Bears!

1GoldenSun

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Does anyone have any knowledge about bears that they can share?

I'm taking a summer-long road trip around the country with my two teens. My husband will be flying out to be with us when he can, but often it will be just the kids and me. We'll be going to many national parks, a lot of which are populated by bears. We'll be camping in some of them.

I am irrationally afraid of bears. You can cite all the statistics you want; my feelings are my feelings. The best thing I can do to alleviate my worries is to prepare and educate myself as much as I can. However, I'm having a hard time finding the answers to all of my questions, and some of the info I have found is somewhat conflicting.

I read that you shouldn't sleep in the clothes you cooked in. However, if we're cooking hot dogs or hamburgers (or anything) outside over an open fire, or even a camp stove, the cooking smell is going to get in our hair and on our bodies. Are we supposed to shower and change into clean clothes before bed? If so, what about that fresh shampoo scent, since the bear literature says that bears are attracted to flowery smells. I read that bears are attracted to all kinds of personal hygiene products, and even insect repellent. Should we avoid using insect repellent? Should I look for scent-free deodorant, soap, shampoo, etc.? I even read that you should wash your clothes in scent-free detergent. I just don't see how we can become completely scent-free. And even if we can, can't the bear still smell US? Maybe we don't smell as tasty as insect repellent, but still; the bear's gotta know there are humans in that tent even if we showered the cooking smell off ourselves with unscented products and dressed in fragrance-free clothes.

I also read that we should put all food items or anything with a scent (toothpaste, etc)-- and even canned items and bottled water-- in bear boxes. That I can do. But some campsites explicitly state that they don't have bear boxes or that the shared boxes may fill up and that we should lock all such items in our cars. But then I also read that we should never leave food in our car because the bears will sometimes break a window to get at it. This article said that if staying in a hotel you should always bring all food and other scented items inside your room. Do we really have to do that? My comforting thought has been that if we set up our camp and it gets dark and I try to go to sleep in our tent and I just CAN'T relax, I can always go sleep in the car as a last resort. But if we're storing food in our car because there's no bear box, then that's the last place I want to be, if the bears might break in. THAT would pretty much freak me out.

I'm also nervous about hiking but I don't plan on going on any trails where there are't a lot of people. We'll have bear spray where it's legal. I'm not QUITE as worried about when my husband is with us because he's very tall and pretty big; I hope a bear would be more likely to think twice. He's not as big as a grizzly, of course, but the videos tell you to try to look as big and ferocious as possible and he's by far the biggest and most ferocious of the four of us.

I really think that in the end I'm going to be fine. I did an open-water swim a few weeks ago to raise money for cancer, and I HATE the ocean. It's not just a fear of sharks (although I don't love them); I get creeped out by the idea of all the living things that are out there unseen by me. But once I got out in the water and started swimming I didn't even think about it. I think that'll be the way it'll go once I'm at Yellowstone or wherever. But still, the more knowledge I have going in the more reassured I'll be.

Does anyone have "bear knowledge" they can share?
 
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One more question that I can't find the answer to that maybe a DISer will know; it's not related to bears but maybe it's ok to hijack my own thread:

Are isobutane and butane interchangeable, meaning, can I use isobutane in a butane camp stove? I can't find this answer anywhere, although I've gotten quite the chemistry lesson. I've learned that isobutane is an isomer of butane. They have the same chemical formula but the atoms are arranged differently. That is all very good to know but can I burn isobutane in my butane stove?
 
There are plenty of things on a search for bears in case of you encountering one.
 

You can purchase coolers with a lock on them. You can also purchase a cable lock to wrap around a cooler that doesn't have a lock. You can also store food in a bear hang aka sack hanging in a tree. Everything unscented is best. Unscented trash bags to personal HBA products. Build camp as a triangle - sleep - food storage - cooking all seperated from each other. You can use handmade tripods for a washing station and a drinking water too. A well lit and good amount of noise at the campsite. I know you said it won't help, yet in all my years of camping and hiking we never ran into bears. Rattlesnakes, Raccoons, Mosquitoes, Ticks, & Poison Ivy are in abundance compared to Bears. Always stick to the trails. Be on the lookout for tracks and poop.
 
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One more question that I can't find the answer to that maybe a DISer will know; it's not related to bears but maybe it's ok to hijack my own thread:

Are isobutane and butane interchangeable, meaning, can I use isobutane in a butane camp stove? I can't find this answer anywhere, although I've gotten quite the chemistry lesson. I've learned that isobutane is an isomer of butane. They have the same chemical formula but the atoms are arranged differently. That is all very good to know but can I burn isobutane in my butane stove?

