Bonnet Creek Yah or Nah for DVC members?????

[JimMIA]

Out of all the offsite places I have stayed at over the years, I still feel that nothing compares to OKW, Saratoga, or VWL. Mainly on the look, the feel, and the atmosphere. As far as amenities and price goes, they are at the bottom.

First of all, any comparison any of us makes along those lines is subjective at best.

If we limit the universe to stays at Walt Disney World, I would agree with you on OKW and VWL, although I don't think there are any DVC resorts that compare with WBC as far as amenities. SSR is not in the ballgame as far as I'm concerned. That's purely subjective, and your opinion is worth just as much as mine.

But I think it matters greatly whether you are evaluating a timeshare product on your anticipated experience in one spot on Earth, or as a system overall. If you look only at WDW, DVC is clearly the best (IMHO) because of location and theming.

But if you are looking at a DVC ownership vs. Wyndham ownership, you need to understand that DVC has 12 resorts worldwide. Wyndham has 12 in Hawaii alone. And 16 in Florida, 9 in South Carolina, 8 in California, and several in major destination cities (San Francisco, New York City, New Orleans, Chicago, etc). I honestly don't know how many total resorts Wyndham has, but it's in the neighborhood of 90.

So if you are looking for WDW vacations, DVC is the best, IMHO. But if you are looking for vacation opportunities, a number of other timeshare systems offer far more options and flexibility.

 

[Figamento]

Is it true that Wyndham requires planning a year in advance?

 

[JimMIA]

Is it true that Wyndham requires planning a year in advance?

In a few situations, yes, but generally no.

Wyndham owners can book their home resort 13 months out, and non-home resorts 10 months out. There are some reservations that are tough to get -- New Orleans during Mardi Gras, Daytona during Race Week, the two resorts in the Washington DC area around July 4th, etc.

But many locations are not difficult to get, in part because Wyndham has multiple resorts in many popular locations. Obviously, availability is very resort-specific, so it will vary widely by individual resort and specific dates.

 

[Dean]

Is it true that Wyndham requires planning a year in advance?

Timeshares in general require planning including DVC, most are less forgiving than DVC when it comes to planning. Wyndham is 13 months out for the home resort and 10 months elsewhere. For some options you'll need day one 10 months out, for others not nearly so much.

 

[ksmummee]

I have dvc, but would love to know more about wyndham ownership. I have done a few searches online, but can't find a whole lot of info. Definitely do not want to contact wynham directly and will purchase through ebay when ready.

thanks!

 

[stevelee]

Hey dean

When you stayed at harbour lakes what do you find the bet way to book that. Did you trade with dvc pints or do you have another timeshare you use. I am looking for options and places to stay other than dvc. Just thought I would ask!

Disney is lightyears beyond most all timeshares (maybe all, I haven't personally seen an exception) when it comes to theming and I agree that there is a calming affect for my family being at Disney. However, looked at objectively, there are maybe 9 or 10 other timeshares that are at that level or above when you look at the maint, room size, quality of furnishings, pools and activities and a number of others fairly close. Ignoring theming and location (difficult to do I know both emotionally and intellectually), I think several of these are above DVC but it's difficult to argue they are not, at least, comparable to DVC with the exceptions noted. There are people who actually prefer to stay off property at the same cost.

Specific to the Fountains, it has one of the nicer pools, probably better than all DVC except SAB and it has private cabana's. Harbour Lakes has the best pools for little kids and Lakeshore maybe the best big person pool of the ones I've seen (haven't seen 1 of the Hilton's). The units at the Fountains themselves are nice but likely not to the level of Grande Vista, Lakeshore or the Hilton's though close UNLESS you get the 4 BR presidential which we've had every time we've stayed there but 2, usually at $79 a night. One of it's benefit for exchanging is it's all 2 BR or above, so it's easy to up trade though that's not as much an issue with RCI now as it was a few years ago. I prefer on property but don't find myself missing it when we're off property at the level of resort we're discussing. We just approach things a little differently without making a big deal of it and we usually drive to the parks anyway when staying on property except MK and if we're hitting more than one park.

 

[Dean]

I have dvc, but would love to know more about wyndham ownership. I have done a few searches online, but can't find a whole lot of info. Definitely do not want to contact wynham directly and will purchase through ebay when ready.

thanks!

TUG at Tug2.net and the various email lists through places like Yahoo are great places to start. Look at the TUG advice pages. Don't limit your thinking to Wyndham, it might or might not be the best one for you.

Hey dean

When you stayed at harbour lakes what do you find the bet way to book that. Did you trade with dvc pints or do you have another timeshare you use. I am looking for options and places to stay other than dvc. Just thought I would ask!

