Breaking Disney News 3 Major Expansions

I would be surprised to see all of this done by 2018 given the construction schedules from past additions. That's a LOT of changes in less than 5 years along with the work being done now. Believe me, I hope it's all true. I hate to see JII go. Instead of eliminating it, they should just put it back to the original.

I also don't see Disney being concerned with the HP expansion. Will it bring a short term increase in visits to US/IOA, yes. Long term I still don't see US/IOA as a "vacation Destination" like Disney has created. There just isn't enough real estate for them to create the same experience. I am not a US/IOA hater. We have been several times. I just see it as a different experience. The Star Wars and Avatar expansions will happen at some point as the $$ invested in the franchises almost guarantee a tie in at the parks. These would still happen if US/IOA closed down tomorrow.

I think a lot of the rumors have a lot of truth to them, just not sure building that quickly is likely. Let's all hope that all of it is true and we have new things to see and do soon.
 
So if you figure a 3 month Summer, plus maybe another 2 months spread across the year for spring Breaks and Winter Breaks, and the occasional "cheated" expanded long weekend around certain holidays [Presidents Day/ Columbus Day/ etc], That still leaves 7 months a year when Disney is actively targetting your "non-typical American Family" to fill the park.
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Based on being a teacher and witnessing student vacation patterns, and having numerous family members and friends who have children under the age of 10, I can tell you with 100% certainty that families with children under the age of 8-9 have no trouble traveling during the off-season. First of all, kids don't start "real" school until age 6, so that's 6 years of vacations to WDW. Furthermore, most parents feel that taking the kids out of school from Wednesday night through Tuesday night for any vacation is fine until the kids reach 4th, maybe 5th grade. My sister's family does it every October. She has 3 kids under the age of 10 and frankly it is too expensive to fly everyone down during spring break or winter break. A lot cheaper to go in October. So the kids miss a few days of school....

I think the school issue really applies when the whole family is over the age of 10. Those kids really can't miss 4+ days of school. Otherwise, those "traditional" families will continue to go year round.
 
The reason WDW doesn't have an "off season" anymore is because Disney has started filling out the traditional slow times with increased marketting and promo's to international guests, and special events (such as runDisney events, themed events like Star Wars, ESPN, and Soap opera Weekends, and Food and Wine/Flower and Garden Festivals).

I'd be willing to say that both strategies are targetted specifically towards groups that fall outside your "traditional American Family with 5-7 vacation days" bucket. In part, that's because that same 'Traditional Family" is going to be tied to school holidays because the traditional family is going to have kids in school. They are not going to be able to go down in mid may for a special weekend event because the kids are going to need to be in class for their last couple weeks of tests. They are not going down in January for a marathon. They are going to go in mid-spring for Easter breaks, Or the Summer, or the Christmas/New Years breaks.... Those times that are just crazy busy and always have been.

So if you figure a 3 month Summer, plus maybe another 2 months spread across the year for spring Breaks and Winter Breaks, and the occasional "cheated" expanded long weekend around certain holidays [Presidents Day/ Columbus Day/ etc], That still leaves 7 months a year when Disney is actively targetting your "non-typical American Family" to fill the park.


This could be Childless Americans.... Your young couples. Empty Nesters. 'alternative families'. Adult only trips. etc.

It could be your international Guests. Europeans. South Americans. Asians. etc. people Not tied to the traditional US School Calendar...

It could even be Families who may be "typical American Families" who fall outside the 5-7 days of vacation window. People who can afford and justify a regular or long weekend trip to Disney instead of a full dedicated week.

either way.... to say that Disney is still primarily targetting that "Typical American Family with 5-7 days vacation" I think is in some ways focusing on just a small part of the overall picture. Look at the increasing costs of Deluxe hotels, or DVC ownership, or the increasing number of higher cost special events [Table in Wonderland Events. Special Merchandise events. Wine Tastings. Dessert Parties. Seminars. etc]. That 'traditional, typical, american family with 5-7 vacation days' is not going to have the time, budget, or ability to take advantage of all the things outside of the 4 parks that Disney is starting to offer to bring more guests to their resort. IMHO, The simple fact that Disney is continuing to expand their offerings of these higher cost extras is all you need to prove that Disney is not basing their growth or future on the idea that the 'typical american family with 5-7 vacation days' are their primary target audience.