So you're referring to Lindahl valve backpacking stoves and their cartridges? There is a special type of stove that's similar, but doesn't use threading and has to be clamped on. This is a typical Lindahl valve stove:

msr-blog-pocketrocket-2deluxe-vs-pocketrocket-2-title.jpg


Or are you referring to a typical Korean cartridge stove? Those almost universally use butane cartridges.

71n2Ub6UnoL.__AC_SX300_SY300_QL70_ML2_.jpg


Well yeah. The stoves themselves should have no problem with almost any hydrocarbon gas. Butane and isobutane are pretty similar, although isobutane has a lower boiling point. Backpacking cartridges usually have about 80% butane or isobutane and 20% propane. They're usually not strong enough for propane. However, the propane reduces the temperature at which it can be used. As it gets closer to the boiling temperature of propane, it will selectively discharge more propane than butane. At warmer temperatures it should discharge gas proportional to the amount in.
 
Your fears are real to you but I'll agree with neverlandsky, in all my years of camping or hiking, we've only encountered a bear once. Never on a hiking trail. We were camping in Rio Grande Gorge in NM way back in the 70s before it was the thing to do and still pretty untamed. It was my parents, two brothers and myself in a large tent and one brother in a pup tent next to us. He woke up in the middle of the night because he heard something. Realized it was a bear so he made a lot of noise and scared it away. He then took lots of big rocks and put them all around the bottom of the big tent and moved his sleeping bag in there for the night but the next night was back in his pup tent. We actually left our cook stove outside and most of our food in the car but RGG isn't really full of lots of bears.

Be smart, don't leave food on the ground or near your tent where you are sleeping and stay on the trails, you should be fine. And have fun.
 
/
You could purchase some bear spray for some peace of mind.

(Oops! I just realized you did mention bear spray. Just make sure the slowest member of your party gets to carry the canister. :-) )
 
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  • 6% of Americans who responded to a yougov survey think they could take a bear in a hand-to-hand fight.
  • Gail Simone is the only straight female bear on Twitter
  • Yogi might be smarter than the average bear, but 49% of bears are, by definition, smarter than the average bear.
 
Here's the page on bear safety from the National Park Service. I assume it's authoritative without Twitter-level hysteria. Just click on the "Loading" thingee and it will open.

https://www.nps.gov/subjects/bears/...ng calmly,is usually curious, not threatening.

It's important to know what species of bear you may encounter, because the two most common species (black bear and grizzly bear) look at humans completely differently.

Grizzlies see humans as threats. Most bad grizzly encounters result from the bear being surprised -- for example, rounding a corner on a trail and a grizzly is sitting in the middle of the trail 10 feet away. In that situation, a grizzly will often attack just reflexively. Fortunately, most national parks don't have grizzlies, but Yellowstone and Glacier both do if you're going to either.

Black bears see humans as sources of food. Not prey per se, but they know we carry goodies -- especially in heavily visited national parks. So black bears will follow humans sometimes, and that's at least as dangerous as a surprised grizzly.

The other caution I would offer is to stay far away from any bear with cubs. The momma bear's first inclination is to chase her cubs away to safety, but if you put yourself in a bad position she won't hesitate to attack you.

The only thing I can tell you from minimal personal backpacking experience is that bears WILL get to food or garbage unless they are either a) hung way out of reach (and they will spend a totally unreasonable amount of time in your campground trying to climb the tree!), or b) very secure in a bear box.

They will break into the passenger compartment of a car with one smash of a window -- and then you've got a bear that can't figure out how to get OUT of your car. Trunks take longer, and even if unsuccessful they can do a lot of damage. There are thousands of stories and pictures of bears in cars.
 
My number 1 question would be have you gone to the websites of the places you'll be camping in?

Each place may have different suggestions based on the bear population, the location and any uniqueness to them. I'd start there.

Then feel free to contact any of those parks for additional questions. They would have the best knowledge. Plus they may have more tailored knowledge for someone nervous or just someone unfamiliar with their parks.

For equipment you can ask the parks too what is and isn't allowed, if burn bans exist or other considerations. After that I would visit your local outdoor store like Bass Pro, Cabela's, Dick's, etc for some hands on advice.

Even though you can find a lot of stuff on the web I would stick to more concrete advice like the ones given from the places you'll be visiting to and places that specialize in outdoors.
 
OK - where to start?

I'll just say the thing about cars is that there are different rules depending on where you are. There are a few places where bears have learned how to break into cars. Yosemite. Sequoia-Kings Canyon. Lake Tahoe. In those areas you won't find a campground without bear boxes.

