Bonnet Creek has me questioning my DVC contract

[macosx]

Do remember that parking at Disney is $14/day if you stay off property and don't have an annual pass.

Theme park parking for seven days is another $100 or so.

FYI, if you're staying long enough (and a week is probably long enough) consider the annual pass for the free parking.

 

[tjkraz]

On the other hand, the strength of Orlando is also its weakness---nothing is close to everything, so a well-located non-Disney property can be just as convenient, provided you don't mind driving.

And that's the direction my mindset has been going in recent years. I love all of the different parks WDW has to offer, but getting around can be a real hassle. And I really don't see the resorts within walking distance of a park as being a HUGE advantage. Getting to the other parks & destinations via Disney transportation is still aggravating enough that we end up renting a car 9 times out of 10.

As far as Anaheim goes, certainly there are many other low priced options within walking distance. But I personally find the whole Grand Cal / DCA / DL / DTD area to be more immersive than WDW. No, I'm not surrounded by miles and miles of Disney-deeded land. But it feels like more of a tight, easily-accessible community than any area of Walt Disney World.

Anyway, thanks to those who started and contributed to this thread. Thanks to JimMIA for his comments.

It's interesting how this thread just happened to resonate with me. Just a couple of days ago my wife and I were talking about other destinations we want to visit as a family in the coming years--many of which are represented in Wyndham.

And it's pretty amazing to think that you can buy Wyndham points via resale for virtually NOTHING. Points that would cost $20,000 - 30,000 from DVC can be had for $500-1000 in the Wyndham system via eBay.

I don't want to give up that on-site experience altogether so my DVC points aren't going anywhere. But Wyndham offers us the ability to visit other destinations like Washington DC, Destin, Vegas or Hawaii without having to trade through RCI and without the huge up-front cost. And when we want to go to WDW, we can use them for a resort that's every bit as close to the theme parks as Old Key West and Saratoga.

 

[JimMIA]

And it's pretty amazing to think that you can buy Wyndham points via resale for virtually NOTHING. Points that would cost $20,000 - 30,000 from DVC can be had for $500-1000 in the Wyndham system via eBay.

Oh, don't think you can't pay a fortune for Wyndham if the Sales Weasels get ahold of you.

While I was researching, I came across two competing eBay auctions, both about 500,000-600,000 points (forgot how many exactly) at the same resort, virtually same MFs, etc. I was not interested in either contract, but the differences struck me, so I put them on my Watch list.

One had a minimum eBay bid of $1. The other had a minimum bid of $85,000, and a "Buy It Now" price of $95,000!

Both auctions closed without an opening bid.

 

[littlestar]

We bought Smoky Mountains too! Hi neighbor!

That's great! We stayed at the resort in May and our 2 bedroom unit was completely remodeled - very nice. We found pictures of the 4 bedroom presidential online and fell in love - the low dues and ability to book a presidential there with our home resort advantage was why we wanted our points deeded at Wyndham Smoky in Gatlinburg. The new Wyndham at Great Smoky lodge looks really nice, too, with the indoor and outdoor water parks. Having two Wyndham choices in Gatlinburg within a day's drive from home was attractive to us, too.

Our first resale contract was 154,000 and the second 126,000. Hopefully I didn't make a mistake by not buying two 154,000 contracts. I have thought about adding a 49,000 contract, too, but I figured it would be impossible to get rid of some day if I needed to unload it. I always buy with an exit strategy in mind, too. That's why I tried to buy attractively sized contracts with both DVC and Wyndham.

 

[Brian Noble]

Oh, don't think you can't pay a fortune for Wyndham if the Sales Weasels get ahold of you.

Indeed. Wyndham's most recent quarterly report mentioned that timeshare sales were rebounding strongly.

Gross Vacation Ownership Interest (VOI) sales were $371 million in the second quarter of 2010, up 13% from the second quarter of 2009, reflecting an increase of 16% in volume per guest (VPG), while tour flow remained relatively flat.

That's both Club Wyndham Plus and WorldMark by Wyndham.

