Being Penalized

[sweet maxine]

Since I have 5 children, I understand where "njfamilyof6" is coming from.

Everyone understands that you pay for a room. Whether you're a party of 1, 2, 3, or 4, you pay for a room. If, however, you have more than 4 in your party, then your options at Disney become more limited unless you can afford to spend more money. Significantly more money. It's not about the rate per person. It's that Disney is a pro-family place and therefore one would expect more options than currently offered for families with more than 4 people (plus 1 infant).

Of course anyone with a large family expects to pay for it. No one is looking for a handout. However, there are fewer options for larger families at Disney without the cost becoming prohibitive.

What is surprising is that there aren't more larger, more moderately priced rooms (say somewhere between a moderate and a deluxe) that can accomodate larger families, but aren't as expensive as booking 2 rooms, the ASMU Family Suites, or a 2 bedroom villa.

People with large families are very much used to paying more. That goes with the territory. Still, IMHO Disney could do more to accomodate this key group of vacationers, and charge us appropriately for it.

Bingo!

 

[njfamilyof6]

I am a single mom with a 12 yr old daughter. I have to pay a full cruise fare for her because it is just 2 of us. No kid fare for us. Also at hotels, I have to pay for a room with 2 beds and only put 2 people in the room and not 4. I have never looked at it as being penalized, but in a way we are being 'penalized' for being only 2 people. The familes of 4 get more bang for their buck than we do, but I have never complained!

A 12 y/o is considered an adult at Disney(anyone 10 and over) so you are paying the same rate as 2 adults. I never agreed with that part either, since when is anyone 10y/o considered and adult, but I ruffled enough feathers for now..

 

[maxiesmom]

The problem is larger families are not the norm. So for Disney to make a large number of its rooms designed for those families would just not be smart. They would not be as sellable as the rooms that hold 4 or 5. How would it make sense for Disney to have a huge number of rooms meant to hold 6 people or more? That is just not the market.

I don't think it makes sense to play the "affordable" card either. Going to Disney is not a right. Many families can't affford to go to Disney at all, with what park passes and rooms cost. Should Disney be looking for a way to make it "affordable" for those people too?

And how about me? I am single. What kind of discount would I get for my being alone at Disney? I don't use as much water as a family of 4, I don't take up as much space on the busses. I'm much chepaer to have on property than a family, but there would be no discount for me either.

Families of 4 are still the industry standard, not just the Disney standard.

 

[dbriggsq]

I think we can all agree that "penalized" wasn't the best word to use, but we should also all agree that harping on that word misses the point "njfamilyof6" was trying to make.

Since I have 5 children, I understand where "njfamilyof6" is coming from.

Everyone understands that you pay for a room. Whether you're a party of 1, 2, 3, or 4, you pay for a room. If, however, you have more than 4 in your party, then your options at Disney become more limited unless you can afford to spend more money. Significantly more money. It's not about the rate per person. It's that Disney is a pro-family place and therefore one would expect more options than currently offered for families with more than 4 people (plus 1 infant).

Of course anyone with a large family expects to pay for it. No one is looking for a handout. However, there are fewer options for larger families at Disney without the cost becoming prohibitive.

What is surprising is that there aren't more larger, more moderately priced rooms (say somewhere between a moderate and a deluxe) that can accomodate larger families, but aren't as expensive as booking 2 rooms, the ASMU Family Suites, or a 2 bedroom villa.

People with large families are very much used to paying more. That goes with the territory. Still, IMHO Disney could do more to accomodate this key group of vacationers, and charge us appropriately for it.

You've absolutely hit the nail on the head! We're a family with 5 children too and have struggled to fit into 'standard' accommodations. We were lucky enough to be able to buy into DVC which solved the problem, but it would have been nice to have some more options before this.

