Board Title (Please Read)

[padalyn]

Oh yea...one more word to question...

On the east coast "queer" usually is taken as gay or some permeation there of.

From what I recall on the west coast the word was "weird".

Seems the meanings flip somewhere around the Mississippi, at least they used to.

Is this still true?

 

[cybertheo]

This reminds me of that scene from "jeffery" when Olympia D. says,
"I love my pre-op transgender lesbian son".

This may have been brought up already, but, in 5 or 10 years from now there will be some other new word that we "should" be using to describe the same old things.

I tried to read the wikipedia article but it had a lot of BS. However, I do like the idea of using "Ze" when refering to myself or anyone. It just sounds cooler and edgier than the old words I was using.

 

[PghLybrt]

I don't really care which labels you choose to apply to yourself, but, I will try to use them as you do. (Hence, I will call someone a "fairy" or "the word I'm not allowed to use" if they introduce themselves that way even though I think that one is offensive and PghLybrt thinks that the other is offensive.)

I know this is sort of off topic, but I reread my posts. Did i actually say I thought a certain word was offensive? If i did I am sorry that I was misunderstood. If any of you ever meet me in person you will learn that my mouth is no better than a truckers. The words I use (especially in the community) do include everything from Queer to ****, and I embrace them all.

 

[hematite153]

I know this is sort of off topic, but I reread my posts. Did i actually say I thought a certain word was offensive? If i did I am sorry that I was misunderstood. If any of you ever meet me in person you will learn that my mouth is no better than a truckers. The words I use (especially in the community) do include everything from Queer to ****, and I embrace them all.

No, sorry. I mixed up your post with padalyn's. I'm usually good at attributing things to the right people, but, I got it wrong.

Sorry to both of you.

 

[Timon-n-Pumbaa Fan]

If we want to go around blasting labels then we should never have embraced the pink triangle as a symbol of unity. Geez talk about a negative symbol and label (literally!).

OK - I am going to climb back into my fire retardant suit now ....

No flames coming from me, but I would like to address the Pink Triangle. Yes, that pink triangle had a rather sorted past. God bless the souls that were lost due to the Nazi oppression. But, when the Pink Triangle did make a comeback and it was embraced as a symbol of unity and strength, it had been decades since it had been seen or used to identify someone as GLBT. It's reserrection coincided with the AIDS crisis in the early/mid-80's and since the AIDS crisis was being called a Gay Holocaust, it made sense that the Pink Triangle symbol was reclaimed and even empowered.

Sometimes, it takes decades for the hurt to be extinquished from word and symbols. Sometimes, it is good to turn hurt upsidedown and draw strength from it's lessons. But, time is the ultimate healer of all wounds.

 

[Timon-n-Pumbaa Fan]

Oh yea...one more word to question...

On the east coast "queer" usually is taken as gay or some permeation there of.

From what I recall on the west coast the word was "weird".

Seems the meanings flip somewhere around the Mississippi, at least they used to.

Is this still true?

Being an unhip 40-something, yes, in the circles that I run in, queer is still associated with gay men. It seems to be true with my friends in AL, GA, TN, and NC. I can't speak for the younger crowd or the other areas of the south.

 

[Timon-n-Pumbaa Fan]

This reminds me of that scene from "jeffery" when Olympia D. says,
"I love my pre-op transgender lesbian son".

This may have been brought up already, but, in 5 or 10 years from now there will be some other new word that we "should" be using to describe the same old things.

I tried to read the wikipedia article but it had a lot of BS. However, I do like the idea of using "Ze" when refering to myself or anyone. It just sounds cooler and edgier than the old words I was using.

I love the movie Jeffery! That line always makes me giggle.

You are correct. At some point, the thought police are going to have us using a whole new set of politically correct verbage to describe/label everyone.

I can't say that I would ever adopt the use of "Ze".....I am far from needing to embrace cool or edgier vocabulary.

 

[ChrizJen]

I just wanted to chime in and add why I feel that the OP is completely justified in his concern with the title of this board.

