Boston Globe Article: WDW trip planning

[UnderTheRialto]

The first timers I know have grumbled about the necessary planning, but upon return glowed about how easy and stress free it was when they were on the vacation. And they have believed FP+ enabled spontaneity.

 

[mesaboy2]

The first timers I know have grumbled about the necessary planning, but upon return glowed about how easy and stress free it was when they were on the vacation. And they have believed FP+ enabled spontaneity.

Without previous trips to compare and contrast with, I wonder how they come to this conclusion?

 

[mshanson3121]

The first timers I know have grumbled about the necessary planning, but upon return glowed about how easy and stress free it was when they were on the vacation. And they have believed FP+ enabled spontaneity.

I definitely think that pre-planning will pay off, and give people an easier trip, for sure. I think probably many people who refuse to go, do realize that deep down, too. They just don't want to have to do any planning, period.

 

[capegirl]

Clearly you must do your 'homework' if you expect to eat at the most popular TS restaurants, and enjoy headliner attractions without waiting in ginormous lines. Next month will be out first FP+ experience. We are staying at SOG, and with a 30 day rolling window, it has been a struggle to wrap our existing ADR's around FP+ to make it work for a party of 9. I find MDE easy to navigate (aside from being glitchy), but my frustration stems from the fact that at 30 days out, major attraction FP+'s were only available in the evening, which lowers our chances of obtain additional FP+'s. So for us, I suppose it's a double edged sword; we will experience our favorite attractions, but we have to make sacrifices in other areas.
I will reserve judgment on FP+ until until I see how it plays out for our family. I am a huge Disney fan, so I am hopeful that on occasion I will be able to look away from my smart phone to experience a little magic.

 

[UnderTheRialto]

Without previous trips to compare and contrast with, I wonder how they come to this conclusion?

I didn't say they compared it to prior trips. And they didn't. But they said they felt they had a lot of freedom with their day with the FPs and ADRs arranged.

 

[Simba's Girl]

I'm not reading the article, sorry-not wasting one of my 5 free views on WDW planning LOL

BUT I will say that the planning part is part of the excitement of heading into vacation

That said, as this thread seems to have derailed abit to MM+...I WILL say that while planning is fun and was necessary when my kiddos were younger, now that they are older we have 2 tweens and 1 teen, I'd rather have just a "rough" idea of plans and have it more flexible than it seems to be getting. There is some stress, not major at all, about deciding which park for FP+ 2 months prior to arrival, dining reservations 6 months + prior to arrival. Then again, on summer vacation when my youngest asks me what we're gonna do today before my morning coffee I can tend to start twitching...sooooo.

 

[mesaboy2]

I didn't say they compared it to prior trips. And they didn't. But they said they felt they had a lot of freedom with their day with the FPs and ADRs arranged.

Imagine the freedom and spontaneity without those things arranged. Can whole sentences be oxymorons?

 

[UnderTheRialto]

Uncertainty stresses people out. See the recent article in the Atlantic. FP+ provides certainty to first time visitors.
I'm not saying it was an improvement for all. It clearly was not.

 

[mesaboy2]

Uncertainty stresses people out. See the recent article in the Atlantic. FP+ provides certainty to first time visitors.
I'm not saying it was an improvement for all. It clearly was not.

Certainty and spontaneity are pretty different concepts last I checked.

 

[greeneave]

that was a well-written article.

well, i booked our restaurants 5 months in advance but we are not doing FP+ and will have to take our chances with the lines. we're going first week of may, so i'm hoping it won't be insane (i was there the week before thanksgiving last year for work and only had 3 hours at magic kingdom, 2 of which were spent waiting in line for pirates of the caribbean and haunted mansion). we are also not a roller coaster family, so there are a lot of lines we just won't have to wait on, anyway.

i suppose i need to get on this magic bands thing. we booked our hotel through expedia and it was impossible for me to link my reservation to my online disney profile, so i guess i'll have to call directly to sort it all out.

EDITED TO ADD: wow, i really didn't realize that things are so planning-intensive! i called to get my expedia reservation and magic bands sorted out and the cast member asked me about my passes. i told him i'd received 9 complimentary park hopper passes and he walked me through linking them to my account and let me know we actually do have fast past plus with them, so i also got to make my FP+ choices, along with everything else.

so now we're all set up!

it does take a good deal of advance planning but it's kind of fun, if you like that sort of thing (which i really do).

this board has been really great in helping me figure out all i need to do before i get there.

