BOG breakfast for Mine train warning! Early ride not guaranteed

[edolee]

If Disney saw enough of this happening, they would just start to overbook.

I can guarantee you they are already doing this. Disney is probably an expert on yield management at this point. Just as good as the airlines I imagine.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

This reminds me of the running of the bulls that used to be DHS when TSMM first opened. We would be the very first family at the turnstiles for the day, yet the Jack Yak way they opened the parks we'd find ourselves behind 50 or so people who would RUN. Some parents just don't see the bad example of "Me first against the rules." they set. So we stopped going to DHS for a couple of years, then lo and behold. They stopped the opening show and let the turnstiles do the job and people got into the ride in the order they got to the turnstiles. THEN because of the Frozen stuff over last summer, they changed it back to the bad old days.

How is it going now?

 

[jcarwash]

This reminds me of the running of the bulls that used to be DHS when TSMM first opened. We would be the very first family at the turnstiles for the day, yet the Jack Yak way they opened the parks we'd find ourselves behind 50 or so people who would RUN. Some parents just don't see the bad example of "Me first against the rules." they set. So we stopped going to DHS for a couple of years, then lo and behold. They stopped the opening show and let the turnstiles do the job and people got into the ride in the order they got to the turnstiles. THEN because of the Frozen stuff over last summer, they changed it back to the bad old days.

How is it going now?

At DHS -- at least last week in my experience -- they are not doing an internal rope drop/opening show. They are letting guests (blissfully) filter in once entering the tapstyles. Awesome way to walk (with purpose) to Toy Story Mania for a first ride.

Meanwhile, at Animal Kingdom...internal rope holding at Discovery Island until 8:45. :-(

 

[Saturn23]

Disney doesn't seem as much a vacation as it is a competition. You start competing 6 months ahead of the trip for BOG dining reservations. Then you compete for A&E or 7D fast passes at 60 days. Then compete to get to the front of the turnstiles at opening or with a dining reservation. A lot of the fun gets lost.

 

[Zola]

Disney doesn't seem as much a vacation as it is a competition. You start competing 6 months ahead of the trip for BOG dining reservations. Then you compete for A&E or 7D fast passes at 60 days. Then compete to get to the front of the turnstiles at opening or with a dining reservation. A lot of the fun gets lost.

Agreed! The planning involved to get to see and do what you want without spending prohibitive amounts of time in line is getting to be too stressful to be fun.

 

[ssreward]

Disney doesn't seem as much a vacation as it is a competition. You start competing 6 months ahead of the trip for BOG dining reservations. Then you compete for A&E or 7D fast passes at 60 days. Then compete to get to the front of the turnstiles at opening or with a dining reservation. A lot of the fun gets lost.

Granted, that's sorta part of what some of us LIKE about Disney - it's fun to win! I love every time I grab a hard to get FP or ADR just because *I* knew to be on at 12:01et 180 days out (or 60) while the huddled masses lose out...if I wanted no plans or totally open options, there's places for that too but not really WDW 2015 - the beach or Club Med come to mind (or even *gasp* Uni, where you can buy FOTL)

 

[mommajo143]

I'm just curious about A& E- because yes, I made a pred RD ADR @ BOG & on another day I have one at CP... After FPP window opened I decided we should try to capitalize on being in the park for ADRs... we have every intention of going to these, and have always enjoyed CP before the park opens with no reason other than avoiding the crush at RD & not using up valuable early morning park touring time eating...plus the added benefit of characters at CP ... Anyhow, I had planned to go straight to A&E after our ADR - we have a FPP on another day & I would like to drop it... Is the heard all headed to 7Dmt or is it reasonable to think we may be able to see A&E with a short wait on one of these mornings? What a mess.

 

[Marbel]

Epcot is doing the advancing rope thing too, right? They did it when I was there a couple of weeks ago. We were the very first family at the tapstiles and then with the advancing rope drop, all the lines disappeared and everyone was a huge clump, then we were let in and hoards of people passed us. Needless to say, we were not first in line for Test Track (or 10th or 50th).

