Boundaries

[Christine]

I think this is great advice if you're talking about a social circle type situation, like coworkers or just friends. It's not exactly the same when you're talking about family. Generally you're not concerned about being the popular or most liked in that situation.

Except I use my advice with my family! I just use the term "popular" loosely. If you ensure that you put some guiderails in with certain family members, I assure you that your familial popularity will decrease in some instances.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Except I use my advice with my family! I just use the term "popular" loosely. If you ensure that you put some guiderails in with certain family members, I assure you that your familial popularity will decrease in some instances.

I'm sure you do use it with your family but if you're having to ask strangers on the internet on how to set boundaries and what you do if they are crossed chances are you are far beyond the point some of the things mentioned.

IDK I guess what you said just read to me light friend or coworker stuff not necessarily the intricacies of a family dynamic where you're running into issues establishing and maintain boundaries.

And yes of course you may be perceived differently in family situations once boundaries are up and maintained but you're usually, just naturally, more concerned about your position on a totem pole in a friend or coworker circle than you are with your family, different things going on there.

It would help to know more of what the OP is experiencing though.

 

[Christine]

I'm sure you do use it with your family but if you're having to ask strangers on the internet on how to set boundaries and what you do if they are crossed chances are you are far beyond the point some of the things mentioned.

IDK I guess what you said just read to me light friend or coworker stuff not necessarily the intricacies of a family dynamic where you're running into issues establishing and maintain boundaries.

And yes of course you may be perceived differently in family situations once boundaries are up and maintained but you're usually, just naturally, more concerned about your position on a totem pole in a friend or coworker circle than you are with your family, different things going on there.

It would help to know more of what the OP is experiencing though.

Yep, specifics would help me to give a much less generalized answer. But, at it's core, it's really about just saying no. And many people really struggle with it. I actually find the whole thing sort of interesting and when I watch it either in a family dynamic or a social dynamic, it all comes down to how the person (who is having their boundaries violated) feels about how they will be perceived by saying "no, I won't do that" or "no, you won't do that" etc. There are many folks who just can't do it. As a whole, they are usually very nice people overall who dislike letting people down.

For a coworker situation--but it extends to his family dynamics also--I work with a guy who really is the nicest but people run over him too much. Between the two of us, he complains so much about it and he's so angry and I tell him "JUST TELL THEM NO....they cannot do XX." He can't do it. He really hates the fact that people might not like him afterward. We had a Myers-Briggs course last year and he was a very high "F" in his 4-letter MB description. Edited to add: He wants to hire me as his deputy to do the mean stuff.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Yep, specifics would help me to give a much less generalized answer. But, at it's core, it's really about just saying no. And many people really struggle with it. I actually find the whole thing sort of interesting and when I watch it either in a family dynamic or a social dynamic, it all comes down to how the person (who is having their boundaries violated) feels about how they will be perceived by saying "no, I won't do that" or "no, you won't do that" etc. There are many folks who just can't do it. As a whole, they are usually very nice people overall who dislike letting people down.

For a coworker situation--but it extends to his family dynamics also--I work with a guy who really is the nicest but people run over him too much. Between the two of us, he complains so much about it and he's so angry and I tell him "JUST TELL THEM NO....they cannot do XX." He can't do it. He really hates the fact that people might not like him afterward. We had a Myers-Briggs course last year and he was a very high "F" in his 4-letter MB description. Edited to add: He wants to hire me as his deputy to do the mean stuff.

"No" as a complete sentence is at the heart of a lot of a lot of things 100% but how you approach that, what situations you use it in, how you say it, and all sorts of other things differ between different social groups. That's more what I was getting at. I was never one to cave to peer pressure with friends, wasn't how I was, isn't how I am now. But like it or not how I can tell my friends nope not going to do that is just different than my family because with my family that nope may mean I have no contact with my cousins, aunts, uncles, parents, grandparents and more not just a friend group.

