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[Deb in IA]

Actually, ironically it was Princess that had the the non-smoking cruise ship. (It was not the Star Princess)

I Googled it, and it was the Carnival Paradise:

In November 1998, Carnival Cruise Lines introduced the first all-non-smoking cruise ship, the De.az/S Paradise. This September, the Paradise will make its last non-smoking cruise and then will become a normal “smoking OK” cruise ship.

And so another noble experiment ends in failure.

Carnival never built another non-smoking cruise ship. Paradise was the first, and it will be the last.

No other major cruise line currently operates a non-smoking ship. Renaissance Cruises operated eight non-smoking ships—which also did not allow children on board—but they closed down in September 2001. No cruise lines have announced plans for non-smoking ships.

For perspective, there are right around 100 cruise ships run by the major cruise lines serving Americans—the exact number varies from month to month as new ships are added and old ones retired. Carnival Cruise Lines operates about half of those ships under its five biggest brand names: Carnival, Costa, Cunard, Holland-America, and Princess. Yet it seems that there is no longer room for even one of those cruise ships to be non-smoking.

I have sailed on the Paradise on four sailings, including the inaugural sailing. On all of the sailings, the ship was booked to near-capacity. There was no shortage of people who wanted to cruise in an environment where smoke didn’t fill the public areas of the ship. So, if the ship was always popular, why did Carnival never build another, and why are they ending the non-smoking experiment entirely?

I cannot say for certain, as I do not work for Carnival and they have not made any explanation in their announcement. The announcement plays it as an obvious move since Paradise is now one of their smaller (and older) ships and thus will be relegated to making short cruises. All of which is reasonable, but the question is “Why is there no new non-smoking ship for the big cruises?”

Here is my own guess. On the Paradise, it was nice that there was no smoke hanging in the casino and lounges. But there also were precious few passengers hanging in the casino and lounges. On the other hand, the fitness center—and Paradise has one of the largest fitness centers on a cruise ship—was always bustling. Casinos and drinks make money for the cruise line; the fitness center is a free service.

Non-smokers tend to have a more conservative life-style than do smokers, and this hits the cruise lines in their big profit centers: liquor and gambling. And that is my guess as to why the cruise lines cater to smokers.

Sunday, 18 January, 2004

http://creativekarma.com/ee.php/weblog/comments/surprising_failure_non_smoking_cruises/


However, there IS some good news: On THIS site http://travel.howstuffworks.com/cruise1.htm they list Renaissence Cruises as entirely non-smoking, as is the above mentioned Carnival Paradise.

Non-smoking cruiser -- The cruise industry is paying attention to people calling for non-smoking dining rooms and facilities. Most lines now have non-smoking dining rooms. Many limit smoking to a few public areas on the ship and a couple have gone completely non-smoking. Renaissance Cruises' entire fleet of ships are non-smoking vessels. So is the Carnival Paradise. If smoking bothers you, be sure to inquire about non-smoking cruises and/or non-smoking cabins.

 

[HappyLawyer]

OMG!!! WOW!!!! I had no idea that it would be that bad!!

we are on the same cruise are you on our meets threat,

 

[Rence]

very sad, so it would appear someone did not put out a cigarette properly? I don't care if people smoke in the perspective areas that is fine, but please, put items out correctly, my heart goes out.

When I was a kid (back in the 60s) it seemed to me that most smokers either looked for an ashtray or had a portable ashtray with them. I don't remember people using the ground as an ashtray as much as today.

Today, the vast vast majority of smokers that I see, just put the cigarette out on the ground. I have witnessed this outside and inside on tile, concerte, carpeting, you name it. Also many drivers don't use their ashtray, they use the window, which is how a lot of brush fires get started.

It is NEVER appropriate to toss a cigarette or put it out on the ground. NEVER EVER EVER. This is littering and those who do this should start getting fined until we return to people taking care of cigarettes properly.

