Born Again Christians Thread-No Bashing please

[caitycaity]

i was married 2 weeks before my 23rd bday. i have been told that is incredibly young, but i am not a bac. i guess it just depends on what you think young is.

it's not something i planned for. it's just how things ended up happening.

 

[JoyG]

No, not that I am aware of anyway. Dh and I married 6 months after I graduated hs and the church had absolutely no influence on that decision. As a matter-of-fact they wanted us to wait till we were older. And before anyone argues that BACs get married young so that they can have sex that was not why w/us either b/c we were bad BACs that had premarital sex. Yes, even BACs commit sins and that was one of ours so that had no bearing on why we got married.

Count us in the "bad BAC" group! We got married early (I was 22) partly b/c we didn't want to continue doing it outside of marriage...

Many of my friends in christian college married early b/c of the sex issue...but that doesn't mean everyone was inexperienced on their wedding night...

I think what is really different in BAC culture is the living together isssue, there would be NO WAY dh or I could have considered living together which is what alot of nonchristian long term daters due before getting married....

I wish we would have waited until the wedding night though...I would have liked to have been a good example for my own children of a virtuous marriage...oh well, maybe I'll just lie and say we waited ...just kidding!

 

[Albertan mom]

I don't think Albertan Mom will be using this explanation to her daughter!

Ya,I will tell her that she will have to find out herself. No, maybe not. ummmm, tell her that there is good apple trees there? Is that a lie? Is there good apple trees there?
I won't shoot (or throw pebbles at) the messenger Rick! Thanks for looking that up for me though!!!

Hey, I see there is new smilies over there, cool! :thewave: :thewave: I didn't know there was that many!

As for the Christians getting married young......As a BAC I will admit- I think that the sex thing is really a reason that many do. Many, not all. My friends and I joke about it all the time. "Its better to marry then to Burn with Desire" (can't remember where that reference is found!)
Then again, many don't marry young, so I don't know! Most BAC marry with the full intention of never getting divorced. So marriage is taken very seriously, and not entered into as lightly as people who think "well, if it doesn't work out, we will divorce"

(Bible college is also frequently labelled as "Bridal College"!!)

 

[chobie]

Ya,I will tell her that she will have to find out herself. No, maybe not. ummmm, tell her that there is good apple trees there? Is that a lie? Is there good apple trees there?
I won't shoot (or throw pebbles at) the messenger Rick! Thanks for looking that up for me though!!!

Hey, I see there is new smilies over there, cool! :thewave: :thewave: I didn't know there was that many!

As for the Christians getting married young......As a BAC I will admit- I think that the sex thing is really a reason that many do. Many, not all. My friends and I joke about it all the time. "Its better to marry then to Burn with Desire" (can't remember where that reference is found!)
Then again, many don't marry young, so I don't know! Most BAC marry with the full intention of never getting divorced. So marriage is taken very seriously, and not entered into as lightly as people who think "well, if it doesn't work out, we will divorce"

(Bible college is also frequently labelled as "Bridal College"!!)

Is bible college where young women go to earn their Mrs degree?

 

[manchurianbrownbear]

I'd be interested to hear which Christian Colleges some of you have attended.

It's taken me years to recover from my freshman year at Bible College !

I'll be stunned if anyone has heard of the school I attended, Pillsbury Baptist Bible College!

 

[Aidensmom]

about accepting Christ but then being a pretty rotten person, I would doubt the sincerity of that person’s acceptance of Christ. Not that we’re perfect after having accepted Him, just that there should be a desire and a change to do good works when the salvation is genuine.

I just wanted to say something about this statement, and I am not trying to single anyone out, or start a debate, and I apogize if it offends anyone, it is just that I have heard this a lot and it really rubs me the wrong way. It is almost like it is the stock Christian answer for this question. This is why it bothers me:

If someone is saved, and accepts Jesus Christ, I do agree they will have a desire to change and do good works. However, they are still sinners, still tempted, and will still sin. At what point do we start doubting someone's salvation, or their acceptance of Christ? When they still wear shorts? When they hide a department store receipt from their spouse? When they get a tattoo? When they have a glass of wine? When they have pre-marital sex? When they get a divorce? When they have an affair? Where are we drawing a line? And if we are drawing a line, we are judging, and that is not our job.