 

[JohnBJr]

We have 300 points with Disney on three contracts. Bought resale and did one add-on. We've got about $29,000 tied up there along with $1,500 annual expenses.
We also have purchased Wyndham (when it was Fairfield) resales on eBay for a grand total of about $3,500.00 plus annual expenses of about $900.
Which is better? Well, if you want to experience Disney in it's full "immersion in the Mouse" splendor and money is not the primary factor, go DVC, no question.
If you want more variety of locations than Disney can offer and want to maximize your timeshare dollars, Wyndham would our preference and there may be others. Our "home" resort with them is in the Smoky Mountains, a newer resort and VERY clean and friendly. Stayed in Myrtle Beach last month....not so much! Have never stayed at Bonnet Creek because we have DVC !
Incidentally, a rental car is not an issue as we live less than 2 hours away. I like the idea of renting/trading/banking points every other year and varying your stays. Wyndham is cheap enough to make that a possiblity.

 

[gkrykewy]

I'm not sure I would favorably compare a 20-minute walk alongside a canal (and under a major roadway) to a stroll down Main Street USA. The walk to Epcot is a little better due to the resort theming but when you get right down to it, it's still just a walk past a handful of stores and restaurants.

If I were the type to spend 75% of my vacation time hanging out in the World Showcase, then I would probably have a higher opinion of the resort's proximity. As it is, staying at BWV still means that 2/3 of my destinations (MK, AK, DTD, waterparks) are a bus or car ride away. And those 15-20 minute walks can be particularly grueling after spending 6 hours criss-crossing an enormous theme park.

The location of the Grand Californian is truly an on-site perk for Disneyland. As for the DVC's at WDW--not so much in my opinion. More than half of our WDW stays have been at OKW and SSR, and Bonnet Creek seems similar in many ways. We would lose some on-site perks but none are things that we would struggle to live without: early entry--rarely use it; DDP purchase--used once; package delivery--never use it; Magical Express--used once.

I see your point on the walk; I was thinking more of the walk to EPCOT from BWV than the walk to HS. Even if you drive, there's still a 10 min walk across the parking lot, no? I guess i'm coming from a different place on this question. We visit WDW for the on-property theming and transportation; it's not simply a question of simple accessibility - it's a total escape.

Looking forward to experiencing park proximity at GCV this september.

 

[Mickey'sApprentice]

I'm not sure I would favorably compare a 20-minute walk alongside a canal (and under a major roadway) to a stroll down Main Street USA. The walk to Epcot is a little better due to the resort theming but when you get right down to it, it's still just a walk past a handful of stores and restaurants.

If I were the type to spend 75% of my vacation time hanging out in the World Showcase, then I would probably have a higher opinion of the resort's proximity. As it is, staying at BWV still means that 2/3 of my destinations (MK, AK, DTD, waterparks) are a bus or car ride away. And those 15-20 minute walks can be particularly grueling after spending 6 hours criss-crossing an enormous theme park.
The location of the Grand Californian is truly an on-site perk for Disneyland. As for the DVC's at WDW--not so much in my opinion. More than half of our WDW stays have been at OKW and SSR, and Bonnet Creek seems similar in many ways. We would lose some on-site perks but none are things that we would struggle to live without: early entry--rarely use it; DDP purchase--used once; package delivery--never use it; Magical Express--used once.

I see your point on the walk; I was thinking more of the walk to EPCOT from BWV than the walk to HS. Even if you drive, there's still a 10 min walk across the parking lot, no? I guess i'm coming from a different place on this question. We visit WDW for the on-property theming and transportation; it's not simply a question of simple accessibility - it's a total escape.

Looking forward to experiencing park proximity at GCV this september.

The boat rides can be particularly pleasant.

I'm one of those folks that doesn't normally have mobility issues, but struggles with the walking and standing at WDW!

I actually prefer staying at BWV over BCV because I can somewhat justify taking the boat to and from Epcot.

No, the walk from the Epcot ENTRANCE to the Boardwalk isn't that bad. Its the extra 5 miles that you walk after you get to Epcot that is so painful.

 

[photobob]

I originally made this post not as a Wyndham vs. DVC but as a comparison to what you could get renting at Bonnet Creek. To me the only real difference between staying at SSR and Bonnet Creek is the availability of Disney transportation, DVC perks not withstanding.

This is the thing that keeps resonating with me, I could stay at what is a comparable room that is on Disney property in a 2 bedroom deluxe villa for $120 per night. According to my Alabama public education that would be $840 for seven nights. Currently I pay $802 per year for maintenance fees for a 180 point contract. Those points aren't enough for me to get 5 nights in a 2 BDR at my home resort next June. My maintenance fees alone for a contract that will only get me four nights in a two bedroom villa at SSR would cover a weeks stay in a 2 bedroom deluxe villa at Bonnet Creek. Honestly this still kind of blows my mind and has me wondering if I should keep my DVC contract.

