Believe Key Sold Out

[PirateBrigade]

Yeah, and the current “work around” for lack of FastPass/MaxPass/G+/LL is the VIP tour.

Affordability for the proletariat is irrelevant, because the usage of that $2975 product has exploded in the last 6 months.

Booking on-site to guarantee a reservation is a beloved-by-shareholder, high-margin, revenue move by Disney…the fact we are talking about it is a win for them already. It’s like raising gate prices without raising gate prices

 

[StormyCA]

Saying that staying on site is a 'viable solution' to a lack of reservations is like telling someone whose car has broken down to hire a limo. Chances are more Disney guests can NOT afford to stay onsite than can.

Something is only 'viable' solution if you can afford it.

 

[Dory92130]

Saying that staying on site is a 'viable solution' to a lack of reservations is like telling someone whose car has broken down to hire a limo. Chances are more Disney guests can NOT afford to stay onsite than can.

Something is only 'viable' solution if you can afford it.

Viable = def. capable of working successfully; feasible. -
- yes, on-site stays gets MK holders reservations for whatever desired date;

Affordability is not being argued. I can safely argue chances are many more cannot afford Disney at all than those currently can.

@PirateBrigade - VIP tour absolutely a work around for lines and viable for those who plan+afford it.
-Don't shame those who can afford and choose to leverage VIP tours the entire duration of their tour - don't shame them for not taking a lunch/snack break and optimize every single minute and share resources to max out party of 10 that they use to their advantage. Do I wish I could afford said VIP tour or getting into Club 33 or Royal 21? Sure. Not going to happen unfortunately unless under someone else's grace.

Same for Genie+ and A la carte LL. All these are great margins for Disney. Their last quarter for parks was incredible despite capacity limited still.

There are folk on this very board advocating for even higher gate prices to balance the demand with supply for the interim. There is no easy solution when there's an imbalance at play.

 

[PirateBrigade]

The inherent problem was that old AP was allowing users to drop their per visit costs down to the $20s per visit.

For PR reasons, Disney can’t just come out and say, “people have a ton of money and we want some of that pie.”

Restrict AP reservations, require on-site stays for access, require full price tickets to enter…that’s the only way to move the needle without blatantly charging $7,200 for an unlimited AP (which is $40/visit if you go every other day). Writing was on the wall with Flex Pass and 2019 super-crowds.

 

[Dory92130]

Yep Flexpass was the first iteration.

What wasn't known was the demand for MK product and Disney simply grossly underpriced it with too generous of a product (4-6 slots vs 2 for Flexpass).

I thought that they did a good balance with WDW allowing expansion of slots with on-site stays to make it a clear onsite benefit. With that subtle defined benefit, this whole 'workaround' becomes a marketable perk instead of the consternation it pulls.

Disney WILL maximize its product within reason and bounds that it sets itself to the limit of what is feasible. Fans tend to forget that it's not a nonprofit organization.

 

[PirateBrigade]

Yep Flexpass was the first iteration.

What wasn't known was the demand for MK product and Disney simply grossly underpriced it with too generous of a product (4-6 slots vs 2 for Flexpass).

I thought that they did a good balance with WDW allowing expansion of slots with on-site stays to make it a clear onsite benefit. With that subtle defined benefit, this whole 'workaround' becomes a marketable perk instead of the consternation it pulls.

Disney WILL maximize its product within reason and bounds that it sets itself to the limit of what is feasible. Fans tend to forget that it's not a nonprofit organization.

Yeah, agreed, and I think the true equilibrial price of an unrestricted AP is $6500. That’s $125/week, or the average cost of dinner for two + drinks and tip at Yardhouse. I’d rather be at DL.

I think it’s also that sense of “common ownership” that is pervasive thinking amongst the DLR intelligentsia. That common ownership mentality drives a lot of this angst… DLR isn’t just any for-profit business, it’s viewed as a shared cultural asset, deeply embedded in Southern California identity and politics. Putting out a flawed (underpriced and underperforming) product, and making implicit demands for more money for access is like closing off beach access and/or reserving it for the moneyed elite.