I think that it's a crying shame how we, as a community, are so divided and exclusive! It's amazing to me that other minority groups, while they may have their differences, ALWAYS seem able to come together and fight for the good and betterment of their respective people. When the need is there to rise up and FIGHT, they are always there as one with a common goal.
Take the African American community for example. Obviously, there are many different religious, political, and social divisions within the community. But when there is a cause to be won, you'll usually see those differences st aside, and what you get is one cohesive unit working together to make a change.

Yet, we as a community cannot seem to come together in the same way. As displayed recently with the Employment Non-Discrimination Act (ENDA), we are so willing to throw many of our own under the bus just to gain a little ground. Why would we be willing to settle for anything less than total inclusion when it comes to rights for our community??!?!?!

I know that for some G/L folks, it may be difficult to wrap your head around the idea of being Bi-sexual or Transgendered. So does that mean we just close our minds and hearts to it and pretend that it doesn't exist? We as a community CAN NO LONGER afford to do this!!! We need to get over our fear, or ignorance, or just plain "it doesn't affect me directly so it's not a big deal" attitudes!!! We will NEVER get anywhere as a community if we continue to divide and discriminate among our own people!

Anyway, off my soapbox...Thanks, OP for bringing this issue to our attention...I too, am ashamed that I never thought of it before.

 

[RickinNYC]

I just wanted to chime in and add why I feel that the OP is completely justified in his concern with the title of this board.

I think that it's a crying shame how we, as a community, are so divided and exclusive!

I think the sentence I highlighted above is way over the top for the vast majority of us, and far too harsh a judgement call. I think what this discussion boils down to is lack of education by way of schooling and also due to limited life experience. Some of us didn't have the option to study this in college, some of us have never met a transgendered person, some have never met someone who identifies as bi. I'll be the first to admit that my contact with transgendered folks has been severely limited and I live in NYC.

Just because I'm gay or your lesbian or he's a transgendered female-to-male does NOT make all of us aware of absolutely everything under the sun that is appropriate in language, behavior, demeanor or attitude. No one here is perfectly educated and knows all. To think otherwise is nonsense. Give us all the benefit of the doubt and an opportunity learn more without belittling or degrading anyone.

Rather than stating that our community is divisive and exclusive out of choice, perhaps those that feel excluded, whether being transgendered or bisexual, education is a better course of action as opposed to placing harsh, take no prisoners, judgements.

The mods here have heard your statements and we're discussing this privately. If you have suggestions, PM me, Mike and Viki and we'll take all into consideration. Bear in mind that it's pretty clear that we will not be able to make everyone happy. This is an age old argument in our community, whether lesbian comes before gay, whether the use of the word queer is appropriate or offensive, etc... Whatever we decide is the best course of action isn't the end. It would be appreciated if some of you don't instantly think we're intentionally offensive or hurtful. We're learning as well.

 

[DVCajun]

Wow.....

Adultist.....

Go get'em kid.

Y'know, Timon-n-Pumbaa Fan, given your age, experience and the self-declared fact that you were once a "dumb kid" just like the OP, you'd think you could display a bit of restraint and kindness to someone who is clearly struggling with the same kinds of issues that most of us on this board have faced. I've read the entire thread and at best you've come across as condescending, at worst, disrespectful. Give the kid a break, willya??

Invisible Children, I know this discussion has touched a lot of buttons for you (and for others, apparently), but I think that your input has been received respectfully by all but one person. I wouldn't throw away the chance to be a part of a cool community if I were you. This topic has sparked some heated comments, and has touched on hurts that most of us have or will experience at some point in our lives. This forum is overwhelmingly friendly and supportive -- hang around and see for yourself.

btw -- I lived in Lexington for a loooong time. Howdy neighbor!

 

[CanadianGuy]

DIS-CLAIMER:
I make my comments not as a moderator on the DISBOARDS but as a frequent visitor and card-carrying freak-poster on THIS forum...

Anything that encourages understanding and acceptance and helps to make our community more inviting and inclusive to those who sometimes may feel 'left-out' ... I am all for that.

Growing up 'different' [however you define that/whatever it means to you] has turned out to be both and a blessing and a curse sometimes.. but being able to share and talk thru some of those downsides (and upsides!) with people who have been down that road is very helpful.

It can sometimes illuminate your own path...

It really can be a lifeline sometimes.

