Buying at Vero Beach to Stay at WDW??

[lynngirl]

I need some advice and fast, I am currently bidding on a Vero Beach resale and I am purchasing Vero Beach but do not plan on staying at Vero Beach but using my points to Stay at DVC resorts at WDW? What is your opinion: Pro's and Con's !! Thanks

 

[CarolMN]

If you are not planning to stay at VB, then IMO, there are mostly cons:

Pros:

Lower buy-in

Cons:

Higher dues than the other DVC resorts. Will eat up the lower buy-in cost relatively soon.

Lower Resale value

You can only reserve a WDW DVC resort at the 7 month window. Depending on when you travel, the villa size and view, your choices may come down to SSR or OKW, or a split stay or maybe even none at all (you should be able to find something somewhere if you book right at 7 months, though).

It's possible that a bad storm could destroy VB. DVC could decide not to rebuild. While you may receive some benefit from insurance, you would be out of the Club.

DVC could decide to sell VB (not likely, but possible). If so, you could only stay at VB.

If you really only want to stay at WDW, consider a resale for SSR or one of the other DVC resorts located there. Dues will be lower and you can book at 11 months. I don't believe the prices for those two are that much higher than VB.

 

[chalee94]

I am purchasing Vero Beach but do not plan on staying at Vero Beach but using my points to Stay at DVC resorts at WDW?

i don't think this is a good idea.

it should work most of the time, but as carolmn says, it's too risky for most people.

if you want to stay onsite at wdw, buy SSR or OKW and book at 10-11 months out...then try to change at 7 months out...if it works, you're golden, if not, you're still onsite at wdw.

if you buy VB and can't get anything onsite at 7 months out (rare but it has happened), then your pts go to waste...it's just not worth the extra hassle...

 

[mcraige]

I thought about doing the same thing, till I found out that MF at Vero are among the highest of any property. Now, I'm considering OKW or SSR. I've stayed in both, and although BCV (my current home property) is still my favorite, I enjoyed both of them.

 

[ELMC]

If you are not planning to stay at VB, then IMO, there are mostly cons:

Pros:

Lower buy-in

Cons:

Higher dues than the other DVC resorts. Will eat up the lower buy-in cost relatively soon.

Lower Resale value

You can only reserve a WDW DVC resort at the 7 month window. Depending on when you travel, the villa size and view, your choices may come down to SSR or OKW, or a split stay or maybe even none at all (you should be able to find something somewhere if you book right at 7 months, though).

It's possible that a bad storm could destroy VB. DVC could decide not to rebuild. While you may receive some benefit from insurance, you would be out of the Club.

DVC could decide to sell VB (not likely, but possible). If so, you could only stay at VB.

If you really only want to stay at WDW, consider a resale for SSR or one of the other DVC resorts located there. Dues will be lower and you can book at 11 months. I don't believe the prices for those two are that much higher than VB.

THIS! Plus the fact that based on historical increases, dues at VB could conceivably surpass the cost of renting points in as soon as 8 years. Once you cross over that mark, your contract becomes close to worthless as non committal renting becomes a more financially viable option.

To the OP, every few months someone comes on here and starts a thread much like yours, thinking that they found a very inexpensive way to get onto WDW property without buying there. The responses are typically the same, a lot of posters with a lot of reasons not to do it. I would consider their advice before making your decision.

Finally, please don't feel rushed or pressured by this process. By Florida law you have 10 days from the time you sign the contracts to back out of a timeshare purchase with no financial penalty. Good luck!

 

[Dean]

I need some advice and fast, I am currently bidding on a Vero Beach resale and I am purchasing Vero Beach but do not plan on staying at Vero Beach but using my points to Stay at DVC resorts at WDW? What is your opinion: Pro's and Con's !! Thanks

It's a poor choice of WDW is your only desire. Not cheap enough to make it worth the risk and negatives, higher dues and NO 11 month window which means you might get shut out. SSR or OKW extended are likely the best values just to get points, OKW 2042 expiration will be the cheapest option generally. However, occasionally you find a contract (ebay or privately) that's cheaper from a different options like BWV. Several of the options have a built in savings options as well (AKV value villas, BWV, AKV & BLT standard view).

 

[AllieV]

Plus the fact that based on historical increases, dues at VB could conceivably surpass the cost of renting points in as soon as 8 years. Once you cross over that mark, your contract becomes close to worthless as non committal renting becomes a more financially viable option.

Oy, shiny lure, must take bait . . .

Maybe my Made in China calculator is failing me (I wouldn't doubt it), but dues increase from 2005 to present averages 5.5% a year (it would bring us to 7.08 instead of 7.12 but it's close), or a total of 46.2%. At the rate of increasing 5.5% per year from here on out, it would take 12 years before the dues go over $13. I'm using David's DVC price as market since it's the most available. (Finding bargains is possible, but not easy. They disappear faster than honeybees at a bear picnic.) I'm assuming David's will cost more than $13 pp a dozen years from now. In fact, I bet it will be $6 higher pp in 12 years, making it the same $6 apart from VB dues as it is now.