I've stayed in campgrounds (Mt Rainier for example) where our instructions were to store all food in our vehicle - even in plain sight. They had bears, but didn't consider them an issue because they rarely entered campgrounds and didn't break into cars. They said they were far more concerned with birds or squirrels finding food stored on picnic tables. One place I camped where the next site over had a cooler out unattended. There were several birds trying to get in although they were unsuccessful. Then there were places where we were instructed to store food in the trunk, like in Yellowstone.

The issue of food smells and clothing may be overblown. Yosemite is possibly the most notorious place for bears looking for food. They've learned how to break into cars and are adept at sneaking up on people looking for food. However, I've taken showers at Curry Village where it's mostly tent cabins with pretty much no protection against bears. The shampoo and body wash dispensers have pretty ordinary scented products. I've washed my hands in several national park and national forest bathrooms and the hand soap was nearly always scented. I've worn the same clothes that I ate in sleeping in my tent and had no problem. I have never heard of anyone being dragged out of a tent by a bear there (although it's happened in other places). Nearly everyone brushes their teeth with original minty toothpaste and that's never created an issue. I've gone backpacking where I brushed my teeth, where I spit and rinsed into the ground. Bears might smell it, investigate, and walk away where they realize it's not food. In my tent, the smell of human is going to dominate over the smell of food. They will avoid people if they're only looking to score food.

Certainly when it's unattended, put scented stuff where you're instructed to do so. Bear boxes are great, but if the local rules say in the trunk or just in your car - follow that.

Then there's the difference between American black bears and grizzly (brown bear subspecies) bears. American black bears are typically timid. Grizzly bears can be really nasty. That being said, almost any bear looking for food can be scared off. Predatory bears are another matter, and it would be useful to know the difference and figure out what to do.

Don't overthink the whole thing about scents. It's just not that big a deal. I wouldn't spray down a tent with air freshener, but there are literally millions of people camping where bears are and that have various smells on them. It's far more important when something is unattended.
 
The other caution I would offer is to stay far away from any bear with cubs. The momma bear's first inclination is to chase her cubs away to safety, but if you put yourself in a bad position she won't hesitate to attack you.

Not the American black bear. That's almost unheard of - even mama with cubs. I've personally been in that situation. They'll generally just take off and run when startled, but they can easily come back and sniff out where their cubs are (often up a tree).
 
Your fears are real to you but I'll agree with neverlandsky, in all my years of camping or hiking, we've only encountered a bear once. Never on a hiking trail. We were camping in Rio Grande Gorge in NM way back in the 70s before it was the thing to do and still pretty untamed. It was my parents, two brothers and myself in a large tent and one brother in a pup tent next to us. He woke up in the middle of the night because he heard something. Realized it was a bear so he made a lot of noise and scared it away. He then took lots of big rocks and put them all around the bottom of the big tent and moved his sleeping bag in there for the night but the next night was back in his pup tent. We actually left our cook stove outside and most of our food in the car but RGG isn't really full of lots of bears.

Be smart, don't leave food on the ground or near your tent where you are sleeping and stay on the trails, you should be fine. And have fun.

I've seen tons of bears, but then again I've spent time in places where they're common. One trip between Yosemite and Sequoia-Kings Canyon I saw a total of 7. There was never a time when I felt there was any danger. Once the bear seemed more curious than anything else. Another time I was in a crowded campground where a yearling was out there and then saw dozens of people staring at it, when it decided it wasn't worth it. I did see a kid whose backpack was hauled away by a bear. He said he left it for a few seconds where he was planning on putting it in a bear box. That was a pretty lousy way to start his backpacking trip. Not sure how they handled it since he was part of a big group. It sounds like all his gear was in there. I guess the others in his group could have shared food, but it's likely his clothes, sleeping bag, and other equipment were in there.
 
You can purchase coolers with a lock on them. Rattlesnakes, Raccoons, Mosquitoes, Ticks, & Poison Ivy are in abundance compared to Bears. Always stick to the trails. Be on the lookout for tracks and poop.
THIS Raccoons are horible as well as campground squirrels....all food should be stored in vehicle...put your food in a tent....go for a walk to the lake shore....squirrels will have raided and mess...you thought Willy Wonka squirrels where looking for bad nuts... squirrels have excellent radar for untended food. When you complete your trip...there will be stories about squirrels than any other accident.
 
an trip/campground visit list would help us with specific geography bear problems/solutions ....it could be a state to state issue...never seen a bear in Oregon or heard of problems....In idaho slept next to a barrel bear capture..never showed...been in the sawtooths..no bears...Idaho has a good bad bear behavior program....but squirrels...havoc on every trip. Lake Placid has a bear problem and very aggressive bear education program.
 
an trip/campground visit list would help us with specific geography bear problems/solutions ....it could be a state to state issue...never seen a bear in Oregon or heard of problems....In idaho slept next to a barrel bear capture..never showed...been in the sawtooths..no bears...Idaho has a good bad bear behavior program....but squirrels...havoc on every trip. Lake Placid has a bear problem and very aggressive bear education program.