I think you would be very surprised at how many typical families take their kids out of school for vacation.

I know some school systems are pretty draconian about absences, but not all...and at least in our state, not even most....do.
 
I think you would be very surprised at how many typical families take their kids out of school for vacation.

I know some school systems are pretty draconian about absences, but not all...and at least in our state, not even most....do.

My wife is from a family of teachers (she was before kids)...both my parents were...
And yet we have a consensus that there are very few circumstances were an education can be derailed by a week off here or there.

For me that's personal history... Where even in a good public school i remember thinking the pace was "painfully slow" and the gifted program was worth more in independent type study a couple of hours a week than the rest of the time combined.
Now I can't say that is the case for all or even close to that...but I will venture that missing a few days is not that big of a deal.

Here In crazyland... The calendar is blown apart by archaic holidays and observances anyway... Completely disruptive. I would venture that's worse on the aggregate than a planned week out of the ordinary that actually might drive as much interest in preparing for from the student than provide distraction.

Why can't the kids miss school? Survival of the fittest?
Look at our 1.3 trillion college debt or the astronomical price increases... The stagnation of wages in the workforce or the pimping out of all labor to "emerging markets" under the media friendly term of "globalization"

It's not political... It's economic truth.

And to maintain a chance of survival against that...my second grader has to sit in October and drill fractions repeatedly as opposed to a couple of days of EPCOT?

That's what will matter? Against that system?
Seems like a trying to bring down an elephant with your fingers and a rubberband...if you ask me.

But what do I know... Just an opinion off the top of my head.
 

I hope US competes like crazy and draws quite a bit of the crowd out.

I'll never stay at a US resort, and I doubt I'll ever spend more than half a day at their parks if that. US is a Disney copycat, and wouldn't be where they are were it not for being that kid in the class that looks over at the smart kid next to them's test sheet.

Went to Harry Potter, that was the only place in US that had any sort of "magic" to it that WDW has...and WDW has it EVERYWHERE in their FOUR theme parks, and TWENTY FOUR resorts. And with Disney's purchase of Marvel, US is backed into a corner on that franchise.

WDW is a WORLD, US is a theme park. I am no more attracted to make a trip to US than I am to make a trip to Busch Gardens, Six Flags, or King's Dominion...all of which are MUCH closer to me. A 10 hour drive to see US is just out of the question for me and my wife.

People come from all over to see WDW, and US is a sideshow that benefits from it, if that.

NFL, as has been mentioned here, I believe did exactly what it was supposed to do (this is, of course, before 7D is finished). It was obviously never intended to be a thrill attraction...it was intended to create more of that overwhelming Disney magic that takes a animated movie and puts it in the real world. It certainly made the wife and I more antsy to get down the Florida, and though I'll admit we were slightly disappointed in the back of our minds that it wasn't bigger, disappointed just isn't the word. It was still awesome.

Universal was making movies before Walt Disney was out of grade school, it owned the themed movie studio concept DECADES before Disney MGM Studios was half-built by Eisner, the only reason of which was to open ahead of Universal Studios in Orlando.

Yes, WDW is the leader for now, but Universal is gaining market share and attendance every year. They're investing billions of dollars in expansions, half of which haven't even been announced yet.

WDW is losing its "magic" as of late, closing better attractions for cheap ones, dumbing down menu options and food quality declining, then forcing people to plan their fastpasses 60 days in advance, how's that 3 BILLION being spent going for MyMagic+?

The latest I've heard is that we won't see any new expansion in plans at D23 this year for WDW and that doesn't surprise me, as they've been able to torpedo most of the big plans that Imagineering comes up with.
 
