Bush's "conversation" w/troops staged

[What the Heck]

Sometimes impeachment is the proper course. That's why the Founding Fathers put that mechanism in the Constitution. Getting "lewinskied" in the Oval office was not what the Founding Fathers thought of when they did.

No, but perjury and conspiracy was - which is what was done (not an abuse of power as some would like to think). Incompetance, which appears to be the major complaint against George Bush (and he does come off that way many times) is not.

 

[Frank Cross]

I have read every stinking one of these comments and though I know better I've got to something to say. NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON HERE KNOWS THE WHOLE TRUTH ABOUT IRAQ UNLESS YOU HAVE BEEN THERE. You've all have been fed propaganda according to whatever sources you read or watch according to your party lines. Recongize it and do some research. If you all really care about what is going on find the nearest military installation near you and sit and talk with those soldiers. Ask them how they feel about the President and the Iraq war. Ask them how it feel to be deployed 3 out of 4 years. There is plenty of blame to be spread along all party lines and out into our communities. If we don't like how our gov't is going, then it is our duty and right to speak up. You all have senators and other congress people to write. Trust me, my people hear from me on a regular basis and I even got a stinking card after my dh left for this deployment.
Please all I ask is quit the speculating from both sides because it doesn't do anyone any good; especially families like myself who is going through yet another deployment. Obviously some of the military, including my dh, would be jumping ship if they could. Even if that means waiting out the stoploss BUT does anyone know that retention in the actual army is as high as it's always been. Tonight and for the next 300+ days I'm going to be praying that some jackcrack doesn't blow my dh up and all you all can do is sit and bicker. Please go out and help; make a difference in someone's life.

I don't see how we are speculating. I am rather well read from both sides of the aisle. Clearly and rightfully, you are upset and my heart goes out to you. As you said if you don't like what the gov't is doing then it is our right to speak up. This is just one small example of that right, here on the DIS. But it's not limited to this forum at least not for myself. I'd be interested to hear what you have to say regarding your comment that "obviously some of the military, including my dh, would be jumping ship if they could". What does your husband think of the situation in Iraq? Why does he want to "jump ship"?

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

Numbers please.



I don't believe this is limited to any geographic region, but if you were to ask the people in Louisanna, Mississippi and Florida I think they would dispute your question mark. You can fill in the blanks regarding the war, economy, energy prices, health insurance, the environment and Homeland security. But hey if you think bush is doing a crackerjack job friend, then God bless ya.

Do you think the hurricane is the President's fault??

The war -- liberated 25,000,000 + Iraqi's and making steady progress with a new democratic nation while fighting terrorists dogs.

Economy -- steady and growing.

Health insurance -- improved.

Environment -- this country does a great job.

Homeland security -- no terrorist attacks since 9-11.

Yes, God Bless our President and our troops and allies.

 

[septbride2002]

I have done that.

All politicians do that. It is coming from both sides, from the far right and the far left. However, the difference from what I can see is those on the moderate right realize that President Bush will not be re-elected in 2008, those from the far left dont' seem to have caught on. They are still trying to win the 2004 elections, with the same tactics they used then. Like the guy in the joke who wants to "double or nothing" his bet that he lost on the original play when instant replay comes around, except this is real life.

I get that - he is elected and there is nothing we can do about it. But I have to shake my head and think, "Then why did the Republicans go after Bill Clinton in his 2nd term?"

Again let me make this clear - I EXPECT BETTER FROM ALL POLITICIANS. I think that is the problem with our Government, the American people have enabled the government to treat them this way. Intead of remembering it is OUR Government - it has become Their Government.

~Amanda

 

[Frank Cross]

No, but perjury and conspiracy was - which is what was done (not an abuse of power as some would like to think). Incompetance, which appears to be the major complaint against George Bush (and he does come off that way many times) is not.

Sorry you're wrong on this:

On December 19, 1998, the House passed two out of four articles of impeachment against Clinton. Article One, charging that he committed perjury before the grand jury, passed 228 to 206. Article Two, perjury in the Paula Jones civil case, was defeated, 229 to 205. Article Three, obstruction of justice, passed 221 to 212, and Article Four, abuse of power, was defeated, 285 to 148.

No conspiracy.

 

[Frank Cross]

Do you think the hurricane is the President's fault??

The war -- liberated 25,000,000 + Iraqi's and making steady progress with a new democratic nation while fighting terrorists dogs.

Economy -- steady and growing.

Health insurance -- improved.

Environment -- this country does a great job.

Homeland security -- no terrorist attacks since 9-11.