 

[Shaden]

The first timers I know have grumbled about the necessary planning, but upon return glowed about how easy and stress free it was when they were on the vacation. And they have believed FP+ enabled spontaneity.

Without previous trips to compare and contrast with, I wonder how they come to this conclusion?

I didn't say they compared it to prior trips. And they didn't. But they said they felt they had a lot of freedom with their day with the FPs and ADRs arranged.

Imagine the freedom and spontaneity without those things arranged. Can whole sentences be oxymorons?

Oh Messa, that was just awesome ... well done sir, well done.

 

[mesaboy2]

Oh Messa, that was just awesome ... well done sir, well done.

This spontaneity concept has come up before recently, but I don't buy it because I don't understand it. I would not mind an explanation that makes sense to me, but I haven't seen one yet. The whole FP+ concept runs almost completely contrary to what I've always thought of as spontaneity.

 

[Shaden]

This spontaneity concept has come up before recently, but I don't buy it because I don't understand it. I would not mind an explanation that makes sense to me, but I haven't seen one yet. The whole FP+ concept runs almost completely contrary to what I've always thought of as spontaneity.

I agree completely. It is against the very definition of spontaneity. Now, its perfectly fine to argue that you enjoyed your trip more because of it, that you enjoyed having a less spontaneous trip, you like not having to make those decisions in the parks or at the resort about how to schedule your day, etc. But you day is, by definition, LESS spontaneous.

 

[mesaboy2]

I agree completely. It is against the very definition of spontaneity. Now, its perfectly fine to argue that you enjoyed your trip more because of it, that you enjoyed having a less spontaneous trip, you like not having to make those decisions in the parks or at the resort about how to schedule your day, etc. But you day is, by definition, LESS spontaneous.

 

[TXAKDisneyFan]

This is an interesting article that appeared in the Boston Globe about planning a WDW vacation. It is obvious that the author is a DisBoard follower and a Disney Fan. I thought it was a well balanced article about what’s needed to plan a WDW vacation. I would recommend it to anyone who was planning a vacation.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/magazine...BIMqxyMM6qJ/story.html?event=event25#comments

For me, however, I found the reader feedback the most interesting part of the whole piece. On these boards, there are an awful lot of mega vacation planners who love being able to reserve their ADR’s and Attractions before they arrive in the parks. But it appeared to me, that most of the readers found the level of planning required for a Disney vacation to be too much.

I know that a lot of people on the boards are happy with the level of planning required for a Disney vacation. But are the comments following this article more indicative of how the general public views a WDW vacation?

At first blush, I think it seems like a WDW requires a lot of planning. But when I think about it, EVERY vacation does (at least for me). Part of the reason I like WDW so much is that there are so many things to do, all in a safe environment. I know that whatever I choose to do, my vacation most likely won't be a disaster; whereas when I go to other places, I need to make sure that I stay in safe areas, etc.

I've mentioned this before on another thread, but there are something like 24 different places to stay on WDW property, and how many in a large city? No matter where I go, I'm going to research places to stay, and it's much easier for me to pick a WDW resort than a hotel in a city. I've heard too many horror stories of people booking what looked like perfectly decent hotels, only to find that they're actually rampant with drug use and other illicit activities. I know that won't happen at a WDW resort - my biggest worries there are that the busses will be a pain or I'll be too far from the pool.

I've also read WDW has something like 240+ places to get food (including everything from popcorn stands to signature restaurants and V&A). How many are in any large city or touristy area? It's much easier for me to choose from the limited number of WDW restaurants than pick from an entire city's worth.

So perhaps it's not necessarily the amount of planning one needs to do for a WDW vacation that bothers people, but that the planning is different from what they're used to. I have friends who plan international vacations, have stacks of guide books, etc (so they obviously aren't averse to planning), but they just wouldn't have the first clue how to plan a WDW vacation. I think MDE, magic bands, FP+, etc, all sounds complicated, but it's just because it's new to most people - in practice, I've found them to be very easy to use.

All that being said, while I appreciate the ability to make ADRs to ensure that we can get into certain restaurants, and to make FP reservations so we can minimize at least a few wait times, I do think that booking restaurants/attractions 180/60 days in advance is excessive. I'd be happy if they changed it to something like 60/45 days for on site guests. But I'm sure Disney has their reasons - 180 day ADRs reward the people who book early, and picking restaurants 6 months in advance probably helps to lock in those guests.