 

[edolee]

This whole thread makes me sad.....seeing the worst in some people, how selfish some have become. Disney can truly be a magical place, but so many people are ruining it for others. The only reason I shoot for a pre-park ADR is so that I can get a few pics in front of the castle without the sea of people behind us. I make FP's for the rides and meets and are a "must" for my family. People that make reservations just to get to a ride and don't actually eat there? That thought would never even have crossed my mind!! That just seems absurd to me! I have seen too many times my last few visits, how some people are just all out for the fun of THEIR family with no concern for others, and I think that's just horrible. I've had people push us out of the way for a parade spot, I've had people let their children shove their way in front of mine to take a picture or play with something interactive. It's just sad. The magic of Disney happens on its own, we do not need to go out of our way to FORCE it to happen. Everyone's children deserve to have a magical vacation, whether that means just a breakfast with a princess, meeting their favorite character, or experiencing Main Street without all the people. They paid just as much as you.

...

I find this a really intriguing post. And something that has always fascinated me about attitudes on these boards about what it means to be a gracious guest at Disney World.

First, I COMPLETELY agree with "sadness" regarding the rudeness I sometimes see at Disney during parades, fireworks, attraction queues... Pushing, obstructing others view, cutting in line. I find these things at best annoying, and at worst dangerous. I've not been to Disney after "Selfie" sticks became popular, and have thankfully since been banned... I can only imagine the mischief that some guests could muster with them. This post is not about these types of boorish behavior. I would hope we can all agree they are unacceptable. (I should note... I have far more often seen acts of kindness and helpfulness. I hope all of us on these boards will help others in the parks that are less experienced, or simply in need of a kind word.)

My interest is in the seemingly common thought that if we follow Disney policies, we are being greedy or immoral in some way. One raging example of this was under the old fastpass system. If your fastpass had a return time of 10am-11am, the Disney policy was to basically ignore the 11am aspect. In other words, after 10am the fastpass was good for the rest of the day (note that this was POLICY, not an oversight). Some people, including me, used this policy to great benefit. Others CHEERED during the transition to fp+ when Disney started enforcing the 11am aspect of the return time, claiming that the "cheaters" were finally getting their just desserts! Similarly, we have "throw away" nights at Camp Wilderness, FP+ on spare non-ticketed Magic Bands, and now skipping breakfast at BOG (while paying the fee) to get an advantage on getting in line.

Frankly, I don't see ANY similarity between the former set of problems, and the latter examples.

An illustrative situation... Disney publishes a "park opening" time every day for each park. Yet, on many days, they actually open the park early. I doubt any of us would wait outside the park for the published opening time, nor consider it greedy or immoral to go in when invited. Yet we are getting an exta 15-30 mins of park time we did not pay for. I presume the reason none of us feel guilty about this is it is so obvious that Disney wants it that way. No one things twice about it, yet the print is JUST as real as the return time on those old paper fast-passes.

I see no difference between this example and the other items I mentioned (The old fastpass window, throw away room nights, extra magic bands, and yes, skipping breakfast at BOG to maybe get on a ride early... I am sure there are plenty more.).

My Question: Do you consider these examples loopholes that Disney has not been smart enough, or for some other reason unable to close? How should we know which ones go too far and become immoral in your eyes? I am not being deliberately obtuse here... Sometimes when I find a clever (in my mind) approach to park touring, I am afraid to be branded greedy/immoral by the Dis-board morality posse.

My simple (I think) attitude:
1) My family and I will be gracious and helpful to other guests in the park.
2) If it is Disney policy, or if Disney is silent on a matter, I will do what is in my own family's best interest, including (years ago) riding Peter Pan hours after the fastpass had, on paper, expired.

Ed

 

[Pemeberly]

I don't think it's the worst in people. I don't think booking a reservation you have no intention on using makes you a bad person. It might make you rude. Or annoying, especially if it's blocking people who actually want to USE that spot (for breakfast or camping or whatever). Right now, making and not using an ADR isn't against any real policy. It's against the spirit of the whole thing, but you're not violating any rules to do it. If it becomes bothersome (meaning lots of false bookings) Disney will shut it down. They'll make it a set price (which BOG breakfast pretty much is. 19.99 for gown-ups, 11.99 for kids) and make you pay in full, in advance like CRT. You'll still be free to make, and skip, you reservation, but it will cost you a lot more to do it and it will give some people (but certainly not all) pause.

If simply following the rules and nothing more makes you a good person, then I guess so. To me, a "good" person does the right thing because it's the right thing whether or not there's a clear cut rule laid out that tells them so.

