Boardwalk…and 2042 for that matter…

[Sandisw]

True story. Even as an owner you cannot reliably get Standard View 100% of the time. We get a better shot there but I especially like the better shot at BW View when only preferred is left. Feels more worthwhile for the point upgrade than Garden/Pool View.

Actually, it was the change of ease in getting SV at BWV that made it easier to sell them.

What was really easy when we first bought in 2012 for Columbus Day and Memorial Day weekends became harder.

Of course, falling in love with RIV helped too!!

 

[TheDailyMoo]

Having said that, BWV is getting a little tired and could use some serious refurb. We just got back from a split stay between RIV and BWV. No contest, Riviera blew BWV out of the water in every regard.

Lastly, anyone comparing Swolphin to BCV/BWV/RIV is looking through some seriously rose-colored glasses. There is simply no comparison. The last time I stayed at the Dolphin (1 night in 2022) there was mold in the bathroom, paint was peeling, and the couch had som much febreeze on it I bounced back up when I tried to sit down.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you because I would rather stay at BW or BC 100 out of 100 times however I will say Swan is not that bad at all! Last two years I've stayed there I've been upgraded and this last time in particular was a corner suite which really exceeded my expectations. It's just Disney feeling enough for us to fit the bill. And this last trip we rented BWV points and stayed in a studio and like you mentioned it was extremely dated and the bathroom looked like an old grandmother's house and the toilet and AC didn't work half the time. Again I would take the Disney property if given the choice but Swan really can be a great stay for the right price!

 

[BeachClub2014]

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you because I would rather stay at BW or BC 100 out of 100 times however I will say Swan is not that bad at all! Last two years I've stayed there I've been upgraded and this last time in particular was a corner suite which really exceeded my expectations. It's just Disney feeling enough for us to fit the bill. And this last trip we rented BWV points and stayed in a studio and like you mentioned it was extremely dated and the bathroom looked like an old grandmother's house and the toilet and AC didn't work half the time. Again I would take the Disney property if given the choice but Swan really can be a great stay for the right price!

I can understand your point, and I might feel differently if I had been upgraded, but I wasn't. The room I was given was horrible. The only redeeming quality of the Swolphin is that, with the right pair of shoes and two bottles of water, you can walk to Epcot or Studios, with a stop for a G&T along the way at either boardwalk or beach club.

 

[TheDailyMoo]

I can understand your point, and I might feel differently if I had been upgraded, but I wasn't. The room I was given was horrible. The only redeeming quality of the Swolphin is that, with the right pair of shoes and two bottles of water, you can walk to Epcot or Studios, with a stop for a G&T along the way at either boardwalk or beach club.

Lol yeah I know they've been renovating but nothing is worse than getting an old musty room. I will say though Fuel at Dolphin is the only place outside of Poly to get a Dole Whip! I've run in there a few times before closing to grab one and it hits the spot! Swolphin fills a need in that area but of course I'd rather the Disney properties any day.

 

[TheDailyMoo]

On a related note the price of BWV and BCV can't be overpriced forever. There has to be a point where prices fall off a cliff. I understand the concept of holding and using or renting till the end rather than give it away but the reality is people need money and they need to sell for a variety of reasons. With 10 years remaining who is paying a premium? 5 years? Will the price move down in a controlled line or will there be a point it just drops 30-40% a year. It'll be interesting to see.

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

On a related note the price of BWV and BCV can't be overpriced forever. There has to be a point where prices fall off a cliff. I understand the concept of holding and using or renting till the end rather than give it away but the reality is people need money and they need to sell for a variety of reasons. With 10 years remaining who is paying a premium? 5 years? Will the price move down in a controlled line or will there be a point it just drops 30-40% a year. It'll be interesting to see.

As a BCV owner, I find this interesting too. I would imagine at some point some of the bigger contracts start selling for less than half of the ~$130 per point they go for now if people need to raise cash after 2035ish…but I don’t see why they would decline more quickly than most other resorts for the next 10 years. If the economy crashes all the resorts could plunge further (especially if interest rates stay high) but if you aren’t desperate for cash, you can easily rent your BCV points for $20 (more if you hold prime holiday bookings) so much below 100 it’s probably worth the hassle to rent instead.

 

[crisi]

As a BCV owner, I find this interesting too. I would imagine at some point some of the bigger contracts start selling for less than half of the ~$130 per point they go for now if people need to raise cash after 2035ish…but I don’t see why they would decline more quickly than most other resorts for the next 10 years. If the economy crashes all the resorts could plunge further (especially if interest rates stay high) but if you aren’t desperate for cash, you can easily rent your BCV points for $20 (more if you hold prime holiday bookings) so much below 100 it’s probably worth the hassle to rent instead.

