Best HR Zone for Training & Weight Loss?

MamaCrush

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Apr 27, 2004
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I'm into CP25K Week 5 currently, and I'm training for my first race-- the Halloween Family 5K. The main reason I began running/walking is to facilitate significant weight loss-- and to run through the castle, of course! :love: So here's my question. What heart rate zone is best to both lose weight/burn fat AND increase my aerobic capacity?? Are these two goals mutually exclusive? I've always believed that the best zone to lose weight is 60-75%. Is that too low to also increase my endurance for running? I'm using this 5K as a stepping stone to running the Princess Half at the end of February, so I definitely need to increase my endurance substantially.

Any guidance? Should I exercise at different intensity levels on certain days? I'm so confused! :confused3
 
Let me look up an old and l-o-n-g reply later this evening on this.

The short version is that you need to understand what your training zones are. The 220 - age or any other variant of some number and age simply is not accurate for more than 10-15% of the population. You can set your zones with a rather easy sub-maximal test to find your anaerobic threshold (the point where you essentially stop burning fat as fuel). From there you can set more exact zones that will work for you - not a poor interpretation of a bad statistics application.

The next point is that most treadmills, ellipticals and charts that show a fat burning zone leave a big chunk of work possibility on the table. They are looking at relative percentages of fat /sugar burn. They leave a lot of fat burning capability outside that range.

Again, let me dig up my write-up tonight
 

It is more likely to be work harder and smarter

Good point! But that's okay too. IMO, it makes no sense doing any work if you can't maximize results!

Although, according to the formula for my heart rate (flawed as it may be it's all I have to go on right now...), I was working at 90% for about 30 mins. Heaven help me if it has to be harder than that! :cutie:
 
The best source I've found for heart monitor training is Heart Monitor Training for the Compleat Idiot by John L. Parker Jr.

I found it to be an easy read. It explains how to estimate your max HR, your resting HR and how to determine your zones.
 
Thanks for the book reference, geaux half...

Coach Charles, did you happen to find out that write-up? Or could you provide me some info on that "rather easy sub-maximal test" ??

Thanks, guys!
 
Hi.
I'm not which article Charles was looking for but This one is pretty good for calculating Max HR. I used the 5K race test to get my sub optimal max heart rate. That being said, right now, I wouldn't try training by HR. Starting to run is hard work but your aerobic capacity should improve quickly. What I do is train with a HRM not by the HRM. That is to say, I don't try to keep my heart rate in a certain "zone" but I look at HR data to judge cardio improvement. For example, in May, I completed a 5K race is 43:39 with an average HR of 175 and a Max HR of 190 (220-age says 179 should be my max so it's way off for me). Wednesday, I did a 4 mile training run where was fastest 5K was 42:48 with an average HR of 136 and a Max HR 169. That gives me another measure of fitness improvements.

As far as working out at different intensities on different days. When your first starting out, all of your workouts should be "easy" workouts (even if they all seem hard). That is to say your goal right now is just to run that's hard enough. Don't try to run fast. Once you graduate from C25k (or get into a regular routine), you should probably have 2 types of workouts: Normal workouts, and an easy long workout. Since your just beginning, I would try any formal speed work, or hill work or what might be considered "hard" workouts. If you feel you need to do "speed work", do what are know as imformal fartleks. Every so often you try to go a little bit faster for a short period of time. I probably do them more frequently that I should but I'm still walking with bursts of runnings. If the workout is going well, I pick up the pace the last couple of run intervals. I wait until close to the end so I know it won't affect the entire workout.
 
I agree with jodie, the point of a HRM for fitness and weightloss should be to help you slow your pace down, and see improvement. The old standby of running at a conversational pace is a good guide for training. If you cannot talk to your running partner you are going to fast.
Note that you do not have to talk to them, you just need to be able to.
If you can sing them a song, you should try to pick up the pace. The idea is to gradually build your ability to cover a lot of distance/time, which is easier to do at a slow pace. The longer and slower you can run, the higher percentage of fat burned. See Bingham's Marathoning for Mortals or the Jeff Galloway's books/website for a more detailed description.
http://www.jeffgalloway.com/

And if Coach Charles comes back with different advice, follow his.