Universal was making movies before Walt Disney was out of grade school, it owned the themed movie studio concept DECADES before Disney MGM Studios was half-built by Eisner, the only reason of which was to open ahead of Universal Studios in Orlando.

Yes, WDW is the leader for now, but Universal is gaining market share and attendance every year. They're investing billions of dollars in expansions, half of which haven't even been announced yet.

WDW is losing its "magic" as of late, closing better attractions for cheap ones, dumbing down menu options and food quality declining, then forcing people to plan their fastpasses 60 days in advance, how's that 3 BILLION being spent going for MyMagic+?

The latest I've heard is that we won't see any new expansion in plans at D23 this year for WDW and that doesn't surprise me, as they've been able to torpedo most of the big plans that Imagineering comes up with.

I'm aware, yes Disney worked for Universal at one point. I'm not making a claim that Disney was first, but when Disney passed them, there was no looking back. We won't even get into the MGM mess as that is a whole new can of worms. Yes, US was first at making the movie studio theme park. But I'm comparing MK to US, not MGM. Universal Orlando opened to compete with WDW.
 
My wife is from a family of teachers (she was before kids)...both my parents were...
And yet we have a consensus that there are very few circumstances were an education can be derailed by a week off here or there.

For me that's personal history... Where even in a good public school i remember thinking the pace was "painfully slow" and the gifted program was worth more in independent type study a couple of hours a week than the rest of the time combined.
Now I can't say that is the case for all or even close to that...but I will venture that missing a few days is not that big of a deal.

Here In crazyland... The calendar is blown apart by archaic holidays and observances anyway... Completely disruptive. I would venture that's worse on the aggregate than a planned week out of the ordinary that actually might drive as much interest in preparing for from the student than provide distraction.

Why can't the kids miss school? Survival of the fittest?
Look at our 1.3 trillion college debt or the astronomical price increases... The stagnation of wages in the workforce or the pimping out of all labor to "emerging markets" under the media friendly term of "globalization"

It's not political... It's economic truth.

And to maintain a chance of survival against that...my second grader has to sit in October and drill fractions repeatedly as opposed to a couple of days of EPCOT?

That's what will matter? Against that system?
Seems like a trying to bring down an elephant with your fingers and a rubberband...if you ask me.

But what do I know... Just an opinion off the top of my head.

Preachin' to the choir, man.

We take our kids out for a week every year (our oldest turns 11, today). It's pretty much the only time they miss every year (maybe a couple other days due to illness) We give the teachers LOTS of notice (usually telling them at the open house at the beginning of the year). We avoid the standardized test weeks. Not one teacher or administrator has ever said "boo" about it.

That may change once our oldest hits middle school (7th grade), but if it changes, it's likely going to change in the fact that we will take shorter, "long weekend" trips and/or some solo trips without the kids.

We do it not because it's cheaper (it is), but because the times of year I can travel (fall, early winter) for any significant length of time, due to work commitments, are limited. So, to vacation as a family, it means going in late Sept/early Oct, very early December, or early to mid January. Maybe, occasionally, I can work a spring trip at some point. So far, though...it's been too busy for me to get away during those time frames (and I've been at my current place of employment for going on 13 years).

To go along with all of the above, I'd offer that there is also benefit (social, cultural, and educational) to spending some quality time with your family (and specifically your parents) that helps offset any educational detriment that might arise. And we do make "homework time" during the trip where we do things like have the kids drill their math facts or whatever they're working on.

That being said, it typically takes about a week of "extra homework"...roughly an hour a night... for our kids to get through the makeup work they have waiting for them when they get back.....and sometimes a lot less.

But, truthfully, I'm not here to argue the benefits of, or justify, doing it. There's other threads around that do that. I'm just saying that it goes on an awful lot more than the post I responded to seemed to indicate.
 
Universal was making movies before Walt Disney was out of grade school, it owned the themed movie studio concept DECADES before Disney MGM Studios was half-built by Eisner, the only reason of which was to open ahead of Universal Studios in Orlando.

