Bought the lens. Now, any fast advice for dark ride captures?

[DoleWhipDVC]

So father's day was nice to me. I've got a new Canon 50mm f/1.8 I guess I'm a good dad (just not good enough to deserve the f/1.4) Obviously it will be going along to the World in August, and I'm going to try my hand at dark ride captures. Any quick pointers that anyone cares to share (initial settings, scenes that tend to result in good captures, etc..) would be greatly appreciated. I probably won't try for anything major this time around. I'll work on the slower moving stuff like Mansion or the London scene on Pan where I have room to fire off several shots. I don't think I'm ready for Buzz yet, but who knows? I'll probably get all excited and just start snapping away.....

 

[Experiment_626]

I'll work on the slower moving stuff like Mansion or the London scene on Pan where I have room to fire off several shots. I don't think I'm ready for Buzz yet, but who knows? I'll probably get all excited and just start snapping away.....

Haunted Mansion and Peter Pan's Flight are generally considered to be among the most difficult subjects for on-ride photography. They're just really dark, especially Haunted Mansion. I would guess that Buzz Lightyear is a bit easier in that regard; I don't think it moves that much faster, if at all. Maybe it seems faster when you ride it normally, because you're frantically trying to hit targets that will go out of range in moments.

Scott

 

[ChiSoxKeith]

Congrats on the 50mm f/1.8!

I walked around with the 50mm f/1.4 the last time I was at WDW. Focussing at f/1.8 can be tricky because of the depth of field. I actually left the 50mm on my camera for most of the time just to see what it could do. It was an interesting experience.

I tried shooting the Finding Nemo musical. I couldn't get anything good for that show. Got some good shots at Festival of the Lion King and Country bear jamboree.

 

[zackiedawg]

As others mentioned, you've actually listed ironically two of the HARDEST dark rides to get shots in! Generally, Buzz isn't too bad because it is well lit inside. Also, Pirates is in between - a little difficult, but better than HM or Pan because the scenes are a little better lit. Spaceship Earth is in between as well, similar to Pirates, with a few better lit scenes.

In general, you're going to need wide open, F1.8. And you probably won't get away with any less than ISO3200 in POTC, Spaceship Earth, Toy Story, American Adventure, etc. You might get away with ISO1600 in Buzz, Finding Nemo, Lion King. Haunted Mansion and Peter Pan will likely require ISO6400, though maybe ISO3200 and some post processing to brighten later might squeak by.

I find using spot focus to be most helpful, and always look for contrasty well defined edges between light and dark, or a subject that is well lit but has good definition, shadow, or dark color next to light - something for the camera's focus system to find to focus on. If all else fails, manual focus will get you there, but that tends to take a little more effort or skill if you're not a regular manual focuser. I generally keep metering on centerweight - spot varies too widely in dark rides with such extreme contrast between light and dark, and multimetering/matrix too often blows out the lighted areas of the scenes. Also, you may need to dial in some -EV, and go for slight underexposure, as the lights on the scenes/subjects tend to be extremely bright locally, but surrounded by deep darkness...blown highlights are common. If you shoot RAW, you can adjust for white balance after the fact...if you shoot JPG, you may want to either manually adjust WB temperature towards cool a bit, use 'incandescent' or 'tungsten' presets, or take a manual reading with a grey card or white balance cap.

Hope that helps!

 

[mom2rtk]

Everyone has a different approach for this. Some say just go wide open on the aperture. I prefer to use shutter priority and set it for what I think is the slowest I can shoot without my unsteady hands blurring the shot. then if it's a little underexposed, I try to lighten it in PP. My best hope is 1/40. So I'll usuappy set that, go with ISO 3200, and hope for the best.