I think that selling for BWV owners (and I'm one) involves doing the math on renting it. I could sell it today. Or I could make $8 a year or more in profit for the next eighteen years. So points are (ignoring time value of money, my effort, renting risk, the taxes I suspect few bother to pay, etc) worth around $150 to me.

I also suspect that people who have bought and held DVC for this long don't tend to need the cash - in our case, we bought 20 years ago. The kids are through college, we are in our good pre-retirement years, and are well positioned for retirement - and the cash flow during retirement might be nicer than the one time influx. We just don't have anything we need to/want to spend five figures in cash on that we don't have other sources of five figures in cash.

Of course, each year this math will change - fewer years, higher dues - but possibly higher rental rates. And BWV will likely continue to be a "good renter" - especially if I'm willing to make spec reservations over F&W. But as long as renting out my points is more profitable long term than selling them, I don't see BWV owners selling unless they need the cash in hand. So I don't see it as "falling off a cliff" as much as "slowly decreasing in value" - and eventually, it just won't be worth the bother to buy resorts ready to expire - and your only choice as an owner will be use your point, lose your points, or rent them.

The same math works for BCV owners and frankly will apply as each resort ages - if you can rent for more than the value of the points - why sell unless you want the cash in hand, or don't want the bother of renting.

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

I think that selling for BWV owners (and I'm one) involves doing the math on renting it. I could sell it today. Or I could make $8 a year or more in profit for the next eighteen years. So points are (ignoring time value of money, my effort, renting risk, the taxes I suspect few bother to pay, etc) worth around $150 to me.

I also suspect that people who have bought and held DVC for this long don't tend to need the cash - in our case, we bought 20 years ago. The kids are through college, we are in our good pre-retirement years, and are well positioned for retirement - and the cash flow during retirement might be nicer than the one time influx. We just don't have anything we need to/want to spend five figures in cash on that we don't have other sources of five figures in cash.

Of course, each year this math will change - fewer years, higher dues - but possibly higher rental rates. And BWV will likely continue to be a "good renter" - especially if I'm willing to make spec reservations over F&W. But as long as renting out my points is more profitable long term than selling them, I don't see BWV owners selling unless they need the cash in hand. So I don't see it as "falling off a cliff" as much as "slowly decreasing in value" - and eventually, it just won't be worth the bother to buy resorts ready to expire - and your only choice as an owner will be use your point, lose your points, or rent them.

The same math works for BCV owners and frankly will apply as each resort ages - if you can rent for more than the value of the points - why sell unless you want the cash in hand, or don't want the bother of renting.

Yes—this is a more articulate version of the point I was trying to make. If dues and rents stay roughly where they are now, it doesn’t make sense to sell below $100 for several years unless you are hard up for cash. Then, the time you get to $50/pt or less, unless you have a huge contract, it’s almost not worth the transaction costs for the seller, buyer, or (and the profit would also be small for the broker).

 

[TheDailyMoo]

I think that selling for BWV owners (and I'm one) involves doing the math on renting it. I could sell it today. Or I could make $8 a year or more in profit for the next eighteen years. So points are (ignoring time value of money, my effort, renting risk, the taxes I suspect few bother to pay, etc) worth around $150 to me.

I also suspect that people who have bought and held DVC for this long don't tend to need the cash - in our case, we bought 20 years ago. The kids are through college, we are in our good pre-retirement years, and are well positioned for retirement - and the cash flow during retirement might be nicer than the one time influx. We just don't have anything we need to/want to spend five figures in cash on that we don't have other sources of five figures in cash.

Of course, each year this math will change - fewer years, higher dues - but possibly higher rental rates. And BWV will likely continue to be a "good renter" - especially if I'm willing to make spec reservations over F&W. But as long as renting out my points is more profitable long term than selling them, I don't see BWV owners selling unless they need the cash in hand. So I don't see it as "falling off a cliff" as much as "slowly decreasing in value" - and eventually, it just won't be worth the bother to buy resorts ready to expire - and your only choice as an owner will be use your point, lose your points, or rent them.

The same math works for BCV owners and frankly will apply as each resort ages - if you can rent for more than the value of the points - why sell unless you want the cash in hand, or don't want the bother of renting.

Yes—this is a more articulate version of the point I was trying to make. If dues and rents stay roughly where they are now, it doesn’t make sense to sell below $100 for several years unless you are hard up for cash. Then, the time you get to $50/pt or less, unless you have a huge contract, it’s almost not worth the transaction costs for the seller, buyer, or (and the profit would also be small for the broker).