If it were as simple as how you put it "Maybe I have a considerate family and friend network but I doubt I'm that lucky." you wouldn't have as many stories as people can tell nor as many estrangements because no matter what family is often just a different sort of animal to deal with.

The phrase "blood thicker than water" (even though it's an inaccurate representation of the origins of the phrase) alter a lot of the interactions with family as that tends to be what is used to create situations where you have crossing of boundaries.

Your coworker situation is exactly what I was getting at. Yes people can care about that people don't like them afterwards but it's much more of a primary driver in our behaviors and tolerances when you're talking about friend groups. I def. wouldn't sign up for that deputy position just to be the baddie of the workplace, no would be my answer

 

[tzolkin]

. For repeat offenders in my life, my preference is to eliminate the opportunity to cross the boundaries I've set. That sometimes has involved going no contact, both temporarily, and in one case (so far), permanently.

This is definitely something worth thinking about in depth before choosing when and how to set a boundary. You have to be prepared to follow through, and understand that upholding the boundary may cost you the relationship (even if just for a period of time).

We had to go No Contact with my MIL. We did not want our children exposed to her abusive manipulation and guilt tactics so the only way to accomplish that during various periods of time was to not allow her to see or speak to us. There have been different periods with different levels of contact over the years (including a full 8 years of absolutely no contact with me and the children), but we have recently resumed in-person contact again. We finally felt comfortable giving her another chance because she had demonstrated some change to her behavior in her interactions with my spouse and also because the kids are now grown.

Also remember you can only change YOU. So accept it, walk away, or find a way to deal with it yourself. You won't convince or change anyone else's behaviors, particularly if they aren't already on the same page...or even in the same book.

While it’s true that you can only change yourself, that doesn’t mean there is no point in addressing an issue with the other person in the hope that they may change. People modify their behavior after someone else has brought it to their attention all the time.

I do think that you have to be willing to walk away if the person does not make the choice to change once you have given them the opportunity.

 

[nw6675]

This is definitely something worth thinking about in depth before choosing when and how to set a boundary. You have to be prepared to follow through, and understand that upholding the boundary may cost you the relationship (even if just for a period of time).

We had to go No Contact with my MIL. We did not want our children exposed to her abusive manipulation and guilt tactics so the only way to accomplish that during various periods of time was to not allow her to see or speak to us. There have been different periods with different levels of contact over the years (including a full 8 years of absolutely no contact with me and the children), but we have recently resumed in-person contact again. We finally felt comfortable giving her another chance because she had demonstrated some change to her behavior in her interactions with my spouse and also because the kids are now grown.


While it’s true that you can only change yourself, that doesn’t mean there is no point in addressing an issue with the other person in the hope that they may change. People modify their behavior after someone else has brought it to their attention all the time.

I do think that you have to be willing to walk away if the person does not make the choice to change once you have given them the opportunity.

My point being that you aren't the one changing someone else. They have to find it in themselves to do it whether you point it out or not. I'm not suggesting not addressing something.

 

[Threehearts]

I've unfortunately had too much experience with having to set boundaries with family. Here's a straightforward process for setting boundaries using an example from my life.

1. Clearly figure out what the concrete problem is and who is causing it. "Melba is annoying" is too wishy-washy. You have to clearly figure out something concrete that Melba does that's annoying that you wish to not deal with anymore. In my case, it was my mom complaining all the time about my dad on the phone.

2. Decide what the clear and unambiguous consequence is. Mine was that I would hang up on my mom if she complained about my dad.

3. Decide if it makes sense to warn the person about the consequence. In some cases, it's not safe to warn the person, or would cause more problems than it solves. In my case, I decided to tell my mom that if she complained about my dad on the phone again I'd immediately hang up. When I decided not to invite my aunt over to my home anymore because of her horrible guest behavior, I didn't tell my aunt because having a conversation with her about it would have led to unnecessary drama. I instead, found ways not to invite her over such as meeting her somewhere instead.