Harbour Lakes trades with II so you can't trade for it through DVC. DVC also limits trades of within 30 miles anyway. I also own other timeshares including several Marriott's.

 

[DVC4FUN]

TUG at Tug2.net and the various email lists through places like Yahoo are great places to start. Look at the TUG advice pages. Don't limit your thinking to Wyndham, it might or might not be the best one for you.

Harbour Lakes trades with II so you can't trade for it through DVC. DVC also limits trades of within 30 miles anyway. I also own other timeshares including several Marriott's.

Does this mean if you own Wyndham Bonnet Creek points you can not trade them for the WDW DVC units?

Bonnet Creek has long held my interest even though I haven't even set foot in it. I am definitely more in the prefer to be on property camp. I also prefer not to have to drive/rent a car while on vacation except sometimes 1-2 day rentals for shopping or other parks. I have stayed off property once almost 14 years ago. I don't even remember where it was. Thought the place was nice but didn't have the warm fuzzy I'm in Disney feeling. But since Bonnet Creek is nearly on property I have wondered if I would like it better. And the fact that the trades using Wyndham points into DVC is so much cheaper that using the DVC points. Would love to get a 1-2 bedroom DVC unit on trade for about the cost of a studio with my DVC points.

 

[Dean]

Does this mean if you own Wyndham Bonnet Creek points you can not trade them for the WDW DVC units?

Bonnet Creek has long held my interest even though I haven't even set foot in it. I am definitely more in the prefer to be on property camp. I also prefer not to have to drive/rent a car while on vacation except sometimes 1-2 day rentals for shopping or other parks. I have stayed off property once almost 14 years ago. I don't even remember where it was. Thought the place was nice but didn't have the warm fuzzy I'm in Disney feeling. But since Bonnet Creek is nearly on property I have wondered if I would like it better. And the fact that the trades using Wyndham points into DVC is so much cheaper that using the DVC points. Would love to get a 1-2 bedroom DVC unit on trade for about the cost of a studio with my DVC points.

Currently DVC allows trades out of such minisystems since the points are not overly specific to the resort in question. However, they have blocked trades from RCI points resorts into DVC and even canceled them after the fact at times. I think you'd be pretty safe with Worldmark, Bluegreen, Hilton, Holiday Inn and Wyndham among others but there is risk this will change going forward.

 

[JimMIA]

Bonnet Creek has long held my interest even though I haven't even set foot in it.

I would not buy, or not buy, any timeshare system for one resort -- and especially not for Bonnet Creek. WBC has something like 1,200 rooms and availability there is not very difficult unless you are looking for something like a 4 bedroom Presidential. If you're looking at a timeshare family, I would focus on where that timeshare has resorts and the costs of ownership. Dean's advice not to focus on one option is very valid -- Wyndham meets my family's needs, but it might not be right for your family. Look at all of the better systems.

The locations are most important, IMHO. If a timeshare doesn't have resorts where you want to go, what's the point? Do your research and you will find that some resorts in the system you like have much higher or lower annual MFs than others...and the points can be used equally (like staying at VGF on OKW resale points vs staying there on VGF points purchased direct).

When I was looking, Dean gave me some very good advice -- to stay away from resorts which might have big unexpected special assessments (e.g. coastal resorts which might be hit by a hurricane). Also, in terms of cost, be aware that some resorts in active sales (WBC) might currently have low MFs, but those could go up significantly once sales are completed.

But since Bonnet Creek is nearly on property I have wondered if I would like it better.

WBC is close, and I find the drive time to parks the same as OKW or SSR -- I can be parked at any theme park in 15 minutes. They have a shuttle system, but there is a fee for that and it is scheduled...which may not be as frequent as you're used to with Disney transportation.

The resort itself is very nice and has many amenities, but is basically a high-rise condo complex around a large lake. If you go to the DIS Orlando Resorts and Attractions board, you will find a lot of info about WBC, including a WBC photo thread.

And the fact that the trades using Wyndham points into DVC is so much cheaper that using the DVC points. Would love to get a 1-2 bedroom DVC unit on trade for about the cost of a studio with my DVC points.

I wouldn't bank on being able to do that, and you should understand that exchanging could change at any time. It's unlikely Wyndham will leave RCI, because Wyndham owns RCI, but DVC could change again. Exchange costs, both fees and points required, could also change.

If you buy a timeshare, buy it for what that system offers you within its own system. Anything extra you get is gravy.

 

[LoveBWVVBR]

Currently DVC allows trades out of such minisystems since the points are not overly specific to the resort in question. However, they have blocked trades from RCI points resorts into DVC and even canceled them after the fact at times. I think you'd be pretty safe with Worldmark, Bluegreen, Hilton, Holiday Inn and Wyndham among others but there is risk this will change going forward.

