Benefits not the same if purchase a resale...is this true?

[mdsd8700]

I think the only "negative experience" disney could be worried about is their negative experience of having competition for their points.

I couldn't agree more!

We are totally new to DVC just bought BLT in June. We bought direct though almost went with a re-sale. Have definately been thinking the re-sale route for when addonitis strikes. From all the threads I have read on these boards I have not read one negative experience about purchasing resale. In fact everyone says that is the way to go. Which leads me to beleive that if this rumor is true it has nothing to do with helping out the DVC member and everything to do with the bottomline for Disney. It would be interesting to hear from the TimeShare Store on this issue. I guess only time will tell, I shall keep up on this thread for any new information.

 

[Vapor Trail]

I had the same experience talking to my "Guide" today at DVC.

I'm considering BLT, but still debating BCV as an option. He gave me the overview sales pitch. We discussed resales. He told me last Friday it was announced that sometime soon resale points owners would have fewer privileges than those who buy direct. Specifically, resale buyers would not be able to stay anywhere outside DVC resorts. No cruises, nothing else.

I asked if resale owners who bought before the pending change in policy would be grandfathered in, but he wasn't sure.

 

[Simba's Mom]

If I understand this correctly, resale points now can only be used at the DVC resorts on property, Vero, HHI, and Hawaii. What they cannot be used for is DCL, Adventures by Disney, and any RCI trades and possibly the Concierge Collection. If that's true, for those of us who only plan to use our points at these DVC resorts, there's no problem continuing to buy resale. And since resale points are now deemed to be less flexible, resale prices might be forced downward and become a better buy for some of us. Am I understanding this all correctly?

 

[Maistre Gracey]

If I understand this correctly, resale points now can only be used at the DVC resorts on property, Vero, HHI, and Hawaii. What they cannot be used for is DCL, Adventures by Disney, and any RCI trades and possibly the Concierge Collection. If that's true, for those of us who only plan to use our points at these DVC resorts, there's no problem continuing to buy resale. And since resale points are now deemed to be less flexible, resale prices might be forced downward and become a better buy for some of us. Am I understanding this all correctly?

Yup.. They may plummet even further.

This affects all of us.

MG

 

[CrazyDuck]

Yup.. They may plummet even further.

Kinda makes ya wonder if they take those features away how long until they allow points at say VB, which are selling in the $40s, to remain in the DVC system..

 

[disneynutz]

The VP / man in charge of DVC.

MG

He is now the President of the DVC and is on the Walt Disney Parks and Resorts Worldwide Operations Steering Committee.

Bill

 

[dis-happy]

Wow. If true, this is major. Didn't Marriott just do something similar re. resales? I hear the sucking sound of the bottom dropping out of the resale market. Wonder if Disney is planning to abandon ROFR.

 

[tjkraz]

Jim Lewis.

Anything else need to be said?
MG

True...but in all honesty if it wasn't Jim Lewis it would just be someone else.

These days Disney seems to be all about separating folks from their money. Tiered dining plan prices, hard ticket events, preferred fireworks viewing, etc. Might as well look right up at Bob Iger and embrace the big picture. Until the corporate philosophy changes, it would seem that all division heads have their marching orders.

DVC's days of a niche club with linen placemats and colored bath towels are long gone.

 

[cseca]

Another thing that I'm finding more and more disturbing is this method of notifying members on need-to-know basis regarding policy changes.
They really need to get a handle on this.

Is there any way this could be brought up to someone higher up than member satisfaction?

Wasn't points reallocation last year released pretty late as well? And then with the valet parking perk taken out with 1 day notice, DCL booking issue and now this?

I understand that certain things are out of their hands but there's such a thing as sending out press releases or whatever they are. So that all members are aware of the changes at the same time. I hate that they are using disboards members as their news release channel now...

 

[toocherie]

If I understand this correctly, resale points now can only be used at the DVC resorts on property, Vero, HHI, and Hawaii. What they cannot be used for is DCL, Adventures by Disney, and any RCI trades and possibly the Concierge Collection. If that's true, for those of us who only plan to use our points at these DVC resorts, there's no problem continuing to buy resale. And since resale points are now deemed to be less flexible, resale prices might be forced downward and become a better buy for some of us. Am I understanding this all correctly?

Correct. Ding ding ding we have a winner!

Let's hope you don't have to sell your points at some future time -- this is NOT good news if true.