 

[Brian Noble]

Honestly this still kind of blows my mind and has me wondering if I should keep my DVC contract.

I think we're back to my original observation: either you're the sort of person for whom only Disney will do, or you're not. If you are that sort of person, then the price premium of DVC is worth it. If you are not, then, well, it isn't. From what you are writing, it sounds like you are very possibly not the sort of person for whom only Disney will do.

Orlando is crammed full of luxurious condos, townhomes, and pool homes that rent for ridiculously low prices. Even in strong economic times it is overbuilt for all but the busiest weeks of the year, and the Mouse's marketing might gives him first crack at the cheese. Here's another example of what the offsite market holds. This is a 5BR home, very well appointed, with a private pool and hot tub. The pool is south facing for good sun in the winter months and it backs up to a conservation area for some privacy. I rented it 2-3 years ago when we went down with another family. it is about 12 minutes from the TTC parking lot; the other parks are closer. We paid about $1250 for a full week, including all taxes and pool heat, during what is Magic Season at DVC and Peak Season at CRO. Looks like prices haven't changed much. That's less than any DVC owner would pay in dues for a 2BR at their home resort during the same time.

If you do end up thinking about selling, I'd encourage you to rent instead until the economy picks up a little bit. I think resale prices, even at SSR, will rebound some when that happens, and you'll be in a better position to sell.

 

[Sammie]

I'm not sure I would favorably compare a 20-minute walk alongside a canal (and under a major roadway) to a stroll down Main Street USA. The walk to Epcot is a little better due to the resort theming but when you get right down to it, it's still just a walk past a handful of stores and restaurants.

Have to agree with TJ, which is why I never understand the bashing of SSR and OKW because of not being walking distance to a park.

If you go during the months were thunderstorms are active, believe me that walk from BW to Epcot or walk to the Studios can be pure torture.

At least on Main Street you can get out of the heat and storms if you need to. Huge difference.

Even from BCV to Epcot, we got caught in a thunderstorm one day that came up so quick we had to take shelter under the bridge until we could safely get to the resort.

 

[LIFERBABE]

I originally made this post not as a Wyndham vs. DVC but as a comparison to what you could get renting at Bonnet Creek. To me the only real difference between staying at SSR and Bonnet Creek is the availability of Disney transportation, DVC perks not withstanding.

This is the thing that keeps resonating with me, I could stay at what is a comparable room that is on Disney property in a 2 bedroom deluxe villa for $120 per night. According to my Alabama public education that would be $840 for seven nights. Currently I pay $802 per year for maintenance fees for a 180 point contract. Those points aren't enough for me to get 5 nights in a 2 BDR at my home resort next June. My maintenance fees alone for a contract that will only get me four nights in a two bedroom villa at SSR would cover a weeks stay in a 2 bedroom deluxe villa at Bonnet Creek. Honestly this still kind of blows my mind and has me wondering if I should keep my DVC contract.

I was looking at bookit.com site and saw the WBC for $120 a night and I too was amazed at how low the villas were renting. I just hope they can keep the resort up, charging that little.
I still enjoy my DVC and happy with our purchase. I do see some decline but I still love being there and it feels like home. We are not huge park people, we enjoy our resort amenities and family time.
I like the transportation options of WDW. It is still the only place I have visited that provides all that transportation in the cost. We have hosted several family functions at our DVC home and using ME to get everyone back and forth to the airport is soooo easy and priceless. I like that as our sons get older, they will be able to utilize resort transportation to get around.
Our first reunion we stayed at a house offsite and my poor brother was back and forth to the airport in the rental, picking up and dropping off. We have college students in the fam that would pay a fortune for a rental and they cant afford that. We must have spent $100 in tolls! After that I learned my lesson. We normally have our car and we still use ME for guests and airport transportation.
If we did not own DVC, we would go back to ala carte vacations or no vacations at all just fix up our home like a resort and stay home which would be more expensive to build and maintain. DVC is more like a home for us and that is how we use it. When used the way we use it, it is a tremendous value in comparison to owning a vacation home outright. It may not stack up well against other TS, but I knew that when I purchased. The others have always been cheaper and just as close. I did not want 'just as close', I wanted Disney with Disney perks

 

[photobob]

I think we're back to my original observation: either you're the sort of person for whom only Disney will do, or you're not. If you are that sort of person, then the price premium of DVC is worth it. If you are not, then, well, it isn't. From what you are writing, it sounds like you are very possibly not the sort of person for whom only Disney will do..

