Budget Buster - flim flam granite salesmen!

[janey99]

We are renovating our kitchen and have started shopping for granite countertops - what a racket!

A few general observations -

No consistancy whatsoever in naming - some places use only a number, some places have a name, but it is not necessarily the same name for the same granite that another place might use. One place even told they change the names from time to time. NO WAY to compare prices from one place to another, or even determine if you are looking at the same stone.

Arbitrary pricing structure - one place uses tier 1-5, with each tier having a different range (tier 1 = 45-55$ sf). Ask a question about how they determine if your choice is in the high end or the low end of the tier, and the answers are REAL fuzzy - let's just say I never seemed to pick one in any tier that was at the low end! Another place uses spray painted different colored stripes - blue, double blue, silver, double silver, gold. I kept finding ones with no stripe - Oh, those are TRIPLE GOLD! What's the price? Well, it's hard to say unless you want a formal quote, for 300$!

No photographs! We have closed circuit cameras and we are watching you and we will know!!

Highlights of shopping -

Is that your best possible price? Well, commit to the quote, pay a half downpayment, and maybe the owner will bargain with you then!

Hi, I came to visit some granite I saw a couple of days ago, but it's not there any more. Oh, yeah - that changed tiers - it used to be 2, now it's 5, so it moved to the 5s. When did it change? Apparently right after I alerted them I would need 75 sf!

Make sure you read our terms of sale - the granite is yours once it is on the truck on the way to your house. Too bad if we drop it on your front walk - we break it, you bought it!

This is sucking the fun out of the renovation!

Did anyone else have similar experiences?

Jane

 

[graceesmom]

Wow. We did not. We looked at several places and found incredibly consistency in price of the slabs. The more exotic looking the higher the price, then you picked your edge finish with a price quoted for each one -- the more intricate the more it cost.

I've never heard of a reputable installer claiming you're responsible if they break the stone.

Sounds like in your area, you'd be just as well or better of to go with a big box store where at least you know they will stand by their work and have set prices, i.e. Lowe's, Home Depot. Your granite choices will be more limited, but if you're not going for the ultra high end granites you should be fine.

 

[Astro Orbiter]

Wow! We completely redid our kitchen in our last house. I loved the results, but it is completely frusterating at times.

We went big-box-modified. We didn't like their choices at the store, so when we asked if they had a larger selection they referred us to the granite showroom they worked through. Went down there and walked the floor and the warehouse with our salesperson, picked out our slabs. She wrote it up, we carried the info back to the store, and they added it to our kitchen. I had the same problem as you - everything I loved was a cat 5! So I dialed it back and we got to a 1 or a 2.

I think that what you're going to find is that while ooba tooba is the same everywhere, everything else is probably on a markup basis. So if someone paid more for the raw materials, they're charging you more for it. As for the naming, have you tried price-shopping or price-matching appliances? Every store's model numbers are different.

Have you tried telling them you want a cat 1, in this color, and having them show you what they have? I think we got the end quicker when we told them we weren't getting anything that wasn't a 1 or a 2 - they knew where we were coming from.

For the record, we ordered our materials and labor for the cabinets, granite, and installation from the same big box store. That way, we were covered against the contractors placing the blame on each other. (That did happen, and we called the store and they sorted it for us.) Probably paid a bit more than going completely piecemeal, but we were completely protected against finger-pointing, crooked bookcases, and a pain-in-the-neck dishwasher install.

 

[Swimalie]

Wow. You've had an ordeal. We're about to do our countertops in quartz and we've looked at granite. My parents did granite a few years ago but they had an interior decorator so no hassle. When we do ours, we're going through Costco. We used their buying program for our carpet and they were great! No problems, best prices and they guarantee everything well.

 

[MKCP5]

it's all about the referrals!!! Find someone who has used a particular place and had a good experiecne that is your best insurance

 

[seashoreCM]

Are there any other stores that are not like that?

I would not want do do business with a store like that.

Someone mentioned Costco. I have the gut feeling that the big box stores (Lowes, etc.) including warehouse clubs (Costco, etc.) are easier to deal with although I have not done a project like this.

Disney hints: http://www.cockam.com/disney.htm

 

[Gigi22]

To the OP--my goodness, that granite store does not sound like a place where you should do business. Just a thought--have you called your local Better Business Bureau concerning that granite dealer?

 

[Swimalie]

Are there any other stores that are not like that?

