Best Strategy for a trip in 2022? Lower Your Expectations

[Miffy]

Today's our last day of a week-long trip. I'm leaving for the airport in about 15 minutes.

I'd like to add something to the OP's headline: lower your expectations AND increase your budget.

We had a great stay--onsite at POFQ--and enjoyed our trip immensely. However, we did not enjoy the gambling aspect of trying to plan every day at 7 a.m., often getting up at 5 a.m. since we knew that we'd have to get out of here immediately after we lined up our iLL$/G+ for the morning.

the G+/ILL$ method takes a lot of strategizing unless you're someone who's in the parks from open to close. We are not those people. How this is better for off-site guests, I have no idea. This is our 2nd trip with G+/ILL$ and we still don't know what the best strategy is for us, although we have a better idea now than we did for our December trip.

If you have unlimited funds (we do not--although I wish we did!) and stay in the parks from open until close and stay onsite, then G+/ILL$ probably work out okay for you. And you wouldn't mind the hugely inflated prices of everything, especially the resorts.

Even so, you might not take too kindly to being kicked out of your ILL$ booking while it's in the payment phase and then not be able to get an ILL$ for the desired ride. You also might not like basically having Disney plan your day for you, since you'll be stuck with whatever time they give you (even for ILL$, as often when they drop new times, only one specific time is available).

And you might be frustrated at the Tip Board, which, unless you go through the Genie (not G+) process of telling them a hundred different things, defaults to MK! I mean, MDE knows what your park rez for that day is. What the heck? And if you do go through Genie and tell them what rides you want, then your My Day portion of MDE will be forever littered with suggestions for things you don't give a rip about--and those suggestions are ABOVE your actual plans.

I cannot imagine that a tremendous amount of careful thought was given to the Genie system. I don't care what any other poster may suggest. Try using this system and see what you think. If you come out of it and say, Wow! This is amazing! It's perfect! Just what I wanted! . . . then you are Disney's perfect guest and/or one of the IT wizards who designed it.

 

[T'Lynn]

I can't help but wonder ... if Disney had never had the FP+ option ... would G+ be as tough to take?

This whole concept of planning 3 rides prior to your trip was unique to Disney. I can't think of another theme park that ever had that. And I think it was pretty beloved by those visiting the parks. I think everyone expected it to become a paid service at some point and for obvious reasons they couldn't leave it just as it was but what they have introduced seems to be just so bad.

For me, it's not the 7 am, it's not the availability of rides "selling out" ... it's the times changing. I suppose in the old days of FP you wouldn't know your time and you took what you got but then they created a whole new experience of selecting times and now that is just .... gone.

I do think if we hadn't had that to begin with this would not be received so badly but come on ... they couldn't get that to work???

 

[TiggerBouncy]

Feedback is dependent on who you ask. If 75% of the people they 'polled' were offsite guests, then, yeah, they are going to get feedback that supports the opinion of offsite guests. And, I don't have the numbers, but 75% of park guests probably are offsite.

But, if you're going to charge outrageous resort prices for staying onsite, you're making more money off that demographic. Therefore, that demographic should be favorably weighted in those opinion polls.

If you believe - which you clearly seem to - that Disney has treated onsite guests equally in their decisions the last 3-4 years, then it's pointless for me to try to convince you otherwise. That said, since you brought up the internet and social media as measuring tools, then compare the number of positive responses your position has received in this thread compared to mine.

I do not believe that Disney has treated onsite guests equally, nor do I think they should. That was never what I said. I said that A COMMON COMPLAINT is that FP+ for Tier1 rides were difficult to obtain at the 30/60 day mark and this was a consideration during the development of G+.

Your position is that you either:

1. Deny that there are posts / complaints dating from 2017-2019 that FP+ are impossible to get at 30/60 days
OR
2. Deny that Disney read, cared, or considered such feedback

#1 is very easy to disprove. They exist. Period. Done. And not a rare thing, but many of them (several a day pretty much). So if you are claiming #1, that's proven incorrect.