On cruise ships, the staff should speak to anyone that they see throwing a cigarette overboard and repeat offenders should be fined, or put off the ship in the next port. The potential for danger is too great to take this lightly.

 

[momrek06]

Stupid cigarettes!!!!!
So sad and scary, makes me nervous to cruise.

DITTO!!!! DITTO!!!! Could not have said it BETTER

 

[ashman]

In the interest of full disclosure let me state that I am not a smoker, I detest smoking, I suffered from chronic bronchitis as a child because my mother smoked and I lost two grandparents to tobacco related diseases. This is a horrible tragedy and I cannot imagine the grief that the affect families are going through. That said, to say because of this we should ban smoking altogether is a bit like throwing the baby out with the bath water. I realize that this will strike a chord for many people and I do not wish to insult or offend anyone. We have a dangerous tendency in this country that when ever a tragedy occurs to go into a reactionary mode that states “Because X happened we should ban Y forever” You cannot effectively legislate common sense nor can you force it on others through cultural or societal pressure. This even serves as a sobering reminder of the need to mindful that our actions go beyond the enjoyment of an activity. Many of us have “hot button” issues and smoking sure is one of them. (It is one of the highly debated subjects on this board). Banning smoking because of this instance bears a similar resemblance to saying you should ban alcohol on a cruise because that newlywed couple got drunk and the husband fell overboard. For better of for worse we live in a world where horrible things can a do happen to people. There is no way to protect oneself perfectly. I know this may stir up a hornets next but I hope that differing views can be discussed in a respectful manner.

 

[Rence]

Ashman - I am pretty much in agreement. Non-smoker, don't like smoking etc.

The issue here, as I pointed out in my previous post, isn't necessarily smoking, it is the disposal of the cigarette that is the problem. Many smokers are highly irresponsible in this area and we need to work on this behaviour. If one wishes to smoke, one must do so only in the permitted areas and one must properly dispose of their cigarette when done. Sanctions need to be taken against those who do not.

 

[Tarabra]

This couldn't have come at a more opportune time. I just sent my mom an email saying how worried we were about her falling asleep w/ a cigarette. She falls asleep at the drop of a hat. Very scary. Maybe this will open her eyes.

 

[lbgraves]

lbgraves....msnbc reported this did happen at night at about 3am...can you imagine how even scarier this was in the middle of the night?

Goodness! The first article that was found said that the ship pulled into port at 11 am. I was guessing that it had started a few hours earlier. Then, they are lucky that more people didn't die. The first thing that I wondered is if it was a cigarette. If it was out on the balcony, then DCL ships could have had the same thing happen.

 

[atigeg]

This is Barb, posting under her hubby's ID:

On cruise ships, the staff should speak to anyone that they see throwing a cigarette overboard and repeat offenders should be fined, or put off the ship in the next port. The potential for danger is too great to take this lightly.

I'll go you one better...if this was caused by careless disposal of a cigarette, I think that the person should be sued by the cruise line for the cost of the damage. Granted, they could probably never afford tp pay the whole judgement, but knowing that you can have your income bricked for life for careless smoking behavior would be an effective deterrent to others.

Of course, I'm of the opinon that when someone falls out of a roller coaster due to their own dangerous behavior, they (or their family, if they die) should be liable to pay the amusement park damages for the bad publicity and any subsequent drop in attendance/revenue. There's a little thing called "personal responsibility" that seems to be lacking nowadays.

Barb

 

[ashman]

Rence- Agreed, sanctions do need to be in place and enforced. I just don’t feel a side wide ban on smoking is the answer. Oftentimes there are already sanctions in place for spurious activities, they just aren’t enforced. Banning doesn’t solve the problem, it just creates new ones. I fully concur that improper disposal should be prosecuted. I just don’t want to see a whole scale ban, to paraphrase Dedrick Bonhoffer and his famous quote as to why he as a Christian actively worked to protect Jews in Europe during the middle of the last century: “They sought to remove smoking and I did nothing for I wasn’t a smoker, They sought to remove frosty adult beverages and I did nothing because I wasn’t a drinker , they sought to remove the Rasul spa because to me there are certain placed mud just shouldn’t go! , they sought to remove Palo and I did nothing because I wasn’t a sophisticated diner. Then they came to take away the video games, and no one would help me for there was no one left!

