Best & Worst Pirates discussion

Discussion in 'The DIS Unplugged Podcast' started by Clare Voince, Dec 30, 2017.

  1. TheMaxRebo

    TheMaxRebo DIS Veteran

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    I agree that it has been a good conversation and I must say there have been a few topics lately that i feel there was a largely positive/constructive discussion on these boards that have seen get like instantaneously ugly on Facebook, etc. So I think that is definitely a good thing

    Not sure if people are being that tough on Claire - for the most part I think it was people just offering up why they felt the structure of the show didn't lend itself to the broad discussion and require inviting extra people on just to briefly talk about one topic (among 10 things on the show), especially when they had already covered it in more depth on their regular weekly podcast.

    As to the more recent posts I think it is just to the part where she is disappointed there hasn't been a response from the team - when we don't even know if they have seen anything that they could respond to - and that they need to acknowledge their error (when, again, the structure of the show is such that it might not be an error) - that she is "owed" something ... not the topic in general
     
  2. disneyland_is_magic

    disneyland_is_magic Mouseketeer

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    @TheMaxRebo I can't speak for others but I want you to know I didn't expect them to debate it or represent all sides of the discussions. Of course not, it's not the format or set up.
    But I did wince when Pete wrote it off as nitpicking. I think many people have thoughts that are quite eloquent. Sexual exploitation of women is hardly a baseless discussion after 2017.
    It's taken so long for this dialogue to start, and Disney with one of their most prized employees on leave due to this discussion, it's so relevant.
    Am I going to stop watching? Of course not, but this has been a good follow up to the show discussion. That's what I was looking for and again, I am glad we are having it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2018
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  4. TheMaxRebo

    TheMaxRebo DIS Veteran

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    I fully agree with what you are saying - I think giving the impression that it is a worthy topic of discussion and not "nitpicking" would perhaps have been more appropriate. My commentary has been more about why they didn't have any women on the show (which is what the OP indicated should have happened) - and I don't see it as them not wanting to give women a chance to talk or something (as a note - in the past there has been a female host of the main show and when there was negative criticism of that Pete took time to speak out against that), it was just that is the standard line-up, and they didn't change the structure by bringing in "guest speakers" or something just to for the sake of it
     
  5. Cornish Lad

    Cornish Lad Mouseketeer

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    But to change history to suit current culture is imo totally wrong and just bowing down to the pc brigade once again. Nobody made a mistake - they gave their honest opinions so just accept that and move on.
     
  6. HopperFan

    HopperFan "It's a bug-eat-bug world out there, princess."

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    In reverse, changing the lineup would not necessarily change the points of view on the panel ........ because I think they were discussing an attraction at a theme park ... not attempting to start a conversation on society.

    If it were a conversation on society, I would hope that there would be at least one male that would have supported the conversation right now even if they had no female participants. But I was watching a Disney theme park show and it is not where I am heading for this complicated and serious conversation. The show was about most talked news, it was data wise in the top 10, they touched on it with each of their views. It didn't get deep and they moved on to the next news. Agree that a normal show needs no special guests.
     
  7. bladiator

    bladiator Disney on my mind

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    You do this and then you have stuff like that horrible Stephen A. Smith and Skip Bayless show where they pretend to always be opposite sides of things. :)
     
  8. disneyland_is_magic

    disneyland_is_magic Mouseketeer

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    I am on my way to a computer science class but I have to object to the comment we are trying to change history.
    No one is trying to change history, but we are trying to change the PRESENT. We have already established that just about every woman has been sexually mistreated.
    We also have rampant problems with disproportionate pay or women not getting promoted to leadership roles. I found myself in that position. I had a much higher workload then of a male coworker but made $15,000 less and little I could do about it but walk away.
    We are fighting to get some bad social norms fixed. I left my career and am working on second degree to help break the barrier. I sit in classrooms still 80% or more of males. It's a lot of work to be in a field where I HOPE to receive equal pay.
    Does everyone think we need to change this attraction? No and that's fine, that's completely fine, but please, please, please quit dismissing this discussion as baseless whining from the "pc brigade."
     
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  9. ThistleMae

    ThistleMae Pandora is Even Better than Imagined!

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    I would hope no one is trying to minimize the exploitation of any human being. Isn't the issue here about whether the Disney ride, the Pirates of the Caribbean, supports exploitation by having this scene in their ride?
     
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  10. HopperFan

    HopperFan "It's a bug-eat-bug world out there, princess."

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    No one has established this, no one ever will and I think it's inappropriate to state this as a fact. When one does this it minimizes the rest of the conversation and minimizes the impact to those who actually were.


    Yes. It IS a THEME PARK ride.

    If only Walt could talk but I doubt the point of this was supporting exploitation.

    And one "offensive" scene is being removed,
    while all the rest are staying,
    along with other offensive stories through the parks ......
    ..... outrage is a funny thing.
     
  11. TheMaxRebo

    TheMaxRebo DIS Veteran

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    First, I am sorry you and many other women have had to experience what you did - it is obviously something that needs fixing and having conversations about it and recognizing that there is an issue is required to move forward

    As I have mentioned I don't think this ride needed to stay the same - it isn't a museum and updating it so more people can enjoy it makes sense. That said, I still see it as a ride about pirates who are bad people and do bad things - these are people being honored or put out there as something to follow and model your behavior on ... rather it is things you shouldn't do. Personally, for having an impact on the current environment I think taking down the bust of Bill Cosby made more sense than having to change this scene (I know it is apples and oranges)
     
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  12. disneyland_is_magic

    disneyland_is_magic Mouseketeer

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    @HopperFan you are right, I apologize, I was trying to rush (and was worked up) and very poorly worded what I was trying to say.
    My sincere apologizes if I took away from the validity of the conversation for anyone.
    Your earlier post analyzing the park was very good and I was glad to hear the report on Paris. I hope it will be done as well here.
    Thanks for alerting me to my mistake.
     
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  13. ThistleMae

    ThistleMae Pandora is Even Better than Imagined!

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    Exactly...outrage is a funny thing.
     
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  14. DisneyKingpin

    DisneyKingpin Mouseketeer

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    For those in favor of the ride change (and I’m still not sure if I’m in that group), it may be comforting to know that Bob Iger and the Disney board of directors is, in some ways, that representative voice in this discussion.

    Nobody has done more to empower women, minorities, and the LGBT community than Bob Iger and Disney. Despite rouge employees like John Lasseter, Disney IMO has been a beacon of hope for these groups for many years - both inside the company (for employees) and inside its parks and products (for guests/customers). You can even see the progress in its movies with female heroes and lead characters (Merida in “Brave,” Ray in “Star Wars,” Riley in “Inside Out.”)

    We can keep giving feedback to Pete Werner and his team. And Pete and his team can keep giving feedback to Bob Iger and his team.

    But as long as Bob is the top dog in the Disney community, I think Disney will always give an empowering and respectful voice to women.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
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  15. SeanWM48

    SeanWM48 Mouseketeer

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    they're entitled to their opinion. not everybody is going to agree with everything you want them to. not even addressing whether or not the ride should change - i really don't have a problem with them changing it - but i do think these guys should be able to address any issue (disney related) they want on their podcast/show. if they feel a certain way about it, by all means be honest and deliver a genuine take.

    i respect pete and his crew. i don't always agree with them either but that's part of why i keep listening in. we don't need them handling their viewers with kid gloves.
     

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