Borrowing and Replacing a Reservation (Waitlist)

[WilsonFlyer]

I just made a reservation for April at SSR. I have waitlisted stays at both Jambo and Kidani to replace the SSR reservation should they become available. I had to borrow (JUNE UY with Jan 31 banking deadline, that's about to become important) from 2015 to make the reservation.

I will STILL need to borrow from 2015 should one of the waitlists come though, but not as many points as the original/replaced reservation. If a waitlist comes through, will the points that were then not needed go back to my 2015 UY?

I think I know the answer. My assumption would be that the original reservation essentially never happened and I would "get my points back," but is that true?

Sorry. I've just never run across this particular situation and I hate to leave those points out there to essentially "die" if my waitlist comes through. I guess that the borrowed points could be used and I could bank the leftovers from 2014 (essentially doing the same thing because we'll use them next year anyway) but I can't even do that if it happens after January 31.

Thanks!

 

[com_op_2000]

Borrowing and banking are final transactions.
If your WL comes through the unused points will remain in the UY they were borrowed into. They must be used before the end of the current UY and based on your information will expire Jun 1st.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

So the argument that the first transaction that was booked never happened is invalid even though the reservation was replaced?

That stinks. I understand borrowing being a final transaction, but essentially the borrowing never happened should the waitlist come through.

I believe you and understood/understand why you said what you did. I do not think it's right (as in fair).

 

[cvjw]

But the SSR reservation "did" happen - you just booked it. If your waitlist comes thru, the SSR reservation will be replaced with another reservation. Any borrowed points will stay in the current use year once borrowed.

If fewer points are used if the waitlist comes thru, current year points can be released and banked into the 2015 use year. If you are past your banking deadline, they will expire at the end of the 2014 use year.

Given your current situation, I would not waitlist a reservation that is less points than your SSR reservation. If you don't want to stay at SSR, waitlist a reservation that requires at least the same amount of points as your current reservation. That way, you won't forfeit any points.

 

[jerseyduke]

Hello CVJW, my neighbor!

I have to disagree however. The points are borrowed, and that is final. As far as not making the WL...what is the difference?

You can not get those points back into next UY. So, the question is, is it possible to use them at all this year?

If not, the points are gone. Stay at AK if the wait list comes thru. Either way you are "out" the same number of points. Why not stay where you would prefer even if you are "overpaying"?

Otherwise, if the WL would come thru, you are staying at SSR, just not to "waste" points, as opposed to staying at the resort you would rather be at.

Anyway you slice it you are using X points on this vacation. Stay where you would prefer. If ten points get "wasted" because AK comes thru, who cares, you had no way to make those points do anything anyway, so you did not lose anything of value, If there was a way to save them by cancelling the wait list, then I would sing a different tune.

Can you extend a day??????

 

[that's nice]

In regards to the OPs post....

If the wait list does indeed come through for AKL, do the borrowed points automatically get used first leaving the current year's points to be banked? Or do you have to call MS to have them use the borrowed points first, then do the banking as long as you are still in your banking window?

Thanks

Tim

 

[disneynutz]

In regards to the OPs post....

If the wait list does indeed come through for AKL, do the borrowed points automatically get used first leaving the current year's points to be banked? Or do you have to call MS to have them use the borrowed points first, then do the banking as long as you are still in your banking window?

Thanks

Tim

If you only have one contract, banked points are used first, then borrowed, then regular. If you have more than one contract that could be used, the system would let you use the other contracts regular points first and not take the banked or borrowed so you have to be careful.

Bill

 

[that's nice]

If you only have one contract, banked points are used first, then borrowed, then regular. If you have more than one contract that could be used, the system would let you use the other contracts regular points first and not take the banked or borrowed so you have to be careful.

Bill

Thanks Bill.

I thought that was the case.

 

[LisaS]

My assumption would be that the original reservation essentially never happened and I would "get my points back," but is that true?

Borrowing is a final transaction. If you cancel or change your reservation, the borrowed points do not go back to their original UY. That is what they mean by "final transaction".

If a wait list comes through, they first cancel your original reservation and then book the new one. They should use banked and borrowed points first so if the new reservation uses fewer points you should be left with current UY points assuming the new reservation uses all of the banked/borrowed points. If you are within your banking window when this happens you can bank any current UY points to the next UY. If you are past your banking window you cannot.