Universal first had a *Movie Studio tour within the studio* and its was Excellent. It was not a theme park, there was nothing to theme, all the back lot stuff was there. Then they followed Disney with the use of them movies in attractions/rides. Universal Hollywood was the first studio theme park later.

Yes, WDW is the leader for now, but Universal is gaining market share and attendance every year. They're investing billions of dollars in expansions, half of which haven't even been announced yet.

Universal is gaining attendance not market share. They are marketing the trill and scary rides and yes potter and some is pretty good, but it is a normal group they are looking after.

WDW is losing its "magic" as of late, closing better attractions for cheap ones, dumbing down menu options and food quality declining, then forcing people to plan their fastpasses 60 days in advance, how's that 3 BILLION being spent going for MyMagic+?

Sorry all just plain wrong. and where I di you get 3Billion for Mt Magic, or even 1 billion. The cost was never announced but in much lower in the million per tech news trades estimates.

The latest I've heard is that we won't see any new expansion in plans at D23 this year for WDW and that doesn't surprise me, as they've been able to torpedo most of the big plans that Imagineering comes up with.

Up until 3 years ago I would agree about Igers bean counters, but things a\have changed and gotten better,. Look at 23% increase in DCA in ONE year, which took potter to bring to IOAS over 3 years. and D23 is not the big news announcement platform some seem to think it is.

There is major new attractions coming out. late yes, but coming.


The bottom line here is Disney magic and pixie dust in WDW is so much more and provides so many more special things then thrill and scary park rides which is basicely what Uni is pushing. Disney is what families come to Orlando for, Disney markets to them and all people, not just the thrill ride folks.

There is little comparisons, its Apples and orange and frankly WDW will do better with Uni around and vice versa.

However you will never see the magic in a child's eye that you see in WDW, and I don't think any child is going to hug a transformer or any of that rude, crude and dysfunctional Simpson family.

AKK
 
And it will do what Disney does best: provide another ride that the WHOLE family can go on together.

This right here is why we have not been to US yet. We are huge Harry Potter fans and would love to see what they have done and what they are doing over at US, but with small kids it isn't the right time yet. There is only a small handful of rides my kids can't go on at WDW (they are 44 and 48 inches), but they would miss out on quite a bit at US.

When they are older we absolutely plan on hitting up US. We would probably even stay on Disney property at the same time (we are DVC, why not use a "free" room). But for now our money goes to Disney because they are more family friendly in our opinion.
 
Last night in the Q3 Earnings Webcast call, Iger said that Avatar was "a couple of years away" so it seems Disney are still committed to the project.

I don't know how much Disney would be willing to divulge at the Expo, but I don't see it them discussing attractions at this stage.
 
First... I'll conceed the "kids out of school" point. It appears I underestimated how often it happens. You live, you learn. :goodvibes

I'm aware, yes Disney worked for Universal at one point. I'm not making a claim that Disney was first, but when Disney passed them, there was no looking back. We won't even get into the MGM mess as that is a whole new can of worms. Yes, US was first at making the movie studio theme park. But I'm comparing MK to US, not MGM. Universal Orlando opened to compete with WDW.

Comparing MK to US isn't fair either. The Magic Kingdom has a different goal and core theme than the Universal Studios Park. It's also a park that is stacked with dozens of classic attractions (many of which were designed for/taken from Disneyland in California). On that regard, It would be almost like comparing the Magic Kingdom to any of Disney's other major parks. Even attendance numbers have the MK at almost double what the lesser parks pull in annually.

That being said.... I think your final sentence isn't based on anything beyond an assumption, and I'd go so far as to call it outright an incorrect one at that. "Universal Studios Florida" was opened, I Believe, In order to tap into the Existing Tourist marketplace on the East Coast. It was also designed to be a full production studio in the Florida area. It wasn't designed or opened to compete with WDW, but to join the marketplace in the Orlando Area that Disney created and was occupied by Disney, Sea World, Boardwalk & Baseball, Cypress Gardens, and the numerous other lesser attractions in the Orlando/Central Florida area.

