Buying DVC - A few questions and advice

[Princesses and Pirates]

Been looking at DVC for several years now (about 7) and after the rack rate for this last trip (2 bedroom villa at AK Kidani for 8 nights - even with the summer discount it was a chunk of cash) it's looking like the scales are tipped to pull the trigger and buy.

DH says he would agree if we can use points to do other things than just Disney every year or every other year. Which I know is not the best use of points but he needs to be happy too.

I had been doing research on resales but my understanding of the changes in resales will not allow use of points for anything other than Disney properties. If we buy resale for the large portion of the points we need and then a smaller contract 25-50 points direct and have the same UY and titled the same will that allow usage of points for places other than Disney World? Is the minimum number of points required 160 to be a DVC member? We are discussing 200-400 points so this may not matter but I would like to be clear on requirements as we may look for several smaller contracts as we have more than one child....

I think we need to find a resale or two with the right matching UY complete the sales and then buy a direct add on from Disney? But may have to wait if they don't have the matching use year or points for the resort we want (not looking for Hawaii or the Poly). We are able to wait a year or two to pull all this together so no tight timeline here.

Also, I am still (after all these years I would think I would have this figured out but I don't!) confused about UY. If we plan on traveling mostly in August, September and occasionally December should we be looking at a use year in June? Not sure if I have that backwards and should be looking at October?

We have only stayed at the SSR and AKL Kidani and really liked both but Kidani is our favorite of the two. I would like BCV but have not been able to book there to check it out (DH likes the BWV but again we have not been able to book there to check it out) so we are a little torn on where to buy. With five kids (21 to 11 - 11 year olds are twins), one soon to be married and we believe a grandkid not too far after we are most likely looking at two bedroom villas for a while longer. At least until some start dropping out of the family vacations or we start taking their separate families along with us. Should I be looking at the number of villas also available at each resort in combination with the 11 and 7 month booking windows? We really have no desire to be on the monorail loop at this time (maybe if we are blessed with grandkids) but the kids are liking Epcot and DHS more and more with every trip.

I can't believe I have so many questions after reading so much over the years! Obviously I do and it's a big step for us so I want to make sure I've tried to consider all the possibilities.

Thanks!

 

[kniquy]

not allow use of points for anything other than Disney properties.

You can use your points at other properties other than at WDW - so that would include DL, Hawaii, Hilton Head and Vero Beach. So there are other options for off years. You can exchange into RCI (I never have, nor know much about), but i think there are additional fees and the exchange in points isn't a good use or value. If you want to travel some years elsewhere then you rent your points for about $11-14 per point and you use that cash for your other trip. If you buy direct there are other options, cruises and other travels, but again not a good value for those points usage - that only applies to the points that were purchased direct.

If we plan on traveling mostly in August, September and occasionally December should we be looking at a use year in June?

You would probably want an August UY. This only matters if you think that the trip might get cancelled and then you would have time to still use the points before they expire. This is a confusing matter for many people -- We likely travel Feb -August so we have a Feb UY.

You will constantly have questions even once you own. There are always new scenarios to figure out.

One thing to consider is that if you and your family like to travel to WDW only every other year and have other trips in between then look at points charts figure out the time frames you travel and the rooms you would need and purchase only half the needed points. This might be a good way to start into DVC and then add on as needed.

You may want to also look at the yearly maintenance fees as well as the contract expiration dates. These might factor in where you buy. SSR tends to be the best value with lower cost per point and one of the lowest maintenance fees.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I had been doing research on resales but my understanding of the changes in resales will not allow use of points for anything other than Disney properties.

Not quite. Resale cannot do the Disney Collection (non-DVC Disney properties) or cruises, but can do RCI trades. You can also rent the points out and use the $$ to cruise, which is generally a better way to "cruise on points" than paying with the points.

If we buy resale for the large portion of the points we need and then a smaller contract 25-50 points direct and have the same UY and titled the same will that allow usage of points for places other than Disney World?

No, your resale points will be usable for DVC properties and RCI only, regardless of the direct purchase. Again, renting them out and using the $ elsewhere is a good plan.

Is the minimum number of points required 160 to be a DVC member?

No. Any size master contract makes you a DVC "member."

If we plan on traveling mostly in August, September and occasionally December should we be looking at a use year in June? Not sure if I have that backwards and should be looking at October?