Yes, God Bless our President and our troops and allies.

Sure Joe. Next time you want to wade in to a debate make sure you bring along a few stats or articles or or or anything really anything at all.

 

[What the Heck]

Nobody is. I expect the President to have exceptional leadership qualities. He's not the manager of a fast food restaurant. Bush has fumbled his way through this presidency without taking any responsibility whatsoever. Always ther other guys fault. That is not a leader. If you think this country is in good shape because of the current administration, then go ahead and keep on drinking what you're drinking. Please pass the bottle friend. It must be good stuff.

No, I don't think the country is in good shape because of the current administration, but I do think it is 100 times better than if Gore had been elected in 2000 or Kerry in 2004. I didn't vote for Bush because he was a Republican, I voted for him because the "best" the Democrats had to offer scared the hell out of me. It's got nothing to do with what I'm drinking (actaully, sweet tea right now - with a touch of lemon).

Like what?

Current board rules do not allow for that discusion.

Sounds like you're scared of Hillary. Do you have anything to back up your claim of 47%. What is your reasoning re: "never win the moderates"?

I'm not scared of Hillary, she would guarantee a Republican victory in 2008. I would be highly disappointed if she was nominated, because it would be a concession by the Democrats that they don't want to win the Presidency for a long time.

Do I have anything to back up my "47%" claim? Nothing substantial, it's just what I believe. She has spent the last year attempting to come down more moderate and to back away from her previous years spent as a far left liberal. And, she has spent too much time in those previous years using an extremely wide brush to paint all Republicans with. The moderates don't drink anyone's kool-aid - and they don't like being brushed with the "slime" brush just because it is convenient and it makes her more popular with the far left group she happens to be speaking to. She would be able to get quite a few moderate Democrats, but, unless the Republicans come up with a complete flop, I don't see her getting any Republican moderates. At best, she would end up losing like Al Gore in 2000; at worst, if the Republicans hit a homerun, she would lose like Walter Mondale.

This started with the impeachment of President Clinton. An interesting abuse of power by the Republicans. I'm very curious as to how the midterms play out considering the current situation regarding Bush, Delay, Frist, Rove, Gas prices, Katrina and Iraq. The Republicans aren't really positioning themselves for a victory in 13 months. Don't think for one second that the Democrats won't impeach Bush given the same playing field the Republicans had with Clinton. I'm not saying it will happen, I'm saying the table is being set by this administrations incompetence.

I'm willing to bet the Republicans gain at least 10 seats in the House and 2 seats in the Senate.

It is heartening to see you admit that it was Clinton and his supporters who began the polarization with the claims that it was "only sex".
(now watch the flames start - just joking)

 

[lovemygoofy]

I don't see how we are speculating. I am rather well read from both sides of the aisle. Clearly and rightfully, you are upset and my heart goes out to you. As you said if you don't like what the gov't is doing then it is our right to speak up. This is just one small example of that right, here on the DIS. But it's not limited to this forum at least not for myself. I'd be interested to hear what you have to say regarding your comment that "obviously some of the military, including my dh, would be jumping ship if they could". What does your husband think of the situation in Iraq? Why does he want to "jump ship"?

First let me apologize, I was having some bad moments when I threw all that out there. Second I need to go edit because I realize what I wrote.

My dh isn't jumping ship or whatever we do in the army. Actually he is going to reenlinst for 4 + years. We are already at 8.5 and thinks he has more work to be done. Personally my dh is conflicted because he was there at the buildup in 2003 when the soldiers were sent for a completely differerent reason. He stayed a year. Now he is back for another year but now it is to build back up a country that we blew to smithereens. Yes many soldiers on the ground are training Iraqi police and army but many others are building schools, hopsitals, playgrounds, installings septic systems, showing advance in medical treatment and the list goes on and on. He believes in what he is doing for this country because we should never leave a country in shambles from our own making BUT to be misled(my word not his) and have to spend a year away from our home is not protecting our country(his words).

I get aggravated at the comments of people because no one knows the whole truth. For example(and I'm not ragging on anyone) someone mentioned an article about troops not getting the body armor they need. What many don't know is that more specialized body armor is coming including the new uparmored vehicles. The old body armor is being distributed to the Iraqis and I know this because I packed my dh's pags with his old stuff and saw him leave wearing the new stuff. Everything is an interpretation and all needs to be taken with a tub of salt.

 

[What the Heck]

Sorry you're wrong on this:

On December 19, 1998, the House passed two out of four articles of impeachment against Clinton. Article One, charging that he committed perjury before the grand jury, passed 228 to 206. Article Two, perjury in the Paula Jones civil case, was defeated, 229 to 205. Article Three, obstruction of justice, passed 221 to 212, and Article Four, abuse of power, was defeated, 285 to 148.