But even if they changed and disallowed those trades, you could either trade into Bonnet Creek (or book directly if you owned Wyndham) or sell/give away the contract entirely. Some of these systems sell so cheaply on the secondary market that there is little to no risk/downside. I don't know if it's still the case, but for a while you could get Wyndham points for free/cost of closing.

 

[Dean]

But even if they changed and disallowed those trades, you could either trade into Bonnet Creek (or book directly if you owned Wyndham) or sell/give away the contract entirely. Some of these systems sell so cheaply on the secondary market that there is little to no risk/downside. I don't know if it's still the case, but for a while you could get Wyndham points for free/cost of closing.

Correct and one of the reasons whey I feel that a non DVC timeshare is often better as a single choice for those that want only one or the other. Actually for many, owning both is a great option.

 

[Brian Noble]

I wouldn't bank on being able to do that, and you should understand that exchanging could change at any time. It's unlikely Wyndham will leave RCI, because Wyndham owns RCI, but DVC could change again. Exchange costs, both fees and points required, could also change.

Quoted for truth. The "rules" of timeshare exchange are constantly changing. I'm a relative newbie to the timeshare world, having purchased my first one about seven years ago. In those seven years, there have been no fewer than four sea changes in how one best exchanges into DVC:

* In early 2009, DVC moved from Interval to RCI. This shut out owners in II, but benefited owners in RCI.
* In mid 2010, RCI changed its internal valuation system, and many resorts that used to have sufficient trade power for DVC no longer did. This shut out many owners.
* In 2011 RCI exposed that valuation system to members, but also made its system more flexible, allowing "change back" and the ability to combine separate deposits/change for more trade power. This allowed more people access, but at a higher price.
* Also in 2011 Wyndham completely changed the way it interfaced with RCI. This instantly changed Wyndham from a "bargain-hunter" in RCI to something that only works with high-value exchanges---but it works very well with them.

As a result of all of these changes, Wyndham today is a very efficient way to exchange into DVC (as are most of the other mini-systems). But, it WILL change again, and probably sooner rather than later. In fact, I suspect we are overdue for some other major change that tips the balance one way or the other.

 

[Brian Noble]

One more thought on exchanging: in the Good Old Days, it was often possible to use very inexpensive timeshares to trade into very expensive ones. Learning how to do this (and managing the process) took some time, but it wasn't incredibly difficult.

Over time, as each of these market inefficiencies are discovered and exploited by more and more people, they are inevitably corrected. So, over time, the chances that you can extract a lot of value via timeshare exchange go down. In the limit, if this process runs to completion, the cost to exchange into something will always meet or exceed the cost of owning that something. One might argue that we'll never reach that point, but we certainly do seem to be moving in that direction. As a result, I would not encourage anyone to purchase a timeshare with the intent of doing a lot of exchanges to save money.

 

[ldo]

I concur with Brian for those considering purchases. I have been TS trading for 15 years. We bought most of our 3 TS to use (summer beach weeks). I also traded my Dad's nearly worthless TS. Planning 15-18 months out, I traded Dad's TS for Smugglers Notch in VT for summer, Summer Bay Pool house (3BR with private pool) in Orlando for Easter week, and a number of other excellent trades. Now with the post-2011 RCI system, Dad's unit would only get about 1/4 of the value for trading (what it is actually worth, IMHO). However, after the RCI changes (in which they place a lower value on HHI summer weeks--go figure), my 4th of July 3BR beach week at a top-rated RCI resort does not have enough points to pull a Spring break Orlando week (and not even at DVC). If I had bought either of those just to trade, the changed rules would have been very upsetting to me. I also had a RCI points TS that I kind of wanted to get rid of--but on the flip side, after the 2011 RCI changes, I have traded into DVC 2X and am now glad that I kept it.
so bottom line, as with choosing a home resort with DVC--make sure if you get a TS, that you would be OK with using it and not trading if the rules changed again. Elaine

 

[LoveBWVVBR]

One more thought on exchanging: in the Good Old Days, it was often possible to use very inexpensive timeshares to trade into very expensive ones. Learning how to do this (and managing the process) took some time, but it wasn't incredibly difficult.

Over time, as each of these market inefficiencies are discovered and exploited by more and more people, they are inevitably corrected. So, over time, the chances that you can extract a lot of value via timeshare exchange go down. In the limit, if this process runs to completion, the cost to exchange into something will always meet or exceed the cost of owning that something. One might argue that we'll never reach that point, but we certainly do seem to be moving in that direction. As a result, I would not encourage anyone to purchase a timeshare with the intent of doing a lot of exchanges to save money.