Upstate NY has some pretty interesting problems with bears. The most notorious was a small female nicknamed Yellow-Yellow for the ear tags placed on it years ago. It was the master at breaking into a specific brand of bear canister and hung around the area around Marcy Dam. At least until it was legally shot by a recreational hunter. The company that made the BearVault made several redesigns to try and stop it. The redesigns worked at the Rae Lakes area of Kings Canyon National Park, but not with Yellow-Yellow.

Yellow-Yellow, roughly 20 years of age, of the Marcy Dam-Lake Colden corridor in the High Peaks Wilderness ascended to her heavenly den for an eternal hibernation after being slain by a hunter’s bullet on October 21, 2012 in the town of Jay (as reported by the Adirondack Daily Enterprise).​

The Rockies are a mixed bag. I was over in Washington state in the Olympic Peninsula, and was told that bears freak out around people because of all the hunting.

The last time I camped at Crater Lake, there were bear boxes at every campsite. I heard they were pretty new.
 
Bcla beat me to it, but I'll second his point about the advice being specific to the places you're visiting and the habits of the local bear populations in those places. You can make yourself crazy reading about the most extreme bear precautions from plenty of online sources, but in most places they won't be necessary. We camp in a part of Michigan that has a healthy bear populaton literally every summer and have for my whole life, since the property we camp on/visit has been in my family for three generations. I've never seen one up there. Lots of scat and they often beat us to the local blueberries when we try to go up to pick, but they're shy and steer clear of human noises and we're not a quiet family. Keeping food in the car, even in plain sight, isn't an issue there and we don't take any particular precautions beyond not leaving food or coolers in the open (and honestly, that's more due to racoons than bears - those things are clever little thieves!). But in other places, where bears have learned to associate tourists with an easy meal, they will open car doors or break windows to get at things that smell good. Yosemite bears are pretty notorious for car break-ins, though from what I understand the odds of it happening to any given car are still quite low. Your best bet is really to follow the advice put out by the specific parks and places that you're going to be visiting. They'll know far better than any of us would about what degree of precautions are necessary for the makeup and habits of the local bears.

As far as scents, the advice I got and have followed was to avoid "food associated" scents - mint, strawberry, sweet florals - and that's served us well enough on our travels.

We've seen a few bears, only one at somewhat close range (in a huckleberry patch near a hiking trail at Glacier NP), and heard one in the night at one of our campsites, drawn no doubt by the obviously careless group of young folks at a nearby site who were drinking and who must not have bothered to put their food in the bear box before calling it a night from the complaining we overheard the next morning. We camped at close to a dozen national parks/park service sites on our cross country trip a couple of years back and none of them had local "bear aware" advice even close to the precautions that are recommended at Yosemite. There was only one place - I think it was a BLM campground on the Shoshone River, outside of the east entrance of Yellowstone NP - where the posted guidelines encouraged us to transfer our food from our van to the bear box. That campground was also the only one we encountered with a no-soft-sides rule: hard-side campers and travel vans only, no tents, pop-ups, or anything with canvas-sided sections. A few other places used that as a test for food storage, saying it was okay to keep food in a car or van or hard-side RV but not in a pop-up camper or a van with the canvas loft like some of the nicer travel vans have.
 
Upstate NY has some pretty interesting problems with bears. The most notorious was a small female nicknamed Yellow-Yellow for the ear tags placed on it years ago. It was the master at breaking into a specific brand of bear canister and hung around the area around Marcy Dam.

The last time I camped at Crater Lake, there were bear boxes at every campsite. I heard they were pretty new.
I want to think that we were at Marcy dam,,,,if it is near a major trailhead....end of june. I had a rookie backpacker with me....so his fear of bears was off the scale..... My first time in the area and it was horrible...not like oregon/idaho at all when it comes to trails....we packed out early....squirrels.....down right horrible, nothing you could do and rookie fear of bear couldn't keep food outside.....my only plus is that I put the trail on Mt. Marcy off my bucket list...did not make it to the top....weather front came in on us

signs everywhere....they don't hike past july I think....
 
Not sure where you plan to camp but some of the National Parks where Bears are most active-Yellowstone, Grand Teton and Glacier at least, allow hard sided campers only-so you may want to read up on camping in specific locations-this also applies to Forest Service campgrounds out side of National Parks where there is alot of bear activity ( the campground Colleen27 refers to above is one of several with proximity to Yellowstone on the North Fork of the Shoshone River where the Forest Service, not BLM, does not allow tent or soft sided pull behind campers)
 

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