 

[IandGsmom]

Wow. I am new to this DVC thing since we just bought into the VGC last month. I already wanted a small add on to Aulani or a small resale at WDW. I hope I get concrete answers soon so I can go with Aulani (my preference anyways)

 

[cseca]

Oh and another thought...
Combine this news with the rumor possibility of trading out points requirement skyrocketting = much much much lower trade out

Which is what they might be shooting for right now to balance out the system... stinks for members but good for the company.

I'm getting butterflies in my stomach thinking about this... lower future resale value, not being able to trade out with reasonable points, tiered membership levels... all sounds bad for everyone except for DVD.

What next? Stopping resservation other than by owners altogether? Assessing high fees for reservations not under owner's name?

I just don't have a good feeling about where this is heading...

I used to talk DVC to everyone who'd listen, I think all these recent changes are making it hard for me to give my DVC spiel to anyone anymore. DVC really is strictly for frequent disney visitors and you better pick a home resort you like with a good use year... For you never know what else would change in the course of your ownership.

 

[Sammie]

What next? Stopping resservation other than by owners altogether? Assessing high fees for reservations not under owner's name?

If renting is throwing things out of balance, then yes I could see this coming.

 

[kristenrice]

OK, after reading a LOT of threads on this board, I have a random thought/question....

First, many folks believe that using points for cruising/RCI/ABD is not the most cost-effective idea on a regular basis. Using points for the DVC resorts is the "best" use of points.

...then, *if* this restriction on resale points goes through and *if* Disney stops ROFR, leading to rock-bottom resale prices....

...wouldn't make using points for cruising/RCI/ABD be even MORE absurd? If you could buy points for, say $40/point at OKW (I am probably exaggerating), why on earth would you buy in at BLT for $100/point just to be able to use them to cruise?

It would seem that if they limit the use of resale points to ONLY the DVC resorts, they would probably see a substantial decline in DVC'rs who use their points to cruise. Obviously, a lot of folks do if the DVC allotment of staterooms is completely full until September 2011, right? If a bunch of DVC'rs stopped cruising because they owned resale points, how full are the ships going to be?

On top of that, for folks like me who have no interest or intention of cruising, trading out or ABD, who would even consider buying from Disney direct if the bottom falls out of resale prices? Disney would have to heavily push the cruising option and ABD to convince people to buy direct.

I don't know a whole lot about the cruising thing. We only own 100 points (*gasp*....RESALE!) and we do not plan on using them anywhere besides the DVC resorts. I am just curious what others think.

Oh, and FWIW, I had a guide tell me that if I bought resale, I still needed 160 points to be considered a member. He told me that 100 would be useless to me until I added at least 60 more. I've enjoyed two wonderful vacations so far on my "useless" points.

 

[disneynutz]

DVC's days of a niche club with linen placemats and colored bath towels are long gone.

What about the thick cardboard drink coasters, you forgot to mention the thick cardboard drink coasters that were replaced with paper ones.

Bill

 

[tjkraz]

Oh and another thought...
Combine this news with the rumor possibility of trading out points requirement skyrocketting = much much much lower trade out

I wouldn't even call that a "rumor". That's more like idle speculation based upon last week's events.

If DVC is limiting trade-outs to just direct buyers, that may have the desired effect to curb DCL bookings. There is always demand for SOME number of DVC villas through CRO. The problem is in controlling that number of points.

Just to throw numbers at it, CRO may be able to absorb 500,000 points worth of DVC villas per year. Some will go unbooked but that percentage can be accounted for. But if that number of points grows to 1,000,000, many more villas will go unbooked than originally projected. DVC would then have to charge more points for a cruise. Lower CRO rental success means they need to charge more points to recoup the cost of the cruise.

So they could bring the economics of trades back into line in two ways:

1. Limiting the number of cruises available for points bookings.
2. Raising the number of points charged per cruise.

It sounds like they are leaning more toward #1 and those policy change--if true--would result in some owners being completely unable to access the cruise inventory. Good news for those who own direct purchases but certainly not good for resale prices.

One question this raises in my mind is how a member will be treated if they own both a direct AND a resale contract. DVC could differentiate between the two. Or this (rumored) policy change could simply be an attempt to get first-time buyers to go direct. After that, owners may be able to add resale contracts with no penalty.

As always, the devil is in the details...

 

[tjkraz]

...then, *if* this restriction on resale points goes through and *if* Disney stops ROFR, leading to rock-bottom resale prices....

...wouldn't make using points for cruising/RCI/ABD be even MORE absurd? If you could buy points for, say $40/point at OKW (I am probably exaggerating), why on earth would you buy in at BLT for $100/point just to be able to use them to cruise?