Disney is 100% available to anyone at anytime, if you have the funds. They just didn’t have the guts to say it out loud (actually, maybe Chapek did on a conference call this year…can’t remember anything except the CFO insinuating Disney guests are overweight).

 

[Dory92130]

Yeah, making comments about making more money by cutting down the portion size where we all need to have lower calories anyways was way off and I bet they wished that one back.

Disney is definitely deeply rooted in our culture. Yes, they grossly miscalculated on the MK demand and simply didn't flesh out the What If... scenarios. Given the set of demands they have, closing off the passes was the first corrective move. They are rebalancing buckets every week and bolus releases.

It'll be interesting to see how December shakes out

 

[gelatoni fan]

I don't think the Flex Pass comparison is fair here. Flex Pass had a 30 day window and "good to go" days while the current Magic Keys require those limited reservations covering a 90 day window and no "good to go" days. The Flex Pass is a superior product to the current Dream Key if you didn't need access specifically during Christmas week. I think that a part of the issue is the reservation window. People who want to plan several weekend trips over a month apart such as those who live in Northern California are having a lot of trouble. The lack of "good to go days" also pushes locals to use their precious reservations on weekends when they can enjoy the parks for the full day rather than get their Disney fix every day after work, exacerbating the weekend shortage.

I think the rebalancing of the reservation buckets came a little too late. I don't think anybody expected Disney to be so blatant about limiting Magic Key reservations at the beginning of the Halloween season but I think that led to a lot of the current frustration. Keyholders are now trained to expect a shortage of reservations which as we've seen with toilet paper panics, actually creates a shortage.

From outside the company, we can only guess if the problems stem from Disney's greed or incompetence. Either way, they launched a problematic product and now need to fix the mess. Whether you think the biggest problem is the design of the reservation system, the price of Magic Keys or the timing of the launch before major holidays, it's still Disney's mess to fix.

I think many people are discovering that the company they fell in love with no longer exists and will need to re-evaluate for themselves how they want to interact with the new Disney. If you have money and you decide that booking an on-site hotel or day tickets when reservations are gone is worth it to you, then you can do that. If you decide that Disney is no longer worth it, then you should stop spending with them. Many are sort of in the middle ground who feel cheated by Disney's bait and switch, hoping that by voicing concerns, Disney will take steps to make things better. When the pandemic hit, Disney paused monthly payments after enough people complained so Disney changing something in favor of customers isn't outside of the realm of possibility.

 

[cruisehopeful]

I would have much preferred that the keys had a maximum visits attached rather than blocking reservations so much. For example, make my Dream key expire after 20 visits and let me make a reservation whenever I want during a 12 month window. If I go more than that, they still win because I have to buy another Key or pay admission.

 

[DizMe]

I think many people are discovering that the company they fell in love with no longer exists and will need to re-evaluate for themselves how they want to interact with the new Disney.

This isn't the first time this has happened. I hope that they take note of how it panned out the last time. People expect high quality when paying high dollar at DLR and don't react well when cost goes up and quality diminishes.

 

[kelmac284]

I would have much preferred that the keys had a maximum visits attached rather than blocking reservations so much. For example, make my Dream key expire after 20 visits and let me make a reservation whenever I want during a 12 month window. If I go more than that, they still win because I have to buy another Key or pay admission.