Sometimes people state "UY only matters if you have to cancel a reservation" but this is another example of why UY matters -- if you set up a wait list that uses fewer points than the one you have already booked, your banking deadline dictates how long you can afford to wait for the WL to come through.

Good luck -- I hope things work out.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

You're right, Lisa. This is indeed a case where UY matters. It's not just important for cancelling reservations, as you said. There is fully a 120 day window every year where this situation could "bite" somebody. That's not insignificant.

I get it. Completely. I was pretty sure of the answer before I asked the question. I've been hanging around this board, and especially the DVC forums for a long time. I really just wanted to have someone to commiserate with because it really is an unavoidable situation sometimes, and if you're ever caught in it, you'll understand a lot better.

Like a lot of us, I have plenty of points, but I don't have any to waste and hate doing so. I don't like leaving things on the table.

As pointed out by a poster a couple of posts above, it's kinda like a cost of doing business thing, and that's probably what I'll do if it doesn't come through by Jan 31. It's really not that many points (studio at SSR in April to same accommodations at AKK or AKL). It's the principle of the thing to me. Personally, I think this fits the rule but not the spirit of the rule, but that's just me and I get that. I don't think this is what the final transaction on borrowing was put into place for.

Hopefully, it will come through before Jan 31 and it won't be an issue. At this point, at least as of this morning; I was only waiting on a Wed to clear at Kidani on a 7 night res anyway.

Thanks folks. I really appreciate it.

-bob

 

[WilsonFlyer]

Nobody asked or cares but just an FYI, this particular case wasn't for lack of planning, at least not on our part. We were going to stay at SSR for a change of scenery.

Last night we learned that my DD9's BFF's family has just booked to go the same week and will be staying at AKJ. It's not that big of a deal if we're not at AK, but they really are BFFs and it would be cool if they could be at the same resort and even better if they were in the same house, hence; the new waitlist as of this morning.

I could see this being a much bigger deal if we had booked a 1BR at SSR while waitlisting a studio at AK thinking one was doing so to save points. I could see where someone that didn't know the system inside and out could really get burned in that situation. If that were me and I didn't know what I know, I would be hot all over if it happened.

 

[LisaS]

I really just wanted to have someone to commiserate with because it really is an unavoidable situation sometimes, and if you're ever caught in it, you'll understand a lot better.

I do get it, unfortunately. Due to various issues we had to cancel every trip we had booked for over a year now. We ended up losing some banked and borrowed points I had used for one of those reservations and it was very painful!

Personally, I think this fits the rule but not the spirit of the rule, but that's just me and I get that. I don't think this is what the final transaction on borrowing was put into place for.

I'm not sure there is a "spirit" to the banking and borrowing rules. Allowing us to bank and borrow points creates a balancing issue for DVC. They have to make sure there are not too many points and not enough rooms to absorb those points within any given time frame. Allowing us to "undo" a banking or borrowing transaction would increase the uncertainty of keeping the system in balance so I think that's why they don't allow it. In addition, it would result in members calling MS and claiming their reasons for wanting to put back borrowed points are just as valid as the reasons given by others who were allowed to "unborrow" points. So I don't think there is a "spirit of the rule" but rather, just a rule that if you borrow points they remain in their new UY.

Hopefully, it will come through before Jan 31 and it won't be an issue. At this point, at least as of this morning; I was only waiting on a Wed to clear at Kidani on a 7 night res anyway.

Thanks folks. I really appreciate it.

-bob

I hope it works out. Don't forget to stalk the online booking site several times a day. As rooms are cancelled they go into the pool first and are scooped up by the wait list process some time later. It often happens that you can fill your own wait list by grabbing room nights as they show up online.

 

[circhead]

I don't know how much of a risk taker you are - but I know it's easier to have a shorter waitlist filled than one for a full week.

Why not book all the nights available where you want to be - Kidani - and cancell those nights at SSR - hold on to the one night at SSR and waitlist it for Kidani. Better chance of 1 night being filled - but face the possibility of a split stay.

Or split the stay - book what is available at Kidani - hold the SSR reservation for the 2nd half and waitlist the 2nd half for Kidani at least you only move once if you have to.

 

[Sandisw]

OP, you could be thinking about waitlists that are set up that require borrowing when there is no reservation booked as a back up.