I had my 2.8 on my camera for this trip through, so I went with ISO 6400 on these. But these 2 scenes, especially th bride, are some of the brighter ones in HM and are mostly likely to yield success.


mk1pmhmheads by mom2rtk, on Flickr


mk1pmhmbride by mom2rtk, on Flickr

 

[bronzebrunette78]

Wow, those are some GREAT shots from HM! As a relatively new SLR owner myself, I really appreciate this question and the tips you guys provided

 

[ukcatfan]

Everyone has a different approach for this. Some say just go wide open on the aperture. I prefer to use shutter priority and set it for what I think is the slowest I can shoot without my unsteady hands blurring the shot. then if it's a little underexposed, I try to lighten it in PP. My best hope is 1/40. So I'll usuappy set that, go with ISO 3200, and hope for the best.

Maybe you should let others know the focal length you shot at to be able to use that shutter speed. (don't want to steal your thunder )

 

[mom2rtk]

Wow, those are some GREAT shots from HM!

Thanks! I love shooting the dark rides each time we go. I sort of gauge my progress by how I improve on each over time. Peter Pan though..... Man...... I've seen some great ones posted here over time, but definitely not mine!

Maybe you should let others know the focal length you shot at to be able to use that shutter speed. (don't want to steal your thunder )

Yeah...... I saw those were actually 1/50 right after I posted them. But it's the ballpark I "shoot" for........ I had my Canon 17-55 f/2.8 on and shot at 17mm. Apparently I was too lazy to reach in my bag and get out the 30mm f/1.4 I had right there...... which is why I compensated by bumping the ISO to 6400. I also had -2/3 EC dialed in to help me get that shutter speed. You know, it was kind of fun to shoot HM at a wider focal length so I could get all the statues in one shot.

 

[DoleWhipDVC]

Congrats on the 50mm f/1.8!

I walked around with the 50mm f/1.4 the last time I was at WDW. Focussing at f/1.8 can be tricky because of the depth of field. I actually left the 50mm on my camera for most of the time just to see what it could do. It was an interesting experience.

I tried shooting the Finding Nemo musical. I couldn't get anything good for that show. Got some good shots at Festival of the Lion King and Country bear jamboree.

Thanks for the congrats. Since I really couldn't afford the 1.4, I'll be doing what I can with the 1.8. I'll try it out at the locations you mentioned

As others mentioned, you've actually listed ironically two of the HARDEST dark rides to get shots in! Generally, Buzz isn't too bad because it is well lit inside. Also, Pirates is in between - a little difficult, but better than HM or Pan because the scenes are a little better lit. Spaceship Earth is in between as well, similar to Pirates, with a few better lit scenes.

In general, you're going to need wide open, F1.8. And you probably won't get away with any less than ISO3200 in POTC, Spaceship Earth, Toy Story, American Adventure, etc. You might get away with ISO1600 in Buzz, Finding Nemo, Lion King. Haunted Mansion and Peter Pan will likely require ISO6400, though maybe ISO3200 and some post processing to brighten later might squeak by.

I find using spot focus to be most helpful, and always look for contrasty well defined edges between light and dark, or a subject that is well lit but has good definition, shadow, or dark color next to light - something for the camera's focus system to find to focus on. If all else fails, manual focus will get you there, but that tends to take a little more effort or skill if you're not a regular manual focuser. I generally keep metering on centerweight - spot varies too widely in dark rides with such extreme contrast between light and dark, and multimetering/matrix too often blows out the lighted areas of the scenes. Also, you may need to dial in some -EV, and go for slight underexposure, as the lights on the scenes/subjects tend to be extremely bright locally, but surrounded by deep darkness...blown highlights are common. If you shoot RAW, you can adjust for white balance after the fact...if you shoot JPG, you may want to either manually adjust WB temperature towards cool a bit, use 'incandescent' or 'tungsten' presets, or take a manual reading with a grey card or white balance cap.

Hope that helps!