I do see your point, though. I think we've all done something self-serving without caring about others. Maybe not to this extent of booking a limited-resource, popular ADR with no intention to use it, but still. I've probably stolen someone else's parking spot because it was easier, or kept news to myself so I could have first pick. So yeah, I don' think that people who this are inherently "bad" people. They are pretty selfish, though, and I think it's part of the "bringing out the worst" the the PP was referencing. We all have the worst in us, but most of us keep it under control.

 

[Pemeberly]

I find this a really intriguing post. And something that has always fascinated me about attitudes on these boards about what it means to be a gracious guest at Disney World.

First, I COMPLETELY agree with "sadness" regarding the rudeness I sometimes see at Disney during parades, fireworks, attraction queues... Pushing, obstructing others view, cutting in line. I find these things at best annoying, and at worst dangerous. I've not been to Disney after "Selfie" sticks became popular, and have thankfully since been banned... I can only imagine the mischief that some guests could muster with them. This post is not about these types of boorish behavior. I would hope we can all agree they are unacceptable. (I should note... I have far more often seen acts of kindness and helpfulness. I hope all of us on these boards will help others in the parks that are less experienced, or simply in need of a kind word.)

My interest is in the seemingly common thought that if we follow Disney policies, we are being greedy or immoral in some way. One raging example of this was under the old fastpass system. If your fastpass had a return time of 10am-11am, the Disney policy was to basically ignore the 11am aspect. In other words, after 10am the fastpass was good for the rest of the day (note that this was POLICY, not an oversight). Some people, including me, used this policy to great benefit. Others CHEERED during the transition to fp+ when Disney started enforcing the 11am aspect of the return time, claiming that the "cheaters" were finally getting their just desserts! Similarly, we have "throw away" nights at Camp Wilderness, FP+ on spare non-ticketed Magic Bands, and now skipping breakfast at BOG (while paying the fee) to get an advantage on getting in line.

Frankly, I don't see ANY similarity between the former set of problems, and the latter examples.

An illustrative situation... Disney publishes a "park opening" time every day for each park. Yet, on many days, they actually open the park early. I doubt any of us would wait outside the park for the published opening time, nor consider it greedy or immoral to go in when invited. Yet we are getting an exta 15-30 mins of park time we did not pay for. I presume the reason none of us feel guilty about this is it is so obvious that Disney wants it that way. No one things twice about it, yet the print is JUST as real as the return time on those old paper fast-passes.

I see no difference between this example and the other items I mentioned (The old fastpass window, throw away room nights, extra magic bands, and yes, skipping breakfast at BOG to maybe get on a ride early... I am sure there are plenty more.).

My Question: Do you consider these examples loopholes that Disney has not been smart enough, or for some other reason unable to close? How should we know which ones go too far and become immoral in your eyes? I am not being deliberately obtuse here... Sometimes when I find a clever (in my mind) approach to park touring, I am afraid to be branded greedy/immoral by the Dis-board morality posse.

My simple (I think) attitude:
1) My family and I will be gracious and helpful to other guests in the park.
2) If it is Disney policy, or if Disney is silent on a matter, I will do what is in my own family's best interest, including (years ago) riding Peter Pan hours after the fastpass had, on paper, expired.

Ed

I think at the very least reserving a limited-resource breakfast (BOG) with no intention of using it goes against the first point of your simple attitude: how is reserving a spot that is clearly in high demand for other reasons being helpful and gracious to guests? You're certainly not helping them get the reservation you wanted!

 

[Zola]

I'm just curious about A& E- because yes, I made a pred RD ADR @ BOG & on another day I have one at CP... After FPP window opened I decided we should try to capitalize on being in the park for ADRs... we have every intention of going to these, and have always enjoyed CP before the park opens with no reason other than avoiding the crush at RD & not using up valuable early morning park touring time eating...plus the added benefit of characters at CP ... Anyhow, I had planned to go straight to A&E after our ADR - we have a FPP on another day & I would like to drop it... Is the heard all headed to 7Dmt or is it reasonable to think we may be able to see A&E with a short wait on one of these mornings? What a mess.

I'm in the same spot and wondering about that too. We have ADR for 8:15 at BOG-- my daughter wants to see the rose and the beast's castle! - and I'm really hoping we can see A&E after breakfast instead of using our 9:40pm FP!

 

[WillBanksMom]

So what happened today? Anybody there?

