barack obama just signed bill to...

[chisnpeke]

Actually, I'd rather no one die at all. Having a dictator kill innocent people is no good, but killing innocent people with our hands is no good either.

It really is just bad either way. I don't know what the answer is to all of these problems.

 

[Fatphil32]

Thousands of Iraqis have been killed by us. I don't know if Saddam Hussein would have killed the same amount but it doesn't really matter. Those people are dead. I'm sure part of it has to do with these insurgants that came into Iraq and now it's some sort of breeding ground for terrorists. It's a mess. I'm not sure what the answer should have been. I don't think Bush should have pushed to go into Iraq so quickly. I will say the world is better without Saddam but the country of Iraq is a big mess and I hope it can recover.

And it's correct that Clinton has blame in this. As he does in the whole economic mess (that actually goes back to the Carter years). The fact is it all doesn't really matter. Pointing fingers isn't going to help what is happening now. Everyone dropped the ball.

Actually, we pushed into Iraq to late. The common age for most of the terrorist carrying out current plots are in the mid-thirties. Most of them were teenagers when the first attack on the WTC was ignited. Had we had taken action then, the outcome may have been different.

And definitely correct... Every president has a fault in something that's gone wrong. Heck, the constitution has a fault in our current society, but that's a whole different story.

 

[KidGoofy]

The only reason the United States should go to war is to protect the vital interests of the country. Vietnam was not protecting our vital interests and I'm not sure if Iraq is either. I fear about just letting it all go because it could just become another terrorist infested breeding ground.

Vietnam was worse than this because they weren't even a threat...but Iraq is.

They didn't just wreck our homes.. They wrecked one of the most densly populated parts of the world, destroyed two buildings that are a center for foreign trade, and shut down the world's biggest and busiest economy market in Wall Street for a number of days, along with killing over a thousand people. Then add in everything that Hussein did and it was plenty of reason to do what was needed to be done. It wasn't an "eye for an eye." We didn't go over there with the intent of killing innocent people; anything but doing that would have been the preferred choice.

The war's been going on over there since the dawn of time.. Hint, thousands of years. We didn't start the war. There's been a civil war going on there for longer than we can look into our history books and read about. You can't just go over there and expect them to see everything our way and understand what they did was wrong and move on.. It's going to take unwanted, forceful action. Let reality hit for a second... There is no solution.

And you don't really get that choice.

It was more than 2 buildings.

 

[chisnpeke]

How can they ignore us? Ever hear the saying "When America coughs, the world gets a cold"?. We are EVERYWHERE. Just look back to the last election - people all over the world were supporting presidential candidates. Heck, there was even a website (I can't remember the url) that was a fake vote involving anyone in the world, who would they vote for in our election? I agree that they should not be allowed to vote because that privilege is for citizens and citizens only. BUT, these people are looking from the outside in, and sometimes certain situations call for someone from the outside looking in. Do I think they should influence who we vote for? No. But I do think it should give us something to chew on.

My two cents.

Please don't think of me as one of "those people" who think the US is shot to hell because of Bush, because I'm not. I just don't think there was a reason for at least part of the war.

I understand that the world's view should have some sort of influence on us but ultimately I would never use that as something to base my vote on which I feel a lot of people do because they are so afraid of what the world will think of us if we vote so and so into office.

I definitely don't think of you as one of those people who blame Bush for everything. You're too good for that. It's just that in this country there are those who do and it just makes me very sad. I think they just want one person to blame all of the problems in the world on and Bush is there and he got it.

 

[Fatphil32]

It was more than 2 buildings.

Well, the other one's weren't really as major as far as world affairs go.

 

[I Am What I Am]

Well, the other one's weren't really as major as far as world affairs go.

One was the Pentagon.

 

[chisnpeke]

Heck, the constitution has a fault in our current society, but that's a whole different story.

Those who think the constitution should stay the way it is tend to be Republicans. The Democrats think the constitution is a living document and should be altered as time goes on.

I really don't even know how I feel about it.

 

[imabrat]

But we are saving lives...if we didn't go in there would be more deaths than there are now. And a house is a physical possesion and a life is better than a home.