So I can assume your issue is with #2. Which basically implies that the IT people in Disney are SSOOO disconnected with every other IT person basically in the entire planet industry-wide. I know some of their IT people - and sure, none of us are fans of Disney IT, but they are still hired from the industry, trained from the industry, and follow the same work protocols as most of the industry. They are mandated to consider such things in their requirements phase. When I was a development manager, if any of my projects didn't use such sources, I would have read them the riot act... and I personally had a number of associates in similar positions to mine within Disney back from my DME days and know they followed the same rules. We also KNOW that Disney was considering this feedback based on survey questions that were asked during that time. So I claim that #2 is justifiably incorrect.

I have said more than once that it's not a black and white thing. I said - more than once - that Genie was not JUST to address FP+, nor was it based entirely and only on social media feedback.

But if you believe they didn't take feedback into consideration when developing the product, that's just not true.

As for the number of likes, that totally doesn't matter. If you start a thread on the boards today that says Disney sucks, you will get 1000 likes. If you say Disney is great, you will get 5. Yet Disney still does well. Because it's popular to come on here and talk about how much we hate Disney, but not popular to say how much we like it. That's the world of social media. Disney does understand this- which is why I have repeated that Social Media is not the ONLY consideration. But it is ONE of them.

 

[zillayen]

I'm kind of looking forward to the G+ system at our visit next week because we're very last minute planners. We've never booked a WDW trip more than 30 days ahead and it's usually like 2 weeks, lol. Under the old FP+ system we never even had a chance to book FP+ for the headliners because they were all reserved months in advance.

We had APs at DL for years and are very familiar with the paper FP system so I'm happy I don't have to trek all the way across the park! We're used to just getting whatever's left once we get inside the park. And being able to book at the start of the day instead of after you scan into the park is great because I do think it lets us plan our day a little bit more. So, I agree that it's tough to adjust if you were very good at navigating the old FP+ system, but it might work for some people who are more spontaneous.

 

[gharter]

Otherwise, if you just wanted a 'room', why not spend substantially less and buy into another timeshare company? Disney and the increased value of those rooms is what made it such a coveted timeshare.

You answered your own question. Most other timeshares don't hold their value over time, let alone increase. We purchased our points about 6 years ago. Currently, we could sell if we desired. The current price would cover what we paid, all of our dues (so our trips would have been free) and still have money left over. Very few timeshares can do that.
Will this continue into the future? Hard to tell.

 

[Delirium]

I do not believe that Disney has treated onsite guests equally, nor do I think they should. That was never what I said. I said that A COMMON COMPLAINT is that FP+ for Tier1 rides were difficult to obtain at the 30/60 day mark and this was a consideration during the development of G+.

Your position is that you either:

1. Deny that there are posts / complaints dating from 2017-2019 that FP+ are impossible to get at 30/60 days
OR
2. Deny that Disney read, cared, or considered such feedback

#1 is very easy to disprove. They exist. Period. Done. And not a rare thing, but many of them (several a day pretty much). So if you are claiming #1, that's proven incorrect.

So I can assume your issue is with #2. Which basically implies that the IT people in Disney are SSOOO disconnected with every other IT person basically in the entire planet industry-wide. I know some of their IT people - and sure, none of us are fans of Disney IT, but they are still hired from the industry, trained from the industry, and follow the same work protocols as most of the industry. They are mandated to consider such things in their requirements phase. When I was a development manager, if any of my projects didn't use such sources, I would have read them the riot act... and I personally had a number of associates in similar positions to mine within Disney back from my DME days and know they followed the same rules. We also KNOW that Disney was considering this feedback based on survey questions that were asked during that time. So I claim that #2 is justifiably incorrect.

I have said more than once that it's not a black and white thing. I said - more than once - that Genie was not JUST to address FP+, nor was it based entirely and only on social media feedback.

But if you believe they didn't take feedback into consideration when developing the product, that's just not true.

