Buy a contract to pay dues?

Although I have never rented out my points (we are actually always borrowing from future years) it is nice to know that the option exists should the need arise in the future.

The ability to rent has probably kept some people from having to sell during these hard economic times.

I know that there are some people that abuse the system but it would be a shame if Disney did away with the ability to rent all together.
 
Although I have never rented out my points (we are actually always borrowing from future years) it is nice to know that the option exists should the need arise in the future.

The ability to rent has probably kept some people from having to sell during these hard economic times.

I know that there are some people that abuse the system but it would be a shame if Disney did away with the ability to rent all together.

Disney doesn't care if owners have to sell because someone else has to buy. The reality is that renting doesn't make Disney any money and they are a business.

:earsboy: Bill
 
Disney doesn't care if owners have to sell because someone else has to buy. The reality is that renting doesn't make Disney any money and they are a business.

:earsboy: Bill

Disney doesn't HAVE to do anything, but if I do in fact OWN points in the system, isn't it my right to allow a guest to use it? Since the $ transactions are on the side, unless someone is consistently making reservations and not using it themselves, can they assume renting.

I am confused though as to how they can increase their cash reservations if renting was cut down. I get that rooms would be available, but I thought that cash inventory was completely separate from points inventory. I have seen no availability online, but reserving a night on cash was possible. What is to prevent Disney at the 6 month mark from selling all the rooms on cash and leaving none for points reservations?

I think if Disney was really wanting to end all rentals, and make a profit from it, they could set up their own rental system for members where they take a cut. Kind of like MLB and NFL do with event ticket resales. They were cracking down on Stub hub until stub hub became an official sponsor. Some teams even have ticket resales for season ticket holders on their sites where the team gets a cut. I mean, they could take David's rentals right out from under him if they so desired. It would be a lot easier for them do what he does, and they could probably swing a bigger profit than him.
 
....I am confused though as to how they can increase their cash reservations if renting was cut down. I get that rooms would be available, but I thought that cash inventory was completely separate from points inventory. ....

Rooms that are not reserved at 60 days out are turned over to Disney Reservation Center to sell for cash. This is returned to DVC (less a fee). So if a member doesn't reserve the villa and it goes unreserved, it can be sold for cash.
 

Doesn't appear anyone has actually answered your question (but there are several opinions on worth of the idea, LOL).

Reports from a few years ago, suggest that 20 or more reservations per year triggers some type of "audit" to determine if commercial renting is going on. I recall several members did receive letters to this point.

Truthfully, Disney has not defined "commercial" in any of the Position Offering Statements (POS). Many of us suspect that was not an omission. They certainly can make (and have made) rule changes that negatively impacted the ease of renting. No one here knows what Disney may do in the future regarding renting. The online booking system has made it easier to check availability.

My personal opinion is that renting to cover dues is risky and more of a hassle than I care to take on. Others have an opposite opinion.

Note that many who post here oppose renting of any kind. However, it is expressly allowed by the POS, as long as Disney doesn't think it is being done "commercially".
 
I don't think that Disney will eliminate all renting but they may change the rules to decrease the number of rentals. Guests of owners are currently entitled to certain DVC perks while renters are not.

A couple of years ago I was told by a Disney employee that "you don't take money from the mouse".

Disney changed the resale benefits to increase direct sales, I can see them changing the renting policy to do the same.

I would hate to have someone buy points to use for renting and later have the rules change causing them to sell. A mass sell off would cause the resale prices to drop and ultimately hurt everyone.

:earsboy: Bill
 
I don't think that Disney will eliminate all renting but they may change the rules to decrease the number of rentals. Guests of owners are currently entitled to certain DVC perks while renters are not.

A couple of years ago I was told by a Disney employee that "you don't take money from the mouse".

Disney changed the resale benefits to increase direct sales, I can see them changing the renting policy to do the same.

I would hate to have someone buy points to use for renting and later have the rules change causing them to sell. A mass sell off would cause the resale prices to drop and ultimately hurt everyone.

:earsboy: Bill

It would be very easy to identify KTTW of guests at a DVC resort on points that does not include the member. If the member is on the reservation, you get one notation. If the member isn't on the reservation, you get another. Kind of like the blue KTTW and the gold KTTW.
 
Rooms that are not reserved at 60 days out are turned over to Disney Reservation Center to sell for cash. This is returned to DVC (less a fee). So if a member doesn't reserve the villa and it goes unreserved, it can be sold for cash.