These boards can provide that illumination, that lifeline. And whether or not the mods choose to change the name, this discussion has been very educational for me. And information and education are as good a reason as any to have this discussion.

Well that, and I like learning stuff.

Invisible? Oh I don't think so! You are not invisible to me.

Thanks,

Knox

PS> The card I mentioned in the DIS-claimer.. does that get me a discount on anything? I'm just sayin..

 

[Timon-n-Pumbaa Fan]

Y'know, Timon-n-Pumbaa Fan, given your age, experience and the self-declared fact that you were once a "dumb kid" just like the OP, you'd think you could display a bit of restraint and kindness to someone who is clearly struggling with the same kinds of issues that most of us on this board have faced. I've read the entire thread and at best you've come across as condescending, at worst, disrespectful. Give the kid a break, willya??

If you knew me, you would know that the comments that I posted, might have sounded harsh, but I am just doing the same for him as was done for me, back in the day, by the GLBT elders of my community, that helped me grow beyond being that self titled "dumb kid". That kid that was head strong, self centered, cocky, full of energy and ideas, most of which are still way beyond the scope of our world accepting. I was given some harsh criticism back then myself. My elders challenged me, much like parents challenge their children in teaching them life lessons to prepare them for the real world. They gave me reasons to get mad, grow, and come up with better answers to the question of "Why?" Without being challenged by my elders, I would have never have been able to stand up to the homophobic people in my life and in my community. Because, trust me, those people in the real world were way more challenging and much meaner than the elders ever were. I have great respect for those people now. I didn't care for a few of them at the time, but I know that I am a stronger and wiser person today because of their efforts.

Like I said, I do see a lot of the old me, that "dumb kid", in Tyler. It's not to say that it's a bad thing, but I do feel that challenging him, and the rest of you, when appropriate, is not the worst thing that will ever happen on this board.

And....FYI, I did laugh at the word "Adultist"....it was cute and showed his age perfectly. The fact that that was the worst thing that he could think to post on the open forum, it made me chuckle. And as for the words that I posted....Go Get'em Kid, that was a sincere plug for the kid not to give up. I don't expect the kid to give up. He has many fights ahead of him.

Again, if you guys really knew me, you would know that I had the best interests of the Tyler and our DIS GLBTQ community at heart in all of my comments.

 

[rosiep]

Oh yea...one more word to question...

On the east coast "queer" usually is taken as gay or some permeation there of.

From what I recall on the west coast the word was "weird".

Seems the meanings flip somewhere around the Mississippi, at least they used to.

Is this still true?

DD works at PSU for Queers and Allies. I think the younger generation has embraced the term because it covers various gender identities.

(This topic came up with my sister not 10 minutes ago...spooky. )

 

[cybertheo]

Just a thought...
How about change the name to the 'dis'gender forum?

(feel free to throw rotten vegtables at this time)

 

[Timon-n-Pumbaa Fan]

Just a thought...How about change the name to the 'dis'gender board?(feel free to throw rotten vegtables at this time)

Won't Dad get mad if we start a food fight?*

 

[DVCajun]

If you knew me, you would know that the comments that I posted, might have sounded harsh, but I am just doing the same for him as was done for me, back in the day, by the GLBT elders of my community, that helped me grow beyond being that self titled "dumb kid". That kid that was head strong, self centered, cocky, full of energy and ideas, most of which are still way beyond the scope of our world accepting. I was given some harsh criticism back then myself. My elders challenged me, much like parents challenge their children in teaching them life lessons to prepare them for the real world. They gave me reasons to get mad, grow, and come up with better answers to the question of "Why?" Without being challenged by my elders, I would have never have been able to stand up to the homophobic people in my life and in my community. Because, trust me, those people in the real world were way more challenging and much meaner than the elders ever were. I have great respect for those people now. I didn't care for a few of them at the time, but I know that I am a stronger and wiser person today because of their efforts.

Like I said, I do see a lot of the old me, that "dumb kid", in Tyler. It's not to say that it's a bad thing, but I do feel that challenging him, and the rest of you, when appropriate, is not the worst thing that will ever happen on this board.