If you had never booked SSR, but just put in a wait list for AKV, then points would not be borrowed until the wait list filled. If it never fills, then nothing is done and it's like it never happened.

In your case, as you already understand, since you actually booked, you completed borrowing already which is why it can't be undone.

 

[Dean]

Hello CVJW, my neighbor!

I have to disagree however. The points are borrowed, and that is final. As far as not making the WL...what is the difference?

You can not get those points back into next UY. So, the question is, is it possible to use them at all this year?

If not, the points are gone. Stay at AK if the wait list comes thru. Either way you are "out" the same number of points. Why not stay where you would prefer even if you are "overpaying"?

Otherwise, if the WL would come thru, you are staying at SSR, just not to "waste" points, as opposed to staying at the resort you would rather be at.

Anyway you slice it you are using X points on this vacation. Stay where you would prefer. If ten points get "wasted" because AK comes thru, who cares, you had no way to make those points do anything anyway, so you did not lose anything of value, If there was a way to save them by cancelling the wait list, then I would sing a different tune.

Can you extend a day??????

I didn't see anything in the post you quoted that was incorrect. I believe what they are saying, and what I'd point out, is that even though the borrowed points can't be returned, it's likely that current UY points can be freed up and banked if still within the banking window.

Nobody asked or cares but just an FYI, this particular case wasn't for lack of planning, at least not on our part. We were going to stay at SSR for a change of scenery.

Last night we learned that my DD9's BFF's family has just booked to go the same week and will be staying at AKJ. It's not that big of a deal if we're not at AK, but they really are BFFs and it would be cool if they could be at the same resort and even better if they were in the same house, hence; the new waitlist as of this morning.

I could see this being a much bigger deal if we had booked a 1BR at SSR while waitlisting a studio at AK thinking one was doing so to save points. I could see where someone that didn't know the system inside and out could really get burned in that situation. If that were me and I didn't know what I know, I would be hot all over if it happened.

And this is exactly the type of issue that causes me to believe that UY does matter a lot for many if not most members though some more than others. However, for those where it doesn't matter or as much, they have inherently more risk that they cannot reduce. I'd put UY worth an average of about 1 yrs worth of points but more for some than others. A large part of my thought process is it's the unplanned and often unavoidable issues that usually get you.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

I just thought I'd bump this to update you guys.

As it turns out, the waitlist actually came through yesterday at Jambo House... exactly where our friends are staying! How lucky can you get!

I immediately called MS and they banked the 2014 points (only two days to go!) to 2015 without even hesitating. They used the borrowed points "first" and gave me the leftovers back, just as I had hoped.

Sometimes you just get lucky and a plan comes together. I've had mixed results with waitlists over the years but this one worked our perfectly.

Thanks guys!

 

[CarolMN]

I just thought I'd bump this to update you guys.

As it turns out, the waitlist actually came through yesterday at Jambo House... exactly where our friends are staying! How lucky can you get!

I immediately called MS and they banked the 2014 points (only two days to go!) to 2015 without even hesitating. They used the borrowed points "first" and gave me the leftovers back, just as I had hoped.

Sometimes you just get lucky and a plan comes together. I've had mixed results with waitlists over the years but this one worked our perfectly.

Thanks guys!

Happy for you! Have a wonderful trip!

If you want to increase your chances of getting your room close to the other family, ask MS to add a "Traveling with" notation on your reservation. Ask the other family to do the same and hope the pixie dust keeps coming your way.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

Thank you, Carol! I didn't know/think of that. We will do that today!

 

[luckyman_apd]

Happy for you! Have a wonderful trip!

If you want to increase your chances of getting your room close to the other family, ask MS to add a "Traveling with" notation on your reservation. Ask the other family to do the same and hope the pixie dust keeps coming your way.

This has worked well for us. We had a SV studio at BLT when my mother decided she wanted to join us. We found someone to transfer us points, and booked my mother a LV studio. They put us on the same floor with us on the outer C in a standard view, and my mother was directly across the hall in a LV.
The prior year same thing with my dad....except I was able to secure 2 Standard view rooms. That trip we were on the 2nd floor where both the inside and outside of the C were standard. They put my dad across the hall as well. 2 years ago we got 2 studios for us and my inlaws at SSR, while not across from each other....we were very close...within a few doors...so they do well putting you as close as they can.