Bush won't rule out nuclear stike on Iran...

[sodaseller]

I know , I was one of many , many thousands of people walking in the streets of Montréal to protest the war. But we almost never see major protests over governement policies

There are protests here, but we do not honor our peacemakers, we deride them. Did a recent for the Diocese on that subject based on Pacem in Teris

 

[Teejay32]

Anyone seriously interested in this case beyond soundbite Foxlike reasoning should read Seymour Hersh's piece in the New Yorker two weeks ago and Fallows' piece in the Atlantic Monthly last year.

"America has many characters. We have Donald Duck and Seymour Hersh and they're approximately in the same category. And I give them the same credibility." --New Hampshire Senator Judd Gregg.

I haven't read the Fallows piece yet, will do that.

 

[lw49033]

"America has many characters. We have Donald Duck and Seymour Hersh and they're approximately in the same category. And I give them the same credibility." --New Hampshire Senator Judd Gregg.

A Bush backer deriding Seymour Hersh's credibility is like Britney Spears calling someone a slut.

 

[GoldenGate]

Me too. OMG, can the cubs win the world series this year?

Only if the 49ers win the Super Bowl

 

[GoldenGate]

Me too. OMG, can the cubs win the world series this year?

Only if the 49ers win the Super Bowl

 

[lw49033]

OK. I'll bite. Is this one of the "facts" you supposedly offer? Anything to back this up?

It's common knowledge to anyone familiar with the Miiddle East, but which point are you quibbling about? The number, that they were forced to leave, or that they were forced to leave by the Israelis?

 

[Teejay32]

A Bush backer deriding Seymour Hersh's credibility is like Britney Spears calling someone a slut.

Great rebuttal, if you're a Senator.

 

[sodaseller]

"America has many characters. We have Donald Duck and Seymour Hersh and they're approximately in the same category. And I give them the same credibility." --New Hampshire Senator Judd Gregg.

I haven't read the Fallows piece yet, will do that.

Similar quotes were issued after Hersh's expose years ago that there was torture going on at Iraqi prisons, and discontent among the brass at Franks. His pieces are deemed "inconceivable" with the same gusto that Vizzinni used the term.

And given the Administration we are dealing with, no reporting can be deemed too ridiculous to consider. Seymour has a far finer track record than anyone that defends this Administration

 

[punkin]

Common Knowledge?

I don't know it. I want a source for the numbers and the reasons for people leaving or being forced to leave. I also want a time frame. Was this in 1948 after Israel was attacked by all its Arab neighbors or more recently?

Also, this topic is completely OT for this thread. Maybe you would like to start another one titled "why Israel should be wiped off the face of the earth" See what kind of responses you get.

 

[sodaseller]

It's common knowledge to anyone familiar with the Miiddle East, but which point are you quibbling about? The number, that they were forced to leave, or that they were forced to leave by the Israelis?

If you want to have the best understanding possible of the Nabka, as I supect you think of it, might want to read Benny Morris' recent scholarship

 

[lw49033]

Great rebuttal, if you're a Senator.

Not sure what this means.

Everything Hersh says turns out to be true. Nearly everything Bush says turns out to be dubious or just plain false. Surely I don't have to be a Senator to notice the contrast?

 

[sodaseller]

FWIW, Fallows has also written some really silly pieces. He was crazy enough to write a piece in 2002 called "the Fifty-First State" predicting that it would be incredibly costly and dangerous to occupy Iraq and it woudl require years and billions and billions. Crazy liberal crap

 

[sodaseller]

Common Knowledge?

I don't know it. I want a source for the numbers and the reasons for people leaving or being forced to leave. I also want a time frame. Was this in 1948 after Israel was attacked by all its Arab neighbors or more recently?

Also, this topic is completely OT for this thread. Maybe you would like to start another one titled "why Israel should be wiped off the face of the earth" See what kind of responses you get.

Benny Morris, a reputable historian, has written about Israeli misdeeds. There are plenty (no people have an unblemished past) - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benny_Morris . I am supporter of Israel, and think mature people can truthfully discuss issue. I don't think our anti-Semite on thid thread is one of them. But Israel's history is far from clean. Heck, I now appreciate Ariel Sharon, who left a strong legacy, but he is a war criminal with a stain forever on Sabra and Chatrilla. Few humans, much less nations, can claim an unstained heritage. Ours certainly cannot. Noninfantilized electorates (which does not count the Palestinians at the moment) can discuss such matters and deal with them

 

[lw49033]

Common Knowledge?
I don't know it. I want a source for the numbers and the reasons for people leaving or being forced to leave. I also want a time frame. Was this in 1948 after Israel was attacked by all its Arab neighbors or more recently?

The ethnic cleansing of Arabs by Jews began at Deir Yassin on April 9, 1948. Menachem Begin's terrorist militia, Irgun Zvai Leumi killed at least 100 Arab civilians (or as many as 250 depending on who you listen to.) Deir Yassin sparked a panic among the Arabs, as it was intended to. This was more than a month before the Arab-Israeli war erupted with the Israeli declaration of independence. The ethnic cleansing and dynamiting of Arab villages lasted throughout 1948 and 1949.

 

[sodaseller]

edited to avoid

 

[sodaseller]

You are vastly overstating and oversimplifying what occurred. No good comes out of that brand of dishonesty, so prevalent among those that wish to push the Jews into the sea. That's the kind of infantile argument that Bush supporters engage in

 

[punkin]

Benny Morris, a reputable historian, has written about Israeli misdeds. There are lenty (no people have an unblemished past) - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benny_Morris . I am supporetr of Israel, and think mature people can truthfully discuss issue. I don't think our anti-Semite on thid thread is one of them. But Israel's history is far from clean. Heck, I now appreciate Ariel Sharon, who left a strong legacy, but he is a war criminal with a stain forever on Sabra and Chatrilla. Few humans, much less nations, can claim an unstained heritage. Ours certainly cannot. Noninfantilized electorates (which does not count the Palestinians at the moment) can discuss such matters and deal with them

I am not disagreeing with you soda. I know what Israel has done and have read Benny Morris, whom I consider a very courageous man for wrighting what he does. However, take a look at the quote I am addressing:

"No, it would not be cruel; we don't owe them anything. In fact, we've been played by suckers for too long by them.

No, the real problem is that the Zionists stole the Arabs' land and drove out about 700,000 of them at gunpoint. The Arabs aren't going to forget it, nor let us forget it as long as there is a siphon of our money landing in Israel's treasury."

That is not the start of a rational discussion, nor is it factually correct. It is propaganda pure and simple.

 

[punkin]

You are vastly overstating and oversimplifying what occurred. No good comes out of that brand of dishonesty, so prevalent among those that wish to push the Jews into the sea. That's the kind of infantile argument that Bush supporters engage in

I see you were posting the same time as I was. Pretty much my argument as well.

 

[lw49033]

punkin, point out the incorrect part and we'll go from there, ok?

 

[Teejay32]

Not sure what this means.

Everything Hersh says turns out to be true. Nearly everything Bush says turns out to be dubious or just plain false. Surely I don't have to be a Senator to notice the contrast?

Hersh himself doesn't even state that everything he's written is true, far from it. Unfortunately the occasional credophile gets swept up in it. My condolences.