The problem is that if a family of 6 or 7 stays in 2 hotel rooms then there are still only 1 or 2 wage earners to pay for those rooms whereas if 2 separate families stay in those same hotel rooms there are 1 or 2 wage earners in each room to pay. (Don't think I've explained that very well!) Yes large families should expect to pay more but should it be double? Or should it be a proportionate amount taking into account the number of wage earners and perhaps thinking about the price per 'family unit'

 

[helenk]

A 12 y/o is considered an adult at Disney(anyone 10 and over) so you are paying the same rate as 2 adults. I never agreed with that part either, since when is anyone 10y/o considered and adult, but I ruffled enough feathers for now..

The cruise is different because the occupancy is per person, you do not get a discount if the second person is a child, this is pretty much industry wide.
However staying in WDW, a 12 year old is still considered a child, as far as staying in the room for "free". Disney only charges once they are over 18. For the cost of the DDP however, a 12 year old is an adult, so the cost of the dining plan is an adult charge.
I think that Disney is very generous with not charging for children under 18, I have stayed in Beach resorts where if they are over 12 you pay an extra fee.

 

[bicker]

I think it is fair to charge double for two rooms. The reason for needing the extra room doesn't matter. It still takes a room away from the hotel's available inventory.

 

[maxiesmom]

Yes large families should expect to pay more but should it be double? Or should it be a proportionate amount taking into account the number of wage earners and perhaps thinking about the price per 'family unit'

I don't think that would work either. What defines a "family unit"? And who would get to decide that? And charging a different amount for families with a different number of wage earners would not be fair either. Maybe a family only has one wage earner because that wage earner makes a nice amount of money? Would they still be entitled to a discount? Or would you do it only based on what income that family had? So instead of penalizing people with large familes you would then penalize people that make a decent amount of money. How is that any more fair?

I've thought that maybe Disney should go to a charge per person. But I don't think that would work either. For example, 2 adults can stay at a Value resort for around $100 a night. So per adult that is only $50. That would be great for us single people! But you would then have to add in a token amount for children, as they do use services such as the busses, water, electricity, and whatnot. So instead of kids being free, you would have to pay some token amount. Lets say $20 a night per kid. So now the families of 4 are paying more. It would be great if you had more people than 1 room could hold, you could put 3 kids in one room and only pay $60 a night. But then Disney would be loosing money. And Disney IS a business, first and formost.

You can go around so many different ways on this that it makes your head spin. But the easiest thing to do is what Disney does now. Charge per room, up to a capacity limit. And not try to accomodate people based on what they earn, or how many family memebers they have.

 

[Lynne M]

OP, this isn't a knock against you at all, I'm just raising a topic for discussion...

For families of 6, Disney has:

All-Star Family Suites
Fort Wilderness Cabins
2-bedroom villas at OKW, SSR, BWV, BCV, AKV, VWL, and soon BLT
Two connecting rooms at any resort.

So, I'm always a little baffled when people say "Disney doesn't have enough options for large familes". They have plenty of options. Scads of options, in lots of different price ranges, that lots of people are taking advantage of. DVC sells memberships as fast as they can build resorts. The Family Suites are usually booked up, as are the cabins.

 

[flickwizard]

I don't think that would work either. What defines a "family unit"? And who would get to decide that? And charging a different amount for families with a different number of wage earners would not be fair either. Maybe a family only has one wage earner because that wage earner makes a nice amount of money? Would they still be entitled to a discount? Or would you do it only based on what income that family had? So instead of penalizing people with large familes you would then be penalize people that make a decent amount of money. How is that any more fair?

I've thought that maybe Disney should go to a charge per person. But I don't think that would work either. For example, 2 adults can stay at a Value resort for around $100 a night. So per adult that is only $50. That would be great for us single people! But you would then have to add in a token amount for children, as they do use services such as the busses, water, electricity, and whatnot. So instead of kids being free, you would have to pay some token amount. Lets say $20 a night per kid. So now the families of 4 are paying more. It would be great if you had more people than 1 room could hold, you could put 3 kids in one room and only pay $60 a night. But then Disney would be loosing money. And Disney IS a business, first and formost.