A LOT of Christians backslide at some point, does this mean they were never saved? I don't believe this for a minute. I think sometimes our temptations are even stronger once we are a Christian, Satan wants us to mess up. Some people may have had an addiction, or some emotional problems, etc. that are not going to just disappear once they are saved. These people still have to struggle. Yes, they have God to give them strength, but it is still a struggle. Every single one of us has a sin that we struggle with, people are just more judgemental about some sins than they are about others.

Maybe I feel strongly about this because I have backslidden before, and I have experienced God's great mercy in forgiving me for that, but I do know without a doubt that I had still sincerely accepted Christ.

I am not saying we have a "free pass" to sin (I had never even heard that sentiment till the last few days on the DIS board), just that we still will. And we will be convicted, and we will be forgiven. I am also not saying that there are not people who claim to be Christians who truly are not, but I have no way of knowing who those people are. Only God knows that.

I posed the question to my husband of why does someone who is saved will sin. I knew, that as a man of few words, he would give me a short logical answer, and I like what he said: "Because they made the choice to." That is really all we know.

 

[saucymb]

I just wanted to say something about this statement, and I am not trying to single anyone out, or start a debate, and I apogize if it offends anyone, it is just that I have heard this a lot and it really rubs me the wrong way. It is almost like it is the stock Christian answer for this question. This is why it bothers me:

If someone is saved, and accepts Jesus Christ, I do agree they will have a desire to change and do good works. However, they are still sinners, still tempted, and will still sin. At what point do we start doubting someone's salvation, or their acceptance of Christ? When they still wear shorts? When they hide a department store receipt from their spouse? When they get a tattoo? When they have a glass of wine? When they have pre-marital sex? When they get a divorce? When they have an affair? Where are we drawing a line? And if we are drawing a line, we are judging, and that is not our job.

A LOT of Christians backslide at some point, does this mean they were never saved? I don't believe this for a minute. I think sometimes our temptations are even stronger once we are a Christian, Satan wants us to mess up. Some people may have had an addiction, or some emotional problems, etc. that are not going to just disappear once they are saved. These people still have to struggle. Yes, they have God to give them strength, but it is still a struggle. Every single one of us has a sin that we struggle with, people are just more judgemental about some sins than they are about others.

Maybe I feel strongly about this because I have backslidden before, and I have experienced God's great mercy in forgiving me for that, but I do know without a doubt that I had still sincerely accepted Christ.

I am not saying we have a "free pass" to sin (I had never even heard that sentiment till the last few days on the DIS board), just that we still will. And we will be convicted, and we will be forgiven. I am also not saying that there are not people who claim to be Christians who truly are not, but I have no way of knowing who those people are. Only God knows that.

I posed the question to my husband of why does someone who is saved will sin. I knew, that as a man of few words, he would give me a short logical answer, and I like what he said: "Because they made the choice to." That is really all we know.

I agree to an extent, but there is a difference between sinning and truly repenting from those sins, whether it's on a daily basis or not (the sinning and the repenting)AND someone who is saved, but then continues on in a "life of sin". I think it would be impossible for most Christians to accept Jesus, then choose a sin and continually do it over and over and never repent, but claim that it is simply backsliding. As a Christian, the guilt would kill me. I could not feel close to God.

Let me again stress that I do believe that because of our sinful nature, that we as Christians will continue to sin after salvation. But "living in sin" in a way that makes us indistinguishable from non-Christians would be something that would make me question whether that person (or me, as was the case a few years ago) ever truly was saved.

 

[Aidensmom]

I agree to an extent, but there is a difference between sinning and truly repenting from those sins, whether it's on a daily basis or not (the sinning and the repenting)AND someone who is saved, but then continues on in a "life of sin". I think it would be impossible for most Christians to accept Jesus, then choose a sin and continually do it over and over and never repent, but claim that it is simply backsliding. As a Christian, the guilt would kill me. I could not feel close to God.