And you are making little sense now

I wasn't responding to you Tom, I was responding to Fatphil32's (John?) post.
Yes, we may be saving lives, but we're also losing some.

The only reason the United States should go to war is to protect the vital interests of the country. Vietnam was not protecting our vital interests and I'm not sure if Iraq is either. I fear about just letting it all go because it could just become another terrorist infested breeding ground.

They didn't just wreck our homes.. They wrecked one of the most densly populated parts of the world, destroyed two buildings that are a center for foreign trade, and shut down the world's biggest and busiest economy market in Wall Street for a number of days, along with killing over a thousand people. Then add in everything that Hussein did and it was plenty of reason to do what was needed to be done. It wasn't an "eye for an eye." We didn't go over there with the intent of killing innocent people; anything but doing that would have been the preferred choice.

The war's been going on over there since the dawn of time.. Hint, thousands of years. We didn't start the war. There's been a civil war going on there for longer than we can look into our history books and read about. You can't just go over there and expect them to see everything our way and understand what they did was wrong and move on.. It's going to take unwanted, forceful action. Let reality hit for a second... There is no solution.

And you don't really get that choice.

I wasn't talking about a home specifically, as in a cement foundation topped with brick/wood/whatever that people live in. I'm talking "a home", someone's family. You know when someone involved in a divorce says "you wrecked me home"?, that's what I meant. Believe me I know they killed thousands of people. Sadly, many of my friends lost family because the commute to the city. Some of my classmates parents were the EMTs responding, and my BFFs dad was across the street, literally.

We didn't intentionally kill anyone innocent, but we knew it would happen anyway. I just wish there was some way we could've solved this, captured Saddam, whatever, without the 7 years of war.

Your last paragraph is why I think we had no business in the war. We are, what?, tens of thousands of miles away and WE think we can solve a war that's been going on since the dawn of time? Unfortunately, no matter how much influence you have in the war, you have no impact in that great a war.

 

[chisnpeke]

I wasn't responding to you Tom, I was responding to Fatphil32's (John?) post.
Yes, we may be saving lives, but we're also losing some.







I wasn't talking about a home specifically, as in a cement foundation topped with brick/wood/whatever that people live in. I'm talking "a home", someone's family. You know when someone involved in a divorce says "you wrecked me home"?, that's what I meant. Believe me I know they killed thousands of people. Sadly, many of my friends lost family because the commute to the city. Some of my classmates parents were the EMTs responding, and my BFFs dad was across the street, literally.

We didn't intentionally kill anyone innocent, but we knew it would happen anyway. I just wish there was some way we could've solved this, captured Saddam, whatever, without the 7 years of war.

Your last paragraph is why I think we had no business in the war. We are, what?, tens of thousands of miles away and WE think we can solve a war that's been going on since the dawn of time? Unfortunately, no matter how much influence you have in the war, you have no impact in that great a war.

That's a very good point. Those people have been fighting forever and they aren't ever going to stop. There is no talking sense into them because they are just too out there to think sensibly.

I think the Bible says something about the end of the world starting over there...right where the world was supposed to have started. It'll probably turn out to be true.

 

[Fatphil32]

One was the Pentagon.

Drew a brain-fart there.. Was thinking strictly about NYC.

Those who think the constitution should stay the way it is tend to be Republicans. The Democrats think the constitution is a living document and should be altered as time goes on.

There's no question there are flaws, but doesn't every system have its flaws? There's no such thing as perfect and I'm satisfied with a system that's worked for over 300 years.

And it's flawed because they had just got out of the rule of King George the whatever number and their view is different than ours today on some subjects.

I wasn't responding to you Tom, I was responding to Fatphil32's (John?) post.
Yes, we may be saving lives, but we're also losing some.



I wasn't talking about a home specifically, as in a cement foundation topped with brick/wood/whatever that people live in. I'm talking "a home", someone's family. You know when someone involved in a divorce says "you wrecked me home"?, that's what I meant. Believe me I know they killed thousands of people. Sadly, many of my friends lost family because the commute to the city. Some of my classmates parents were the EMTs responding, and my BFFs dad was across the street, literally.

We didn't intentionally kill anyone innocent, but we knew it would happen anyway. I just wish there was some way we could've solved this, captured Saddam, whatever, without the 7 years of war.