If Anything, Disney-MGM was rushed to open to compete directly with the Universal Studios Florida park, and to provide Disney's own Studio and production facility in Central Florida.


Now.... Both parks have since evolved from their original intents. Neither houses the same type of working Studio and productions as they once did. That wasn't as much the result of the Theme Park operation as it was just due to factors related to the Movie/Television production marketplace. MGM absorbed and repurposed most of it's old production spaces for Tourist attractions. Universal Studios Florida ended up doing major overhauls to their studio/park and turned it from a single studio/Park into a complete resort destination of it's own. (And renamed to the "Universal Orlando Resort").

I still won't call Universal's goal or purpose to be a direct competition to Disney... But to still be a destination of it's own taking advantage of the tourism and transportation infrastructure the area provides, As well as the year-round Weather benefits of the location..... While not totally ignoring the symbiotic advantages of having such a major tourism draw located just down the road.
 
The reason WDW doesn't have an "off season" anymore is because Disney has started filling out the traditional slow times with increased marketting and promo's to international guests, and special events (such as runDisney events, themed events like Star Wars, ESPN, and Soap opera Weekends, and Food and Wine/Flower and Garden Festivals).

I'd be willing to say that both strategies are targetted specifically towards groups that fall outside your "traditional American Family with 5-7 vacation days" bucket. In part, that's because that same 'Traditional Family" is going to be tied to school holidays because the traditional family is going to have kids in school. They are not going to be able to go down in mid may for a special weekend event because the kids are going to need to be in class for their last couple weeks of tests. They are not going down in January for a marathon. They are going to go in mid-spring for Easter breaks, Or the Summer, or the Christmas/New Years breaks.... Those times that are just crazy busy and always have been.

So if you figure a 3 month Summer, plus maybe another 2 months spread across the year for spring Breaks and Winter Breaks, and the occasional "cheated" expanded long weekend around certain holidays [Presidents Day/ Columbus Day/ etc], That still leaves 7 months a year when Disney is actively targetting your "non-typical American Family" to fill the park.


This could be Childless Americans.... Your young couples. Empty Nesters. 'alternative families'. Adult only trips. etc.

It could be your international Guests. Europeans. South Americans. Asians. etc. people Not tied to the traditional US School Calendar...

It could even be Families who may be "typical American Families" who fall outside the 5-7 days of vacation window. People who can afford and justify a regular or long weekend trip to Disney instead of a full dedicated week.

either way.... to say that Disney is still primarily targetting that "Typical American Family with 5-7 days vacation" I think is in some ways focusing on just a small part of the overall picture. Look at the increasing costs of Deluxe hotels, or DVC ownership, or the increasing number of higher cost special events [Table in Wonderland Events. Special Merchandise events. Wine Tastings. Dessert Parties. Seminars. etc]. That 'traditional, typical, american family with 5-7 vacation days' is not going to have the time, budget, or ability to take advantage of all the things outside of the 4 parks that Disney is starting to offer to bring more guests to their resort. IMHO, The simple fact that Disney is continuing to expand their offerings of these higher cost extras is all you need to prove that Disney is not basing their growth or future on the idea that the 'typical american family with 5-7 vacation days' are their primary target audience.

You make a lot of good points. As a stockholder, Disney does a great job of convincing you that not taking your child for a visit makes you a bad parent, don't they?:rotfl2::rotfl2:

Families with younger kids have no problems pulling the kids out of school. We did it for 5 years in a row until my oldest was in middle school. After that WE decided not to pull him out and now vacation in August. The schools motivation to not have kids missing is that funding is based on student days.

I think Disney is still marketing to the regular family, but has added DVC that now makes it more likely to go back year after year as you say. The lack of offseason is because those willing to take their kids out of school will do so for the lower crowds. They have also added the Halloween seasonal events, Food and Wine, are promoting Flower and Garden more and the general ability to reach more people through social media has made it easier to convince families to book a vacation. With all the FD, room discounts and other incentives, they have managed to balance out some of the crowd levels to the lesser busy times.

