Booking sites but not staying in them.

[SolitaryPhoenix]

As you can see from my sig, I'm DVC, have stayed in multiple hotels on-site, and also LOVE camping at FW; we've camped my whole life, and I still totally enjoy it now. Reading through that "throwaway" thread over on the parks forum really ticked me off! I can't tell you how many times I've had to push my search for a campsite out further and further, because there were no sites available; to read these people being so smug and self-righteous about it really got me irritated. "Book 6 months out or tough luck for you!" "59 days and it's mine!" Blech!!! I posted a few times, and have now become determined to stay away from that thread and the subject, since it's just going to up my blood pressure and it's a nonstarter, at least as far as Disney's concerned. However, I wanted to check in here because I was fairly sure my irritation over this practice would shared -or at least understood!- here, and sure enough, I was right. Good to know I'm a not alone!

 

[cousineddie]

Yeah, I'll admit it's my fault that I stirred that pot up over there Sunday morning. I was floored about the bragging going on with the use of the "loophole" and the talk of "I deserve the best vacation I can have" mentality. My thought is, If you can't afford to do it "right" than it's more than you deserve. But then again, that's my idea on it and apparently it's none of my d@mn business and I'm bitter because I didn't get my site.

Oh well, I don't see it.

I don't guess it directly affects me as much anymore since I now have a bigger camper and not a pop-up, I don't figure they'll try and reserve one of those sights when there are thousands of rooms to be had at the same price.

It'll probably turn into more of a personal attack before it calms back down again. I look over every once in a while to see where it's headed, but then scurry back over here.

It may be the difference in the way a camper thinks and uses things versus someone in a hotel. If you think about it, if you're coming to Disney with a camper or a tent, you're probably driving in and not flying and taking magical express once you hit the ground. After you get here, you set up camp, see your neighbors, swap stories sightsee and then you're ready for your next phase of the vacation. Campers have so much emotionally involved between the planning stage and the "I'm here and ready to do Disney now" stage that it's seen as rude and insulting that someone would treat something as "throwaway", especially when it's hard enough to get in the first place.

Should I have kept my mouth shut?

Probably.

Will I bring it up again over there?

Absolutely not.

Will I hunt down bama_ed next weekend and drink a beer (or something else) with him?

That is a strong possibility, he might even furnish another beer if mine goes dry, campers are like that and I feel we might have a lot in common.

I've rambled long enough. Y'all have a good afternoon. I'll see some of ya in a couple weeks.

 

[bama_ed]

Will I hunt down bama_ed next weekend and drink a beer (or something else) with him?

That is a strong possibility, he might even furnish another beer if mine goes dry, campers are like that and I feel we might have a lot in common.

Oh shizzle.

I was planning to do the big grocery shopping on Sunday but I don't know the blue laws of that corner of Orange County. Better bring it from home on Saturday.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCoOcBv01aA

Bama ED

PS -

 

[mrzrich]

I just had to walk away from that thread. Somebody just implied that staying at FW and not visiting the parks is just as unethical. Because you are wasting the free parking and EMH. People who have never stayed at the Fort, just don't get the Fort.

 

[bama_ed]

I just had to walk away from that thread. Somebody just implied that staying at FW and not visiting the parks is just as unethical. Because you are wasting the free parking and EMH. People who have never stayed at the Fort, just don't get the Fort.

OMG I hadn't been over to that thread lately and what a bunch of zeroes! They aren't worth losing posting capabilities over.

Bama ED

 

[SolitaryPhoenix]

I just had to walk away from that thread. Somebody just implied that staying at FW and not visiting the parks is just as unethical. Because you are wasting the free parking and EMH. People who have never stayed at the Fort, just don't get the Fort.

Yes, that's what was driving me nuts over there too; there are some really ridiculous points being made. Someone just replied to one of my posts "so anytime I go anywhere, according to your standards, I should be asking myself if someone else "Might" need it more than me? The examples are endless... grocery store, clothes , hotels rooms, reservations at a resturant etc.... " I mean, really? How do you get from it's wrong to book a camp site and not use it so you can get benefits to what this person was saying?

The thread is kind of like a car wreck, and I really need to stop rubbernecking - I don't do it in real life, and I certainly don't need it here, when I'm at the DIS, working on my happy place plans!!!

 

[cousineddie]

Oh shizzle.

