Behavior Challenge Thread

Grace,

Nice list. Often times the schools definitely use our non-understanding of things against us. They don't like informed parents. And we dont' always become fully informed until we go through the process.

At the same school our children our at and we love our friend is having a different experience. There are most likely sprectrum issues with her DD and she is going for testing but she has no "official" diagnosis yet. Her mother gave her a manipulative to use for anxiety and the teacher took it away saying it was too distracting. This child is in the other 1st grade class. The same thing with K also, different teacher.

So she has a meeting with the special ed teacher (the same one that was in DD's). Hopefully it will work out for her. I honestly believe if DS had had the other teachers we still would have gotten services. For some reason it's DP. She has given our friend some pointers but we'll see what happens.
 
I honestly believe if DS had had the other teachers we still would have gotten services. For some reason it's DP. She has given our friend some pointers but we'll see what happens.

Let me know what the pointers are! I seem to have the same problem at our school. Is it me? I feel like I communicate nicely and respectfully but for some reason I end up adversarial :confused3. Truly, I am more than willing to worship the right teacher...:worship: :rotfl2:

Wish I could help out on the "other kid" stuff, but dd is an only child.
 
Hey Grace,
First DP has an uncanny ability to keep her emotions in check when dealing with those like these teachers. She will cry with those she feels safe with but is able to keep from getting angry etc with the others.

Second it's the school. At our old school we had no support at any level of administration. We had teacher support but they could only go so far because their jobs were on the line. No most of them couldn't be fired but the administration would do all kinds of things to make life miserable for those that didn't "do what they were supposed to" . BTW of the 40 children that started K when DD at that school we have estimated less than 20 have stayed. Most have either moved to the suburbs, gone to charter school or private schools.

That being said at our current school DP has gained the respect and ear of the administration and other individuals at the school. So that helps.

Unfortunately it sounds like you are in scenario A. The principal is not doing what is in the best interest of the child and on up the food chain. Having your outside counsel is definitely helpful.

Question, what has been the experience of other families with special needs in you school and district? If many have had the same experience as you then you are all victims of a flawed system, much like our district (many families have had the same experience as us). If they have had success,then find out who they talked too, who was their champion,who is the voice of reason?
 
I can't tell if there are many others with my problem here in this district. I do know of one parent I correspond with. She has a long history with this school district. Her DS, now in HS, is ASD and only this year got an IEP because he is failing half his classes (I think he is quite bright but is having emotional difficulties). I do the math: CDC says 1 in 9 kids on spectrum? So let's say here it's only a quarter of that (why? just to be generous with CDC statistics). That still means that there will be at least 2-3 children per grade in our school. The principal states she's "very familiar with Asperger's" and yes, she's the same one who told me it cannot be dx at dd's age. There is an "autism team" which I've heard good things about except that the Autism Leader stated dd does not have asd because she "demonstrated shared enjoyment and joint attention in activities". The thing is, dd, when one on one with an adult who she knows does very, very well. Their report stated dd "giggled and didn't appear to know the appropriate responses", "ignored some questions, particularly when they involved discussion about emotion". Their example of her joint celebration was a "high five". The report stated she "was unaware of the social skills needed for certain situations", "she had an auditory disregard for questions", "when asked higher level wh questions she provided the result rather than the cause", "she exhibited breakdown in language", "she had difficulty generating cohesive responses", "she had responses that sounded scripted", "she repeatedly attempted to change the topic by disregarding the question", "she exhibited a difficulty in perspective taking", "she used language that appears unusual for a child her age".

Now, in my opinion the most uninformed person could pretty much look at the list above and see autistic traits, however, the AUTISM LEADER summarized her report as follows:
"XXX did not demonstrate a profile of behaviors consistent with a diagnosis of Autism Spectrum Disorder. She displayed good social skills, use of language was not impaired, and did not exhibit atypical sensitivities. She did display sensory seeking behavior, difficulty maintaining attention, minimal hyperactivity, though not to a degree that would interfere with educational progress."