No, June is right. You are better traveling early in a UY than late.

Should I be looking at the number of villas also available at each resort in combination with the 11 and 7 month booking windows?

It's good data to consider. I would also include when you travel. Even for 2BRs, Epcot resorts absolutely demand 11-month priority from September through January marathon weekend, and it's helpful for most other holidays and runDisney weekends.

 

[Disney Dad ADL]

DH says he would agree if we can use points to do other things than just Disney every year or every other year. Which I know is not the best use of points but he needs to be happy too

You can, but if you are going to do this I probably would consider not buying DVC. If using points outside of DVC is an important aspect of DVC it might not be right for you.

For resale contracts you can:
1. Exchange into RCI timeshare exchange
2. Go to DVC in Aulani, Hilton Head, or Vero Beach, which I wouldn't really consider "Disney" in the traditional sense.

For direct contracts you can also:
1. Book Disney Cruises
2. Book non-DVC hotels in the Disney/Concierge/World collection
3. Adventures by Disney

My understanding is that all of these options are a poor use of points and it is much cheaper to book cash (except the DVC resorts mentioned above).

If we buy resale for the large portion of the points we need and then a smaller contract 25-50 points direct and have the same UY and titled the same will that allow usage of points for places other than Disney World?

No. Resale points can never be used outside the DVC system outside (except RCI), no matter how many direct points you add. Resale points also retain their home resort priority, so if you buy a bunch of resale SSR points and a direct VGF contract, you still can't use SSR points for VGF at 11 months (you can at 7 months of course).

Is the minimum number of points required 160 to be a DVC member?

No minimum to get the member perks as of now, though it could change at any time. As mentioned above though, using your points outside of DVC is not a perk that you can gain.

I think we need to find a resale or two with the right matching UY complete the sales and then buy a direct add on from Disney?

You will get various opinions as to how important matching UY is, and it also depends on how many points you're buying I think. You could probably make a separate thread for more detailed discussion. A majority prefers same UY due to easier management. Some people will buy 2 contracts with the intent of using them separately for the most part (like me, I have VGC and BLT separate UY), so UY matters less and just try to get the best deal possible. If you have very small contracts I might also favor same UY because you will usually be combining your points with your other contracts.

A select few purposely get different UY because you get 2 additional wait lists with each additional membership.

, I am still (after all these years I would think I would have this figured out but I don't!) confused about UY. If we plan on traveling mostly in August, September and occasionally December should we be looking at a use year in June? Not sure if I have that backwards and should be looking at October?

Yes, June there is better than October. But I would say UY is overrated. Actually it's meaningless if you never cancel a vacation. Just get the best deal you can. It's not worth spending an extra $1000 to get the perfect UY IMO.

Should I be looking at the number of villas also available at each resort in combination with the 11 and 7 month booking windows?

In theory this is useful information, but unless you are a DVC member, there's no way for you to check availability. There is a useful thread on this though:

http://www.disboards.com/threads/pr...-some-1-bedrooms-vgc-update-10-21-15.3419112/

 

[ziravan]

1. Buying a 25 point contract direct after buying resale will restore membership status but it won't convert the resale points to use for things like cruises, concierge collection and adventures by Disney.

But. Those are horrible uses of points and would only be compounded by spending far more than necessary to obtain those benefits.

For a 2 BR for a week, you're talking about buying what, 500 points? You'd pay $20grand more for the right to lose money trading out for cruises if you bought AKV retail instead of resale for that purpose.

And. In the meantime, if you rented those points for $12/point one year (fairly simple to do), you'd have $6000 towards a cruise (vs an exchange rate of about $4,000 to trade within Disney). So. You'd pay $20grand for the privilege of losing $2grand on the transaction.

It's an extraordinarily bad tradeoff. Stop considering it.

2. June UY would be a good UY for Augusr/Fall travel.

3. If you normally go in August, then you should be able to sample other resorts from time to time, including BCV and August is a great time to go there (storm along bay!) But - understand this:

From the start of F&W in mid-Sept to the end of Jan marathon 2nd week of Jan is DVC busy season. You'll need to book your home resort at close to 11 months to get what you want then. If you plan to travel then, buy where you want to stay.