Meh, I don't know...if the buy-in is negligable (like Wyndham) and you can give it away easily, I see no harm in buying just to trade. Back when DVC was with II it cost me a lot more to trade in dues-wise and the trades weren't as good. Now that they are with RCI, the trades are ample and cheaper (with Wyndham points).

For most people on here, I assume that the goal would be to trade into DVC cheaply. As of right now, it can be done just fine in RCI. It could change for sure, so buy something cheap that you can dump easily I guess.

The bigger problem for us is that we prefer non-DVC timeshares, and the ones we like are either too many trade points or else are hard-to-get now.
At this point, we are going to have to buy a Marriott contract if we want to continue to stay at Lakeshore in the summer. That much has become obvious. Trading into DVC has not been a problem in the 7 or 8 years that we've been doing it, through both II and RCI. I think that eventually people get SICK of going to Orlando and want to trade out. RCI offers more trade matches as they have more inventory, so more DVC gets deposited in. If only some of the other systems were that prolific.

 

[Dean]

While I think a novice shouldn't buy to trade, IMO, it's still a great option for the right situation. One just needs to know the risks one is getting into and have a backup plan for as many contingencies as possible. While there have been changes, there are still great opportunities. Truthfully, there haven't been as many changes in the based situation and process as it seems on the surface. MUCH of the changes with RCI have been with the transparency rather than the underlying process. For example, "in the old days" RCI (and II) would allow you to put in an exchange request knowing full well you didn't have the exchange power to make the exchange even if it came available. Now you can know that more up front AND you now have a method to combat it by combining exchange TPU's. Being able to do points for deposit for RCI points owners is also a great option for some situations. But in principle I agree with the above posts, there is risk and one must keep up and hope for the best. However, there is the potential for high rewards done correctly.

 

[gray52]

While I think a novice shouldn't buy to trade, IMO, it's still a great option for the right situation. One just needs to know the risks one is getting into and have a backup plan for as many contingencies as possible. While there have been changes, there are still great opportunities. Truthfully, there haven't been as many changes in the based situation and process as it seems on the surface. MUCH of the changes with RCI have been with the transparency rather than the underlying process. For example, "in the old days" RCI (and II) would allow you to put in an exchange request knowing full well you didn't have the exchange power to make the exchange even if it came available. Now you can know that more up front AND you now have a method to combat it by combining exchange TPU's. Being able to do points for deposit for RCI points owners is also a great option for some situations. But in principle I agree with the above posts, there is risk and one must keep up and hope for the best. However, there is the potential for high rewards done correctly.

Dean... If I remember correctly, you have a number of timeshares? Maybe you can advise or point me in the right location to find out... We're trying to figure out the general value/trading power and what trade possibilities we might expect to have with our timeshares. Just the basic concept of how we could figure out if "we could do this" or "we'd never get that" in a trade.
We currently own 100pts each at OKW and BWV. We also own a fixed week (high red, week 33) at Outer Banks Beach Club II, which is a ocean front, RCI Gold Crown rated resort.
We purchased both with no intention to trade and are perfectly happy with that... But it be kinda nice just to know what other possibilities might be out there for us if we wanted to trade?

Sent from my iPad using DISBoards

 

[Brian Noble]

if the buy-in is negligable (like Wyndham) and you can give it away easily, I see no harm in buying just to trade.

I think a novice shouldn't buy to trade

I think Dean has it right. It's not that *no one* should ever do it, but it probably should not be your *first* purchase. There is a lot to learn in order to make the best use possible of the exchange systems, and a lot of people won't take the time to do it. If you decide that timesharing is really for you, and you like spending the time managing a portfolio, then sure, why not? But, even on TUG---a group of pretty informed owners---there are a lot of people who find the process frustrating.

Maybe you can advise or point me in the right location to find out...

Join TUG (tug2.net/tugbbs.com) and be prepared to do a lot of reading!

To a first-order approximation, you should probably never exchange your DVC points unless you have nothing else you can do with them and/or you are unwilling to rent them out. In general, it is much more efficient to rent your points and use the proceeds to rent the lodging you desire rather than use RCI. There are a handful of exceptions, but they are rare enough that it almost isn't worth thinking about.

The OBBC week might or might not trade well; week 33 is starting to get deeper into the summer, and a lot of southern schools are already back in session by then. I can't get the RCI deposit calculator to work, so I can't say for sure, but someone else at TUG probably owns there and can tell you.

 

[bwvBound]

The OBBC week might or might not trade well; week 33 is starting to get deeper into the summer, and a lot of southern schools are already back in session by then. I can't get the RCI deposit calculator to work, so I can't say for sure, but someone else at TUG probably owns there and can tell you.

Since the introduction of TPU, RCI treats North American week 33 as bright pink. It is certainly a step removed from week 30. Prior to TPU, my SoCal deposits were very red through week 34.