4. Follow through with the consequence without discussion or apology every time. This is the hardest part because a lot of people don't want to appear mean or feel guilty. If you do those things the person who the boundary is meant for will start dismantling the boundary piece by piece, undoing all of your hard work and putting you in a weaker position than before because now you have shown that person that you're a pushover. Remember: "No" is a complete sentence.

5. Be prepared for pushback but stand firm. My mom was very upset when I told her my boundary and tried to make me feel guilty and got mad at me. It was hard sometimes but I stood firm. When I decided to ban my aunt from my house my parents found out when Thanksgiving rolled around and my aunt wasn't invited. I have the only home suitable for hosting holiday meals. They were very upset and told me many times that I couldn't not invite her because she's family and you don't reject blood. I replied that I couldn't deal with her awful behavior in my home anymore and that they were welcome to find an alternate location. When they realized that I wasn't budging they finally dropped it.

6. Be willing to live with whatever consequences occur even if you don't like them. It worked out with my mom because my mom finally gave in. She's a talker so she didn't want to stop talking to me on the phone. With some parents, it could have ended up with the parent distancing themself from their child.

I hope this helps.

I believe that you have illustrated very clearly how to set boundaries. It's not an easy thing to do, especially if you have caved after setting the boundaries. People will in many cases treat you the way you let them treat you. It's a hard thing to break.

 

[Turn the Page]

I have come to realize my mother is a very toxic person. She is a huge score keeper and has a very inappropriate relationship with DD17. She has said that she doesn't think of DD as granddaughter she thinks of her as one of her girlfirends and treats her as such. As in, being an ally against DH and I and undermining our rules and limits.

We tried family counseling for almost a year, individual counseling for DD which I sometimes joined for anther year to no avail. I have not spoken to my mother in a year and while this isn't what I want, my life is so much less stressful and happier without her in it.

I would be willing to try counseling again but if she isn't in a state of mind to accept her part in the situation and be willing to make changes then there is nothing I can do and it took a long time for me to realize that.

 

[DonaldnDaisy5]

Thank you for the replies. I am just feeling super frustrated by a situation with my inlaws and my dh doesn't seem to think it's a problem. Basically, we have a boat. It has been used and stored at the family cabin since it was purchased. No one has ever offered money towards it, including gas money when other children are being taken skiing and tubing.

It needed a repair. Dh was going to do it himself, his parents found a marina and called to inquire about the cost of repair. Fil took boat to marina and gave his contact information. He was called and told more was wrong than originally thought and it would be x to repair damage. It would w double to replace damaged part. FIL made the decision to have it replaced without consulting us, saying they would be paying for it.

Problem it's our boat. I don't want them paying for repairs to our boat. FIL is the type to act like by paying for boat repair he is now part owner. Dh is not comfortable with having them pay for it and is arguing with them about paying for it. He is just fine that this was handled this way. I am livid with the whole situation but have avoided speaking about it for about a week due to a family event this weekend

 

[VandVsmama]

Thank you for the replies. I am just feeling super frustrated by a situation with my inlaws and my dh doesn't seem to think it's a problem. Basically, we have a boat. It has been used and stored at the family cabin since it was purchased. No one has ever offered money towards it, including gas money when other children are being taken skiing and tubing.

It needed a repair. Dh was going to do it himself, his parents found a marina and called to inquire about the cost of repair. Fil took boat to marina and gave his contact information. He was called and told more was wrong than originally thought and it would be x to repair damage. It would w double to replace damaged part. FIL made the decision to have it replaced without consulting us, saying they would be paying for it.

Problem it's our boat. I don't want them paying for repairs to our boat. FIL is the type to act like by paying for boat repair he is now part owner. Dh is not comfortable with having them pay for it and is arguing with them about paying for it. He is just fine that this was handled this way. I am livid with the whole situation but have avoided speaking about it for about a week due to a family event this weekend

This is actually a DH/spouse problem, not a problem with your ILs.