Needing money is only one reason to sell. When I was talking to my broker at Fidelity she mentioned a lot of low priced sales are unfortunately due to illness or death or no relatives or no relatives want it so there are a number of reasons I can see that would have owners selling even at 5-10 years left. And one thing I've noticed keeping an eye on resale contract prices is that when someone wants out, you can tell. They price a contract aggressively. But then you say ok there won't be as many contracts being sold because of the renting and usage that you pointed out. So maybe supply and demand alone keeps the prices afloat. And this all is independent of ROFR being a factor. It's very interesting to me thinking of the economics of a 2042 resale contract.

Also at some point will OKW which is already in the 70s sometimes go for mere pennies on the dollar a la other timeshares? Will it be artificially propped up? Again a fun thought experiment which will eventually have an answer.

 

[DanCali]

To the OPs point, most of our contracts expire in the 2060s (AKV in 2057), but we did recently buy a small BRV contract for similar reasons cited in post #5.

I still think the WDW 2042 contracts are grossly overpriced but resale prices are what they are - if I won't pay the "going price", someone else will (some of these are off the market in less than 12 hours...) Maybe it's rational, maybe it's irrational, but it is what it is... I view it as "knowingly" overpaying and I wouldn't do it with more than 50 points at any 2042 resort. Kind of how, even though the odds favor the house, I'm ok with the red chip tables at Vegas but not the green chip ones.

I hope the optimists are right because I'll be happy to use this contract for 15 years, sell it, and recover much of what we paid! I doubt that will be the case...

 

[crisi]

Needing money is only one reason to sell. When I was talking to my broker at Fidelity she mentioned a lot of low priced sales are unfortunately due to illness or death or no relatives or no relatives want it so there are a number of reasons I can see that would have owners selling even at 5-10 years left. And one thing I've noticed keeping an eye on resale contract prices is that when someone wants out, you can tell. They price a contract aggressively. But then you say ok there won't be as many contracts being sold because of the renting and usage that you pointed out. So maybe supply and demand alone keeps the prices afloat. And this all is independent of ROFR being a factor. It's very interesting to me thinking of the economics of a 2042 resale contract.

Also at some point will OKW which is already in the 70s sometimes go for mere pennies on the dollar a la other timeshares? Will it be artificially propped up? Again a fun thought experiment which will eventually have an answer.

I guess the point I'm making is that while you will probably be able to get some "deals" on BWV due to the sorts of stuff you talk about - illness, death, divorce, the need for cash - prices will remain "higher than they should be for the life of the contract" due to its value as a rental - so if you want it and can afford it, buy it without waiting for a projected huge drop in the next few years that may or may not come.

 

[tom1944]

There were 3 sales recorded yesterday for BWV they went for 100 to 115 per point.

There were several others but they were either transfers or foreclosures

There were also 2 very small point contracts.

 

[AdamsMum]

But do I feel giddy already just thinking about staying there, especially around the holidays? Yes absolutely!! That to me, is where the value is, no matter it's a 2042 resort or not.

This was me when I bought Boardwalk. Granted that was in 2007 and my points cost me $87pp. (still was a lot for me in 2007). The 2042 resorts don't make anything resembling financial sense in 2023. Here's the "but", when I first got off the friendship boat and looked around the Boardwalk Resort, I knew this was where I wanted to stay. Until then we usually stayed at POFQ and I still miss it a little bit, but I still get excited when the 11 mth window is coming up to book my next stay at BWV and I'm still excited to stay there and sad when I have to go home.

If you love Boardwalk Villas and want to stay there at popular times of the year, the 7 month window will make you sad.

 

[Epcot Forever Forever]

You’re getting some tough advice here @Kidanifan08 . I think a lot of it is based on perceptions and assumptions instead of numbers and facts.

The points themselves are very valuable at BWV because the point chart is so generous for standard view rooms, which are generally inaccessible for non-BWV owners.

If a room is $700 a night and 10 points, you are getting $70 of value out of each point. At VGF a room might be $900 a night but at 25 points a night they’re only getting $36 of value - half of BWV’s.

I posted the quoted text above a while back. It remains true that you can get $70 PER POINT in value out of BWV points in a single use. $62 after dues. It’s not even that hard to get $50+ in value. Most stays in standard view rooms at BWV are far, far better Returns on Investment than any other accommodation in the entire DVC project. And for owners, they’re not THAT hard to get.

So 2042 or not, you can get great value out of BWV.

When people say it’s overpriced I really struggle with that. I don’t think it is at all. BCV is a little overpriced. The other 2042s are right on what they should be given their expiration IMHO.