That's it. Sounds like a sweeping under the rug to me, but maybe their educational definition of ASD is Kanner's-like with impaired verbal communication, etc. My dd is hyperverbal (unless she is anxious) so she would not fit that classification at all. However, it was mentioned that the Asperger's should not have delayed verbal skills and my dd's verbal skills were delayed. So, we here know that there is no "cookie cutter" for ASD that you can a have a person with so many of the qualities and then say they gave a high five so they don't qualify.

Anyway, to answer your question, the advocate I am working with is from a large town 50 miles away and he states that my school district is notoriously bad. However, another advocate said she was very surprised, that our district is usually "good". So who knows?

As crazy at seems I think I know why they don't like me. I've cited IDEA more than a few times. They HATE that. They really, really HATE it. They even mentioned NCLB and IDEA have done a lot to damage the Schools. I live downtown (in an old house built in 1920) of a town of 60,000 people (in our entire zip code not the town). Picture this: The downtown area is half lower income and half moderately middle class fixer uppers. This school has 6% limited english speaking kids, and 40% of the school is eligible for free lunch and another 15% have reduced lunch. Most of the middle class families in the area opt for private schools. In a town on 60,000, we have 5 major private schools here. That's a large percentage of the student population at private school, not to mention homeschooling. Anyway, the principal drives a brand new fully loaded Mercedes. Now, I don't begrudge her having a nice car but you drive up to a place with a minimum of 55% of the kids in YOUR school are so far below the poverty line that they are eligible for state subsidy in a brand new Mercedes? Am I creating a picture for you of my take on the situation or am I coming across judgmental?

:confused3:confused3

I always smile and am gracious and helpful, always donate to the myriad of fundraisers, etc. But COME ON. I'm feeling like I'm just the overreative mom they can just push around with the way they're dealing with dd at this point. That's why I have no problem keeping her home from school (except that I don't want to reinforce the anxiety) but I have no respect for their "policies" anymore.

Ok, this was a long vent. Hopefully you can see through the anger to the real issues I've got going against me here.

:goodvibes
 

Hey Grace, if you weren't in Texas I would've guessed you were in our district:goodvibes

Our district has 32,000 students in grades K-12. We have a 50% graduation rate. 80% receive free or reduced price lunch. Yup, it's your district. I used to get the "you don't understand these kids and where they come from" Really because my kids live in the district in a mixed-race, mixed income area and DD learned how to spell P-O-L-I-C-E from the squad car that was across the street. Hey mama look at these really tiny ziploc bags. And no they weren't button bags (like the ones you sometimes get with blouses or shirts).:confused3

The person speaking lived in the wealthiest suburb in our area. The principal (who lived in the city (the nicest neighborhood) and drove a hummer. The VP who is the one that lived in the weathy suburb drove a Lexus SUV.

I know our district has a self-defeating attitude. These kids "can't" is the attitude. And then they get a parent like you who gives a darn and has expectations and you are messing with their universe.

I give you credit to for keeping up the fight.
 
Please help. DD5 has oppositional defience disorder, OCD, ADHD, sensory intergrated disorder. I don't know how to deal with her behavior anymore. She doesn't listen to us,her behavior is getting out of control, I don't even take her anywhere anymore. She is very aggressive with everyone. She has started lying recently. I am lost and just don't know what to do anymore. Any suggestions would be appreciated
 
Please help. DD5 has oppositional defience disorder, OCD, ADHD, sensory intergrated disorder. I don't know how to deal with her behavior anymore. She doesn't listen to us,her behavior is getting out of control, I don't even take her anywhere anymore. She is very aggressive with everyone. She has started lying recently. I am lost and just don't know what to do anymore. Any suggestions would be appreciated

I will try to help with what I know. What methods have you tried to curb the defiant behavior? Discipline? Redirecting? Negotiating? Removal of Toys? What about her behavior is "out of control"? Have you read the book, "The Out of Sync Child" or "The Explosive Child"? Most every library will have these 2 books. They are very good at describing these issues. Does your daughter receive OT? Is she sensory seeking? and if so, have you tried heavy work, heavy pressure or even brushing (wilbarger protocol) to see if that helps? If she has SID/SDP, a lot of her issues could be due to the fact that she doesn't feel "right" most of the time, due to her sensory system being of of balance. If you can modulate her senses by giving sensory input that can sometimes help the behavior.