That said, I'm not advocating buying into VB lightly. Know what your risks are and be prepared for them.

EDIT: here's the chart I used, found somewhere on here or another board:

2012: $7.12 per point
2011: $6.78 per point
2010: $6.61 per point
2009: $6.41 per point
2008: $6.04 per point
2007: $5.63 per point
2006 $5.27 per point
2005: $4.87 per point

 

[DougEMG]

I need some advice and fast, I am currently bidding on a Vero Beach resale and I am purchasing Vero Beach but do not plan on staying at Vero Beach but using my points to Stay at DVC resorts at WDW? What is your opinion: Pro's and Con's !! Thanks

VB has the highest MF, but also has the highest compounded annual increase in MF. That compounding in the long run is going to kill you. If you bought SSr or OKW at a good price, after 6-8 years you are better off with your SSR/OKW contract.

Short term gain, long term pain.

 

[Dean]

Oy, shiny lure, must take bait . . .

Maybe my Made in China calculator is failing me (I wouldn't doubt it), but dues increase from 2005 to present averages 5.5% a year (it would bring us to 7.08 instead of 7.12 but it's close), or a total of 46.2%. At the rate of increasing 5.5% per year from here on out, it would take 12 years before the dues go over $13. I'm using David's DVC price as market since it's the most available. (Finding bargains is possible, but not easy. They disappear faster than honeybees at a bear picnic.) I'm assuming David's will cost more than $13 pp a dozen years from now. In fact, I bet it will be $6 higher pp in 12 years, making it the same $6 apart from VB dues as it is now.

That said, I'm not advocating buying into VB lightly. Know what your risks are and be prepared for them.

EDIT: here's the chart I used, found somewhere on here or another board:

2012: $7.12 per point
2011: $6.78 per point
2010: $6.61 per point
2009: $6.41 per point
2008: $6.04 per point
2007: $5.63 per point
2006 $5.27 per point
2005: $4.87 per point

While I think $13 a point is doable right now, there are risks and costs associated, plus income taxes due on the proceeds above costs. Plus VB has the highest risk of damage from natural disaster and the highest risk of being excluded from the club, both small but real.

 

[ELMC]

Oy, shiny lure, must take bait . . .

Maybe my Made in China calculator is failing me (I wouldn't doubt it), but dues increase from 2005 to present averages 5.5% a year (it would bring us to 7.08 instead of 7.12 but it's close), or a total of 46.2%. At the rate of increasing 5.5% per year from here on out, it would take 12 years before the dues go over $13. I'm using David's DVC price as market since it's the most available. (Finding bargains is possible, but not easy. They disappear faster than honeybees at a bear picnic.) I'm assuming David's will cost more than $13 pp a dozen years from now. In fact, I bet it will be $6 higher pp in 12 years, making it the same $6 apart from VB dues as it is now.

That said, I'm not advocating buying into VB lightly. Know what your risks are and be prepared for them.

EDIT: here's the chart I used, found somewhere on here or another board:

2012: $7.12 per point
2011: $6.78 per point
2010: $6.61 per point
2009: $6.41 per point
2008: $6.04 per point
2007: $5.63 per point
2006 $5.27 per point
2005: $4.87 per point

In both our opinions we are only projecting based on past numbers and theory of what will happen, so I agree it is hard to predict. However, my logic is that maintenance fees are determined by Disney and have historically risen faster than inflation. Point rental prices, however, are controlled by free market forces and therefore don't have as many external influences as Disney controlled prices. A parallel example is the price of direct points vs. the price of resale points. They are clearly not following the same trajectory. Furthermore, maintenance fee prices are compounding. You are pretty much guaranteed an increase year to year, and those increases are based on a number that is already large and getting larger by the year. Rental prices don't follow this formula.

For what it's worth, the math behind my example is that VB maintenance fees could conceivably be in the $11 per point range in 8 years. My understanding is that point rental prices have remained somewhat fixed over the past 4-5 years, so I am projecting a slower increase. I wouldn't be surprised if private rental prices were around the $11-13 per point range 8 years from now. So I don't think that 8 years is the best estimate for a crossover point, but I do think it is likely. My best estimate is that it would be somewhere around year 12, which still potentially leaves VB owners 18 years of maintenance fees that they cannot recoup the cost of through renting. That's also the motivation for my statement a couple months back where I said that if there were ever to be a DVC timeshare on eBay for a dollar, it would be VB.