You can go around so many different ways on this that it makes your head spin. But the easiest thing to do is what Disney does now. Charge per room, up to a capacity limit. And not try to accomodate people based on what they earn, or how many family memebers they have.

I agree wholeheartedly that Disney cannot charge per person or per family unit. The basic point though is not the charge per room, it's the availability of rooms that are moderately priced but can also accomodate larger families.

This is a key target demographic for Disney and it is somewhat surprising that there aren't more options in terms of accomodations that are geared to it. Disney is moving in this direction to a degree as the ASMU Family Suites can attest. However, other than this, as it stands the options are very limited for larger families without it becoming very expensive.

Ultimately, we all understand that Disney is a business, albeit one that is geared toward families. However, what most of us large families are looking for is something similar to the current Value/Moderate/Deluxe configuration, but instead of the difference being amenities and class of resort, it's capacity. Disney recognizes the value of getting more people to the parks since they know that once there, they will spend more (the current buy 4 nights/get 3 free deal is a perfect example of this). So larger families fit directly into this strategy. Right now you have ASMU Family Suites, 2 rooms, or a 2 bedroom villa. Just a few are moderately priced, the rest are expensive. It makes financial sense for Disney to accomodate the "in-between" group as well.

 

[haleofafamily]

In reference to Disney charging "an adult price for a 10 yr old" this bothered me until I realized that a 10 yr old (actually even younger) can expereince all the attractions that an adult can. Now the age range for an adult ticket makes sense to me. Our local theme park charges per height (in inches) which makes even more sense. You pay for what you can see/ride at the park.
For us the price of the meal plan for a 10 yr old doesn't seem worth it. Our 10 yr. old can't eat anywhere near what an adult can.

 

[tinknsnow]

Life in the USA is definitely more set-up for a family with two kids (hotel rooms, restaurant seating, most airplane seats etc). However, I chose to have three kids and by doing so, I chose to always have to pull up a chair at the end of the restaurant booth.

I do miss staying at the Wilderness Lodge. One day, we will go back at book a junior suite. In the meantime, we're staying at resorts that sleep 5.

 

[Lollipop's Mom]

The only problem I have with the 10& over rule is food. My daughter does not eat all that much. She is 12 now, but even at 10 and 11 she did not eat more than she did at 7 or 8. I am actually avoiding buffets on the next trip because I think its ridiculous to pay $30 for her to eat hardly anything. I really think Disney needs a 10-14 Jr meal price.

 

[Clotho]

Everyone understands that you pay for a room. Whether you're a party of 1, 2, 3, or 4, you pay for a room. If, however, you have more than 4 in your party, then your options at Disney become more limited unless you can afford to spend more money.

This is because that size family is not as common, hence the limited options catering to them. A majority of families fit just fine into the regular rooms. Where there are families who don't fit that "mold", they have a few options available--the number available being a reflection of their research as to the demand and how often they can sell those rooms.

The fact is that those rooms are created as a"standard" accommodation. A family of the size of the OP's is not the standard family size! And if you choose to have that many kids, it should come as no surprise that the standard...well...everything doesn't cater to your chosen lifestyle.

I am also not trying to be flip or rude. Just the facts, ma'am.

 

[maxiesmom]

I agree wholeheartedly that Disney cannot charge per person or per family unit. The basic point though is not the charge per room, it's the availability of rooms that are moderately priced but can also accomodate larger families.

This is a key target demographic for Disney and it is somewhat surprising that there aren't more options in terms of accomodations that are geared to it. Disney is moving in this direction to a degree as the ASMU Family Suites can attest. However, other than this, as it stands the options are very limited for larger families without it becoming very expensive.

Ultimately, we all understand that Disney is a business, albeit one that is geared toward families. However, what most of us large families are looking for is something similar to the current Value/Moderate/Deluxe configuration, but instead of the difference being amenities and class of resort, it's capacity. Disney recognizes the value of getting more people to the parks since they know that once there, they will spend more (the current buy 4 nights/get 3 free deal is a perfect example of this). So larger families fit directly into this strategy. Right now you have ASMU Family Suites, 2 rooms, or a 2 bedroom villa. Just a few are moderately priced, the rest are expensive. It makes financial sense for Disney to accomodate the "in-between" group as well.

