how you value that contract.

Sometimes, it's worth haggling because the contract is not perfect. Other times, you may be happier just paying it instead of spending all this time going back and forth with brokers and sellers and constantly visiting sites. Or maybe you do enjoy the chase. In which case, have at it.

There is a contract where the seller is asking for just about $30 less per point than direct. That is not enough of a savings (IMO) for a 200 point contract.

I have no problem constantly checking or stalking if I really want something. Realistically if I went through with it, I know I would not be using it to vacation until December 2019 at the earliest. Resale or direct I would have to take a chance.

 

[Mumof4mice]

Do you think submitting an offer for $35 less per point than asking will just get laughed at?

No way. Seller can "ask" for a price, but you don't have to grant it. Once they put the contract up for sale it's fair game.

Here's a post by Mumof4mice (who I would certainly add to the shameless group of bargain hunters) that started a conversation around lowballing.

I'm with kboo on this one. It shouldn't matter what they think of your offer as long as it's an offer that represents what you are truly willing to pay. This does require a little bit of reflection on what you value though.

I'm of the belief that you should pay what you think something is worth. If that $170 contract is EXACTLY what you need and are looking for on the contract, is negotiating that additional $5/pt worth it when you factor in the what you'll likely spend on over your ownership of that contract (total buy-in cost, ADs, meals, tickets/APs, etc.)? On a 200 point contract is saving $1,000.00 worth missing the perfect contract? Maybe yes, maybe no. But your offer should reflect how you value that contract.

Sometimes, it's worth haggling because the contract is not perfect. Other times, you may be happier just paying it instead of spending all this time going back and forth with brokers and sellers and constantly visiting sites. Or maybe you do enjoy the chase. In which case, have at it.

I'm gunning for a place in the Shameless Bargain Hunter's hall of fame. We should start a lowballer thread - bragging and hyperbole encouraged!