If/when all of the discounts end, you'll see a drop in bookings and the seasons will be more regimented again. Right now Disney is no more expensive than any other trip I have budgeted. That is great value for us. When the incentives go away and Disney becomes more expensive, we will still go but not as often as other trips become equal or better value.
 
Ok, The Backlot Tour is ok and there's a chance my son will like Figment, but otherwise I'd be completely fine with all those attractions and areas being removed. I hate being negative and if you're an easily offended Star Wars fan, just don't read the rest of this post. So. My problem is that I HHHHAAAATTTTEEEE STAR WARS! I hate it so much I feel WDW will be sullied by the pure existence of a Star Wars land. AAAARRRRGH!! Sulky sulky sulk sulk. Grump grump.

Oh and I'm not happy about the Avatar land either.

Whining completed.

Sent from my iPad using DISBoards
 
Comparing MK to US isn't fair either. The Magic Kingdom has a different goal and core theme than the Universal Studios Park. It's also a park that is stacked with dozens of classic attractions (many of which were designed for/taken from Disneyland in California). On that regard, It would be almost like comparing the Magic Kingdom to any of Disney's other major parks. Even attendance numbers have the MK at almost double what the lesser parks pull in annually.

I disagree. They may be in different categories, but they are subcategories. They are competing for the same market that WDW is competing for...that being theme park goers. The average tourist doesn't say "Well, I love theme parks, but I'm not into movie themed theme parks, so I'm going to skip US." Comparing the MK to other WDW parks is totally accurate. Every day we are at WDW, we could go to any one of the four parks on site...therefore, each of the parks is competing to see which we are going to spend our money at, the same way as each of the 50 states in the US compete with one another. We're all on the same team, but we still compete. You don't divide competition because goals/themes are different. Those are things that differentiate the two apart and are the deciding factors that help tourists decide which to go to. That IS competition.

That being said.... I think your final sentence isn't based on anything beyond an assumption, and I'd go so far as to call it outright an incorrect one at that. "Universal Studios Florida" was opened, I Believe, In order to tap into the Existing Tourist marketplace on the East Coast. It was also designed to be a full production studio in the Florida area. It wasn't designed or opened to compete with WDW, but to join the marketplace in the Orlando Area that Disney created and was occupied by Disney, Sea World, Boardwalk & Baseball, Cypress Gardens, and the numerous other lesser attractions in the Orlando/Central Florida area.

This is just totally contradictory. Universal opened in Orlando in order to compete with Disney for the tourist marketplace that Disney created, that's what we are both agreeing on.. I have no idea how you could arrive at the conclusion that that does not mean they opened to compete with Disney. People don't compete for their health, they compete to take market share away from other companies that are in the same industry as them. It's the same reason why every time an Advance Auto Parts opens, soon after, an Autozone is going to open annoyingly close to them. It is to tap into the market that the other is already involved in.



If Anything, Disney-MGM was rushed to open to compete directly with the Universal Studios Florida park, and to provide Disney's own Studio and production facility in Central Florida.

Without a doubt, but that does not mean the other parks do not compete with Universal. That is Disney more directly competing...the same way that Comcast competes with Directv. Comcast is not a satellite company. Dish and Directv are more directly competing, while Cox and Comcast compete more directly with one another as well...however, Cox, Comcast, Dish, and DTV all compete with one another, though their markets are slightly different.
 
I disagree. They may be in different categories, but they are subcategories. They are competing for the same market that WDW is competing for...that being theme park goers. The average tourist doesn't say "Well, I love theme parks, but I'm not into movie themed theme parks, so I'm going to skip US." Comparing the MK to other WDW parks is totally accurate. Every day we are at WDW, we could go to any one of the four parks on site...therefore, each of the parks is competing to see which we are going to spend our money at, the same way as each of the 50 states in the US compete with one another. We're all on the same team, but we still compete. You don't divide competition because goals/themes are different. Those are things that differentiate the two apart and are the deciding factors that help tourists decide which to go to. That IS competition.