Your last paragraph is why I think we had no business in the war. We are, what?, tens of thousands of miles away and WE think we can solve a war that's been going on since the dawn of time? Unfortunately, no matter how much influence you have in the war, you have no impact in that great a war.

You're going to have death, no matter what. It's a unavoidable evil.

Family's were much worse off under the rule of Hussein. I don't know if you have trouble understanding that or just don't agree with it. But, it's almost a proven fact... And we didn't initially go into Iraq with that intent until we started receiving threats. We've technically been in Iraq since 2005 and we caught him in 2006. The other year and this year are being spent of stabilizing what they've worked to achieve in democracy. There's no right answer to the problem.

We're not going to stop the war, but merely protect what we have and try to help the others protect what they can have - freedom of religion, speech, ect. Think.. what if others see what's being done over there [the non-media side; good stuff] and follow lead.. I know it's an extremely far-fetched thought, but at least we're attempting something instead of sitting back and watching them fight to the bitter end.

 

[Fatphil32]

That's a very good point. Those people have been fighting forever and they aren't ever going to stop. There is no talking sense into them because they are just too out there to think sensibly.

I think the Bible says something about the end of the world starting over there...right where the world was supposed to have started. It'll probably turn out to be true.

It has turned out to be true.. Date back to the Ottomans in the lower part of Europe/middle east. That can be lead back to the renaissance period. That can go back to the ____ time. That can lead back to the Greek, which back to the Romans. It's been going on FOREVER. Once again.. there's no solution.

 

[chisnpeke]

Well, the other one's weren't really as major as far as world affairs go.

That's true. The Pentagon and the WTC are and were major parts of this country. The terrorists tried to ruin both of them.

 

[Fatphil32]

That's true. The Pentagon and the WTC are and were major parts of this country. The terrorists tried to ruin both of them.

Try world...

 

[chisnpeke]

It has turned out to be true.. Date back to the Ottomans in the lower part of Europe/middle east. That can be lead back to the renaissance period. That can go back to the ____ time. That can lead back to the Greek, which back to the Romans. It's been going on FOREVER. Once again.. there's no solution.

Yea and the sad thing is the people living in this country from that part of the world get enraged when things happen. I have a friend whose dad is from Lebanon. When one of their former leaders was killed it upset him so much and made him angry which I completely understand. I'm sure it's very disheartening to have your home torn to pieces for conflicts that could possibly be just talked out.

 

[chisnpeke]

Try world...

You're correct.

 

[imabrat]

You're going to have death, no matter what. It's a unavoidable evil.

Family's were much worse off under the rule of Hussein. I don't know if you have trouble understanding that or just don't agree with it. But, it's almost a proven fact... And we didn't initially go into Iraq with that intent until we started receiving threats. We've technically been in Iraq since 2005 and we caught him in 2006. The other year and this year are being spent of stabilizing what they've worked to achieve in democracy. There's no right answer to the problem.

We're not going to stop the war, but merely protect what we have and try to help the others protect what they can have - freedom of religion, speech, ect. Think.. what if others see what's being done over there [the non-media side; good stuff] and follow lead.. I know it's an extremely far-fetched thought, but at least we're attempting something instead of sitting back and watching them fight to the bitter end.

I understand that families were much worse under rule of Hussein, I'm not the imbecile you may think I am.

You're right, there is no correct answer. That's what upsets me the most.

 

[Fatphil32]

I understand that families were much worse under rule of Hussein, I'm not the imbecile you may think I am.

You're right, there is no correct answer. That's what upsets me the most.

It's the most unfortunate part of it all.