Let me again stress that I do believe that because of our sinful nature, that we as Christians will continue to sin after salvation. But "living in sin" in a way that makes us indistinguishable from non-Christians would be something that would make me question whether that person (or me, as was the case a few years ago) ever truly was saved.

What I am trying to say is, how do we define "living in sin?" How can we decide who is truly saved and who is not? An alcholic, for example, can be saved and still have an overwhelming urge to drink. If he goes on a binge, does that mean he is not truly saved? I am not saying they don't feel convicted about their sin, or don't ask forgiveness, just that they may be continuously tempted and sometimes they may stumble, and if we see this person in a drunken stupor we have no right to question their salvation. To bring this to a level many of us can identify with, I think overeating on a regular basis is a sin - you are not taking good care of the body you are given when you do that. How many of us struggle with that on a daily basis? We know we shouldn't, and ask God to help us, but that package of Oreos in the cupboard just tempts us so bad we give in. We may feel bad afterwards, but that doesn't neccessarily mean we aren't going to do it again.

 

[ead79]

I just wanted to say something about this statement, and I am not trying to single anyone out, or start a debate, and I apogize if it offends anyone, it is just that I have heard this a lot and it really rubs me the wrong way. It is almost like it is the stock Christian answer for this question. This is why it bothers me:

If someone is saved, and accepts Jesus Christ, I do agree they will have a desire to change and do good works. However, they are still sinners, still tempted, and will still sin. At what point do we start doubting someone's salvation, or their acceptance of Christ? When they still wear shorts? When they hide a department store receipt from their spouse? When they get a tattoo? When they have a glass of wine? When they have pre-marital sex? When they get a divorce? When they have an affair? Where are we drawing a line? And if we are drawing a line, we are judging, and that is not our job.

A LOT of Christians backslide at some point, does this mean they were never saved? I don't believe this for a minute. I think sometimes our temptations are even stronger once we are a Christian, Satan wants us to mess up. Some people may have had an addiction, or some emotional problems, etc. that are not going to just disappear once they are saved. These people still have to struggle. Yes, they have God to give them strength, but it is still a struggle. Every single one of us has a sin that we struggle with, people are just more judgemental about some sins than they are about others.

Maybe I feel strongly about this because I have backslidden before, and I have experienced God's great mercy in forgiving me for that, but I do know without a doubt that I had still sincerely accepted Christ.

I am not saying we have a "free pass" to sin (I had never even heard that sentiment till the last few days on the DIS board), just that we still will. And we will be convicted, and we will be forgiven. I am also not saying that there are not people who claim to be Christians who truly are not, but I have no way of knowing who those people are. Only God knows that.

I posed the question to my husband of why does someone who is saved will sin. I knew, that as a man of few words, he would give me a short logical answer, and I like what he said: "Because they made the choice to." That is really all we know.

No offense taken! It was me that posted that statement, and I'll clarify what I mean better. I realize it may have been pretty unclear now that I look at it.

I suppose I was referring to someone who says they have accepted Christ but *never* shows a repentant spirit/desire to seek the Lord's will/desire to change their sinful behaviors. I didn't mean that "true Christians" are perfect. To quote the bumper sticker: "Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven." I can 100% assure you that there have been times in my life where my behavior has not been even close to moral. For those times I have asked forgiveness, but I still struggle with guilt from time to time. I certainly think that true Christians, myself included, often backslide and struggle against our own sinful natures. The Bible tells us that it will be a constant battle against our old sinful natures for our entire lives on this side of heaven. In essence, I believe that only God knows our hearts and knows whether our acceptance of His Son was genuine or not. He does say that you can tell Christians by their fruits, yet He knows we are all sinners and struggle with sin daily. I do think there has to be genuine repentance and the desire to be like Christ in a true Christian's life; however, I think that we all struggle very, very much against our old natures and will have periods in our lives where we don't do things that honor God and show our relationship with Him. Certainly there are times in almost all (if not all) Christians' lives where we don't seem very Christ-like at all. However, I do believe that true Christians will eventually return to the Lord. In other words, if someone says they have accepted Christ, then has no desire (which the Lord says he will give Christians) ever to change their sinful ways, and makes no effort to ever be what the Lord wants of them, then I would doubt that person's sincerity. I'm really speaking in hypotheticals because I don't think it's my job to judge another person's salvation. That is God's job, not mine. I hope that cleared up what I meant a little bit.