Yeah, as I've said before on the Disboards, I'm not the brightest photographer on here, I'm still in infancy stage in my opinion. It figures I would plan to shoot the hardest rides first! MY 40D goes up to 3200 in the "custom" setting for ISO, that's as good as I'll be able to do. The spot metering you mentioned is something I'll try. I was just watching a tutorial on line about it (still trying to understand the application of that feature). White balance adjust is easy on the 40D - I'll set that as well with no problem. I can dial in some negative exposure too.... boy, that's a lot to think about while I'm standing in line. Luckily I'll be there in August when the lines are longer - more time to think about the set-up! Thanks for the tips as always. You guys are the best

 

[mom2rtk]

I bet you'll find some things you can shoot with the 1.8 at 3200. Pirates has a number of scenes that are fairly well lit. And I bet you can get the bride on HM. She glows enough to make focusing fairly easy. The biggest problem I have in HM and PP is finding something in the darker scenes for it to lock focus on. I'm sure manual focus would help, but I'm not practiced on that, and doubt that learning IN the ride would be successful either!

 

[DoleWhipDVC]

Everyone has a different approach for this. Some say just go wide open on the aperture. I prefer to use shutter priority and set it for what I think is the slowest I can shoot without my unsteady hands blurring the shot. then if it's a little underexposed, I try to lighten it in PP. My best hope is 1/40. So I'll usuappy set that, go with ISO 3200, and hope for the best.

Thanks for responding. I love your work. As I said in my last response, I can only get to 3200 for my ISO setting, so I'll shoot wide open at 1.8 with that setting. I've read that a good rule of thumb for handheld shots is nothing more than one over your focal length. So for a 50mm, you shouldn't try to do more that 1/50th of a second on the shutter speed. Has that been your experience or is that just something that is said out there? If it's true, I think I could try ISO 3200, f/1.8, 1/50 or even slightly longer for shutter speed (I tend to have fairly steady hands), and then make those adjustments Zackiedawg suggested. In your opinion, would that put me in the ballpark at Mansion or Pirates?

 

[mom2rtk]

Thanks for responding. I love your work. As I said in my last response, I can only get to 3200 for my ISO setting, so I'll shoot wide open at 1.8 with that setting. I've read that a good rule of thumb for handheld shots is nothing more than one over your focal length. So for a 50mm, you shouldn't try to do more that 1/50th of a second on the shutter speed. Has that been your experience or is that just something that is said out there? If it's true, I think I could try ISO 3200, f/1.8, 1/50 or even slightly longer for shutter speed (I tend to have fairly steady hands), and then make those adjustments Zackiedawg suggested. In your opinion, would that put me in the ballpark at Mansion or Pirates?

Many thanks!

I don't shoot full manual, especially in a dark ride with some scenes more brightly lit than the others. That leaves me with 2 options: 1) go aperture priority with the lens wide open letting the camera choose the best shutter speed or 2) set the shutter speed and let the camera fill in the right aperture.

I've tried both and am now most comfortable with option 2. Any shot that ends up with too slow a shutter speed (and shows camera shake) is unusable. Nothing you do in post can save it. So I'd rather choose the lowest shutter speed I think I can handhold and have a decent chance of having it be sharp. The camera might max out the aperture or it might not. If it doesn't need to go wide open, then all the better since the depth of field is so shallow wide open anyway.

Using the inverse of the focal length as a bottom line for shutter speed is a great rule of thumb. Sometimes I push the rule a little though. Mostly I just sort of mess around. You might find you can cheat that a little, so you'll have to just experiment.

Regardless of which way you go, I would 1) be sure to shoot in RAW giving you the most flexibility to lighten up the photo in post if needed and 2) purposely underexpose just a bit by dialing in some negative exposure compensation (knowing you can bring this back up in post if needed).

Do be sure to get out and practice with the lens before you go so you become familiar with the depth of field at 1.8 and know what you're dealing with.

I'm sure you'll come back with some great shots and hope you'll post them here when you do!