 

[atigeg]

If it was out on the balcony, then DCL ships could have had the same thing happen.

Worse yet, if it was out on the balcony and the doors were closed, it probably had time to get a good start before anyone noticed, since the smoke detectors and sprinklers are inside the staterooms. At 3 a.m., it's doubtful anyone was outside to smell it.
Barb

 

[Lew]

Wow, we cruised on the Star Princess in January. What a beautiful ship!!

So sorry about this tragedy. Our prayers go out to all involved.

 

[JDietz40]

Worse yet, if it was out on the balcony and the doors were closed, it probably had time to get a good start before anyone noticed, since the smoke detectors and sprinklers are inside the staterooms. At 3 a.m., it's doubtful anyone was outside to smell it.
Barb

This truly is a tragedy and my heart goes out to all involved. That being said for us one benefit to Cruising on DCL is that there is less heavy duty partying going on to all hours of the night. It is my guess that since the fire started 3 AM there is probably a pretty good chance that drinking was involved at some point. (JMHO)



John

 

[HooKooDooKu]

because of this we should ban smoking altogether is a bit like throwing the baby out with the bath water. I realize that this will strike a chord for many people and I do not wish to insult or offend anyone. We have a dangerous tendency in this country that when ever a tragedy occurs to go into a reactionary mode that states “Because X happened we should ban Y forever” You cannot effectively legislate common sense nor can you force it on others through cultural or societal pressure. This even serves as a sobering reminder of the need to mindful that our actions go beyond the enjoyment of an activity. Many of us have “hot button” issues and smoking sure is one of them. (It is one of the highly debated subjects on this board). Banning smoking because of this instance bears a similar resemblance to saying you should ban alcohol on a cruise because that newlywed couple got drunk and the husband fell overboard.

I personally wouldn't mind banning BOTH Smoking and Alcohol, but in any case, it's not a fair to compare smoking with alcohol. In the case of alcohol and falling over board, the only person physically hurt/killed is the drinker. In the case of this cigarette (if that is indeed the culprit), the smoker has [indirectly] killed one person, injured lots more, ruined a vacation for thousands, and cost millions.

I'm afraid I have to totally disagree that when something like this has caused this much of a consequence, then the simple act of banning smoking on all forms of mass transit makes too much sence. It's just the learning of a lesson.

For a comparison, look at car seats. When I was growing up, just getting people to bukle up was a challange. I can still remember stories from my parents of going on road trips with kids everywhere in the car. But because we've learned that we can save the lives of some children, most new parents today wouldn't dream of travelling with their infant without a car seat (Britney not withstanding ).

 

[need_a_Disney_fix]

This truly is a tragedy and my heart goes out to all involved. That being said for us one benefit to Cruising on DCL is that there is less heavy duty partying going on to all hours of the night. It is my guess that since the fire started 3 AM there is probably a pretty good chance that drinking was involved at some point. (JMHO)



John

I agree, John. You can bash smokers all you want, but it seems the late-night partying is not helping in these situations. Just don't think DCL has much of this problem. JMHO

 

[HappyLawyer]

i am not a smoker, i have asthma and chronic bronchritis but we must realize and tolerate that people smoke, i do not think it is fair to make statements like ban, should we ban drinks? The issue here is having people dispose of things properly, i mean i hate to make this statement but, throw it into the ocean or the water instead of the ground, at least that way it is in water, but, it could easily fall onto another deck and still start a fire. We may not agree with choices others make but we cannot impose unrealistic actions. We all have someone in our family somewhere down the line who smokes, would you tell the person,, realistically to stop smoking or be banned from the family and mean it fully with your entire heart? My mother smokes, she does not do it around me or in my house and when we vacation, she does not smoke around me. People who engage in things, smoke, drinks even drugs i do not condone any of these but if it is done, be responsible for your actions and not put others in harms way.