Also, I don't think making ADRs and advance FP+ reservations is absolutely required. Plenty of people have successful vacations without much preplanning. Yes, they most likely won't get into BOG, but that won't break most people's vacations. We've done most of our WDW vacations without making many, if any, ADRs; and we've still enjoyed what we've eaten (and been able to walk up to a few restaurants).

 

[Jennytoon]

This spontaneity concept has come up before recently, but I don't buy it because I don't understand it. I would not mind an explanation that makes sense to me, but I haven't seen one yet. The whole FP+ concept runs almost completely contrary to what I've always thought of as spontaneity.

OK, I'll take a stab at it and suggest that like so many other things, spontaneity is in the eye of the beholder ... and perhaps the wall here is between quantity and quality ... that's not exactly it, but hopefully you'll see what I mean.

Group 1 spends 6 hours in the park with 3 FP planned. They spend a total of 1 hr in transit to / in line for / waiting for FP. In the remaining 5 hours (non-consecutive time), Group 1 makes roughly two spontaneous decisions about what to ride / where to go in each hour. Some of these may have factors associated with general location "I'll spontaneously choose a ride in Tomorrowland because I want to be in the area for an overall park logistics reason that may include FP+", but I think it's still fair to call these decisions spontaneous because those kinds of factors crop up all the time, including with FP- planning.

Group 2 spends 6 hours in the park with no FP planned (we'll say they're there in 1997). To ride the same rides as Group 1, they spend a total of 3 hours in line. Their per hour rate of spontaneous decisions is otherwise similar, except that they only have a total of 6 (as opposed to 10) spontaneous decisions made.

Group 3 spends 6 hours in the park in the FP- era. Because they are riding major headliners, we will assume that all their return times are 1-2 hours in the future (for simplicity, and not an unrealistic assumption). They spend the same 1 hr transit to / in line for / obtaining their FP-. They have the same 10 other spontaneous experiences as Group 1.

I think most people would argue that Group 2 has a completely spontaneous experience, but could also see how the people in Group 2 might have thought that Group 1's experience is more spontaneous as it allows more opportunities for spontaneous decisions even though part of the day is planned.

I think most people would also agree that Group 3 has spontaneously made all their decisions whereas Group 1 has not. For some people this means that Group 3 has unequivocally had a more spontaneous experience, as an external observer. However, I think there are a significant body of people who, as the participant, would say that the Group 1 experience feels more spontaneous to them than the Group 3 experience. These are the people (and I can be one of them so this is not a statement made to be negative) who can't just "Let It Go". While they are waiting out their first FP- window and doing their first set of spontaneous things, they are thinking about and weighing the various options for what FP- to get after they use the first one. This is not a choice. This is the way their brains work. While they are waiting out their second FP- window, they are, at least part of the time and at least partly consciously, planning out what to do after the second FP- is used. For these people, the fact of having the FP+ rides already set allows them to feel the spontaneity that applies to the rest of the decisions, instead of feeling that even when choosing things on the spur of the moment part of their brain is busy making plans, backup plans, and backup plans to the backup plans.

 

[Shaden]

OK, I'll take a stab at it and suggest that like so many other things, spontaneity is in the eye of the beholder ... and perhaps the wall here is between quantity and quality ... that's not exactly it, but hopefully you'll see what I mean.

Group 1 spends 6 hours in the park with 3 FP planned. They spend a total of 1 hr in transit to / in line for / waiting for FP. In the remaining 5 hours (non-consecutive time), Group 1 makes roughly two spontaneous decisions about what to ride / where to go in each hour. Some of these may have factors associated with general location "I'll spontaneously choose a ride in Tomorrowland because I want to be in the area for an overall park logistics reason that may include FP+", but I think it's still fair to call these decisions spontaneous because those kinds of factors crop up all the time, including with FP- planning.

Group 2 spends 6 hours in the park with no FP planned (we'll say they're there in 1997). To ride the same rides as Group 1, they spend a total of 3 hours in line. Their per hour rate of spontaneous decisions is otherwise similar, except that they only have a total of 6 (as opposed to 10) spontaneous decisions made.