Mike
 
Let’s start with the facts/assumptions

1- Everyone is an individual and no one rule works 100%
2- Age formulas are a conservative starting point for setting HR zones but should not be the end all solution to setting zones
3- We work in two regimes aerobic and anaerobic (physiologically there are others but we limit It to these two)
a. Aerobic (with oxygen) is the ‘normal’ metabolic state. Essentially we burn fat with a little sugar as fuel
b. Anaerobic (without sufficient oxygen) is a high level energy burn. Fat burn is nearly non-existent. Almost exclusively sugar fuel used.
4- We store about 1000Kcal of sugar as fuel ready for use in the body (<90 minutes at a high level of work). We have 2+ days fat stored in the body ready to burn…. Even a lean athlete with 3% body fat – no the roll at the waist is not in a form ready to use.
5- Maximum heart rate (HRmax) is a genetically set
a. HRmax varies little through the years
b. It is a star seeing GI emptying event to find HRmax
6- Anaerobic threshold (AT) is the HR where we change from aerobic to anaerobic work
a. It has a genetic component and maxes out between 85 and 90% HRmax
7- AT also has a fitness marker. It will fall to 50% or lower of HRmax in a deconditioned or ill individual. It is a trainable variable (or is changes as fitness changes)
8- Fat is the fuel of choice for endurance activities – but some sugar will almost always be burned during an endurance event. Think of a fat cell as a huge log of energy and a sugar cell as jet fuel. The log will burn long and very hot but a match will not light it off. Conversely, jet fuel flashes instantly with a spark but is gone after the flash. We need a little sugar to keep the fat burring. Oh, and brain food is sugar, also.
9- So at very low end aerobic work (think walk to the fridge from the couch) we burn lots of fat and a little sugar. As we increase the effort (think walk) the amount of fat burn increases but the sugar burn increases just a little faster. As the go into a slow jog the amount of fat burned still increases

What are Zones
So getting that out the way let’s talk about zones. We want to start thinking AT as the anchor for setting zones. The reasons are many but the two larger reasons are that it only requires a sub maximal test to find the value and it is the dividing line from which workouts are separated. One way to think of zones is aerobic zones and anaerobic zones. We use five zones; three aerobic zones (1, 2 and3) and two anaerobic (4 and 5).

Anaerobic zones are to be run in sparingly and with purpose. I tell me classes to not work out in these zones more than 10% of the time. Think speed and power. Zone 4 is AT – 110% AT. This is the zone upper end short 3-5 minute intervals may be run in. Zone 5 is power and explosive moves and is 110% AT to HR max

We have three aerobic zones a warm-up/active recovery zone, aerobic development and aerobic endurance zones. The ranges for these are Zone 3, 90%AT to AT; Zone 2, 75% - 90%AT; and Zone 1 between 65% and 75%AT.
For the purposes of this we will look at two zones 2 and 3. Zone 2 is where you should focus you long run. Let’s say you are running 8 miles try to set a pace where you start in the mid to low zone 2. Adjust effort to keep in this zone for much of the run. It’s OK to allow the HR to drift up during the run. Usually around 75-80% of the way through the long run we go ahead and allow the HR drift to move into zone 3 if we feel well.

The weekday work is mostly a zone 3 workout. You want the mid to end of each interval effort to be in Zone 3; the closer you can peak near AT the more benefit you are seeing.

Back to the original question…
All zones under AT burn fat. Fat use increases as heart rate moves up through zones 1, 2 and 3. It plateaus somewhere in the last 2-4 beat range near AT then fall to zero in the 1-5 beats above AT. Sugar’s burn rate starts to increase just after you start to move as HR increases the rate of increase in the sugar burn rate increases… at a faster rate of increase than fat. At some point in zone 1 up through low zone 3 the amount of sugar burned passes and becomes greater than the fat burn rate. In other words you are burning more sugar than fat. That point is in our zone 1 to low zone 2 is where gym equipment will attempt to set your HR for a fat burning workout. And true if you work at a point higher then the 50-50 mix of fat and sugar you are burning more sugar than fat. But that leaves most of zone 2 and all of zone 3 to work in where you are actually burning more fat than the 50-50 mix.