 

[permavac]

Lots of good information here OP and I don't think anything was missed. I have to say, as someone who did consider VB and passed on it, I see it being a very difficult decision. The low initial buy-in is quite tantalizing. The higher maintenance fees are off-putting. Sorry - I don't have any more advice than that to give

Terri

 

[dunnhorn]

Personally, I would say to go for the cheapest BLT contract you can get. Why? Because you will ALWAYS be able to rent BLT points if you need the dough. Always. BLT will have the lowest maint fees of any property - there is no front desk, no employees - very low maintenance.

Once GF goes live, they are going to start those at $160 a point, and it will gradually increase to $180 point. When Poly comes on board, that will be $200 a point - mark my words on that one.

If you don't want to go for BLT, I would say to go for one of the longer OKW contracts with the extension. OKW would also have low maint fees- but you won't be able to rent those out in a pinch.

At the end of the day, the maint fees is where the real money will be. VB has a lower contract term - I just wouldn't go there.

HTH

 

[mjc2003]

At the rate of increasing 5.5% per year from here on out, it would take 12 years before the dues go over $13.

For what it's worth, the math behind my example is that VB maintenance fees could conceivably be in the $11 per point range in 8 years. My understanding is that point rental prices have remained somewhat fixed over the past 4-5 years, so I am projecting a slower increase. I wouldn't be surprised if private rental prices were around the $11-13 per point range 8 years from now. So I don't think that 8 years is the best estimate for a crossover point, but I do think it is likely. My best estimate is that it would be somewhere around year 12, which still potentially leaves VB owners 18 years of maintenance fees that they cannot recoup the cost of through renting. That's also the motivation for my statement a couple months back where I said that if there were ever to be a DVC timeshare on eBay for a dollar, it would be VB.

Whether or not the crossover point is in 6 years, 8 years, 12 years or something in between, the point is that there will be a crossover and it will be much sooner than the other DVC properties. So unless one has a specific interest in regularly visiting VB during specific times when booking without owning would be difficult, buying VB is really not a prudent purchase.

 

[ELMC]

With all due respect, I disagree with just about everything you said in your post, and I seriously question where you are getting your information from.

Personally, I would say to go for the cheapest BLT contract you can get. Why? Because you will ALWAYS be able to rent BLT points if you need the dough. Always. BLT will have the lowest maint fees of any property - there is no front desk, no employees - very low maintenance.

BLT is the most expensive on property DVC resort. So even if the maintenance fees are lower, the entry cost is so high that it will take years to balance out the cost of buying at, say SSR. Also, I would be careful of making absolute statements such as "you will ALWAYS be able to rent BLT poitns..." I'm not so sure I would give advice saying that anyone can always do anything. You simply never know. Finally, I don't think there's enough of a track record for you to make an accurate prediction that BLT will have the lowest maintenance fees. There have been many reports on here that in its 4th year, BLT is already experiencing higher than expected wear and tear. The 8% increase in maintenance fees for 2012 would seem to support that. If anything, historical figures suggest that over time SSR will have the lowest maintenance fees.

Once GF goes live, they are going to start those at $160 a point, and it will gradually increase to $180 point. When Poly comes on board, that will be $200 a point - mark my words on that one.

As far as I know there has been no pricing information released for GF. I also wasn't aware that DVD announced DVC units at the Poly. I believe that it is misleading to present your opinions as facts as you have done here.

If you don't want to go for BLT, I would say to go for one of the longer OKW contracts with the extension. OKW would also have low maint fees- but you won't be able to rent those out in a pinch.

This is simply not true. Once you are at the 7 month mark, all points rent the same for all resorts. I have never heard of anyone not being able to rent points out at the 7 month mark. BLT points might be able to fetch a higher price for those looking to take advantage of the 11 month window, but once you hit the 7 month window, there is no difference between OKW points and BLT points.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

I do think one can command a higher rental price for BLT especially with the latest direct point price increase. As for the dues, I look for them to settle in on average with most of the onsite resorts.

I would stay far away from purchasing VB other than to use there.

 

[dunnhorn]

You don't have to agree with me... I'm giving my opinion based on my personal experience, conversations, knowledge and things I have read/seen/heard and again - experienced.

We own at SSR, BLT, BWV, HHI and VWL. Do you own at BLT? If not, then how can you say anything about what it is like to own at BLT? I am constantly receiving emails asking for me to cover BLT vacation requests at 8-11 months out. I am also constantly turning them down. BLT points can fetch $11 - 13 a point, where it can be difficult to get that for SSR. I have even heard of higher point rentals for BLT, especially when the theme park reservation has already been secured. I have NEVER been solicited about renting my SSR points greater than 7 months out. I was talking with one of the DVC guides (after we had bought - it was a casual conversation on DVC theory) and he made the unsolicited statement that in his opinion SSR is the worst place to own because there is absolutely no benefit with home resort priority, and with the size of the property and number of pools the dues will not be the lowest. True - we have been able to book treehouses pretty much 2 months out, even though we own there. The guide also told us (again, in casual conversation about BLT) that over time BLT would have the lowest increases and he was so convinced that he sold his SSR points and bought BLT. He could be lying, of course.