I was planning to do the big grocery shopping on Sunday but I don't know the blue laws of that corner of Orange County. Better bring it from home on Saturday.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCoOcBv01aA

Bama ED

PS -

That movie definitely the inspiration for my handle. It's the name of our camper, kind of rough around the edges, but generally means well. If I hadn't named the truck Clyde (as in the draft horse) before I named the camper it would be Clark, because he drags Eddie's broken down a$$ all over the country.

I've got an app on my phone that tells information about the different states (taxes on fuel, seat belt rules, towing rules/regs, and alcohol info) but it doesn't have info on whether or not beer sales are allowed on Sunday. Don't worry, we're staying Friday night about an hour outside the Fort and I plan on doing my shopping then, if you're short I'll have plenty.

As for the show over there? Do what I do, sit back and watch.

 

[SolitaryPhoenix]

... As for the show over there? Do what I do, sit back and watch.

 

[tiggerdad]

Threads like that are what earned me my only run-in with the law (admins).
Like Ed said, better to stay away from it.

That bunch can and will lure you in and then report you, thus getting you in trouble. Been there, done that. Not worth the PM from one of the moderators.

 

[siskaren]

Like Ed said, better to stay away from it.

No kidding. I made the mistake of looking at it again and I can't believe how bad it's gotten. They just do not see anything wrong with what they're doing.

 

[SolitaryPhoenix]

Threads like that are what earned me my only run-in with the law (admins).
Like Ed said, better to stay away from it.

That bunch can and will lure you in and then report you, thus getting you in trouble. Been there, done that. Not worth the PM from one of the moderators.

I just looked now, and sure enough, like a bunch of vultures, my posts are being picked over. Pretty pathetic.

 

[SolitaryPhoenix]

No kidding. I made the mistake of looking at it again and I can't believe how bad it's gotten. They just do not see anything wrong with what they're doing.

No they don't, and now they're talking about how they do it at Universal too! Unreal... Really going to try to just stay away from the thread.

 

[mco65]

I think that MOST of the folks who play the throw away room game are missing the BIG picture. Obviously there is NO ethical issues with renting a room for 1 night and not using it. The issue comes into play when for example, I rent a campsite for 1 night on a Monday and Joe comes behind me looking to rent a campsite for a week (sat to sat) and can't because all the campsites are booked for the length of Joe's stay.. This can be caused by my 1 night stay on Monday. Now that situation might be rare but it obviously can and will happen especially on busy times of the year and as someone else pointed out... prices will go up because of this practice. We learned in school long ago about Supply and Demand which says that if Demand goes up and Supply remains constant, prices will go up so this will end up costing Campers more money in the long run.

So in the end, this is NOT as much of an ethical or moral issue as it is a basic common sense issue. The folks doing this are going to cost campers more money down the road. But like they said, too bad so sad. They just dont' give a crap about others.. is a me me world.. So sad indeed!

 

[sippican]

I can't blame those who are able to book throwaway sites. They continue do it because they are able to do so and there are many incentives and perks to encourage the practice. The difference at the Fort is we can see those empty sites, we have no idea how many resort rooms or cruiseline cabis remain unoccupied when they say "sold out". For instance, travel agenices are able to book blocks of cabins, and those unsold are released very close to the travel dates.
I completely blame the Disney management for allowing this practice at the Fort.
Many campgrounds we have been to have an "occupancy rule". You stay on the site or they rent it out. There are a number of criteria for occupancy depending upon the type of site - tent, hoses, ... (Not just a lawn chair, etc) When we've been at the Fort, the CMs seem to circle the loops on a very regular basis and it would seem quite simple to determine occupancy. They could also consider a minimum or maximum stay criteria during peak times. The Magic Bands linked to a site could be "shut off". (Imagine showing up for the extra magic am hours and being directed to Guest Services.)
I'm sure there are possible solutions, they just choose to ignore it for the time being.

FYIW - there are other boards where you can find the same attiudes and views as on "that other thread", don't even get me started on the DCL forum; mention a Cabana on Castawa Cay and be prepared!
Safer to hang out here.

 

[cousineddie]

I can't blame those who are able to book throwaway sites. They continue do it because they are able to do so and there are many incentives and perks to encourage the practice. The difference at the Fort is we can see those empty sites, we have no idea how many resort rooms or cruiseline cabis remain unoccupied when they say "sold out". For instance, travel agenices are able to book blocks of cabins, and those unsold are released very close to the travel dates. I completely blame the Disney management for allowing this practice at the Fort. Many campgrounds we have been to have an "occupancy rule". You stay on the site or they rent it out. There are a number of criteria for occupancy depending upon the type of site - tent, hoses, ... (Not just a lawn chair, etc) When we've been at the Fort, the CMs seem to circle the loops on a very regular basis and it would seem quite simple to determine occupancy. They could also consider a minimum or maximum stay criteria during peak times. The Magic Bands linked to a site could be "shut off". (Imagine showing up for the extra magic am hours and being directed to Guest Services.) I'm sure there are possible solutions, they just choose to ignore it for the time being. FYIW - there are other boards where you can find the same attiudes and views as on "that other thread", don't even get me started on the DCL forum; mention a Cabana on Castawa Cay and be prepared! Safer to hang out here.