 

[Aidensmom]

Elisabeth - Thank you for putting that into words so well, that is exactly what I was trying to say.

 

[Albertan mom]

I can see where you are all coming from. You cannot lose your salvation, unless you deny it or tell God to take it away, you no longer need Him. But on that note- I think if the sin of gambling is an issue for you, you do it, are convicted, ask for forgiveness, but then still gamble everyday (and ask for forgiveness everytime) that is a problem.

Yes, we all backslide, stumble, and sin. And God is there to forgive us when we ask for it, repent from it and try our hardest not to do it again.

And I know many don't want to hear this, but that is why I think Homosexuality is wrong. It is a sin, and it is constant. A way of life. Or prostitution. Or daily gambling. Or child ponography. Or daily stealing. Or shady business transactions. If you do something over and over and over again, then you aren't really sorry for it.

I know I will probably get flamed for this.
Not looking for a debate, just my opinion.

 

[Buckalew11]

See, this is something that really bothers me. I understand what you are saying Elisabeth and I think it is God's job also. He, and only He, knows our hearts.
I think this is a very deep subject that just blows my mind really and I have a hard time grasping it. Here is what happens:
This has been discussed in my SS class several times. Sometimes, I feel like I might have to just get up and walk out. There is a girl in there (probably more than 1 person, but she is always vocal about this) who will say that homosexuals aren't going to Heaven. I don't know how she knows this info. I know she sees it as a sin but there are a lot of other sins too--how/why would she only seem to exclude this person because of this particular sin? I think it is picked on because no one in the class is guilty of it (that I know of) and I think because she believes that since that gay person is still living the gay life style that that means they aren't even trying to stop & therefore must have never been 'saved'.
Aidenson's mom mentioned overeating. I probably eat past the point of comfortably full every day. In fact, I eat too much and therefore I am guilty of glutteny. It really is a continuing sin for me and as far I can see, many, many others overeat often too. I mean, Jerry Falwell looks like he struggles with this also. Yet, I don't see people saying this (are they really saved??) about people who struggle with food--why is that? Jesus said, "go and sin no more". There are many sins that I don't struggle with on a daily, weekly, monthly etc. basis but there are a few I commit over and over again. I realize that Christ knows my weaknesses and He knows I'll fall short again.

But what is the difference? And I do not mean to pick on any homosexuals or overeaters. These are examples and the gay example always comes up with these people. I always speak out about it--mostly because I have 2 gay friends that I really care about and it hurts me to think that people say such things about them. I think it is a hateful message and I think it teaches people to judge others instead of looking at themselves first. (You know, the ol' " why do you try to pick the splinter out of your neighbor's eye when you have a log in your own eye?")

 

[Buckalew11]

Albertnmom,
We posted at the same time. I understand what you are saying. It is a lot like my example. So what about overeating, smoking (which is much the same--we know smoking is bad for the body--the Temple of the Lord) etc. I just have a hard time grasping this.

 

[Aidensmom]

But what is the difference? And I do not mean to pick on any homosexuals or overeaters. These are examples and the gay example always comes up with these people. I always speak out about it--mostly because I have 2 gay friends that I really care about and it hurts me to think that people say such things about them. I think it is a hateful message and I think it teaches people to judge others instead of looking at themselves first. (You know, the ol' " why do you try to pick the splinter out of your neighbor's eye when you have a log in your own eye?")

According to the bible, there is only one sin that can cause you to lose your salvation, blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Nothing else. No differences.

 

[Buckalew11]

Thanks for this answer, Aidensmom. Maybe next time instead of wanting to get up and walk out of the class, I'll see where this answer goes.
It really makes a lot of sense because of how I believe salvation works. My works won't get me there and my works shouldn't cancel me out either. No "free pass", but God certainly knows ourt hearts and knows our struggles.