But then again, this is my opinion as an owner of BLT and SSR (and HHI, BWV and VWL) and as someone who has rented out points.

We also talked about GFV points. I asked him about $160/point. He said that they are about to raise the prices on BLT and AKV points AGAIN and BLT will be around $160/point. Once they sell out on BLT he looked at me and said "as for GFV 'the sky is the limit.'" If history proves true, then GF will come out of the gate at a higher price point than BLT last sold. So I think $175/$180 is certainly reasonable once BLT sells out.

You may say I'm misleading by talking about poly DVC. Rumors are rumors, but the rumor boards are extremely hot on the "staking out" of potential DVC building space on poly literally as we speak. There are flags out there now. It has been rumored for years that Disney is going to demo Poly because of various problems with the GCH, the sinking pool, etc. If anything is demolished, you can bet that they will rebuild with DVC. It's a win-win for Disney. DVD puts down $$ for the construction, and builds and Disney reserves 20% out to rent the rooms for ridiculously high prices. All the while, the points are sold, the units are full and people are flocking to spend their dollars buying tickets, food, and shirts on Main street. If DVC Poly is on the drawing board (again - I asked my guide and he did NOT deny it.. he said "it sounds like you are savvy to DVD plans") he also confirmed that $200 a point would not be out of the realm of expectation, if GFV sold well. And if that is the case... then having an ownership interest in a monorail resort in the low '90s doesn't seem to be nearly as bad a deal as you are making out.

This is from a DVC guide who has worked for Disney for 20++ years. Again, not promising anything, not quoting anything, but not denying anything. He made the statement that Disney loves DVC because it guarantees repeat business and purchases of bread-and-butter items like I mentioned above: tickets, food, souveniers - and this is where Disney makes a ton of money off DVC'ers.

Again, DVD would never even hint at Poly DVC until well after GF sales are under way. Right now, DVD is actively selling BLT, AKV and Aulani. Supposedly Aulani sales are going VERY well on the west coast and BLT is on the verge of selling out - I believe they are projecting 6 months. It has to sweep out AKV or come close to sellout before it starts the presales on GFC.

I'm just passing this on as my opinion. You may not agree with me, you may not like what I am saying - you may think my opinion and speculation is misleading. I AM stating that this is my own opinion based on knowledge, experience and long ownership in multiple DVC resorts and this opinion represents another perspective that should at the very least be considered by someone mulling over a resale purchase. I've bought resale, I've gotten great deals resale; I've been burned buying resale - I've bought from DVD, and I have gotten what I thought was a great deal and I have gotten what I thought was a "not so great" deal. Again, I'm passing on my thoughts and experience FWIW. You don't have to agree or even like what I'm saying.

 

[AllieV]

Whether or not the crossover point is in 6 years, 8 years, 12 years or something in between, the point is that there will be a crossover and it will be much sooner than the other DVC properties. So unless one has a specific interest in regularly visiting VB during specific times when booking without owning would be difficult, buying VB is really not a prudent purchase.

I'm a little confused as to why people keep referring to a crossover. What makes anyone think that rental prices are frozen for the next dozen years? They have increased steadily -- I've seen it. David's was around $9 five or six years ago (?). Now it's at $13. Seems it averages 50cents per year. Personal rentals keep pace. So when VB dues [presumably] reaches the current rental prices, the rental prices will be much higher. I don't see a "crossover" where maint dues will surpass rental prices. But what do I know. What do we all know, really?

 

[ELMC]

I'm a little confused as to why people keep referring to a crossover. What makes anyone think that rental prices are frozen for the next dozen years? They have increased steadily -- I've seen it. David's was around $9 five or six years ago (?). Now it's at $13. Seems it averages 50cents per year. Personal rentals keep pace. So when VB dues [presumably] reaches the current rental prices, the rental prices will be much higher. I don't see a "crossover" where maint dues will surpass rental prices. But what do I know. What do we all know, really?

The crossover will happen because MF increases are compounding and rental price increases aren't. But you're right, we don't "know" anything, best we can do is speculate.

 

[ELMC]

Do you own at BLT?

Yes.

This is from a DVC guide who has worked for Disney for 20++ years.

I see. I guess it all comes down to how much people believe anything their salesperson tells them.

I'm just passing this on as my opinion.

Thank you for saying that, because you didn't in your previous post where you presented your opinions as facts.

 

[DougEMG]

Personally, I would say to go for the cheapest BLT contract you can get. Why? Because you will ALWAYS be able to rent BLT points if you need the dough. Always. BLT will have the lowest maint fees of any property - there is no front desk, no employees - very low maintenance.

I'm just waiting for the price of BLT resales to drop once VGF and the Poly come on line.