AKV sounds like a good choice for you. Also, OKW (extended contract) could get you the bigger rooms at a cheaper per night cost, or BWV (good Fall booking and cheap standard rooms). Both OKW and BWV could really stretch your points in cost of points per nights. Considering that you're looking for larger rooms consistently (and let's face it, with grandkids that's not gonna change even as kids become adults), I would consider OKW and BWV (cheaper points) vs AKV (you like it there).

Also. I'd try to keep contracts in same UY and I'd buy multiple. They're much easier to sell the smaller the size. On the other hand, if you buy 1 large contract, they're cheaper.

 

[disneynutz]

Have you thought of renting a DVC reservation from an owner?

Bill

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Just buy the amount of points you need ONLY for DVC accommodations. Save the extra purchase money and fees and pay cash for other trips.
You can bank & borrow should you not "DVC" every year.

MG

 

[BillPA]

Floundering for 7 years, you could have paid it off by now with what you have paid to stay on cash...

 

[Princesses and Pirates]

Only two trips in those seven years. Lots of things going on in life and work and vacations were just not happening. But still, yes, a chunk could have been paid. Looking forward and planning on future trips has pushed the 'buy' as it does make sense not to spend the money for just a cash reservation.

Thanks for the advice. Some good points I had not considered and really should! So glad I asked!!!!

 

[Princesses and Pirates]

You can use your points at other properties other than at WDW - so that would include DL, Hawaii, Hilton Head and Vero Beach. So there are other options for off years. You can exchange into RCI (I never have, nor know much about), but i think there are additional fees and the exchange in points isn't a good use or value. If you want to travel some years elsewhere then you rent your points for about $11-14 per point and you use that cash for your other trip. If you buy direct there are other options, cruises and other travels, but again not a good value for those points usage - that only applies to the points that were purchased direct.

You would probably want an August UY. This only matters if you think that the trip might get cancelled and then you would have time to still use the points before they expire. This is a confusing matter for many people -- We likely travel Feb -August so we have a Feb UY.

You will constantly have questions even once you own. There are always new scenarios to figure out.

One thing to consider is that if you and your family like to travel to WDW only every other year and have other trips in between then look at points charts figure out the time frames you travel and the rooms you would need and purchase only half the needed points. This might be a good way to start into DVC and then add on as needed.

You may want to also look at the yearly maintenance fees as well as the contract expiration dates. These might factor in where you buy. SSR tends to be the best value with lower cost per point and one of the lowest maintenance fees.

Yes, I had looked at the maintenance fees and AKV is one of the higher ones. As such it was part of the hesitation. BWV with the clown pool has hesitations for me personally, lol!

 

[Princesses and Pirates]

Decided that renting points is the better way to go if we will not be using them. Then spend the cash on the other travel or the maintenance fees. Using them for other travel sounds like a terrible waste and definitely something I would like to avoid.

So, do I need to purchase any points direct? Is there somewhere that tells me the advantage of a direct purchase versus resale? With our every other year trip plan I wouldn't benefit from AP passes unless DH and I planned a short alone trip in addition to a family trip in one year - which might happen depending on banking and borrowing or selling points. I read things changed for resale again in April so not sure if a small direct would be worth the investment at all for us if all that's left is AP discounts......

 

[Disney Dad ADL]

Yes, I had looked at the maintenance fees and AKV is one of the higher ones. As such it was part of the hesitation. BWV with the clown pool has hesitations for me personally, lol!

Well, when it comes to cost, AKV I think is still cheaper than BWV, however there's a couple different ways to look at it:

1. Price per point over the life of the contract

Basically, you take the initial cost per point and divide it over the remaining years of the contract. Then you add the annual dues. Results are as follows:



Note that this assumes MFs never increase, which obviously will not happen, and also the initial $/pt can vary depending on what deal you get, so it's really a rough sketch at best. But as you can see, by this measure (look at column G), AKV still is pretty decent per point, while BWV does not fare so well (since the dues are also relatively high with a shorter contract). If you assume the MFs go up by a certain percentage each year, AKV and BWV will probably get slightly closer, but I am not sure that BWV would actually get cheaper that AKV. SSR is almost certainly the cheapest and will likely remain that way no matter what adjustments you make.