Group 3 spends 6 hours in the park in the FP- era. Because they are riding major headliners, we will assume that all their return times are 1-2 hours in the future (for simplicity, and not an unrealistic assumption). They spend the same 1 hr transit to / in line for / obtaining their FP-. They have the same 10 other spontaneous experiences as Group 1.

I think most people would argue that Group 2 has a completely spontaneous experience, but could also see how the people in Group 2 might have thought that Group 1's experience is more spontaneous as it allows more opportunities for spontaneous decisions even though part of the day is planned.

I think most people would also agree that Group 3 has spontaneously made all their decisions whereas Group 1 has not. For some people this means that Group 3 has unequivocally had a more spontaneous experience, as an external observer. However, I think there are a significant body of people who, as the participant, would say that the Group 1 experience feels more spontaneous to them than the Group 3 experience. These are the people (and I can be one of them so this is not a statement made to be negative) who can't just "Let It Go". While they are waiting out their first FP- window and doing their first set of spontaneous things, they are thinking about and weighing the various options for what FP- to get after they use the first one. This is not a choice. This is the way their brains work. While they are waiting out their second FP- window, they are, at least part of the time and at least partly consciously, planning out what to do after the second FP- is used. For these people, the fact of having the FP+ rides already set allows them to feel the spontaneity that applies to the rest of the decisions, instead of feeling that even when choosing things on the spur of the moment part of their brain is busy making plans, backup plans, and backup plans to the backup plans.

I will set aside the absolute made up numbers you have used in your example because you seem to have applied them fairly across the board, though obviously your mileage would vary as those numbers did.
You also pretty much ignore the fact that FP+s must be spread out by an hour each for the first three. Now it might work out nicely, that your fps are scheduled in such a way that you can just tour the parks and stop along your way for your FP+s, but then you might also find yourself criss crossing the park to make your appointments. This was true for FP- though, people just like to overlook it for FP+.

But in the end your example of "I will 'spontaneously' pick a ride in tomorrow land because I have to be there to make my FP+ appointment at 2pm anyway" is a perfect example of why that decision is not spontaneous, nor is their riding of the FP+ attraction. There is some element of spontaneity, but if you are eliminating other options due to something you already have planned the decision isn't really spontaneous. And even if by some stretch of logic you want to argue that it is, that still leaves the 3 FPs themselves which aren't spontaneous, they are the definition of premeditated, non spontaneous.


That doesn't change the -fact- that their day is less spontaneous, we aren't talking about feelings here, we are talking about facts. Like I said, people MAY actually ENJOY this, they might feel better about the rest of their vacation, they might relax more knowing they have those 3 rides locked in via FP+, but that does NOT increase the spontaneity of a trip, it is the exact opposite. These people probably need a better word to describe what they are trying to convey.

You talk about the fact that for some people they may feel more spontaneous because they aren't making other plans, or backup plans etc .... but other people will feel the exact opposite, they will -feel- less spontaneous (even when they have breaks in the day to make spontaneous decisions) because in a few hours they have something planned, etc etc. Set aside those feelings, because they cancel each other out, all things held equal.

FP+ makes your trip less spontaneous if you use it. Period. You might enjoy this, you might feel more relaxed. You might worry less. Your brain might shut off ... or the opposite of those might be true. But your days are less spontaneous, your trip is less spontaneous.

 

[mesaboy2]

OK, I'll take a stab at it and suggest that like so many other things, spontaneity is in the eye of the beholder ... and perhaps the wall here is between quantity and quality ... that's not exactly it, but hopefully you'll see what I mean.

Group 1 spends 6 hours in the park with 3 FP planned. They spend a total of 1 hr in transit to / in line for / waiting for FP. In the remaining 5 hours (non-consecutive time), Group 1 makes roughly two spontaneous decisions about what to ride / where to go in each hour. Some of these may have factors associated with general location "I'll spontaneously choose a ride in Tomorrowland because I want to be in the area for an overall park logistics reason that may include FP+", but I think it's still fair to call these decisions spontaneous because those kinds of factors crop up all the time, including with FP- planning.

Group 2 spends 6 hours in the park with no FP planned (we'll say they're there in 1997). To ride the same rides as Group 1, they spend a total of 3 hours in line. Their per hour rate of spontaneous decisions is otherwise similar, except that they only have a total of 6 (as opposed to 10) spontaneous decisions made.