 

[DonaldnDaisy5]

Yes it has become one

 

[Dan Murphy]

Dh is not comfortable with having them pay for it and is arguing with them about paying for it. He is just fine that this was handled this way.

He is arguing about it with them, and he is just fine with it? Sounds like to opposing view points.

 

[DonaldnDaisy5]

He is arguing about it with them, and he is just fine with it? Sounds like to opposing view points.

He's arguing that they will pay for it. But is completely fine with them taking the boat in and making decisions about which repair should be done.

 

[Travel60]

Ummm....you complain in one paragraph that no one offers to help pay for anything even when it is used for others' fun. Then you complain that FIL wants to pay to fix something. And you keep the boat at the family cabin which (I guess) belongs to in-laws.

I think there's underlying issues and this is just a proxy. Maybe a family meeting is in order - discuss costs of maintaining cabin, costs of maintaining boat, what it would cost to store boat somewhere else, insurance ramifications, and use of all the above.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Thank you for the replies. I am just feeling super frustrated by a situation with my inlaws and my dh doesn't seem to think it's a problem. Basically, we have a boat. It has been used and stored at the family cabin since it was purchased. No one has ever offered money towards it, including gas money when other children are being taken skiing and tubing.

It needed a repair. Dh was going to do it himself, his parents found a marina and called to inquire about the cost of repair. Fil took boat to marina and gave his contact information. He was called and told more was wrong than originally thought and it would be x to repair damage. It would w double to replace damaged part. FIL made the decision to have it replaced without consulting us, saying they would be paying for it.

Problem it's our boat. I don't want them paying for repairs to our boat. FIL is the type to act like by paying for boat repair he is now part owner. Dh is not comfortable with having them pay for it and is arguing with them about paying for it. He is just fine that this was handled this way. I am livid with the whole situation but have avoided speaking about it for about a week due to a family event this weekend

This is still a boundary issue but one that originates with your husband and would appear to me at least one that he has issues with his parents on. It would appear he is okay with a looser boundary with his parents in the way that he's fine with them taking charge but also wants that quasi adult maturity with paying for it himself.

The issue I would see with boundaries directly related to your in-laws is the financial contribution=part ownership because that is not defacto the case. That would be providing money with strings and would not be appropriate in the least anyhow given the money wasn't asked for in the first place.

IMO it's fine if they opted to look up a marina and just presented it to you as an option but the rest was intruding.

But keep in mind it needs to have been stated that this was not a type of relationship you wanted as the in-laws as they may have been just keeping with the status quo dynamic with their son as they always had been.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Ummm....you complain in one paragraph that no one offers to help pay for anything even when it is used for others' fun. Then you complain that FIL wants to pay to fix something. And you keep the boat at the family cabin which (I guess) belongs to in-laws.

I agree it's hard to have it both ways but I do think there's a difference in contributing because you're also using property (cabin, boat, whatever) and thinking that once you do contribute you're now an owner of said property. Most of us want to help out in some way if we're using someone else's property, but most of us also don't think because we did we're now owners of it. That's how you get into messy family stuff because so and so wants to use the boat this weekend and because last time it had an issue with it they paid so now they should get to use it when they want and so and on. Happens all the time and why some people end up shutting off access to their stuff if it gets out of hand.

 

[VandVsmama]

There’s also a simple solution: get rid of the boat. Then no more arguing about who’s going to pay for repairs.

 

[_19disnA]

Now that the situation is clearer seems you need to have a meeting with all of the family members who use the cabin. Who owns the cabin and who pays for (or shares) recurring costs such as utilities/taxes/insurance/etc.? Is there a mortgage and who pays for that? How are the costs of repairs/upkeep for the cabin handled? Do family members stay for free or has that ever been discussed? Seems like the boat needs to be included in the bigger picture to get everyone on the same page about how costs of the vacation property are shared/allocated.