For the reasons you illustrate, I don't think this would be coupled with an end to ROFR. Cruising et. al. aren't popular enough for Disney to justify charging 2-3 times resale prices.

Any small perks afforded solely to direct buyers would be enough to sway some buyers. Honestly I'm surprised it's taken Disney so long to offer some direct buy perk.

Just not sure I'm thrilled with the particular direct buy perk they have (reportedly) chosen.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

True...but in all honesty if it wasn't Jim Lewis it would just be someone else.

These days Disney seems to be all about separating folks from their money. Tiered dining plan prices, hard ticket events, preferred fireworks viewing, etc. Might as well look right up at Bob Iger and embrace the big picture. Until the corporate philosophy changes, it would seem that all division heads have their marching orders.

DVC's days of a niche club with linen placemats and colored bath towels are long gone.

I agree it is the corporate philosophy, and ultimately Iger is steering the ship. That said, Lewis does have have decision making power, and I don't agree with his decisions. I'm sure he is expected to return a certain profit margin, but I disagree with the way he chooses to achieve those numbers. I am of the belief that linen place mats and colored towels would, in the long run, be a net positive for DVC. I don't think cutting corners for short term game is a good strategy for a company like DVC or Disney overall. It's a great strategy for a company like K-Mart, but Disney has built it's reputation on quality and NOT cutting corners.

I have never complained about paying the high prices associated with Disney. That's because I could always see where my money was going.
I will not pay high prices for mediocrity. Disney and DVC are not to that point yet, but are heading in that direction.

Now, why is it VGC has robes in the room, resort specific pens and other accessories? I don't see any cut corners at VGC. The quality of furniture and even hinges on the cabinets scream quality. Lewis and Iger still in charge there...
But than again, DLR seems to be more immune to cutbacks for whatever reason.

MG

 

[Sammie]

But than again, DLR seems to be more immune to cutbacks for whatever reason

I think the difference is in the size. Smaller operations can sometimes be more profitable without sacrificing quality. I think WDW and the DVC portion of it has gotten so large, they feel the need to cut more corners to save money.

 

[tjkraz]

I agree it is the corporate philosophy, and ultimately Iger is steering the ship. That said, Lewis does have have decision making power, and I don't agree with his decisions. I'm sure he is expected to return a certain profit margin, but I disagree with the way he chooses to achieve those numbers. I am of the belief that linen place mats and colored towels would, in the long run, be a net positive for DVC.

Depends upon how you define "net positive." To outfit the thousands of DVC rooms with such items would add hundreds-of-thousands of dollars to our annual budgets. And how many sales are won or lost based upon towels and place mats?

I don't think cutting corners for short term game is a good strategy for a company like DVC or Disney overall. It's a great strategy for a company like K-Mart, but Disney has built it's reputation on quality and NOT cutting corners.

I have never complained about paying the high prices associated with Disney. That's because I could always see where my money was going.
I will not pay high prices for mediocrity. Disney and DVC are not to that point yet, but are heading in that direction.

My personal take on it is that some little things my have disappeared along the way but I think we have seen marked improvements in larger items.

Compared to the years immediately following our purchase, mattresses are now better. Sofbeds are better. TVs and appliances are being improved. Resorts are getting granite countertops and vanitys. Patio furniture is better. DVD players in studios. Kitchen cookware is of higher quality. iHome radios have been added to villas. Even things like the artwork in villa rooms and those new kitchy table lamps are appealing.

Those items rank higher on my priority list than paper coasters and ballpoint pens. Sure it would be nice to have all of the above, but in the interest of fairness I'll tip my hat to the upgrades and let the non-essentials slide.

Now, why is it VGC has robes in the room, resort specific pens and other accessories? I don't see any cut corners at VGC. The quality of furniture and even hinges on the cabinets scream quality. Lewis and Iger still in charge there...
But than again, DLR seems to be more immune to cutbacks for whatever reason.

MG

I think the difference is in the size. Smaller operations can sometimes be more profitable without sacrificing quality. I think WDW and the DVC portion of it has gotten so large, they feel the need to cut more corners to save money.

Sammie's point makes sense. I've also heard that DL tends to get a little more attention since all of the VIPs live and work right in its backyard.

Even down to park operations, things were run much different out west than in Florida. Most people seem to attribute that to Jay Rasulo's ambivalence toward the Florida resort. Guess we'll have to wait and see if Staggs' leadership leads to any changes.