I've said this all along. I think to be the most fair to everyone set a limit per month. You can still do an AP but say you can only go X amount of days whatever seems the most fair. I was thinking maybe 10 days per month. I am SURE they can track that as we know they track EVERYTHING. I have never given a rip if a local person goes every day if they are able or want to. What I do NOT think is fair is when people who can only come once a year or less can't even enjoy their trip because the parks are constantly at capacity. Or someone like myself who lives in the state but not close enough to go more than a few times a year. I always bought the AP because I AM lower income and it was feasible with monthly payments and allowed me to save some money (dining and merch discounts) as well as if I could amortize it out and go enough times I broke even or maybe even saved on a day or two. It allowed me to have a hopper which I could no long afford if I had to buy a day ticket all at once. At the end of the day I just want what is fair for everyone. Everyone should be able to enjoy this park. It should NOT be just for the rich or the locals. Also at the end of the day if you are local you are NOT spending the same as someone who requires airfare or even gas (at these prices) plus hotels, food etc. It really feels like to those of us who are not close enough to go back and forth in a day that we don't matter unless we are rich enough TO stay onsite or buy day tickets. I always said if they limit the number of days ANYONE can go in a month then it spreads it out. I am not a statistition but I always thought if you could give any person say 10 days in a month then they could use them however suits them. 10 days straight, split it up whatever but once you have used your 10 days you can't go again till the beginning of the next month. That way it spreads it out more. At the end of the day whether people want to admit it or not it was so much easier and more fun in my opinion when you could just hop in your car and go. Drive up and buy a ticket and not have to worry about every little thing. Whether people believe it or not it is pricing out a LOT more people. Sure there will always be those that can afford it but there are more and more that can't and it shouldn't be that way. It never was in the past and nothing should be so elitist that it eliminates a lot of the population.

 

[Disney0010]

I fully expect that the price of the MK’s to rise at a much higher rate next year. Disney knows that they’re popular and people will pay. I also expect some tweaks versus this year. In the end Disney is going to do what’s best for “their” bottom line.

 

[dieumeye]

The “problem” always is that there are millions of people visiting Disneyland and those people have many different touring styles.

It’s not accurate to say locals always do X, or out of state travelers always do X, or APs always do X, or day ticket holders always do X, or on site guests always do X, etc.

Generally, it seems that what most people think Disney should do is whatever works best for their touring style. Even when trying to be “fair to everyone” it’s always something that works with that individual’s touring style.

Disney needs a solution that brings in a lot of revenue, that encourages many people to visit, and doesn’t discourage too many people from visiting. It’s obviously a difficult problem because even Disney can’t easily figure it out.

Should a person who is making a once-in-a-lifetime trip get some kind of priority since it’s the only time they’ll be at the park? Or maybe a local who spends thousands of dollars at Disneyland each year should get special perks for being a loyal frequent customer. How do you make it fair to everyone? Does it even need to be fair to everyone?

Maybe it would be “fair to everyone” if they just sold day tickets with standby lines and didn’t have any AP program or Genie+. But obviously Disney doesn’t want to do that, I suspect because it would discourage or eliminate a lot of potential visitors (revenue).

I’m very curious what happened to the (apparently scrapped) membership/loyalty program that was originally going to replace APs. Magic Keys don’t seem anything like the program that was originally hinted at. Was the change due to a hasty reaction to initial low crowds, or did they just change their mind?

I’m not thrilled with the current Magic Key program and am curious what’s going to happen in the future.

 

[Wesley815]

I fully expect that the price of the MK’s to rise at a much higher rate next year. Disney knows that they’re popular and people will pay. I also expect some tweaks versus this year. In the end Disney is going to do what’s best for “their” bottom line.

IMO- they really need to get rid of the monthly payment option. As soon as that started that's when previous version of AP went crazy and caused the park to get packed beyond capacity. Prior to monthly payments the AP program was nice but not insane as it is now (and still hundreds of dollars cheaper.) Wouldn't have to really raise the price much as having to pay full upfront is enough of a "price jump."

It will be interesting to see what happens when renewal time comes around next year for us Magic Keyholders, or if we can even renew.

 

[Disney0010]

Not sure what we will do. We have the Believe Key and visit a couple of days a month. At the current price it’s worth it but if the price rises substantially then we may think twice. We “like” DL but don’t love it. I agree about the payment plan.

 

[jujubiee4]

As Disneyland gets more expensive, many other vacation destinations have gotten cheaper. Flights to Hawaii have been the cheapest I've ever seen them and while the rental car situation did experience some hiccups, especially in Honolulu, that has mostly ended. Kauai and big island are particularly cheap right now. Hotel prices in some cities that used to get a lot of business travel have also come down so cities like San Francisco are more reasonably priced for weekdays than pre-COVID. Places like San Diego and New Orleans have also come down in price a bit.