Also, have you tried looking at food sensitivities? Do her outburts come after eating certain foods?

Lying for a 5 year old is not atypical. It can be a regular developmental stage. Unless it is chronic or seems unusual there are ways to deal with lying that help the process to work through that stage.

There's one important message in your daughter's behavior: something's not right in her system, either neurologically, chemically, or psychologically. You need to be the detective to find the source so that you can help her.

Welcome to this board and feel free to express your daughter's issues and your feelings here, I've found it to be a very safe place to come when you're losing your mind!

:goodvibes
 
We just got the sensory diagnosis a month ago, so we are still lost on that one. As far as how I handle her behavior, I do try to redirect and take things away or give rewards. But some days like this weekend, I don't have the energy or patience for it. I know that may sound horrible but I am tired and worn out. She wakes up numerous times during the night and I get so little sleep, since she sleeps with me, even thought I have tried to move her out.

I was given a suggestion to give her tokens when she has done something good or listens and she can cash the tokens in twice a week and there are little prizes for several level and at least one prize that she can not reach in one time frame to help her learn to be patient and work towards something, So i just went to walmart on my lunch hour and bought poke chips and Dh and I will work on a list tonight on what she will get tokens for and how many, ect. I am sorry for venting this morning, I just sometimes feel so lost and alone and feel like there is no where to turn to. also she does get OT & speech theraphy which they are trying to stop and I am trying to sto them because I understand that this can also help with her food issues, she hardly eats and eats the same things all the time. sorry for being so long.

Also does anyone know if the behaviors get better with age, I hope so.
 
No problem, we all have bad days. I come on here and vent too!

So she gets OT and ST through the school? I ask because the schools are not as adept at the OT as private outside providers in my opinion. Get the book "The Out of Sync Child" and read it. There are ways to improve the sensory issues. Some things I can immediately think of are:

put her between two big couch cushions on the floor (like a cushion sandwich) and lightly (or heavily-whichever she likes most) apply pressure. Make it fun.

Give her sugar free chewing gum. Chewing helps.

Tight hugs if she'll handle them.

Lots of "heavy work" when irritable such as jumping, running, etc.

Ask your OT about the Willbarger Protocol. That and joint compressions can help if it is a sensory modulation issue.

Now, as far as the eating, is she not eating because of taste, texture, or temperature sensitivities? There is a school of thought that believes kids with food intolerances will actually crave foods that are the triggers. Such as if there is a yeast problem they will crave sweets and starches. Try to integrate new foods slowly and eliminate the foods she craves to see if that makes a difference.

As far as her sleeping in your bed, listen I KNOW what you're dealing with there! My dd had a thing where she had to be touching a certain place on my arm (she had a skin fetish or something :rotfl2:) in order to sleep. She still has this to some degree (especially if she is very upset she'll rub that part of my arm). I would never admit this anywhere else! I am just trying to show you I get it. Here are things that helped me: First of all her sleep patterns should get better with age, but not always. Have you tried laying with her in her bed and then leaving when she fell asleep? Even if she comes to your room later, she still started out in her room and that is a baby step! Eventually as the sleep patterms even out the hope is that she would stay in her bed longer and longer. Have you tried melatonin? It is a safe sleep aid.

I know it's hard to have the energy or patience to do the disciplinary techniqus but it really will help to know what you're up against with your daughter. You have to try these different techniques one by one to see what works and what doesn't. The book I mentioned before "The Explosive Child" discusses discipline and it has been the only thing that worked for me.