As for the number of likes, that totally doesn't matter. If you start a thread on the boards today that says Disney sucks, you will get 1000 likes. If you say Disney is great, you will get 5. Yet Disney still does well. Because it's popular to come on here and talk about how much we hate Disney, but not popular to say how much we like it. That's the world of social media. Disney does understand this- which is why I have repeated that Social Media is not the ONLY consideration. But it is ONE of them.

Again. Feedback is based on WHO you ask and WHAT you ask.

If 75% of people you ask about FP+ were offsite guests, your feedback on FP+ will be different than if your surveys went to 75% of onsite guests. That's the WHO.

Now, even if 100% of the people you surveyed were onsite, how you ask the question has a big bearing on how they answer.

Do you like scheduling FP+ 60 days in advance? is not going to solicit the same response as....Would you be okay if we eliminated the ability to schedule free FP+ 60 days in advance and instead allow you to pay for something similar you can schedule beginning 7 o'clock the morning you will use it?

I dont think those two 'survey' questions would be answered the same way. Do you?

 

[Jennasis]

I don't see how G+ is attempting to solve any of the issues the people complained about FP+. I know there were complaints (I had some). I know Disney knows what the complaints were. I think G+ primary directive is to generate revenue, not create a satisfied guest experience. Not as an answer to prayer of the guest. It was just to build the bottom line.

The two don't have to be mutually exclusive.

 

[kc51570]

If you believe - which you clearly seem to - that Disney just took a bunch of people, shut them in a room with no feedback, no access to the internet, no information from social media, no requirements, no explanation of what should be done and said "Go build something", then it's pointless for me to try to convince you otherwise, since rational arguments will not sway you. So I am not going to continue to post the same explanation again and again.

All I can tell you is that is not how software development works. Not even at Disney, as much as we hate their IT group.

I remember one or two people in the know who were posting on this site over the summer when there was no FP+ and it was beginning to be a big problem once they repeatedly upped the park capacity without opening more shows, character meet and greets, parades, restaurant, etc.. Seems they could have turned FP+ back on, but would not because they were still testing the paid for system and genie was failing the tests. It was also mentioned this new system was very hotly debated internally with some being for and some being against. That person and their profile disappeared shortly before genie was announced, but after they left some details resembling what the new system would look like. Seems like it was not a unanimous or popular internal decision by far along with failing many initial tests, but ended up being the one that won out since it would generate cash.

 

[RoseGold]

I did G+ the week is opened in October, and it was truly glorious. I was able to cherry pick the best rides, park hop and do the same there. I doubt I'll ever be able to recreate it. It was better than paid concierge level extra FP+

G+ in January, I might as well have just put some money in a Mickey balloon and let it go. Times were so spread out, availability was a joke. I'm not sure if this system is overwhelmed, it doesn't have enough ride allocation, it costs too little, no idea.

I considered myself an expert in FP, and I tried hard with G+, always stay onsite, and I still never been able to book Slinky Dog in six trips.

 

[Kingoglow]

I said that A COMMON COMPLAINT is that FP+ for Tier1 rides were difficult to obtain at the 30/60 day mark and this was a consideration during the development of G+.

Do I believe that those posts exist? Yes.

Was it, in fact, impossible to get FP+ reservations for Tier1 rides at the 30/60 day mark? No, It was not impossible. You could even get within 3 hours of your most desired time window for those Teir1 attractions. It was 100% doable for anyone that bothered to try.

By bothering to try, I mean putting in the same effort and methodology that Genie+ requires of every guest, today. It 100% worked under Fastpass+, but now it costs a family of 4 $60 a day AND Disney has limited the availability of the passes.

Lightning Lane availability disappears so much faster than Fastpass+ ever did; this is without 100% take rate on Genie+ The only explanation is that Disney has shrunk its inventory of passes between the two systems.

 

[DisneyFive]

I do not believe that Disney has treated onsite guests equally, nor do I think they should. That was never what I said. I said that A COMMON COMPLAINT is that FP+ for Tier1 rides were difficult to obtain at the 30/60 day mark and this was a consideration during the development of G+.