I'm sure there's a huge difference between a CM and the usual retired campground host. I've only been to the Fort once, but I believe they were running around in air conditioned ford escapes with the windows rolled up and not golf carts where they stop and chat. Of course the fort is a much larger and more complicated facility than the usual state park or corps of engineer campground, and I'm sure the CMs have a huge list of things to do, a lot of ground to cover and not near enough time to do either. They're on the lookout for "obvious" problems, and probably not near as interested as guests may be as to the nature of the empty site next door.

It seems to be a system that does need some improvement on Disney's part, mere education of the "non-standard guests" on campground use and etiquette hasn't and probably won't help this issue.

 

[Running_Bell]

We stayed at a very nice campground near Niagara Falls one year that charged us a $100.00 refundable deposit. A man on a golf cart came by one night and checked us off a list... the deposit was back on our credit card a day or so after we checked out. I guess if we had never set up and spent the night... we wouldn't have gotten our deposit back. Why doesn't FW do this? This would be a way to prevent most of this.

 

[sippican]

I'm sure there's a huge difference between a CM and the usual retired campground host. I've only been to the Fort once, but I believe they were running around in air conditioned ford escapes with the windows rolled up and not golf carts where they stop and chat. Of course the fort is a much larger and more complicated facility than the usual state park or corps of engineer campground, and I'm sure the CMs have a huge list of things to do, a lot of ground to cover and not near enough time to do either. They're on the lookout for "obvious" problems, and probably not near as interested as guests may be as to the nature of the empty site next door.

It seems to be a system that does need some improvement on Disney's part, mere education of the "non-standard guests" on campground use and etiquette hasn't and probably won't help this issue.

Good points, however, the campgrounds where we've stayed with an occupancy policy (state, corps of engineers, etc.), are staffed at a much lower ratio and sometimes on an unpaid volunteer only basis. Disney, no matter how large or complicated the facility, seems adept at managing crowds and policies they institute. If the government can manage this (surprisingly so) seems Disney can if they want to.

 

[amylevan]

I guess I'm in the minority here. We love the fort, we really do, And it stinks if I have trouble getting a reservation (which has happened) and after calling back and tweaking dates, we get there and there are empty spots (also has happened). But the truth is, if they have paid for the site, it is their right to do with it as they please.

I may be extremely annoyed by someone taking a spot that I'd like to actually use, but that's life. It means I have to get off my bum and make reservations earlier.

 

[Cals dad]

Yes, people have a right to do what they want if they have paid for the site. Doesn't make it less rude. For people doing this, it is all about me me me.
They are the types of people who probably think that if you aren't cheating, you aren't trying, always trying to game the system. They want to stay at a nice hotel, get all the parks of staying on site, but don't want to spend the money to do so.

Just because someone has the right to do something doesn't make it okay to do so. For instance, if I go to the movies, I paid for my ticket. I should be allowed to pass gas whenever I want. Doesn't make it less rude or obnoxious, but it is my right. I don't, because I actually think of others.

 

[North of Mouse]

I guess I'm in the minority here. We love the fort, we really do, And it stinks if I have trouble getting a reservation (which has happened) and after calling back and tweaking dates, we get there and there are empty spots (also has happened). But the truth is, if they have paid for the site, it is their right to do with it as they please.

I may be extremely annoyed by someone taking a spot that I'd like to actually use, but that's life. It means I have to get off my bum and make reservations earlier.

You are correct - it is their 'right'!

But, rightly or wrongly, we are not ones to make ressies 6-12 months ahead usually. We're more on the line of 1-3 months and have 'always' gotten our sites by trying more than once. We have not gone in 11 months now with no plans to go for now.

I did see your post on the other site as I was lurking, and your thoughts on the matter is your own and your rights. Will say that the majority of us on the camping thread just don't see it as the right thing to do, no matter how much in the 'right' people are.

I really think Disney is to blame though (kind of sitting back and throwing us under the bus) because they 'are' aware, and so far are doing absolutely nothing about it - again their 'right' - their 'business'.