When MGM and Universal first opened, Their Primary headline attractions were both of the "Backstage/Behind the scenes studio tour" varieties. They both also had your sound-artist attraction (Murder She Wrote/ Sounds Dangerously's predecessor) and several other virtual clones, along with several other attractions to fill out the lineup.

Beyond that.. even today, I still see the Magic Kingdom and Universal Studios parks being targetted at different audiences. The Magic Kingdom plays heavily towards nostaligia, and "whole family" attractions. It's at the point that you only have like 3 attractions (currently) which kids cannot ride...the 3 mountains.

Universal on the other hand doesn't play to that same audience. It's attractions tend to be a bit higher on the thrill or activity style. Around here it tends to get unfairly categorized as yet another "Thrill Park".... but I tend to look at it as MK (in particular, but Disney in general) tend to focus heavily on the kids/whole family/tamer style of rides that everyone can enjoy... and in return they don't have as many attractions that may attract those who demand a bit more of an adrenalin rush. Universal on the other hand may not have as many attractions of the tamer side that all the kids can ride, but they do have more attractions that will attract the adrenalin crowd.


Yes, Both are theme parks, but outside of that the similarities end as far as I'm concerned.

This is just totally contradictory. Universal opened in Orlando in order to compete with Disney for the tourist marketplace that Disney created, that's what we are both agreeing on.. I have no idea how you could arrive at the conclusion that that does not mean they opened to compete with Disney. People don't compete for their health, they compete to take market share away from other companies that are in the same industry as them. It's the same reason why every time an Advance Auto Parts opens, soon after, an Autozone is going to open annoyingly close to them. It is to tap into the market that the other is already involved in.

Maybe we are just thinking of the term "Compete" on different levels.

The way I see it is that Prior to Disney, there was not the air route infrastructure, or the Hotel room capacity, or any of the other tourist focused infrastructure within the Central Florida market. The Entire tourism Industry in Central Florida was virtually created because of Disney.

20 years later, Universal comes in and is taking advantage of that Tourism Infrastructure. They are not coming in to compete so much with Disney in a head-to-head type fashion, But are coming into an area that has the needed capacity in place to support the guests that Universal is hoping will Visit their park. It's a lot easier for them to enter the marketplace in Florida than it would be to create a marketplace in another location without the existing hotel, transportation, and tourism support infrastructure in place.

There is a difference between somone moving into a market/area because they want to compete directly with someone else, and someone moving into a market that someone else is already in because they both are looking for similar conditions to support their business.


Without a doubt, but that does not mean the other parks do not compete with Universal. That is Disney more directly competing...the same way that Comcast competes with Directv. Comcast is not a satellite company. Dish and Directv are more directly competing, while Cox and Comcast compete more directly with one another as well...however, Cox, Comcast, Dish, and DTV all compete with one another, though their markets are slightly different.

I don't think MSO's are going to be a good analogy here. I work in the Industry and see the Video provider marketplace as something with way too many differences.

It might be better to look at retail as an analogy here.


You basically start with a big barren location. Someone decides to build a mall because of the available space and the surrounding demographics of potential customers. So the Mall gets built.... and the roads and infrastructure to support the mall traffic and suppliers gets upgraded in the process because the mall has generated the need for the surrounding infrastructure to be upgraded.

Now this mall is bringing in a ton of consumers to the area.... so surrounding the mall you start to see other retail locations opening up. Not because they are trying to compete with the mall.... but because the roads, and potential customer traffic, is already in the area making it much more attractive for them to locate in that area.

Sure, This retail store could decide to locate across town nowhere near the mall, but this one small store is not going to have the draw to bring in the same number of potential customers to their distant location.... and even if they somehow where able to locate the customer demand, The road networks would still need to be upgraded dramatically in order to allow the customers to get to their place of business.