Your position is that you either:

1. Deny that there are posts / complaints dating from 2017-2019 that FP+ are impossible to get at 30/60 days
OR
2. Deny that Disney read, cared, or considered such feedback

#1 is very easy to disprove. They exist. Period. Done. And not a rare thing, but many of them (several a day pretty much). So if you are claiming #1, that's proven incorrect.

So I can assume your issue is with #2. Which basically implies that the IT people in Disney are SSOOO disconnected with every other IT person basically in the entire planet industry-wide. I know some of their IT people - and sure, none of us are fans of Disney IT, but they are still hired from the industry, trained from the industry, and follow the same work protocols as most of the industry. They are mandated to consider such things in their requirements phase. When I was a development manager, if any of my projects didn't use such sources, I would have read them the riot act... and I personally had a number of associates in similar positions to mine within Disney back from my DME days and know they followed the same rules. We also KNOW that Disney was considering this feedback based on survey questions that were asked during that time. So I claim that #2 is justifiably incorrect.

I have said more than once that it's not a black and white thing. I said - more than once - that Genie was not JUST to address FP+, nor was it based entirely and only on social media feedback.

But if you believe they didn't take feedback into consideration when developing the product, that's just not true.

As for the number of likes, that totally doesn't matter. If you start a thread on the boards today that says Disney sucks, you will get 1000 likes. If you say Disney is great, you will get 5. Yet Disney still does well. Because it's popular to come on here and talk about how much we hate Disney, but not popular to say how much we like it. That's the world of social media. Disney does understand this- which is why I have repeated that Social Media is not the ONLY consideration. But it is ONE of them.

I would also have to assume that Disney considered feedback from the previous FP systems (paper FP, FP+) when working on G+, however that doesn't mean they designed the new system, in any way, to address the complaints of a particular subset of guests. To say they did is pure speculation.

It's obvious that the #1 reason Disney implemented G+ was to increase revenue and monetize a "virtual queue" system, whatever the system ended up being. Beyond that, it's anyone's guess why they chose to structure the new system the way they did, which is basically the electronic version of paper FP with the twist of $ILL as well.

As we know, any system will be biased towards particular guests: onsite or offsite, technologically adept or not, very mobile or not, willing or pay for system or not, planner or not, early birds or night owls, etc...

Dan

 

[Scalemaster34]

I did G+ the week is opened in October, and it was truly glorious. I was able to cherry pick the best rides, park hop and do the same there. I doubt I'll ever be able to recreate it. It was better than paid concierge level extra FP+

G+ in January, I might as well have just put some money in a Mickey balloon and let it go. Times were so spread out, availability was a joke. I'm not sure if this system is overwhelmed, it doesn't have enough ride allocation, it costs too little, no idea.

I considered myself an expert in FP, and I tried hard with G+, always stay onsite, and I still never been able to book Slinky Dog in six trips.

100% it's a matter of too many guest and too few ride slotss. When a ride like Peter Pan has a capacity of 1000 - 1200 per hour, and the park is open for say twelve hours... at peak it's only going to serve up rides to 12,000 - 15,000 of those guests. Before the Pandemic Magic Kingdom average attendance was around 57K, so it's pretty clear that not everyone can ride every ride, each day.

I used G+ back in December and liked it, but felt it wasn't necessary. But today's crowds... our trip in Feb was a totally different experience. Doing early hours and Deluxe Evening hours helped, but at this point I'd now say G+ and LL are a must. For sure I'd still recommend LL at Epcot and AK now. But DHS and MK, you need to pay for all you can get... and don't expect to get much for your 3rd G+.

And you need two people involved at 7AM... one doing LL and one doing G+. Rise (LL) and Slinky(G+) will not be there if your trying to do one and then the other. Dec we had an issue with our Swan reservation being kicked out of MDE... but was still able to get both after correcting it. In Feb we missed Rise initially, but 30 mins later there was an opening and we took it.... but it was very frustrating.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

I did G+ the week is opened in October, and it was truly glorious. I was able to cherry pick the best rides, park hop and do the same there. I doubt I'll ever be able to recreate it. It was better than paid concierge level extra FP+

G+ in January, I might as well have just put some money in a Mickey balloon and let it go. Times were so spread out, availability was a joke. I'm not sure if this system is overwhelmed, it doesn't have enough ride allocation, it costs too little, no idea.