I would not want do do business with a store like that.

Someone mentioned Costco. I have the gut feeling that the big box stores (Lowes, etc.) including warehouse clubs (Costco, etc.) are easier to deal with although I have not done a project like this.

Disney hints: http://www.cockam.com/disney.htm

We got our carpet through Costco. They sent a salesperson out to the house with samples. We picked the one we liked and it was great to look at it in the house, not in a store. A few weeks later they came and installed. There was one place where they didn't stretch enough and it was short so I called. They sent someone out to fix it 2 days later and the carpet has been perfect ever since (it's been 14 months now). Very easy to deal with, great pricing and free upgrades.

 

[ncbyrne]

We are also in the process of a total kitchen remodel. It took us quite a while to find a contractor that we liked and trusted(biggest part of process). He included the price of the granite countertops into our contract. Then he gave us the names of two places where we went and chose the exact slabs that we wanted. He said that almost any slab we choose would be covered in the price (except for a few of the solid blacks). The first warehouse we went to had a LOT of choices...took us forever to make a final choice, but we did and it was a painless process. The contractor is responsible for delivery and if it broke en route, it's his problem, not ours. I'm soooo sorry you are having such difficulties. Doing a kitchen makeover can be a nightmare, but the dream ending is well worth the hassle.

 

[sunnyday123]

Wow. I know from experience going directly to the manufacturer so to speak is cheaper, but they sound shady. I didn't have that problem at all-and I went to two different granite stores and compared prices. I have the Santa Cecillia, which luckily was a level 1, but they were both nice.

I have to ask, do you think they were giving you the runaround and being so shady because you're a woman? I have had that happen to me before until they realized I knew what I was talking about. I HATE when that happens, but sometimes you have to send a guy to set them straight. Urgh, that makes me mad just typing it!

HD and Lowes have about a 20% markup, but maybe it would be best to go through them-or try to find out on the sly who they work with? Good luck.

 

[BellePrincessBelle]

I have never heard of this!! All the places I went let me take home samples of the Granite I was inteested in, prices were clearly marked and no hassle what so ever. You need to find some better places to shop.

 

[tinkarooni]

Run from them fast.....I bought granite coutertops about three years ago. Direct from the manufacturer, I choose this instead of the big box stores as the big box stores in my area only use 4 foot slabs so I would have ended up with a bunch of seams. I had a very good experience with choices, pricing and installation. Ridiculous that you are responsible if they drop it.

Why don't you post what city you are near and see if you can get some recommendations from fellow budget boarders?

 

[gonemousin']

All the places I went let me take home samples of the Granite I was inteested in, prices were clearly marked and no hassle what so ever.

This was our experience as well. All but one of the places we shopped at had the same granite names so it was easy to compare pricing.

We had no problem borrowing samples or taking pictures - they encouraged it when we picked out our slab.

Our only frustration with the experience was that pricing for the color/name we decided on was all over the map. One place had it as a 'B' price level (2nd tier - $60/sqft), another had it as a 'D' (4th tier - $90/sqft) and the fabricator we ultimately purchased from had it normally as a 'B' price tier but on sale/promotion for cheaper than their 'A' (lowest). We ended up at $45/sqft installed with a fabricator who did a beautiful job and was very professional. Going with the cheapest isn't always the smartest choice, but in our case this fabricator came highly recommended and had a good reputation.

Another thing to remember, granite pricing can skyrocket if you're adding fancy edges and have a lot of cutouts (sinks, cook top). We saved some money by going with a standard eased edge (was the style we preferred anyway) and not doing a granite back splash since we had plans to add a subway tile back splash.

It sounds like you need a recommendation for a reputable granite fabricator. The garden web kitchen forum has a nice group of folks combined with a few stone professionals who frequent it - if you post your location, I'm sure someone will point you in the right direction for your area. Getting references is very important. Good luck!

 

[janey99]

Are there any other stores that are not like that?

I would not want do do business with a store like that.

Someone mentioned Costco. I have the gut feeling that the big box stores (Lowes, etc.) including warehouse clubs (Costco, etc.) are easier to deal with although I have not done a project like this.

Disney hints: http://www.cockam.com/disney.htm

My comments are describing my experience at FOUR different stores - they were each a scary rip-off in their own unique way!

I went back to a couple of the places this morning, with DH this time, and it was socking how much better service I got. He's "in the trade" plus a man - a wonder which was the relevant distinction!