No conspiracy.

No, it only means he wasn't indicted for it, the equivalent of me saying I haven't gone over the speed limit for the last 10 years. However, perjury and obstruction, aren't those federal crimes? And aren't those crimes envisioned by the founding fathers as impeachable?

 

[MizBlu]

Sorry you're wrong on this:

On December 19, 1998, the House passed two out of four articles of impeachment against Clinton. Article One, charging that he committed perjury before the grand jury, passed 228 to 206. Article Two, perjury in the Paula Jones civil case, was defeated, 229 to 205. Article Three, obstruction of justice, passed 221 to 212, and Article Four, abuse of power, was defeated, 285 to 148.

No conspiracy.

The Constitution does not say a president can only be removed from office if he/she commits a crime. As per the Founding Fathers, a president can be impeached for "bribery, treason, high crimes, and misdemeanors."

Misdemeanors is open to interpretation.

 

[What the Heck]

Lovemygoofy, I am remiss for not having acknowledged your feelings and thoughts earlier. I hope your husband returns to you safely. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

 

[Frank Cross]

No, but perjury and conspiracy was - which is what was done (not an abuse of power as some would like to think). Incompetance, which appears to be the major complaint against George Bush (and he does come off that way many times) is not.

The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.

--U.S. Constitution, Article 2, Section 4

High crimes and misdemeanors is rather broad and was done so deliberately by the founding fathers. Conspiracy, although not specfically mentioned would certainly fall under "high crimes and misdemeanors".

 

[What the Heck]

The Constitution does not say a president can only be removed from office if he/she commits a crime. As per the Founding Fathers, a president can be impeached for "bribery, treason, high crimes, and misdemeanors."

Misdemeanors is open to interpretation.

No it's not. It is a legal term with a legal defination.

 

[septbride2002]

Do you think the hurricane is the President's fault??

The war -- liberated 25,000,000 + Iraqi's and making steady progress with a new democratic nation while fighting terrorists dogs.

Economy -- steady and growing.

Health insurance -- improved.

Environment -- this country does a great job.

Homeland security -- no terrorist attacks since 9-11.

Yes, God Bless our President and our troops and allies.

Dear Sweet Joe - how old are you? I ask this because you mentioned health insurance and I've had the pleasure of dealing with health insurance first hand recently. You see my Father is approaching that age when his body is starting to fail him. I'll remind you that my father is also a veteran of the Vietnam war. He has had 3 eye surgeries due to blood vessels behind his eyes bleeding out due to untreated diabetes. He is currently worried about losing his big toe on his right foot. His high blood pressure almost caused a heart attack and he has emphesema. Yes he should have taken better care of himself in the age where smoking was common and growing up on the good ole boy midwest diet of meat and potatoes. But he is taking the steps now to help himself. On his less then $30,000/per year job his prescriptions that run him $80-$175 per month are a big chunk of his budget. Not to mention the pile of medical bills from specialist and the surgeries that he has to pay because it isn't covered under his health insurance and he can't afford more.

So you see - I don't give a damn about health insurance over in Iraq when I have a father who can barely afford his insulin. And with the way our economy is going - the stock market not stabalizing, short term lending rates increasing, and the price of gas it is only a matter of time before he can't pay his bills and he will have to move in with us in order to save the rent money for his other bills. Can you imagine how humiliating it will be for a 55+ year old man having to move in with his daughter because he can't afford his bills?

You'll have to excuse me if the life and liberty of Iraq is not the top priority in my list. I would rather see the issues of our country addressed first. I guess I'm selfish that way.

~Amanda

 

[What the Heck]

High crimes and misdemeanors is rather broad and was done so deliberately by the founding fathers. Conspiracy, although not specfically mentioned would certainly fall under "high crimes and misdemeanors".

As would perjury and obstruction.

 

[Frank Cross]

First let me apologize, I was having some bad moments when I threw all that out there. Second I need to go edit because I realize what I wrote.

My dh isn't jumping ship or whatever we do in the army. Actually he is going to reenlinst for 4 + years. We are already at 8.5 and thinks he has more work to be done. Personally my dh is conflicted because he was there at the buildup in 2003 when the soldiers were sent for a completely differerent reason. He stayed a year. Now he is back for another year but now it is to build back up a country that we blew to smithereens. Yes many soldiers on the ground are training Iraqi police and army but many others are building schools, hopsitals, playgrounds, installings septic systems, showing advance in medical treatment and the list goes on and on. He believes in what he is doing for this country because we should never leave a country in shambles from our own making BUT to be misled(my word not his) and have to spend a year away from our home is not protecting our country(his words).