Yes, it does get better! Maybe it's not about age because some things get easier in that regard and some things get harder but want to know what gets easier? You get better at dealing with it. You really will. Just don't give up.

:goodvibes
 
Night before last she did sleep in her room all night I put her in her bed when she fell asleep on my lap, she has to rub my shirt to fall asleep, I have a coupl eshe wants me to wear thay have tectured printing on them. I have sleep in her room but had to stop do to it being a twin bunk bed and me having a herniated disc in my neck :upsidedow, I may put my air matress on the floor of her room and get her to sleep with me on it and then move her to her bed and then eventually move to my room. I want to say thanks, I have no one to talk to that understands what I am dealing with.
 
See, that's a great start! Wow, the fact that she's 5 and she already has sporatic nights where she doesn't wake is very good. That means there's hope her night wakings might subside. I can't imagine how hard it would be to do all this with a herniated disc!!!! No way. I carry, tug at, lift, etc my dd on a daily basis. If you took away my ability to do all those things the situation would be MUCH harder. Does your older DD help?

One thing that has been good for my dd is ROUTINE. Everything in our life is ROUTINE! Every night is exactly the same. Every morning is exactly the same. It helps them cope when they know what's going on. The really bad days for us are when our routine is disrupted. If your dd is OCD, that rigid routine might really help her feel some "control".

I'm glad to be able to help or at least just let you know you're not alone. This board is GREAT for that.
:goodvibes
 
Older DD does try to help but DD5 is mean to her and yells at her and hits her. Yes my neck has been an issue I got my thrid Epidural shot 2 weeks ago and I am doing better, trying to put off surgery because I can't lift her for 6 weeks, and I think we know that that will not happen right now.
 
Does the 5 yo give a reason for the behavior? Is she just irritable? Sounds like that behavior would be a good place to start with the poker chip modification technique. I find it's best to focus on certain behaviors first (such as safety or hitting) then work up to the others on the list. If you try to change everything at once it's too overwhelming for you AND them. So sit down and talk to her about the poker chips and devise a system for getting them based on her behavior in certain areas so she can focus on controlling those. Such as getting poker chips for being nice to sister (you can always rewards chips for other nice behaviors too) and take away chips for acting mean. Dealing with the tantrums over the chips is part of it and enduring a rage is sometimes necessary. Unfortunately it's also sometimes necessary to show dd5 that older dd gets a special prize (or model the chips thing with her also) for being good. You want to try to get through to her that good behaviors = rewards and negative behaviors = loss of rewards. If you cave on any follow through on it the results will suffer so try to get everyone very "on board" from the start.

Good luck! And let us know how it goes.
 
Kymmyk13,

Most children who get this level of “alphabet soup” diagnosis at this young of an age is because their clinicians lack the competency and knowledge to identify and diagnose the underlying source which is often Aspergers or some similar grouping of Autism genetics. Your description is classic for girls (although much of what you describe does not typically manifest until a few years later with improperly diagnosed children.

Typical behavior methods are often contraindicated for these children, since the basis for them is socially driven. I would suggest getting a copy of Tony Attwood’s book the complete guide to Aspergers, available on Amazon for about $17 and reading it ASAP.

There could be other underlying caused but in any case you are chasing manifestations instead of the source.

bookwormde
 
Kymmyk13,

Most children who get this level of “alphabet soup” diagnosis at this young of an age is because their clinicians lack the competency and knowledge to identify and diagnose the underlying source which is often Aspergers or some similar grouping of Autism genetics. Your description is classic for girls (although much of what you describe does not typically manifest until a few years later with improperly diagnosed children.

Typical behavior methods are often contraindicated for these children, since the basis for them is socially driven. I would suggest getting a copy of Tony Attwood’s book the complete guide to Aspergers, available on Amazon for about $17 and reading it ASAP.