When I get a deconditioned person in we will stay in their zone 2 for a few weeks so they can get their legs. But as soon as we can we get that person up into zone 3 in a hurry. This does a multitude of things. It burns more fuel and fat. It pushes the AT up and it pulls up the 50-50 point where sugar becomes the predominate fuel. If you work with a well designed plan at the intensities pointed at you can push your AT up to near the maximum genetic point possible AND you can adapt so that the point where sugar becomes the predominate fuel to within a handful of beats of AT. Now this is HUGE. Imagine running mostly on fat near your AT for an entire marathon.

All this to say that you should run long runs starting in zone 2 and work your mid week stuff in zone 3. Oh, maybe once a week or so have fun and push a few intervals into Zone 4 to help with pulling you up any late race hills that may pop up. Slipping into zone 4 on intervals can activate a certain type of muscle cell and make it think it is an aerobic type fiber – giving you just a little more in the tank.

OK – How do I find AT.

There are two ways. One is to get a metabolic assessment at a club offering them. It can be costly in the range of 120-170 for the first test but will give you a complete profile of where your AT is and what your moving Kcal profile looks like.

The other way just requires a treadmill. Hop on and warm up for 3-5 minutes. Set the mill at a pace you may be able to hold for 10 minutes. Forget run/walking for this test. ONE IMPORATNT RULE!!! Do not hold on during this test.

Once you get at that pace note your HR and say a 6-10 word sentence. A couple minutes later say the phrase again. If successful, increase the elevation 2% and run for a couple minutes. Phrase time. If you are still able to talk or you are not feeling like the run is super hard then up 2% and again run 2 minutes. Test again. We keep increasing elevation as before until we find the following. At some point in here you will get to the point where the run is hard. Keep going. We are looking for a couple markers. The first is that you can only say 1-3 words of the sentence per breath. Somewhere in this area you are feeling like the run is very hard and start looking for a way off. KEEP GOING. Once that occurs we then start looking for the point where your jaw starts to open wide. You could not close the jaw if you wanted – this is the body attempting to maximize air intake (i.e. changing from aerobic (with O2 to Anaerobic (without)). Attempt to run another minute at this setting and note the HR. This is your AT.

Note the AT and set your ranges.

Good luck. There is a lot here and even more that one cannot really put in a forum post.
 
Sorry it took so long - had a work issue come up.


NOTE

I also agree with most of what was posted between my posts.

1) Galloway and Bingham offer great advice and an individualized HR zone map should keep you conversational.
2) A lot of what I covered comes from Sally's research. The method I use focuses on the AT rather than HRmax. I think some of her recent publications have moved to AT.


I did forget an important caveate... You need to retst the submaximal test every 6-8 weeeks. You will improve your AT and need to adjust zones.

The benefit of using AT is that it truly is your best set of zones at the given time.

here is a one chart that I carry with me

http://www.lifetimefitness.com/modules/heart_rate/heart_rate_training_chart.pdf

Note in the need to disclose a subtle point on the chart. Yes, for members in a Spinning class; many of who I see for the first time; I do link them to the chart using a formula to find AT. No it is not any better than the other formulas. But with 40 folks in a 1 minute peirood you have to have something as we lead the class to follow this chart. A great case study is yours truly. If I followed the formula my AT would by 137. Through a series of metabolic assessments I know that it ranges from 172 to 180. If I am peaking out the chart would hold me to a low zone 2 workout. Not what I need except in a recovery ride.
 
Thanks, Guys! Wow, Coach, that is great information. Definitely will help my training, I'm sure. It just make a take a while for me to absorb all the info... I guess my math/science teachers were right after all-- that stuff I was learning would come in handy some day!! :) I especially appreciate the chart you posted! :thumbsup2
 












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