 

[trainingupmy4princes]

Its ok, you could call me out personally and I wouldn't be offended, because we still got to see Anna and Elsa with only a 20 minute wait as opposed to a 4 or 5 hour wait like it was at the time. I realize that people like to call others out for being selfish, or greedy, and that people love to throw around the word "fair", but honestly, this is Disney World, not Animal Farm. Nothing in life is "fair", not even in the Magic Kingdom. Its every family for themselves. The only thing that anyone really should worry about during a vacation is their own family's experience. I've said this many times here on the Dis', I don't give two hoots about anyone else's family. If there is something I can do to make my experience better, I'll do it. I paid the no-show price, and it was worth every penny.

WOW. While I often tell my children life isn't fair , I would never ever want them to have the mentality that their happiness is more important than basic kindness and decency. And yes, I have let children scoot in next to mine at parades and put my wiggly daughter on my lap so someone could have a seat on the bus. Because you can't have magic in a world of me first people.

 

[edolee]

I think at the very least reserving a limited-resource breakfast (BOG) with no intention of using it goes against the first point of your simple attitude: how is reserving a spot that is clearly in high demand for other reasons being helpful and gracious to guests? You're certainly not helping them get the reservation you wanted!

Fair point.

For my own purposes, I would probably eat breakfast with my family at BOG rather than paying the cancellation fee. But a LOT of the rationale for going would be a small line at a headliner early in the day. (Note that this one will never be on my conscience ;-) hard enough to drag my family to rope drop, let alone an hour earlier!

I think what I am hearing from you (and in other posts) is that it is largely about intent... I "intended" to go to breakfast, but could not due to illness, or other reason, rather than, "I just spent $40 with the intent of getting in 7DMT early".

So for these "policy allows", "just because it is allowed" areas I guess we must follow the Blue Fairy's advice, and let our conscience be our guide.

Ed

 

[BigAlsGal]

Thanks for the heads up OP! I didn't expect it to last long. I was really shocked they allowed it to go on as long as they did.

 

[PoohsHunnyBee]

Disney doesn't seem as much a vacation as it is a competition. You start competing 6 months ahead of the trip for BOG dining reservations. Then you compete for A&E or 7D fast passes at 60 days. Then compete to get to the front of the turnstiles at opening or with a dining reservation. A lot of the fun gets lost.

It's always going to be a competition when you have such a vast number of visitors compared to the capacity of the popular rides and restaurants. The only way for Disney to make it not a competition is to find a way to increase capacity to correspond with popularity.

 

[alvernon90]

Waaaaaiiiit...

People get early breakfast reservations just to get on the mine train? Seriously?

I don't think it is "just" to get into any particular line. There is the experience of being in the restaurant, the experience of being in the park before opening, and everyone who pays for a meal is provided with food (which is necessary to sustain life). Even those who bail and pay the fee are getting more than an early start in just one line.

But what the OP was complaining about was being put under house arrest while the rest of the guests who did not have ADRs are free to go wherever they want in the park.

 

[karen4546]

If the park opens at 9 and i am done eating after my early ADR then I do not expect a CM to hold me back at 9. And, i can't tell you how many times i have been at a park that actually held people until opening. They normally let you in a few minutes early.

I have 3 8 am adr's for BOG on my upcoming trip. I just want walk through an empty park and then eat breakfast. If I happen to be given the okay to go to 7DMT then great if not great. But, don't hold me back at park opening. That just wouldn't be fair since I paid for admission just like everyone else and they aren't being held back.

Btw, everytime I have eaten at Tusker House with early ADR, we have ridden the Safari and sometimes EE before the crowds get back there. (EE after eating at Tusker House is not always the best idea though)

 

[crostorfer]

WOW. While I often tell my children life isn't fair , I would never ever want them to have the mentality that their happiness is more important than basic kindness and decency. And yes, I have let children scoot in next to mine at parades and put my wiggly daughter on my lap so someone could have a seat on the bus. Because you can't have magic in a world of me first people.

I don't.

I think you make your own magic in life. I don't think that making a reservation and essentially paying a $10 no show fee in order to not wait 5 hours to meet Anna and Elsa, (this was back in the days when they were in Norway), is a play against basic kindness and decency. I think that is a smart play, and an idea that I read here, on the Dis. I'm all for tips and tricks to save a wait time. When you cut to the chase of it, isn't that why we are all here on this message board? We trade tips, tricks, secrets, and "inside" info in order to make our stays more "magical". If we are on this huge pedestal of fairness, aren't we all being unfair to the novice, first time visitor, just by being members here? Its harder for a novice to have magic in a world full of experts.