There could be other underlying caused but in any case you are chasing manifestations instead of the source.

bookwormde

I thought aspergers too, but she was tested and they said no but added the sensory diagnosis
 
Our 11 yr old has a friend like this. She would only wear 1 dress to school at one point. Her mama had to wash it everyday. Even in the dead of winter. She also had ADHD, and some emotional issues, which made her really manipulative. As a matter of fact, the child psychiatrist warned her mama about watching for the manipulative behavior.

I'd never heard of sensory issues, til dd and this girl became friends. Our older dd has ADD, and can be high strung, so they're either BFF's or fighting to the death!!

The good news is, this child has outgrown (or learned to cope with) a lot of sensory issues. This has made school much easier. In my heart, I do think this girl really wants to fit in, and be a people pleaser. Although she can be a handful, I'm very fond of her. She and dd still get together, but since they started middle school, all the kids have been split up, and they're not in any of the same classes. Anyway, I'm sorry to not have words of wisdom for you.

I'll tell you one thing: our youngest has moderate autism. This girl is her favorite of all the kids who come to play at our house. A lot of our older dd's friends don't really like little kids that much. This girl really takes her time with our younger dd, and is very sweet to her. Despite her challenges, there's something really sweet and unique about her.:goodvibes
 
Kymmy3,

With the exception of a few highly competent clinicians only major medical centers with dedicated Austism/Aspergers programs have the experience and current training to diagnose Aspergers or at least identify the manifestation as a sourcing from Autism genetics. Just the fact that your daughter’s clinicians keep adding on new alphabet sets is an almost 100% indicator that they lack the level of competency that your daughter needs.

Quite honestly the only other source where I have seen this quantity of co morbidities is in PTSD severe abuse cases and I assume you would have mentioned that if it was a possibility.

Please read the Attwood book and then start searching for a center that can properly evaluate your child. Attwood is the leading clinician in the world for this subject. Have they done an auditory processing evaluation, IQ set and WPS/SRS evaluation, if they missed any of these (which each have critical “clues” to the existence of Autism genetics) then that is another strong indicator that your daughter clinicians lack even the most basic competency in this area. More than 70% of children who are diagnosed with Aspergers were originally diagnosed with 1 or more of the manifestations and Aspergers was “dismissed”.

In girls the more intelligent they are often the more difficult they are at earlier ages. The IQ tests typically show subsets that are well above average and others that are significantly below, but yield a combined score significantly above average.

Once you read the book you will be able to “put the pieces togther”

bookwormde
 
Please read the Attwood book and then start searching for a center that can properly evaluate your child. Attwood is the leading clinician in the world for this subject. Have they done an auditory processing evaluation, IQ set and WPS/SRS evaluation, if they missed any of these (which each have critical “clues” to the existence of Autism genetics) then that is another strong indicator that your daughter clinicians lack even the most basic competency in this area. More than 70% of children who are diagnosed with Aspergers were originally diagnosed with 1 or more of the manifestations and Aspergers was “dismissed”.

bookwormde[/QUOTE]

A PHD from an autism center in Birmingham, Alabama came to her school to test her and they are the ones that mentioned the Sensory issues(the director of special needs at her school wanted to test her and I politley declined, she said she was qualified because she took a week long seminar and I am sorry but not good enougfh for me). The PHD said that she could understand why we thought she has autism.
We are currnetly down to seeing just a psyciatrist for her ADHD medication.She gets OT & ST at school, Does she need to be seeing someone else?
 
Ok, everyone, this is a call for help from all of you!