And....FYI, I did laugh at the word "Adultist"....it was cute and showed his age perfectly. The fact that that was the worst thing that he could think to post on the open forum, it made me chuckle. And as for the words that I posted....Go Get'em Kid, that was a sincere plug for the kid not to give up. I don't expect the kid to give up. He has many fights ahead of him.

Again, if you guys really knew me, you would know that I had the best interests of the Tyler and our DIS GLBTQ community at heart in all of my comments.

Well, y'know, something I respect above almost all else is "realness" and the courage to call it like it is, regardless of the consequences. So, naturally, I like you. ;-) But I'm a big, strong girl and I can stand up for myself. I can even relish a good debate, assuming there's dessert afterwards. But when it comes to the vulnerable among us, some restraint is called for. Those elders who chastised and molded the young you probably did so in person -- and with a healthy dose of love and respect. At least I hope that was the case. Because such lessons can be hard to take if they're from a face-less stranger on a website.

 

[invisible_children07]

I'm not a kid
stop calling me one
thanks

 

[hematite153]

I'm not a kid
stop calling me one
thanks

I don't think that I have, but, I'll pay more attention, just in case.

However, for perspective...

I'm roughly twice your age and I still get called "kiddo" ALL the time. I think that for some people it is a term that applies to anyone 10 or more years younger than themselves.

 

[cybertheo]

I'm not a kid
stop calling me one
thanks

True. Ze is a teenager or a "18 year old Queer FTM Transman" so 'Du-ude' might be more appropriate, unless it is now too gender specific. In which case, I will run to wikipedia to look up the new edgier gender correct catch phrase.

 

[ChrizJen]

I think the sentence I highlighted above is way over the top for the vast majority of us, and far too harsh a judgement call. I think what this discussion boils down to is lack of education by way of schooling and also due to limited life experience. Some of us didn't have the option to study this in college, some of us have never met a transgendered person, some have never met someone who identifies as bi. I'll be the first to admit that my contact with transgendered folks has been severely limited and I live in NYC.

Just because I'm gay or your lesbian or he's a transgendered female-to-male does NOT make all of us aware of absolutely everything under the sun that is appropriate in language, behavior, demeanor or attitude. No one here is perfectly educated and knows all. To think otherwise is nonsense. Give us all the benefit of the doubt and an opportunity learn more without belittling or degrading anyone.

Rather than stating that our community is divisive and exclusive out of choice, perhaps those that feel excluded, whether being transgendered or bisexual, education is a better course of action as opposed to placing harsh, take no prisoners, judgements.

The mods here have heard your statements and we're discussing this privately. If you have suggestions, PM me, Mike and Viki and we'll take all into consideration. Bear in mind that it's pretty clear that we will not be able to make everyone happy. This is an age old argument in our community, whether lesbian comes before gay, whether the use of the word queer is appropriate or offensive, etc... Whatever we decide is the best course of action isn't the end. It would be appreciated if some of you don't instantly think we're intentionally offensive or hurtful. We're learning as well.

I re-read my post, and it does read as sort of "angry".
I'm sorry if my post came across as a stab at any one person here, or anywhere for that matter. I didn't mean it that way at all. If it came off that way, I truly am sorry. I guess what started as empathy on my part for the OP quickly became a soapbox for my views on our community as a whole. I do, however, back up the statements I made that we as a community (no one person or sub-group being singled out) need to set aside our differences and come together if we ever want to have the rights we so desperately seek. It was my observation that we sometimes take the attitude that if it doesn't directly affect me, then it's not important. I've seen it on the issue of marriage rights, and I've seen it in regards to the ENDA that I mentioned in my last post. I did use the word "ignorance" in my post, but I only meant it in its pure, unadulterated form, as in "the act of ignoring". In other words, I only mean that we cannot just ignore entire portions of our community if we ever want the population in general to accept us. (But that wasn't directed at the mods or anyone here in particular.)

I think that the folks here on these boards are probably some of the most intelligent, informative people I know. Again, the statements I made were not directed towards you or any one particular person here on the boards. Just a general statement to the community that we need to come together. And you're right! We very much do need to educate people.

No name-calling or belittling meant at all, and I'm sorry that it sounded that way. Please accept my apology.
-Christal