Yeah, I think the system is overwhelmed. I am willing to bet they did not do any good capacity simulations (probably due to budget / time constraints). They are seeing much of that now, and that's why I bet there are tweaks coming up. Testing a system as big as this is very difficult unless you are willing to put in almost as much time making simulations as you are developing it, and that often gets chopped when push comes to shove to get a new system in place. I have NO DOUBT that played out internally. Happened to us all the time.

Was it, in fact, impossible to get FP+ reservations for Tier1 rides at the 30/60 day mark? No, It was not impossible.

Funny how your text is one line below my post that you quotes which read "FP+ for Tier1 rides were difficult to obtain" You then explain how it's possible (but even by your own definition, I think many would consider that difficult). You do realize that the word difficult is not the same as the word impossible, yes? I never said impossible. I said difficult. You quoted it.

Whether it's less difficult then FP+ is a matter of debate. I think SOME would claim it's a more open playing field so that it's less difficult for some and more difficult for others.

I remember one or two people in the know who were posting on this site over the summer when there was no FP+ and it was beginning to be a big problem once they repeatedly upped the park capacity without opening more shows, character meet and greets, parades, restaurant, etc.. Seems they could have turned FP+ back on, but would not because they were still testing the paid for system and genie was failing the tests. It was also mentioned this new system was very hotly debated internally with some being for and some being against. That person and their profile disappeared shortly before genie was announced, but after they left some details resembling what the new system would look like. Seems like it was not a unanimous or popular internal decision by far along with failing many initial tests, but ended up being the one that won out since it would generate cash.

I have seen many a system released over people's heads and even seen people quit over management deciding to release systems that should never have been released. I have no doubt that this played out internally with Genie, G+ and ILL$. Few systems of this magnitude go out without that kind of internal (heated) challenge. We had one system go out by order of our Director over the filed protests of myself and my QA manager. The Director who made that decision was ultimately moved to another position after both ISO audits and ombudsman internal reviews were completed; but the damage was done anyway.

 

[RamblingMad]

Do I believe that those posts exist? Yes.

Was it, in fact, impossible to get FP+ reservations for Tier1 rides at the 30/60 day mark? No, It was not impossible. You could even get within 3 hours of your most desired time window for those Teir1 attractions. It was 100% doable for anyone that bothered to try.

By bothering to try, I mean putting in the same effort and methodology that Genie+ requires of every guest, today. It 100% worked under Fastpass+, but now it costs a family of 4 $60 a day AND Disney has limited the availability of the passes.

Lightning Lane availability disappears so much faster than Fastpass+ ever did; this is without 100% take rate on Genie+ The only explanation is that Disney has shrunk its inventory of passes between the two systems.

Disney isn't properly implementing surge prices for LL. If it did, the prices would surge to even out the demand.

 

[Delirium]

If you were staying onsite, getting FP+ for an attraction was 'difficult' for some because people were not flexible in what they wanted. Sure, if you wanted a 10:00 AM FP for FOP, Slinky, or SDMT on the first day of your vacation, you were most likely out of luck. Why not try for that FP later in the day, or on a date later in your trip?

We went over Thanksgiving Week in 2018. Holiday week crowds. When I sat down 60 days in advance to schedule my FPs, I didn't even bother trying to grab a spot for those rides early in the week. I attacked from the back of the trip forward. Slinky on our last day (Saturday), FOP on Friday night, SDMT on Thanksgiving Night. No issues whatsoever. Meanwhile, I see posts from others complaining that there are no FPs for the major attractions on Monday morning of that week.

Sure, scheduling FOP and SDMT late in the evening meant we couldn't grab that 4th FP. But, guess what. Despite the crowds, we did every single park attraction that week with the exception of Tom Sawyer Island and the Nemo show in Animal Kingdom. Every single one. And, the only time we waited in line for more than 30 minutes was to see Mickey on Main Street. Plus, we still had time for the pool, to visit Disney Springs, and to play a round of mini-golf.