Thank you. That makes sense to me. I guess that is why SSR is usually the resort you see on the internet ads at 30% all the time, because there seems to availability there on short notice most of the time. What is the typical availability of the other resorts on average around the 60 day mark?

I am not opposed to renting/renters. I was introduced to DVC by renting. I never would have stopped at those kiosks beforehand. I think renting is a very good option for those that tire of disney trips and want to take time off, have some down financial times, or just people who want to share the magic. I think commercial renting does have a slippery slope. I have heard the phrase "you don't take money from the mouse" before, and I've also heard CM say they work for the mouse, and they don't want to vacation with him! HA HA
 
Who says Disney doesn’t get any money from DVC renters? They might not directly get the rental money, but so what? My family just returned from a rented visit at Old Key West. When I checked out, I had north of $1100 on my tab from spending around Disney property. That didn’t include a week’s worth of park tickets for 3 adults and 2 children (plus one infant who got in free). I spent a few bucks on my credit card, too. My family is too large for a regular hotel room, and could not afford the vacation at Disney’s rack rates. In other words, we were only there because DVC renting was available. And on account of that, Disney got another few thousand dollars from my family (I haven’t tallied it all up, but that is ballpark). Technically, we could have stayed off-site, and perhaps some hotels would be large enough, but staying on Disney property is one of the things that we loved and will be bringing us back. And of course, Disney wouldn't have gotten anything directly from me staying offsite either, nor would I have encountered the lovely young lady at the DVC desk in the lobby.

And speaking of that, we were so impressed and delighted with our stay at OKW, that we went to the DVC open house. And we liked that so much, that we are in the process of buying our own piece of the mouse. Yes, it is on resale, so you could say that Disney is not getting any money directly from that purchase. But again, they are building a lifetime revenue stream of family visits that we would never have made if we could not stay at DVC villas. Disney is getting all that money. And even when my DVC contract runs out in 42 years, I have four children who are being indoctrinated in the mouse, who may well in turn continue the legacy with their families (a pretty explicit intention of Disney’s DVC program). And by the way, I would not have bought into DVC if I didn’t have the opportunity to rent out points in cases where my family is unable to take a trip for some reason. I’m not doing this to start a business or as a retirement investment. But I do run the numbers on any purchase as substantial as this, and the ability to recoup some money in years where points would otherwise go unused was an essential part of my decision.

And none of this happens if we weren’t able to rent a DVC villa. I seriously doubt I am alone. So sure, could Disney try to be more heavy-handed and police DVC rentals? I guess they could. But it would be mighty short-sighted. I think stamping out truly commercial renting entities that have no intention of staying at Disney and are impacting the market makes sense. At a minimum, reserving the right to do so if the need should arise. But to prevent someone from renting out their 250 points every few years, to someone who can afford to drop a few thousand dollars at Disney gets to go, rather than having empty rooms? Doesn’t make much business sense to me.
 
Who says Disney doesn’t get any money from DVC renters? They might not directly get the rental money, but so what? My family just returned from a rented visit at Old Key West. When I checked out, I had north of $1100 on my tab from spending around Disney property.

The issue is that the points that you used with your rental have to be used by the owner or a renter or they are forfeited. If Disney shut off all rentals some how, and I don't think that they would, someone would still be spending money at Disney for food, tickets and Disney extras.

If you didn't rent, where would you stay?

:earsboy: Bill
 
I would not have stayed at Disney. So they would have lost my family. Maybe the person I rented from would have used their points. Or maybe they could not have. Disney would be making a shortsighted mistake, IMO, if they were to cut off rentals, thinking they might somehow force people to pay to stay at one of their hotels. I think the idea of Disney inserting themselves into he process to take a piece of the action is much smarter thinking, and much more likely.
 
I would not have stayed at Disney. So they would have lost my family. Maybe the person I rented from would have used their points. Or maybe they could not have. Disney would be making a shortsighted mistake, IMO, if they were to cut off rentals, thinking they might somehow force people to pay to stay at one of their hotels. I think the idea of Disney inserting themselves into he process to take a piece of the action is much smarter thinking, and much more likely.

So you wouldn't have gone to WDW at all without this rental?
 
So you wouldn't have gone to WDW at all without this rental?