As someone who goes to Hawaii a lot I still have not seen much change in rental car. Same week
we go in Kauai in January and April is 800-900 dollars. This is using the same well known agencies
we have used for 5 years. Usually we pay no more than 200-250 and that can be a stretch. Using
costco and booking direct. Flights are ok priced but lot of people like a car to explore and get around
like us.

 

[TexasErin]

The believe key no longer being available really has thrown a major wrench into our plans. We like long Disneyland trips since we fly in from Texas. I like to spend 10 days there, with one of those days being a day to go to Griffith Observatory and Hollywood. The other nine days we spend in the park.

We are DVC members and have eight of our ten nights booked at VGC, and have two nights waitlisted. We will be there from 6/4 to 6/14/22. Our plan was for the four of us to each get believe keys and then plan our next trip for like 5/21/23- 5/31/23 so that we got two trips out of our keys. Plus we would’ve taken a weekend trip sometime in October or November 2022 since we have always wanted to see holiday decorations at Disneyland since we have only been there during the summer. I even got in on Sam’s Black Friday Disney gift card deal to have a start on buying believe keys only for the keys to be sold out.

Now I don’t know what to do. Our plan now would mean having to buy for all four of us a five day park hopper and a four day park hopper just for our trip this summer. Then next summer we would have to buy another five day park hopper and 4 day park hopper. And without a magic key or AP, our weekend trip for the fall would be completely canceled. We only take additional weekend trips if we already have an annual pass so don’t have to buy tickets.

So furious with Disney. They really should’ve figured this out. ( And yes, I know there are many factors making this unchartered waters for Disney, such as the pandemic, increased demand, lack of available labor). And I know I will get flamed for this, but I am annoyed with people who book every day just in case they get a wild hair to go. Just because it isn’t prohibited does not mean that it isn’t completely selfish. Now because of that behavior and Disney not having any idea what kind of policy or program to institute, it really means that our trip has turned into a complete cluster. I am hoping that something is worked out since it is still several months away. I know we will have a good time when we get there, but it sure is a headache in the meantime.

 

[Kender]

The imagine key no longer being available really has thrown a major wrench into our plans. We like long Disneyland trips since we fly in from Texas. I like to spend 10 days there, with one of those days being a day to go to Griffith Observatory and Hollywood. The other nine days we spend in the park.

The Imagine Key is still available, but since you're flying coming from Texas you're not eligible for it. It's for SoCal residents only.

The Dream and Believe are the only two keys sold out right now. The Enchant is still available for non-SoCal residents. But it only covers some of the dates you mentioned. The Imagine wouldn't have even covered one day of your June dates.

 

[TexasErin]

The Imagine Key is still available, but since you're flying coming from Texas you're not eligible for it. It's for SoCal residents only.

The Dream and Believe are the only two keys sold out right now. The Enchant is still available for non-SoCal residents. But it only covers some of the dates you mentioned. The Imagine wouldn't have even covered one day of your June dates.

dang it! I got the names of the tickets mixed up. Those name totally throw me off. I was looking at the $949 one that just became unavailable.

Do you have any recommendations for anything that we should do given our situation?

 

[Kender]

dang it! I got the names of the tickets mixed up. Those name totally throw me off. I was looking at the $949 one that just became unavailable.

Do you have any recommendations for anything that we should do given our situation?

I blame Disney making it confusing on purpose . That's the Believe key price (the one this thread is about and the second tier pass available). The names are ridiculous.

Honestly? I don't know. Goes without saying this is uncharted territory.

But if it were me in your position, I would hold out with only cancelable reservations and hold out until the deadline (whatever that may be) to cancel things without penalty. I just stay at a regular off site hotels, though, with generous cancellation policies and drive so my situation is different. Then just hope sales restart before my trip

I would say buy as soon as available again if available again before your trip. The vouchers are good from a year from date of purchase. I would not wait. I would not rely on upgrading tickets as that has clearly burned several people already.