So many of the people that complained about the lines and the lack of FPs are the same people that get in line for Winnie The Pooh between 11:00 AM-1:00 PM. Anyone that does something like that should not be complaining. That line will be non-existent later in the evening. You're doing it to yourself.

Meanwhile, those 'surveys' we're hearing so much about have resulted in a system that makes it even less likely that you get the date and time you want for an attraction (or, if you do, the system changes it). And, you get charged for it!

By all means, let's put our faith in the survey results.

 

[ppony]

I'm DVC and have 4 trips planned (December 2021, May 2022, Sept 2022 and Dec 2022) and the changes have infuriated me. The fact that I know I'll be back doesn't make things easier to swallow....it makes me mad and sad. that each of those 4 trips will be far FAR less than they should be.

Totally understand. We were owners for about 6 years. It helped to know other visits were on the horizon, but if we were owners now I’d be really sad and frustrated. It’s such a shame. Things really changed, but even w all of it over the decades, the changes over the past year took what was our best trip in 2020.—1 week before Covid shut down— to now be our least enjoyable trip. Never thought that possible.

 

[roctavia]

Funny how your text is one line below my post that you quotes which read "FP+ for Tier1 rides were difficult to obtain" You then explain how it's possible (but even by your own definition, I think many would consider that difficult). You do realize that the word difficult is not the same as the word impossible, yes? I never said impossible. I said difficult. You quoted it.

Whether it's less difficult then FP+ is a matter of debate. I think SOME would claim it's a more open playing field so that it's less difficult for some and more difficult for others.

While it may be a more open playing field, you are still ending up with the same (and actually probably more) amount of people who want to get a pass for a ride and can't. G+ doesn't change that because the capacity is the problem, not when people schedule it. Plus there is the added frustration of paying money for G+ and still not being able to get the rides you want.

The 7am crush for everyone going to the park that day makes it even worse.... especially with how people can think they have a time and then either have it change a lot before they get all the way through booking or end up with nothing at all if you get a glitch or a freeze or whatever in the app/online. Booking at least a little in advance allowed more time to adjust, wouldn't have thousands of people all trying to do the exact same thing at the exact same time stressing the system etc.

There's no going back, but they could definitely make G+ more useful. Being able to modify your time/choose a time would help a lot. Or being able to book the night before or something if not farther in advance.

 

[Westerner]

I don’t think 7am is as big an issue as it first appears. As long as you book by park open there is usually pretty good availability for most rides and you can still book your next G+ LL at park open +2 hours.

 

[BridgetBordeaux]

I don’t think 7am is as big an issue as it first appears. As long as you book by park open there is usually pretty good availability for most rides and you can still book your next G+ LL at park open +2 hours.

The chaos at 7am IS an issue.

By getting a cruddy time like 11:20 for a ride, when it initially said 9:10, has robbed me of the chance to experience my first ride around 9:10 and make my second selection of the day around 9:15.

The difference in ride options is huge when you compare the 9:15 am inventory to the seats open at park open +2 hours.

 

[cgattis]

Testing a system as big as this is very difficult unless you are willing to put in almost as much time making simulations as you are developing it, and that often gets chopped when push comes to shove to get a new system in place.

And THIS is why is chaps my behind so much….I understand projects have schedules and we drive to meet them. However, the ONLY schedule driver here was to START MAKING MONEY. There was no safety issue that had to be addressed immediately, or an event that huge software MUST precede of it would be moot, etc. They crammed this into the market whether it was ready or not so they could start monetizing it regardless of the experience it was going to provide the guests.

And I understand they are a business and have losses to recoup BUT until someone in charge will stand up to corporate greed, have the huevos to tell the board “we WILL recover but it won’t be immediate,” and put the guest ahead of their bonus, this is the NEW face of Disney. I’m itching for a do-over of our disastrous Thanksgiving trip, but at the same time, I just CAN’T give them more money right now.