Again my heart goes out to all those touched by this event.

 

[HappyLawyer]

I personally wouldn't mind banning BOTH Smoking and Alcohol, but in any case, it's not a fair to compare smoking with alcohol. In the case of alcohol and falling over board, the only person physically hurt/killed is the drinker. In the case of this cigarette (if that is indeed the culprit), the smoker has [indirectly] killed one person, injured lots more, ruined a vacation for thousands, and cost millions.

I'm afraid I have to totally disagree that when something like this has caused this much of a consequence, then the simple act of banning smoking on all forms of mass transit makes too much sence. It's just the learning of a lesson.

For a comparison, look at car seats. When I was growing up, just getting people to bukle up was a challange. I can still remember stories from my parents of going on road trips with kids everywhere in the car. But because we've learned that we can save the lives of some children, most new parents today wouldn't dream of travelling with their infant without a car seat (Britney not withstanding ).

It is fair to compare them, both have harming impacts, one is not better then the other. They in essence are the same. Think of it this way, the best analogy i can think of is religous,

if you commit a sin, God does not have classifications of ones that are more harmful then the other a sin is a sin they carry the same weight.

This statement was not made to begin a debate over religion, it is the best example, I could come up with.

 

[georgina]

It is fair to compare them, both have harming impacts, one is not better then the other. They in essence are the same. Think of it this way, the best analogy i can think of is religous,

if you commit a sin, God does not have classifications of ones that are more harmful then the other a sin is a sin they carry the same weight.

This statement was not made to begin a debate over religion, it is the best example, I could come up with.

Obviously not a Catholic! Some sins are worse than others in my religion. Smoking carries with it the possibility of falling asleep near flammable mattresses and linens. I do not want that around me. Excessive drinking can be an annoyance but unless they are driving, not as potentially harmful to others. And murder is worse than a little white lie!

 

[ericamanda01]

Well.... I don;t have precise stats but I suspect cruising is still safer then flying commercial (per passenger mile/ or passenger hour aboard) and probably safer then walking down the street in most major cities.

Not to say the loss of life and horror are any less significant. But, this is not too bad considering the life lost was not due to the fire directly. And I might add conversely that the photos of the damage are actually sobering. It almost looks to me as if the ship engaged in NO firfighting and just let it burn itself out. I can't imagine a fire on a ship spreading so far without having had huge time to spread.... of help to spread.

Plus I'd like to echo agreement....

I think smoking is such a filthy and inconsiderate habit. Little redeeming value in it plus now the loss of life and damage... Every smoker on the ship should be detained to walk through the carnage and view the injured. Oh.. even better would be to make every smoker go through and help clean up.

Oh well... I've gone off and vented excessively, pardon my flames.... I still look on cruising as a good way to go on a vacation.... even with a few unwanted suicidal smokers in tow.

I am really not trying to be rude however, too make a statement like this is unnecessary and just plain mean. It could just have easily been a non-smoker who got drunk and decided to light up that caused the fire.

 

[Rena75]

It is fair to compare them, both have harming impacts, one is not better then the other.

I disagree. Smoking can harm many people - either by second-hand smoke or by being careless and setting a fire unintentionally.

If someone is drunk, unless they are driving (which IS against the law), then their actions most times are not life-threatening to anyone else but themselves. Now, granted, I've wanted to kill a few drunks in my day but there is a big difference between drinking and smoking.

I can sit with you in a bar while you drink and make the choice not to drink and my health will not be compromised. That can't be said with smoking.

I smoked for 16 years - back in the day before all the warnings from the Surgeon General.