Group 3 spends 6 hours in the park in the FP- era. Because they are riding major headliners, we will assume that all their return times are 1-2 hours in the future (for simplicity, and not an unrealistic assumption). They spend the same 1 hr transit to / in line for / obtaining their FP-. They have the same 10 other spontaneous experiences as Group 1.

I think most people would argue that Group 2 has a completely spontaneous experience, but could also see how the people in Group 2 might have thought that Group 1's experience is more spontaneous as it allows more opportunities for spontaneous decisions even though part of the day is planned.

I think most people would also agree that Group 3 has spontaneously made all their decisions whereas Group 1 has not. For some people this means that Group 3 has unequivocally had a more spontaneous experience, as an external observer. However, I think there are a significant body of people who, as the participant, would say that the Group 1 experience feels more spontaneous to them than the Group 3 experience. These are the people (and I can be one of them so this is not a statement made to be negative) who can't just "Let It Go". While they are waiting out their first FP- window and doing their first set of spontaneous things, they are thinking about and weighing the various options for what FP- to get after they use the first one. This is not a choice. This is the way their brains work. While they are waiting out their second FP- window, they are, at least part of the time and at least partly consciously, planning out what to do after the second FP- is used. For these people, the fact of having the FP+ rides already set allows them to feel the spontaneity that applies to the rest of the decisions, instead of feeling that even when choosing things on the spur of the moment part of their brain is busy making plans, backup plans, and backup plans to the backup plans.

I'll come back in a while after reading this and answer you, busy for now.

 

[Luckybee]

OK, I'll take a stab at it and suggest that like so many other things, spontaneity is in the eye of the beholder ... and perhaps the wall here is between quantity and quality ... that's not exactly it, but hopefully you'll see what I mean.

Group 1 spends 6 hours in the park with 3 FP planned. They spend a total of 1 hr in transit to / in line for / waiting for FP. In the remaining 5 hours (non-consecutive time), Group 1 makes roughly two spontaneous decisions about what to ride / where to go in each hour. Some of these may have factors associated with general location "I'll spontaneously choose a ride in Tomorrowland because I want to be in the area for an overall park logistics reason that may include FP+", but I think it's still fair to call these decisions spontaneous because those kinds of factors crop up all the time, including with FP- planning.

Group 2 spends 6 hours in the park with no FP planned (we'll say they're there in 1997). To ride the same rides as Group 1, they spend a total of 3 hours in line. Their per hour rate of spontaneous decisions is otherwise similar, except that they only have a total of 6 (as opposed to 10) spontaneous decisions made.

Group 3 spends 6 hours in the park in the FP- era. Because they are riding major headliners, we will assume that all their return times are 1-2 hours in the future (for simplicity, and not an unrealistic assumption). They spend the same 1 hr transit to / in line for / obtaining their FP-. They have the same 10 other spontaneous experiences as Group 1.

I think most people would argue that Group 2 has a completely spontaneous experience, but could also see how the people in Group 2 might have thought that Group 1's experience is more spontaneous as it allows more opportunities for spontaneous decisions even though part of the day is planned.

I think most people would also agree that Group 3 has spontaneously made all their decisions whereas Group 1 has not. For some people this means that Group 3 has unequivocally had a more spontaneous experience, as an external observer. However, I think there are a significant body of people who, as the participant, would say that the Group 1 experience feels more spontaneous to them than the Group 3 experience. These are the people (and I can be one of them so this is not a statement made to be negative) who can't just "Let It Go". While they are waiting out their first FP- window and doing their first set of spontaneous things, they are thinking about and weighing the various options for what FP- to get after they use the first one. This is not a choice. This is the way their brains work. While they are waiting out their second FP- window, they are, at least part of the time and at least partly consciously, planning out what to do after the second FP- is used. For these people, the fact of having the FP+ rides already set allows them to feel the spontaneity that applies to the rest of the decisions, instead of feeling that even when choosing things on the spur of the moment part of their brain is busy making plans, backup plans, and backup plans to the backup plans.

What you missed with group 2 is that in 1997 grp 2 could have spent virtually 0 amount of time in line if they went at a low crowd time and therefore accomplished much more than grp 1 and done so completely spontaneously.

 

[rwdavis2]

A very good article. The writer actually did some research. Whereas the article in Wired was nothng more than a rewrite of Disney PR material.