I get aggravated at the comments of people because no one knows the whole truth. For example(and I'm not ragging on anyone) someone mentioned an article about troops not getting the body armor they need. What many don't know is that more specialized body armor is coming including the new uparmored vehicles. The old body armor is being distributed to the Iraqis and I know this because I packed my dh's pags with his old stuff and saw him leave wearing the new stuff. Everything is an interpretation and all needs to be taken with a tub of salt.

I think the beef with the body armor is that it's taken too long to get it into the hands of the soilders. 4 years is a bit much.

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

Sure Joe. Next time you want to wade in to a debate make sure you bring along a few stats or articles or or or anything really anything at all.

I follow the news everyday. I'm not writing a thesis.

If you can dispute what I just posted with unbiased stats or articles -- where are they?? What part of my post do you not agree with?

Or are you still all excited about the poll number of someone who can't run for re-election?

 

[lovemygoofy]

Lovemygoofy, I am remiss for not having acknowledged your feelings and thoughts earlier. I hope your husband returns to you safely. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

Thank you very much I appreciate the sentiment. Between deployments, visting my family and PMS, I could go on forever

 

[MizBlu]

First let me apologize, I was having some bad moments when I threw all that out there. Second I need to go edit because I realize what I wrote.

My dh isn't jumping ship or whatever we do in the army. Actually he is going to reenlinst for 4 + years. We are already at 8.5 and thinks he has more work to be done. Personally my dh is conflicted because he was there at the buildup in 2003 when the soldiers were sent for a completely differerent reason. He stayed a year. Now he is back for another year but now it is to build back up a country that we blew to smithereens. Yes many soldiers on the ground are training Iraqi police and army but many others are building schools, hopsitals, playgrounds, installings septic systems, showing advance in medical treatment and the list goes on and on. He believes in what he is doing for this country because we should never leave a country in shambles from our own making BUT to be misled(my word not his) and have to spend a year away from our home is not protecting our country(his words).

I get aggravated at the comments of people because no one knows the whole truth. For example(and I'm not ragging on anyone) someone mentioned an article about troops not getting the body armor they need. What many don't know is that more specialized body armor is coming including the new uparmored vehicles. The old body armor is being distributed to the Iraqis and I know this because I packed my dh's pags with his old stuff and saw him leave wearing the new stuff. Everything is an interpretation and all needs to be taken with a tub of salt.

I'm the one who mentioned the lack of body armor and corrected that to lack of proper body armor.

I know the body armor is coming, but for crying out loud, the Pentagon spends half a trillion dollars a year and our troops aren't equpped out the wahzoo? God bless our troops who scrounged around and made what they needed. God bless the ingenuity. But, for Pete's sake, why do they even have to. The war has been going on for 2.5 years and we still don't have the proper equipment. There's something seriously wrong.

The troops are doing the best they can in a genuine cesspool of religious intolerance, tribalism, brutality, etc. I lived in the Middle East and my perspective is completely different than many here. There are conflicts going on there that we cannot comprehend because they're based on an incident that happened 1000 years ago and yet poets in the cafes tell those stories as if they happend yesterday.

This war needs leadership and not canned teleconferences. This war needs new thinking and not just someone thinking how to spin the next disaster. Somebody has to hold this administration's feet to the fire for the lack of planning and the mistakes that were committed. That's why those on my side of the aisle will never give up that fight.

 

[yeartolate]

Do you think the hurricane is the President's fault??

The war -- liberated 25,000,000 + Iraqi's and making steady progress with a new democratic nation while fighting terrorists dogs.

Economy -- steady and growing.

Health insurance -- improved.

Environment -- this country does a great job.

Homeland security -- no terrorist attacks since 9-11.

Yes, God Bless our President and our troops and allies.

The war -- liberated 25,000,000 + Iraqi's and making steady progress with a new democratic nation while fighting terrorists dogs - at the cost of 10's (100's?) of thousands of innocent Iraqi lives. Number is ever growing.

Economy -- steady and growing - you have a nation of middle income folks with high credit card debt -- oh yeah and a deficit of ... is it trillions yet?

Health insurance -- improved --

Environment -- this country does a great job. No comment.

Homeland security -- no terrorist attacks since 9-11. Yeah but we created a terrorist nation (Iraq)

Yes, God Bless our President and our troops and allies. :sunny OK, I'll buy that.