Boulder Ridge/Copper Creek questions

[Lakegirl]

It will be very interesting to see how it all plays out with the dues.

 

[tjkraz]

This is what I am wondering and concerned about. Thinking of selling my VWL (BR) contract.

To put things in perspective VWL/BR has about 2 million points. Thus a dues increase of ten cents per point--or $20 per year to an owner of 200 points--brings in $200,000 of added revenue to cover operating costs.

The primary additions to VWL which come to mind are expanded pool (higher maintenance + presumably lifeguards), Community Hall, sports courts and grills. Operating costs and maintenance of these amenities will be shared by BOTH DVC condo associations and the hotel itself. With Disney paying for construction, I really don't see these additions as adding any massive financial burden to owners.

5-6 years ago Saratoga Springs added a second feature pool which similarly increased staffing and maintenance costs. The impact on dues was basically undetectable.

Other resort profit centers like restaurants, marina & gift shops are owned and operated by Disney with no impact on member dues.

 

[tjkraz]

What it means is that Disney makes more money sooner selling DVC contracts instead of renting rooms for cash.

Bill

At $171 per point, that's pretty obvious.

But both businesses play a role in Disney financials. Hotel rooms are far more profitable in the long run. But Disney must work harder to fill those rooms on a nightly basis (advertising, etc.)

Meanwhile, DVC provides guaranteed repeat business and a large cash influx, but not all consumers are candidates for ownership. DVC sells at a very modest pace compared to hotel guest volume.

As long as there is a market for DVC points, Disney will continue building. And each of those new property decisions will take into consideration whether it's cheaper to convert or add to some existing asset vs. building anew. Meanwhile, many DVC buyers are people who formerly stayed in on-site hotels so it really shouldn't come as any surprise that some business has shifted away from the hotels. It's unavoidable that DVC would cannibalize hotel business.

 

[alldiz]

Wow $171 per point!!!! Is this for all resorts?
I feel blessed to have bought in 2006 resale WL 88pp. Added on direct 2x 50 points but like at 105? PP
This was after our 1st stay at WL I realized quick I needed a better way to stay that felt "cheaper" LOL.
Kerri

At $171 per point, that's pretty obvious.

But both businesses play a role in Disney financials. Hotel rooms are far more profitable in the long run. But Disney must work harder to fill those rooms on a nightly basis (advertising, etc.)

Meanwhile, DVC provides guaranteed repeat business and a large cash influx, but not all consumers are candidates for ownership. DVC sells at a very modest pace compared to hotel guest volume.

As long as there is a market for DVC points, Disney will continue building. And each of those new property decisions will take into consideration whether it's cheaper to convert or add to some existing asset vs. building anew. Meanwhile, many DVC buyers are people who formerly stayed in on-site hotels so it really shouldn't come as any surprise that some business has shifted away from the hotels. It's unavoidable that DVC would cannibalize hotel business.

 

[Granny]

To put things in perspective VWL/BR has about 2 million points. Thus a dues increase of ten cents per point--or $20 per year to an owner of 200 points--brings in $200,000 of added revenue to cover operating costs.

The primary additions to VWL which come to mind are expanded pool (higher maintenance + presumably lifeguards), Community Hall, sports courts and grills. Operating costs and maintenance of these amenities will be shared by BOTH DVC condo associations and the hotel itself. With Disney paying for construction, I really don't see these additions as adding any massive financial burden to owners.

5-6 years ago Saratoga Springs added a second feature pool which similarly increased staffing and maintenance costs. The impact on dues was basically undetectable.

Other resort profit centers like restaurants, marina & gift shops are owned and operated by Disney with no impact on member dues.

Tim...this is pretty much my take as well (much less educated than yours). I will add that on existing shared services (front desk, main pool, etc) there should actually be a decrease in percentage kicked in by VWL since there will be more units splitting all the costs. So I'm hoping that the overall effect will not be too bad for VWL, though I don't know that it will be in the "undetectable" category as there just aren't as many total rooms/villas at WL/VWL/CCV as Saratoga Springs to absorb additional costs.

 

[bobbiwoz]

This year staying at VWL did not offer the basic amenity of a pool. Was that figured in the maintenance fees somehow?

 

[Lakegirl]

This year staying at VWL did not offer the basic amenity of a pool. Was that figured in the maintenance fees somehow?

Very good question!!

 

[Dean]

I doubt the addition will add to dues costs on a per point basis and it actually might help some since the new portion will almost certainly have a lot more points to spread the costs over.

 

[tjkraz]

Tim...this is pretty much my take as well (much less educated than yours). I will add that on existing shared services (front desk, main pool, etc) there should actually be a decrease in percentage kicked in by VWL since there will be more units splitting all the costs.

Remember Disney is currently paying a large portion of shared costs due to the hotel rooms. That share will decrease with the debut of Copper Creek.

Right now, it's probably in the neighborhood of 70% of shared expenses paid by Disney for the 700+ hotel rooms and 30% DVC for villas. When Copper Creek opens, it may be closer to this:

Boulder Ridge: 30%
Copper Creek: 35%
Hotel: 35%

(Ballpark only, of course.)

Bottom line is I don't necessarily see VWL/Boulder Ridge going down. The cost shifting that will occur is largely between hotel and the new CC condo association.

That said, whatever expenses are ADDED as a result of current construction (expanded pool & other amenities) will also be shared by these three entities.

So I'm hoping that the overall effect will not be too bad for VWL, though I don't know that it will be in the "undetectable" category as there just aren't as many total rooms/villas at WL/VWL/CCV as Saratoga Springs to absorb additional costs.

Agree...SSR is larger. And there are so many moving pieces that any comparison is inherently flawed. SSR could have benefitted from favorable changes to taxes, reserves or other operating costs that year.

But the things they are adding to Wilderness Lodge are not expensive to operate or maintain. Upkeep on a BBQ pavilion and basketball court may be (nearly) absorbed into the current maintenance budget. And they're trading one pool for another. The new pool is larger, but we aren't talking Stormalong Bay here.

This year staying at VWL did not offer the basic amenity of a pool. Was that figured in the maintenance fees somehow?

Wilderness Lodge always had a pool available to guests.

But any reduction in expenses prompted by the closing of Hidden Springs would have been reflected in dues. Wouldn't expect it to be significant, though. Resort probably has same staff maintaining both pool areas. No lifeguards were on duty. Savings would mostly be utilities, pool chemicals, modest dollars for furniture replacement and repairs.

 

[Anna114]

That's good!! Haven't looked at bill yet I'm on monthly autopay
Thanks
Kerri

Auto pay..... best thing ever! I always hated that bill right after Christmas.