 

[DoleWhipDVC]

So here's a quick follow-up question to the advice I've gotten. Why would I set my exposure compensation to a negative setting when I also am setting my ISO way up? Couldn't I just set the ISO lower and then not have to drop the EV down? It seems you're just moving things in opposite directions by doing both when one adjustment would do. While I do get the reason for cranking up the ISO, maybe I'm not understanding the reason for dropping the EV

 

[Frantasmic]

Sample nifty 50 shots with Canon XSi:


Disney Part 2 234 by msf61, on Flickr


Disney Part 2 198 by msf61, on Flickr

I didn't have my ISO turned up as much, so the pictures were darker. But, my main advice is to not expect too much from this lens. It is a great lens for the price and can get some good pictures. But, focusing and ISO issues on your more basic dslrs make getting a really good picture difficult, even if processing in RAW, etc.

 

[mom2rtk]

So here's a quick follow-up question to the advice I've gotten. Why would I set my exposure compensation to a negative setting when I also am setting my ISO way up? Couldn't I just set the ISO lower and then not have to drop the EV down? It seems you're just moving things in opposite directions by doing both when one adjustment would do. While I do get the reason for cranking up the ISO, maybe I'm not understanding the reason for dropping the EV

We're talking about dark rides, so light is minimal. You want to accomplish the "fastest" shutter speed" possible (in my book BOTH so you can avoid motion blur, and also so you can maybe go a stop down from wide open, where many lenses are a little soft and the depth of field is very shallow).

A higher ISO allows your sensor to be more light sensitive, thus not needing QUITE as slow a shutter speed (or perhaps as wide open an aperture). Dialing down the EC tells your camera you want it slightly underexposed, allowing the same concessions (a slightly faster shutter speed or perhaps a little less than wide open aperture).

The challenge in any dark ride is to get a fast enough shutter speed that you can overcome the fact that 1) you can use a tripod and 2) the ride is moving.

 

[DoleWhipDVC]

Many thanks!

I don't shoot full manual, especially in a dark ride with some scenes more brightly lit than the others. That leaves me with 2 options: 1) go aperture priority with the lens wide open letting the camera choose the best shutter speed or 2) set the shutter speed and let the camera fill in the right aperture.

I've tried both and am now most comfortable with option 2. Any shot that ends up with too slow a shutter speed (and shows camera shake) is unusable. Nothing you do in post can save it. So I'd rather choose the lowest shutter speed I think I can handhold and have a decent chance of having it be sharp. The camera might max out the aperture or it might not. If it doesn't need to go wide open, then all the better since the depth of field is so shallow wide open anyway.

I'm sure you'll come back with some great shots and hope you'll post them here when you do!

I like that way of thinking. I can set the speed and let the camera decide on the aperture. I'll try that on some ride throughs, and the manual settings on others. We're going to be there for 21 nights so I envision LOTS of ride throughs on all of our favorites. As for posting some shots....if I'm not to embarrassed by the results, o.k. Remember, I'm also taking a Tamron 10-24 wide angle for the first time so I have plenty of learning to do this trip!!

 

[DoleWhipDVC]

Sample nifty 50 shots with Canon XSi:

I didn't have my ISO turned up as much, so the pictures were darker. But, my main advice is to not expect too much from this lens. It is a great lens for the price and can get some good pictures. But, focusing and ISO issues on your more basic dslrs make getting a really good picture difficult, even if processing in RAW, etc.

Actually those shots aren't that bad! I hope your outlook of the 50mm capabilities is a bit underestimated. I bought the lens with dark rides in mind (couldn't afford the f/1.4). Hopefully when I lock it onto the Canon 40D it will give me a chance at some decent captures

 

[MarkBarbieri]

There used to be a nice thread on dark rides here, but it appears to be gone now. I tried to find it with search to see if it got merged into another thread, but I couldn't find it. Perhaps someone else can.

 

[ChiSoxKeith]

You can see some 50mm f/1.4 shots over in my flickr feed.

 

[Deus]

Would I be better off with my 35 1.8 or my 85 1.4 on these rides?

D7000 (DX)