Actually I have always been a only Disney will do person, as my signature will suggest, but this just caught my eye. I have always said that I wouldn't even like going to WDW if I weren't staying at a WDW resort because of the total reality escape it provides. Maybe I need to remind myself of that!!

 

[Brian Noble]

I just hope they can keep the resort up, charging that little.

It's a pure timeshare. As with any timeshare, the ongoing costs plus a capital reserve are funded by the maintenance fees charged to the resort's owners.

For what it's worth, $120 a night in the offseason works out to be more than an owner would pay for a 2BR in those fees; an owner pays a bit less than $90 a night for an offseason week.

Actually I have always been a only Disney will do person, as my signature will suggest, but this just caught my eye. I have always said that I wouldn't even like going to WDW if I weren't staying at a WDW resort because of the total reality escape it provides. Maybe I need to remind myself of that!!

Sorry, I have signatures turned off, so I didn't even see that! But, if this is the case, then it doesn't matter what Bonnet does or doesn't rent for---you wouldn't be happy. So, there you go.

 

[lisaviolet]

Wow, interesting thread.

A few questions:

Are there only select Wyndham locations where you get the RCI membership free of charge? And resale makes no difference, correct? Is there a list somewhere or does it depend on when the resale was orginally purchased?

And then it's a regular RCI membership, correct? Where you can take advantage of the "last minute" and 'extra vacations" RCI choices. I so wish I could do this with DVC - I've used LM through my sister's membership - with a guest certificate.

Okay, I'll admit I did a little speed reading with the brochure. Am I correct that there is no extra fee to trade out to associate resorts a la Worldmark? Just a different booking window.

I was dreaming about adding on to DVC one day - more BWV points . However, I could easily see adding one of the three in Williamsburg with Wyndham. Is it true that if you buy Governor's Green that you will have an II membership instead?

Thanks in advance,

Lisa

 

[Brian Noble]

Lisa: any Wyndhan points owner gets a "free" membership in an external exchange company---either RCI or II. You are paying for it, of course, but it is not itemized separately. The one you get is determined by the home resort of your first deed. Most are RCI, but five or so are II. I think Governor's Green is one of the ones tied to II. I have heard some rumbling that this is changing, and all new accounts are now tied to RCI, but don't know for sure if that is true. In the RCI case, it is a regular membership; you have access to last call, extra vacations, and can even enroll non-Wyndham weeks in the account as well.

The associate resorts can be booked without an extra fee, but this is subject to availability. And there is very little availability in the associate resorts. Effectively, WorldMark gives Wyndham one unit here and there, and vice versa. This is done mostly to make the "wish book" look bigger on the sales floor. You should not assume you can ever book an Associate or Affilate location.

 

[lisaviolet]

Lisa: any Wyndhan points owner gets a "free" membership in an external exchange company---either RCI or II. You are paying for it, of course, but it is not itemized separately. The one you get is determined by the home resort of your first deed. Most are RCI, but five or so are II. I think Governor's Green is one of the ones tied to II. I have heard some rumbling that this is changing, and all new accounts are now tied to RCI, but don't know for sure if that is true. In the RCI case, it is a regular membership; you have access to last call, extra vacations, and can even enroll non-Wyndham weeks in the account as well.

The associate resorts can be booked without an extra fee, but this is subject to availability. And there is very little availability in the associate resorts. Effectively, WorldMark gives Wyndham one unit here and there, and vice versa. This is done mostly to make the "wish book" look bigger on the sales floor. You should not assume you can ever book an Associate or Affilate location.

Thanks Brian. Appreciate it.

There was wording in the book about the free RCI membership that seemed like they were making room for certain exclusions.

I ADORE RCI's "last call". I scan it reguarly. Laughing. I so wish DVC members had that option - without any extra fees of course.

 

[Dean]

And that's the direction my mindset has been going in recent years. I love all of the different parks WDW has to offer, but getting around can be a real hassle. And I really don't see the resorts within walking distance of a park as being a HUGE advantage. Getting to the other parks & destinations via Disney transportation is still aggravating enough that we end up renting a car 9 times out of 10.