I just wanted to point out you missed the least expensive option of all. Camping at the Fort. I would love to do that, but I can't convince anyone else it would be fun.

You also missed renting points from a DVC member, which can be a great deal. That we have done.

Look at it this way: With the current arrangement of 4 people in a room, you can have either 1 family of 4 in each room, or 1 family of 8. But if you build rooms that just accomodate 7 or 8, then they are not as rentable. Families of 4 are not likely to use them. Units of 4 just make more sense. They offer more flexibility in renting them out. You can divide a larger family up into seperate rooms, but you can't force 2 families to share 1 larger space. Well, I guess you could, but it would be wierd.

 

[Luna_Lovegood]

I understand totally that Disney can't give you extra room for free, but my kids are small, and if given the option we would put all three in one bed and be fine. The reasoning is always "fire codes", but as a PP mentioned, why can AB rooms sleep five while the larger AKL and WL rooms can only have 4?
On the plus side, and also already mentioned, is the fact that I have a great bargaining chip when pushing for a deluxe!

 

[Clotho]

Fire codes don't just apply to the size of individual rooms. It also applies to the overall capacity and layout of the building in question, as it pertains to escape in case of a fire. So while different resorts may have similar room sizes and configurations, the buildings in which the rooms are housed are taken into account as well.

 

[Brian Noble]

really is more difficult with larger families- the options aren't there as they are for a family of 4 or less. If you have 4, then you can go ANYWHERE in the WDW resorts.

You can go anywhere with more than four, too---you just need more than one room.

Again, if you need space equivalent to two hotel rooms (and that's what you need if you have six people over the age of 3), it's reasonable to assume you'll have to pay for that space.

 

[Alesia]

I understand totally that Disney can't give you extra room for free, but my kids are small, and if given the option we would put all three in one bed and be fine. The reasoning is always "fire codes", but as a PP mentioned, why can AB rooms sleep five while the larger AKL and WL rooms can only have 4?
On the plus side, and also already mentioned, is the fact that I have a great bargaining chip when pushing for a deluxe!

Fire codes take many things into account. The size of the room is not nearly as important as the width of the hallways and the number of stairwells. Fire codes are in place to make sure that everyone can be safely evacuated.

 

[bicker]

Perhaps the impression that Disney should do something that subsidizes larger families comes from the fact that towns and cities do set things up to subsidize larger families with regard to education: Clearly, such families pay the same rate for property taxes and income taxes, but that includes elementary and high school education for all children regardless. The difference, though, is that having children educated is a society priority -- something that benfits all of society not just their family.

 

[greenpea89]

If I understand the OP correctly her issue was with regard to a specific package that gave the impression that as long as two adults were paying then all of the children in that family would be free - regardless of the number of children. Which I understand to a certain extent but I'm sure the OP understands, after some thought, why that isn't the intent of the offer. While you only have four children what about the families with six or more? I'm sure you understand why Disney wouldn't be able to offer all of those children the "travel free" offer.

We are also a family of six and for us, while I have no problem paying the additional room and other fees that come with our larger than average family, I do wish that Disney would block connecting rooms for all parties that need/want them. We typically stay in a suite at one of the deluxe resorts because I know it says "guaranteed" on the reservation now but, unfortunately, this isn't always the case and it really puts a damper on our holiday when my husband and I need to split up because connecting rooms aren't always available. I know all of the reasons that this isn't possible - it's just my "wish". Also, while we haven't stayed there yet, I think it would be nice if the ASMu family suites offered the option of a connecting room (I think that would be like a two bedroom suite that could accommodate up to ten). While at some point, of course, Disney can't be everything to all people it would be nice if a large nuclear or extended family had the option to stay together in a value priced accommodation on property or even to allow a family of 4-8 the option to have a bit more space at a reasonable rate - just a thought.