I'll try to make the long story short. Everyone knows dd has been extra anxious since Christmas break. She's now on anti-anxiety meds. Yesterday, I don't know if it was due to the meds working or divine intervention, dd actually had an extremely productive hour of therapy. During this hour, she expressed so much of the problems she is experiencing in school. She stated the gym (where they have assembly, rhythms, and PE) is too loud and that people bump into her. She said she plugs her ears but the noise is still too loud. She said she cries but is told to go sit down. She stated she doesn't like her teacher because she talks too much and doesn't listen when she asks for help. she talked about the pony pass and how they won't let her use it. She talked (and wiggled, hung upside down :upsidedow, put her feet on the wall, cried) for the entire hour. This is great progress in my opinion because up til now she seemed unwilling or unable to verbalize her feelings. It is also good because I now have documentation of the issues from a licensed psychotherapist. :teacher:
Did I tell you the OT is documenting her issues as well? Leading up to the new social skills group she is informally testing her current level of functioning.
I called TEA to get a ruling on whether I could get an IEE (as per the attorney) this late after the ARD. Spoke to TEA spokesperson for an hour and she laid it out for me. She stated that I should first meet with District Head of Special Education and see if she's willing to "step in" on the school level. Well, guess what? I have a meeting with District Sp Ed Director Thursday. :cheer2:
Here's where I need help. I know that key to a successful meeting is not to get emotional and have a plan. I need to outline strengths and weaknesses and have some solutions to the problems (instead of just complaining). I've looked and looked and just cannot find a list of mods for Asperger's. I guess I should just go with what would be best for dd? I don't know what is reasonable and what isn't.
Best case scenario I would like to inquire about any other schools in the district that may have an Autism program (our school definitely doesn't). If they had more intensive instruction at least for right now while the problems are bad perhaps they could see what should be done? But I can't go in and request a one-on-one aide? What about request to have dd excused from assembly? Is that reasonable? It's not academic anyway. How will I deal with PE? Ask to allow her to wear earplugs?
What about things that would ease the alienation in the classroom?

You see I just don't know what reasonable things I should be prepared to ask for. Any input here would be greatly appreciated!

I don't want to get my hopes up too much but I am hopeful. If all fails here it's time for the IEE. I don't want to threaten but I need to be prepared to state that's what my next step will be.
:goodvibes

The chuckle of the day is this: today dd came home with a writing assignment in her backpack. It's a picture of a plant with the caption "what am I?" and she had to write 5 sentences (she usually doesn't complete these-is this another case of the meds working?). Here is what she wrote exactly:

I am a buod ful womin.
I have frinse they are buod ful too.
I have lose of frinse.
My frinse are nise to me.
I love my frense.

How CUTE is that?:goodvibes

BTW, there's a free app on iTunes called Model Me Kids that has social stories for going grocery shopping, etc. DD has watched it several times so I do recommend it.
 
Hey all.

First KYMMYK - Welcome and vent away. We are here to laugh, cry, yell and share information. I'm with Bookwormde. And I'll add, do you feel in your gut it's Asperger's. The whole mom's intuition thing? If so, you're probably on to something.

Quick recap on our situation. DS is 6. From the time he was 3 I used to joke "There's somthing wrong with that boy" But we got he's only 3, he's immature as all boys are, you're too soft on him....
The child potty trained in 2 weeks so that on his 3rd Bday he could go into the child watch at the local grocery store. When he was 3 he taught himself to read. And he didn't interact with other children or seem to be making friends. It was his pre-K teacher that led us to get him tested at age 4 (Thank God, someone else finally saw it)
.
Point is, we knew it was something. Now I realize you have a diagnosis, or several. But it doesn't sound like you're convinced it's the right diagnosis. And the thing with ASD is it manifests itself in so many different ways. As far as behaviors, for us it comes and goes. He is fine outside of the house. But he can be a real bear at home. We think it's because home is safe, as are we so he's trying to figure it all out.

Grace, do you have anyone that can go to the meeting with you? friend, relative for moral support and/or to take notes. One of our biggest things we have learned is that you go to a meeting with the school or the district and they have anywhere from 3 to 5 people and then there's you. We feel fortunate to have each other. DP has gone to meetings with other friends and has taken notes, offered moral support and observed. It just might be good to have a second pair of eyes with you. And you can bring whomever you want with you to a meeting, so don't let the school tell you can't. That's BS if they tell you otherwise.

Also Grace, LOVED the sentences. Man our kids are cool.:cool1:
 












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