 

[Tasha+Scott]

I just wanted to say something about this statement, and I am not trying to single anyone out, or start a debate, and I apogize if it offends anyone, it is just that I have heard this a lot and it really rubs me the wrong way. It is almost like it is the stock Christian answer for this question. This is why it bothers me:

If someone is saved, and accepts Jesus Christ, I do agree they will have a desire to change and do good works. However, they are still sinners, still tempted, and will still sin. At what point do we start doubting someone's salvation, or their acceptance of Christ? When they still wear shorts? When they hide a department store receipt from their spouse? When they get a tattoo? When they have a glass of wine? When they have pre-marital sex? When they get a divorce? When they have an affair? Where are we drawing a line? And if we are drawing a line, we are judging, and that is not our job.

A LOT of Christians backslide at some point, does this mean they were never saved? I don't believe this for a minute. I think sometimes our temptations are even stronger once we are a Christian, Satan wants us to mess up. Some people may have had an addiction, or some emotional problems, etc. that are not going to just disappear once they are saved. These people still have to struggle. Yes, they have God to give them strength, but it is still a struggle. Every single one of us has a sin that we struggle with, people are just more judgemental about some sins than they are about others.

Maybe I feel strongly about this because I have backslidden before, and I have experienced God's great mercy in forgiving me for that, but I do know without a doubt that I had still sincerely accepted Christ.

I am not saying we have a "free pass" to sin (I had never even heard that sentiment till the last few days on the DIS board), just that we still will. And we will be convicted, and we will be forgiven. I am also not saying that there are not people who claim to be Christians who truly are not, but I have no way of knowing who those people are. Only God knows that.

I posed the question to my husband of why does someone who is saved will sin. I knew, that as a man of few words, he would give me a short logical answer, and I like what he said: "Because they made the choice to." That is really all we know.

I completely get what you are saying and I completely agree. I have been saved since I was 17 but I also had premarital sex right before I turned 18. Dh and I lived together for a week before we got married. Those are big no-nos but we did it nonetheless. I have had periodic lapses and have backslid occasionally since then. I think that if you are truly saved though that you do know what you are doing is wrong and even if you ignore it at the time you do usually feel some type of guilt about it even if it comes a lot later down the line. I think that the main thing with BACs is that yes, they sin, yes, they backslide and are tempted and sometimes give in to temptation (I know I have!) but eventually they always bounce back and repent...unless they later reject Christ altogether, which makes me wonder how committed they were in the first place. I know I have made some major sins but I have repented. I know I will later make many more mistakes but eventually I will repent of those too. If we had to be perfect all the time after getting saved or risk losing our salvation then no one on this planet would ever go to Heaven. So, I guess that's what I mean when I say that you will always come back to God and repent eventually. I know I had premarital sex for almost a year before I was married and although I am glad that it was my now Dh I did ask God for forgiveness later on. And I know that I am forgiven for it too. That's the beauty of Jesus's gift of dying on the cross for us.

 

[Albertan mom]

Hey Guys
We are leaving tomorrow for a week, so I won't be posting for a few days! We could use prayer for a safe trip. We are also going to see my dad, and he is going through a rough time right now, and we don't have the best relationship, so could use a prayer for that!
Hope you all have a great week, look forward to reading many pages of posts when I return!
God Bless!

 

[luvthatduke]

Have a great trip, Albertan Mom!
Praying for you & your father,
and also praying for the previous requests
a few pages back.

 

[Aidensmom]

Hey Guys
We are leaving tomorrow for a week, so I won't be posting for a few days! We could use prayer for a safe trip. We are also going to see my dad, and he is going through a rough time right now, and we don't have the best relationship, so could use a prayer for that!
Hope you all have a great week, look forward to reading many pages of posts when I return!
God Bless!

Prayers said. Have a great trip.

 

[RickinNYC]

I have to say that you guys have been posting some fascinating reading, in a slight debate, about sin and salvation. Interesting to see different takes from within the same faith.