The place that moved the granite from 2 to 5 said since I was in and looking at it and they remembered me from when it was a 2, that they would give it to me for the 2 price - I'm pretty sure I'm going with that one. I doubt they would have been that generous if DH wasn't there, though.

Again, SO FRUSTATING!

Jane

 

[janey99]

Doing a kitchen makeover can be a nightmare, but the dream ending is well worth the hassle.

I know! I just keep repeating under my breath "big giant new range, big giant new range . . ."

Jane

 

[janey99]

I have never heard of this!! All the places I went let me take home samples of the Granite I was inteested in, prices were clearly marked and no hassle what so ever. You need to find some better places to shop.

They'll all let you take samples, but a 4x4 square isn't much help when you're trying to find the same giant slab somewhere else.

 

[janey99]

I have to ask, do you think they were giving you the runaround and being so shady because you're a woman? I have had that happen to me before until they realized I knew what I was talking about. I HATE when that happens, but sometimes you have to send a guy to set them straight. Urgh, that makes me mad just typing it!
QUOTE]

HA! See my response a few posts down - they were falling all over themelves to help DH today, who in addition to being a man, is a landscape architect and capable of referring tons of business if he's happy. Grrrrrr.

 

[janey99]

Another thing to remember, granite pricing can skyrocket if you're adding fancy edges and have a lot of cutouts (sinks, cook top). We saved some money by going with a standard eased edge (was the style we preferred anyway) and not doing a granite back splash since we had plans to add a subway tile back splash.
QUOTE]

We're not even at the edges, cutouts yet - I'm just trying to identify the stone so I can then decide my flooring and lighting. It's a long road!

Jane

 

[Califgirl]

Aren't kitchen remodels fun? We just finished ours and I LOVE the results. Thankfully my experience with the granite was far different than yours.

I knew what granite I wanted as soon as I saw it. And you're right, start with the countertops, (backsplash) go to the floors, then the cabinets, lighting and paint. Or at least that was how we were encouraged to build our kitchen. Starting with the granite and going to the floors really seemed to be the key.

Everywhere I went the granite was always called the same name, so there was no confusion around here. However, once we determined how much granite we needed, then we chose the slabs. It seems that you pay for the entire slab (including finishing costs) even if you have the majority of a slab left over, so we were able to find two over sized slabs that worked for us instead of using 3 slabs with more sq. ft. and a lot of waste. That saved us a ton of money. Also, we didn't actually buy the material, the granite fabricator buy the material. They got a much better price than if we had tried to buy it on our own. And none of this nonsense of who's responsible for breakage. The granite fabricator was completely responsible for the fabrication and install. And we had a LOT of granite - a 16 ft counter, a cooktop island and a 6' dry bar.

The pictures were taken with my camera, so there is lots of glare (sorry) but the granite is called 'black galaxy' and is black with copper flecks. We added a copper sink, and oil rubbed bronze fixtures and lighting.

Hang in there - it will all be over eventually! lol

 

[janey99]

Aren't kitchen remodels fun? We just finished ours and I LOVE the results. Thankfully my experience with the granite was far different than yours.

I knew what granite I wanted as soon as I saw it. And you're right, start with the countertops, (backsplash) go to the floors, then the cabinets, lighting and paint. Or at least that was how we were encouraged to build our kitchen. Starting with the granite and going to the floors really seemed to be the key.

Everywhere I went the granite was always called the same name, so there was no confusion around here. However, once we determined how much granite we needed, then we chose the slabs. It seems that you pay for the entire slab (including finishing costs) even if you have the majority of a slab left over, so we were able to find two over sized slabs that worked for us instead of using 3 slabs with more sq. ft. and a lot of waste. That saved us a ton of money. Also, we didn't actually buy the material, the granite fabricator buy the material. They got a much better price than if we had tried to buy it on our own. And none of this nonsense of who's responsible for breakage. The granite fabricator was completely responsible for the fabrication and install. And we had a LOT of granite - a 16 ft counter, a cooktop island and a 6' dry bar.

The pictures were taken with my camera, so there is lots of glare (sorry) but the granite is called 'black galaxy' and is black with copper flecks. We added a copper sink, and oil rubbed bronze fixtures and lighting.

Hang in there - it will all be over eventually! lol

Love the black galaxy - we have it as the hearth in our library and I love the way it sparkles with the fire.

Your kitchen is beautiful, really nice ceiling too!

Jane