Right, I don't think so. There is no way we could do a regular hotel room. I was doubtful about being able to make this trip, but then I stumbled on the DVC resort rentals when I did some research, and that was what made me realize we could really make this trip happen. Anyway, I certainly don't want to make this thread about me, but my experience in part explains why I don't think Disney would be wise to cut off villa renting.

I do think they would be wise to find some way to make direct DVC purchase more appealing, as compared to renting or buying resale. It is just a huge financial difference, and about all they are doing is letting you use your points in some other, less attractive additional ways. It would be a bad idea for them to keep scaling back on current resale benefits, IMO, or try to eliminate renting. But I think they should figure out benefits they can add to direct purchase that would make it more attractive. It doesn't have to be costly. Sometime a "status" benefit goes pretty far.
 
Renting isn't for everyone, it does take some work and a business sense. There can be legal issues and problems with the renter just like there can be owners who rent and don't know what they are doing.

I expect that we will see a rule change about renting in the future.

:earsboy: Bill

Why do you say that? Is it a supposition on your part, hearsay, or did you hear this from a cast member. I've been renting my points out for years. I've had no issues with Disney in the past and I don't anticipate any in the future.

It's those folks who rent their points out on eBay consistently and routinely and who rent out multi thousands of points per year. Those are the people Disney and Disney Vacation Club targeted in that ultimatum. Not a guy who is renting out 200 points per year!
 
I hope Disney gets it's act together and enforces the rules on commercial renting. Sorry but there is no way the brokers are not commercial renters


It is in Disney's best interest to cut down on renting. They make nothing from it. And if you decide to go into renting remember they hold ALL the power and will change the rules to protect them not you
 
I hope Disney gets it's act together and enforces the rules on commercial renting. Sorry but there is no way the brokers are not commercial renters


It is in Disney's best interest to cut down on renting. They make nothing from it. And if you decide to go into renting remember they hold ALL the power and will change the rules to protect them not you
The problem for Disney is that the POS specifically allows renting as well as having an exclusion for commercial renting with a TBA definition. Thus, IMO, they do not hold all the cards. They could act at heh 600# gorilla if they wanted but there's a good chance they'd lose any challenge for a member who's below the current definition they've listed. Disney doesn't like to be in a position to lose such challenges. Both legally and practically, "profit" won't be a determining factor even though some would like to think it would. Also, while the POS discusses that one should not buy with expectations to rent and should buy for personal use, this clause is related to expectation, not exclusion and is there because FL law requires it. The history behind it is that in times past timeshare sales people would tout buying to rent or resell for profit, they are not allowed to do so in FL legally.
 
Why do you say that? Is it a supposition on your part, hearsay, or did you hear this from a cast member. I've been renting my points out for years. I've had no issues with Disney in the past and I don't anticipate any in the future.

It's those folks who rent their points out on eBay consistently and routinely and who rent out multi thousands of points per year. Those are the people Disney and Disney Vacation Club targeted in that ultimatum. Not a guy who is renting out 200 points per year!

Please see post #17.

:earsboy: Bill
 
The problem for Disney is that the POS specifically allows renting as well as having an exclusion for commercial renting with a TBA definition. Thus, IMO, they do not hold all the cards. They could act at heh 600# gorilla if they wanted but there's a good chance they'd lose any challenge for a member who's below the current definition they've listed. Disney doesn't like to be in a position to lose such challenges. Both legally and practically, "profit" won't be a determining factor even though some would like to think it would. Also, while the POS discusses that one should not buy with expectations to rent and should buy for personal use, this clause is related to expectation, not exclusion and is there because FL law requires it. The history behind it is that in times past timeshare sales people would tout buying to rent or resell for profit, they are not allowed to do so in FL legally.

Don't count on it. Next step. Define commercial. And it will be VERY narrow. And have Reedy Creek pass new local regulations. That is legal and they can say "only x is allowed". Happens all over Florida. My father's home for example cannot be rented for anything less then 6 months

They are already stalking the brokers.
 
http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=46249354&postcount=17

Just because you've said it twice doesn't mean it's true. The fact is I have been renting points for 15 years now with no ramifications. I don't think Disney is going to go back on their original prospectus. They've got bigger problems than low point renters. If they did have a problem companies like David's would be out of business.

My source tells me it is a matter of time for companies like David's. He "claims" legal is working on it. No idea if he actually knows what he is talking about
 

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