As far as Anaheim goes, certainly there are many other low priced options within walking distance. But I personally find the whole Grand Cal / DCA / DL / DTD area to be more immersive than WDW. No, I'm not surrounded by miles and miles of Disney-deeded land. But it feels like more of a tight, easily-accessible community than any area of Walt Disney World.

Anyway, thanks to those who started and contributed to this thread. Thanks to JimMIA for his comments.

It's interesting how this thread just happened to resonate with me. Just a couple of days ago my wife and I were talking about other destinations we want to visit as a family in the coming years--many of which are represented in Wyndham.

And it's pretty amazing to think that you can buy Wyndham points via resale for virtually NOTHING. Points that would cost $20,000 - 30,000 from DVC can be had for $500-1000 in the Wyndham system via eBay.

I don't want to give up that on-site experience altogether so my DVC points aren't going anywhere. But Wyndham offers us the ability to visit other destinations like Washington DC, Destin, Vegas or Hawaii without having to trade through RCI and without the huge up-front cost. And when we want to go to WDW, we can use them for a resort that's every bit as close to the theme parks as Old Key West and Saratoga.

I do see it as an advantage but I also don't mind driving. I normally drive everywhere except MK or EPCOT/Studios if staying at one of the resorts close by. To me it is a much larger advantage if you plan to split up or visit more than one park.

I originally made this post not as a Wyndham vs. DVC but as a comparison to what you could get renting at Bonnet Creek. To me the only real difference between staying at SSR and Bonnet Creek is the availability of Disney transportation, DVC perks not withstanding.

This is the thing that keeps resonating with me, I could stay at what is a comparable room that is on Disney property in a 2 bedroom deluxe villa for $120 per night. According to my Alabama public education that would be $840 for seven nights. Currently I pay $802 per year for maintenance fees for a 180 point contract. Those points aren't enough for me to get 5 nights in a 2 BDR at my home resort next June. My maintenance fees alone for a contract that will only get me four nights in a two bedroom villa at SSR would cover a weeks stay in a 2 bedroom deluxe villa at Bonnet Creek. Honestly this still kind of blows my mind and has me wondering if I should keep my DVC contract.

The reality is you can stay off site in resorts that are nicer than DVC in many ways for as little as $300-400 a week inclusive of all costs. DVC has always been more about perception and emotion than substance, you just need to decide how much that is worth to you.

Wow, interesting thread.

A few questions:

Are there only select Wyndham locations where you get the RCI membership free of charge? And resale makes no difference, correct? Is there a list somewhere or does it depend on when the resale was orginally purchased?

And then it's a regular RCI membership, correct? Where you can take advantage of the "last minute" and 'extra vacations" RCI choices. I so wish I could do this with DVC - I've used LM through my sister's membership - with a guest certificate.

Okay, I'll admit I did a little speed reading with the brochure. Am I correct that there is no extra fee to trade out to associate resorts a la Worldmark? Just a different booking window.

I was dreaming about adding on to DVC one day - more BWV points . However, I could easily see adding one of the three in Williamsburg with Wyndham. Is it true that if you buy Governor's Green that you will have an II membership instead?

Thanks in advance,

Lisa

To add, many systems include RCI (or II) in their membership but nothing is truly fee. I get both RCI weeks AND a RCI points option included with my bluegreen membership. With Marriott's changes, I now get II free, free internal II exchanges, free lockoff fees and free cancelation fees, something I previously had to pay for.

 

[dvc_john]

With Marriott's changes, I now get II free, free internal II exchanges, free lockoff fees and free cancelation fees, something I previously had to pay for.

But there's a required $165 or $195 annual club fee isn't there? So, not really free.

And the II account is for Marriott only. If you have any non-Marriott resorts that you want to be able to trade in II, you need a separate II account.

 

[Dean]

But there's a required $165 or $195 annual club fee isn't there? So, not really free.

And the II account is for Marriott only. If you have any non-Marriott resorts that you want to be able to trade in II, you need a separate II account.

Nothing's really free. They all charge for it one way or another. In my case the two lock off fees would have been $150 a year, II membership I was already paying was $84 and 3 exchanges a year currently at $109 per makes the $199 fee seems very reasonable, esp since it also gives you other options and protections. BG charges $121 if I recall correctly but I get Travelers Plus for free being a Platinum member. DVC's reservations aren't fee either but the costs are rolled into the total.