 

[angelfire]

i have to say that was stupid for closing it we have no room here for them plus people here freeked out when they heard that happen they were all like "OMG they shouldn't have done than now i'll never be safe" stupid if you ask me but thats just one out of a million opinions

 

[Axel]

Some of the post in this thread have to be some jokes... We invaded Iraq for no reason? Does anyone not have any knowledge of what has been going on there for hundreds of years... recently it struck the WTC in the 1990's and then again in 2001. Do you guys realize what has been changed over there? Does anyone not think for one moment that some good actually did come out of the war. I'm all for Ron Paul, who wants to bring all troops home, but the war actually did good. They're now becoming a more stabilized country and at least the civil war they've been fighting for hundreds of years has taken a yield. Seriously... Bush may have been a ****ty president, but all presidents do good and he's brought some to us and Iraq. Funny thing is, we all want to criticize him for going over there, but ya know what? We've been safe now for over seven years without a terrorist attack. The men in the Army are willing to risk their lives for us. No one takes a moment to realize that. Every time I see someone in the Army, I thank them for their service. At least Iraq isn't as corrupted as some of our thoughts.

[/end_of_rant]

We didn't like their government? Their government was run by a hell-bound dictator who:

1. Has killed thousands of innocent people
2. Was a co-conspirator in the plot against the WTC in the '90's
3. Had an abundance of nuclear developments that could have started the third world war

That's plenty of reason to go into his country and other-throw him. Other countries hate us for taking it into our own hands, because no one else in the Middle East has the power we do to totally over-throw someone like that. It had to be done. Would you like to see Sadam Hussein running around and continuing to plot against us while killing more people? Yeah, me neither. And if Obama was a dictator and innocent people I knew were being killed by him, then I'd welcome the Americans with open arms. There's a reason for this picture:

And yes, I believe it was our right to decide what went on over there. When the government that was ran over there was posing a threat to national security, then it's completely our business.

And that's their opinions that our noses didn't belong in Iraq. If I'm the president and I feel our national security is threatened, then I'll put my nose in and around everywhere to make sure the people of my country are safe.

Maybe I'm painfully wrong as well. Maybe Loose Change 9/11 [great movie with a theory on 9/11 that's pretty painful to think about] is completely right and we're totally wrong on who actually sprung the attacks...

They were in the gutter already...if our government was as bad as theirs then yes I would want help from other countries. We kicked out a TERRIBLE RULER who killed a huge amount of people. And if you ever talk to any soldiers who came back from there, they all say that the people thank them, and I know plenty of them.

What you seem to not know is that WE ARE THE REASON SADDAM HUSSEIN WAS IN POWER IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!

I'm dead serious. The U.S. orchestrated a coup of Iraq during the cold war and put a dictator that was crazy enough to fight the communists for us. And then he just stayed in power. It's our fault. The entire situation is our fault. Al Quaida is a left-over from the Iran-Contra affair- another Cold War situation.

I'm serious go look it up. We are at fault. We made the mistakes. And we should have to suffer the consequences.

I'm putting all the blame here on Cold War era presidents like JFK, LBJ, Nixon, Reagan, Carter, Bush Sr., Ford. That's where I'm laying the blame.

They had every right to act out against us. Because we are the root cause of their suffering. Neither Al Quaida nor Saddam would have been in power if we hadn't intervened because we were scared of a non-existent threat.

 

[Fatphil32]

What you seem to not know is that WE ARE THE REASON SADDAM HUSSEIN WAS IN POWER IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!

I'm dead serious. The U.S. orchestrated a coup of Iraq during the cold war and put a dictator that was crazy enough to fight the communists for us. And then he just stayed in power. It's our fault. The entire situation is our fault. Al Quaida is a left-over from the Iran-Contra affair- another Cold War situation.

I'm serious go look it up. We are at fault. We made the mistakes. And we should have to suffer the consequences.

I'm putting all the blame here on Cold War era presidents like JFK, LBJ, Nixon, Reagan, Carter, Bush Sr., Ford. That's where I'm laying the blame.

They had every right to act out against us. Because we are the root cause of their suffering. Neither Al Quaida nor Saddam would have been in power if we hadn't intervened because we were scared of a non-existent threat.

Non-existent threat?
I really don't know how to respond to someone who feels they were a non-existent threat...

And we didn't "put" him in charge. At that time, he was not in charge, but Iraq had already attacked a defenseless country in hopes to expend their rule and attempt to take over the Persian Gulf. Just because Hussein himself wasn't in power at that time doesn't mean their government wasn't still corrupted back then. Say we don't go over, they invade Kuwait, ect. where do we end up? Still with a crazy, dictator leader over there doing what they do best.