In this Analogy, The Mall Created the market in the area, and was the reason the surrounding infrastructure was built up. Other businesses built up around the area to tap into the market that now existed, But they don't plan, or have any desire to compete directly with the mall. That little frozen yogurt shop in the strip mall across the street isn't going to take down the mall.

Disney created the market in Central Florida. The surrounding infrastructure built up to support it. Hotels sprung up to house the tourists traveling to the area. MCO expanded to handle the people flying into Florida. Restaurants, shopping, and other minor attractions showed up to give people other things to do. Universal showed up as well. When Universal was built, Disney was easily done in 4 or 5 days. (3 parks, 2 water parks.... crowds not nearly as crazy). That still left time for most tourists in the area to go to Universal and/or SeaWorld for a day.

When Universal entered the marketplace, There was no need to compete, because most families would vacation for 7 days, and Disney would only demand a most 5 days of that (2 days for MK, 2 for EPCOT, 1 for the new MGM park. ). It was easy for Universal to pull guests visiting the area without taking those guests away from Disney. Since then however, obviously, the situation has changed. Disney and Universal have both expanded, so now there is much more in the way of direct competition happening between the resorts.

I'll still say that MK is untouchable and not in competition from Universal. Even if someone can only visit Central Florida for a single day, the odds are good they will end up at the Magic Kingdom. It's Classic Disney. It's the park the advertising for Disney highlights. It's "Magical". And most importantly... If someone goes to Disney, It's a virtual guarantee that they will at least spend a day at the Magic Kingdom. It's the other parks....MGM, Animal Kingdom, and EPCOT, that are more in danger of suffering from lost visits from those visiting other area attractions.
 
I was on this very website....back in the day, when there was only Universal Studios on one part of I-4, and MK, Epcot and MGM on the other.

Animal Kingdom was just about to be opened IIRC and there was another big project known as Islands of Adventure down the road.

It seems like before then, there wasn't much talk of any competition between Universal and Disney. It was that 1998-2000 era which seemed to change it.

Of course, having a lot more people using the internet fueled it as well.

To me, IOA competed more directly with the "fantasy" of Disney, and the fact that DAK didn't open with much to do...well, to me that's how it all started, this rivalry.

I didn't see that when I went to California, in fact I think there was even package deals for Disneyland and Universal Hollywood (this was in 2005)
 
Ok, The Backlot Tour is ok and there's a chance my son will like Figment, but otherwise I'd be completely fine with all those attractions and areas being removed. I hate being negative and if you're an easily offended Star Wars fan, just don't read the rest of this post. So. My problem is that I HHHHAAAATTTTEEEE STAR WARS! I hate it so much I feel WDW will be sullied by the pure existence of a Star Wars land. AAAARRRRGH!! Sulky sulky sulk sulk. Grump grump.

Oh and I'm not happy about the Avatar land either.

Whining completed.

Sent from my iPad using DISBoards

I HAAATED Star Wars too. And then I married a huge Star Wars fan and gave birth to three Star Wars fans. I can tell you that an expanded Star Wars is the only thing that would get DH and preteen DS excited about WDW again. They've actually speculated about what kinds of cool attractions DHS could add that would have wider appeal, like podracers.

I do agree about Avatar. I have no interest in seeing the movies. DH saw the first and felt it wasn't really very appropriate for children or WDW. Star Wars has been successful for several generations now and there will be more movies coming, but I don't see Avatar's popularity lasting for decades.
 
I agree. If anyone thinks Avatar is going to compete with Harry Potter on the theme park front, they are mistaken. Money invested by Disney in "Avatarland" would be better invested elsewhere.

Totally Agree, I hated Avitar, I fell asleep after half an hour. On the otherhand, still listening to harry potter on audio book over and over again. I love disney so much, but will be willing to split my vacation to see what the harry potter thing is all about. :wave2: (also not a big star wars fan, although the rest of my family are star wars experts, so I think that will def. be a good idea) Also agree with the person who said they should make the indiana jones area a ride, so sick of that show, once you've seen it 4 or 5 times, you just are not that interested in going again. But I think it would make a really great ride.
 




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