Edit: An interesting thing happens if you try to do the same calculation adjusting for increase in MFs over the years. Contracts with later contract end dates actually get penalized and end up being the worst due to the way the calculation works, so I'll have to think about how best to adjust for all of this. But I suspect that if you assume 4% increase in MFs per year, that AKV does indeed get more expensive or at least very close to BWV.

2. Point costs of rooms

It's nice that BLT is second cheapest in terms of $ per point, however you also have to consider how many points it takes to secure a room. Consider the number of points it costs per night for a standard view studio in adventure season:
BLT - 14, AKV - 11 (9 for value), BWV - 10.

It's nice that BLT is cheaper per point, however you would need to buy a larger contract in order to have enough points at BLT vs BWV for example, which may eat in to your savings. The flip side to that is that if you only buy just enough points to stay at BWV standard studio, then you can't really stay anywhere else since you don't have enough points, but if you can afford enough points to stay at BLT, then you have more freedom to stay elsewhere at the 7 month window.

So, do I need to purchase any points direct?

Not really. Direct perks include:

1. Discounts on food and merchandise
2. Occasional member events
3. Access to the Member Lounge in Epcot
4. Discounts on annual passes (probably the most important perk if you can use it)
5. Occasional discounts on tickets. The last discount for the 25th anniversary were OK but not extraordinary.

Currently TOTWL and pool hopping are still allowed for "non-members", but this could change in the future.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Honestly, for every other year (or less), few of the "member benefits!" mean much. I don't see the Epcot lounge being there past 2018/2019 (redevelopment). Member events are somewhat goofy in that they are rarely announced 11+ months out. Annual pass discounts don't help when you aren't going multiple times a year.

Compared to the savings of resale, the benefits for someone not setting as a power-user of DVC (every trip, multiple trips per year, Disney-or-bust) are not going to be "worth" the extra cost of direct.

 

[supersnoop]

I don't see the Epcot lounge being there past 2018/2019 (redevelopment).

I thought it was specifically a 25th anniversary perk, so I don't expect it to be there next year.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I thought it was specifically a 25th anniversary perk, so I don't expect it to be there next year.

It seems nice enough to hang around until they announce redevelopment plans for that area, which we all know to be inevitable once Pandora opens and HS is far enough along.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Oh heavens.... I would hope a DVC sitting area wouldn't dictate a direct purchase vs resale. As noted, the only real benefit would be an AP discount, and if not visiting multiple times a year that is not an issue.

MG

 

[Dean]

I agree that a private rental is likely the best/cheapest in this situation. IMO one needs to go about every 2 years to a DVC resort to make owning feasible. I also agree that one should NEVER buy DVC planning to use the points for anything other than DVC resorts. The question I have is what are your other plans for vacations going forward. Basically would other timeshares offer savings and better choices than DVC would?

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Oh heavens.... I would hope a DVC sitting area wouldn't dictate a direct purchase vs resale. As noted, the only real benefit would be an AP discount, and if not visiting multiple times a year that is not an issue.

MG

Actually, Epcot Lounge access is direct and pre-4/16 resales only. New resales cannot use it.

But, seriously, it's not worth $50 per point for a few outlets and Coke.

 

[kniquy]

1. Discounts on food and merchandise

If you get a Disney Visa card it seems like you get better perks than what DVC provides --

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Remember, even though you might have your Disney Visa® Card linked to a MagicBand or RF-enabled card, you will still need to present your Disney Visa Card at the Cardmember Character Meet ‘N’ Greet locations and use it for purchases to receive your Cardmember perks throughout your stay.

Pack the pixie dust! Download and print this handy Cardmember Perks Guide!

• 
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  Feel the power of the Force at the Star Wars™ Meet ‘N’ Greet, offered daily from 11am to 4pm at the Star WarsLaunch Bay in the Animation Courtyard at Disney’s Hollywood Studios®. You’ll receive downloads of your photos to mark your visit to the dark side! Simply present your Disney Visa Credit Card to enter this exclusive location.
  
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  Receive 10% off select merchandise purchases of $50 or more at select locations at Walt Disney World® Resort.
  
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Also don’t miss these helpful vacation tips from a Disney Parks Moms Panelist, and discover how to get more out of your Disney Visa® Card during a visit to a Disney Park.

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[supersnoop]

If you get a Disney Visa card it seems like you get better perks than what DVC provides --

I disagree: http://allears.net/pl/disc_other.pdf